Christofias view on negotiation

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 10:09

We will accept neither strict timeframes, nor arbitration, he concluded.



Not a lot of point then.



Troodo.

sporty


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 685

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 10:21

if you fail to plan you plan to fail,leaving everything open ended without setting goals/targets is a cop out in my view.

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 11:17

From todays Cyprus Mail - is Christofias just Papadopoulos in one of those plastic masks ?

Flat rejection for Turkey’s summit proposal

By Stefanos Evripidou

TURKEY’S PROPOSAL for a quintet summit on the Cyprus problem involving the two communities and three guarantor states was flatly rejected yesterday by the Cypriot leadership.

President Demetris Christofias described Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s proposal as nothing new, noting he had already rejected the idea directly when Erdogan raised it at their last chance meeting.

According to reports, Erdogan made a number of proposals to the UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on the Cyprus issue, referring to the intensification of the talks process, the personal intervention of the SG in the talks in New York and a quintet summit between the Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots, Greece, Turkey and Britain.



Continued

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 11:19

See the whole article here



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 11:39

msge 4 MVP



There is a good article on this in the 'opinion' section of the Cyprus mail



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=48880&cat_id=1



It would seem that Christofias is playing in to Turkeys hands. He has missed an opportunity to call Turkeys bluff. He has on numerous occassions accused Turkey of blocking the negotiations, however, by rejecting this meeting he is looking like the blocker not Turkey.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 11:50

"A few months ago Erdogan made a similar proposal for a four-party meeting but again it was rejected by Christofias on the grounds that this would upgrade the status of Talat, who was not the leader of recognised state"



Why is he having discussions with Talat then?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 11:51

Clearly Christofias has 'shot himself in the foot' with this one.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 12:06

msge 7 Bill



He has got himself in a bit of a mess. Talat is too lowly and Turkey to wretched to negoatiate with. Who does he want to barter with? There is nobody left and he doesn't want any outside help.

Of course, he doesn't want to negotiate with anybody. 'The whole of Cyprus is Greek Cypriot, and why are we having negotiations in the first place. We should be dictating all the terms'.



Sounds like he is frustrated in not getting the agreements he is seeking. Doesn't help when he has his coalition partners DIKO breathing down his back.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 12:09

Quite correct Mark.



Surely these so called 'talks' can't go on much longer - what's the point?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 12:11

Dear Mark

re 8



>>Doesn't help when he has his coalition partners DIKO breathing down his back.<<

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 12:14

What I was trying to say .. clicked too soon, was that you probably had the key.. AGAIN. it is more about keeping in power than ensuring a solution



We need a Cypriot 'David Trimble' - a brave man who sacrificed his Political ambitions for the greater good of the silent majority..



The CY Mail article is spot on.. he is 'losing' it :(

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 12:21

Agreed



For once Turkey and the TRNC seem to be comprehensively winning the media war.



Chrisofias "by voting against a solution we are voting for a solution" has shown himself to be an empty vessel, with no more ability or desire for a settlement than his predessesor.



I think he has talked himself into a corner with no way out, and I'm sure the rest of the international community realise this, and will be getting ready for plan B



The real question now, is will the EU allow the TRNC to be admitted into the community as an autonomous region of Cyprus, or will they risk it being annexed with Turkey - now the real game of poker starts



Mark

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 12:23

msge 9 Bill



It really does not look like an agreement is possible, there seems little convergence on the issues that matter. At the same time the UBP is pressurising Talat wanting the TRNC to make a go of it themselves and DIKO are hassling Christofias ensuring he does not concede any ground to the TC's.

However, there is so much pressure to reach an agreement, so I think they will cobble and knit something together. Whether it makes it past their respective populas is one thing and whether any agreement is sustainable is another.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 12:47

msge 11



Yes 6m, the ROC does need a self sacrificing politician to grasp the nettle. Someone who is prepared to drop down when the job is done.



It aso needs people on the street to rise up and demand a solution, thus giving credence and power to the negotiators. So far, this hasn't happened, although there is this Limassol group trying to create a peoples movement. Perhaps uniting is not really a firmly held dream for enough people on both sides of the island.



My view has always been that their should be two separate states and the two sides should move freely and encouraged to trade with each other. Over time, and if the will is their the people will unite naturally.

Of course, the sticking block as ever is the property issue. Quite understandabley people want to secure their futures and property provides a useful nest egg.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 13:00

Well I have never thought that a two state soln would/should fly



BUT.



The lunatic intransigence by the recent GC leaders is playing into TR's hands..



They should have realised that Annan - the Annan that was on the table - before Liealotopoulos walked out, left the UN to fill in in blanks - and then 'cry'... was the BEST deal they were going to get :(



I had hope for Christofios - even despite his ambitions to keep in power [coalition with DIKO] -meant telling AKEL members ' our no [ to Annan] means yes' ...





It seems his 'weakness' is exposed..

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 13:06

msge 15



"The lunatic intransigence by the recent GC leaders is playing into TR's hands"



Perhaps a desire for retribution and justice gets the better of their sound judgement

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 14:24

MM, I agree 100%



In a few years time the GCs will lament the day they turned down the AP.



If they had had voted YES, today



1. They would have Varosh

2. They would have Guzelyurt

3. Vitually all the Turkish troops would have gone



instead, what have they got

















Mark

BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 17:12

msg 15



I NEVER thought i would see the day MM would concede the possibility of the 2 state solution being the final outcome.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 17:44

Chritofias is all me,me,me, and as made a complete arse of himself by rejecting the offer.I think he is worried at being confronted by other nations around the negotiating table.Time for the talks to end now and settle for two states.Feel sorry for Talat though as Christofias obviously sees him as not worthy,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 17:59

msge 19



Hi Paul



I am not so sure the negotiations are finshed just yet. Remember that just over 60% of TC's in the recent poll you shared with us thought their would be a solution.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 18:15

paul



the gc,s have never seen the tc,s as worthy ,this is how we got here ,remember.

however they are in for a shock ,it will be hard to gain any land back from us now.





mark



the negotiations never even began ,never mind finished .

let,s be realistic ,how many new countries have been formed in the last 35 years,just borders ehhhh.



long live the kktc



musin

Suffolk



Joined: 31/08/2008
Posts: 222

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 19:40

The talks have been going on now for some sixteen months (approximately) and so far nothing has come of it, as far as the public know. The problem is neither of the two presidents can walk away from the table because if either one does so - the other will be seen as the victor - and reap the rewards. Personally I cannot see Mr Talat walking.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 20:24

re 18

BB



I always thought that ANY GC leader - other than 'Liealotopoulos' - would exercise common sense... I hoped that Christofias and Talat could do business...



I FAVOUR a single state - federated to give TCs autonomy, but the sticking point will always be property..

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 20:36

Suffolk,

Talat will walk in Apri 2010,

Paul.

sporty


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 685

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 21:21

Time is running out,if they cant get it done and dusted by april,imo there will be no solution!Eroglu will probably get in and if what we read is correct he wants to see the continuation of 2 separate states,As for Christophias who quickly rejects the offer from Turkey of a 5 way summit on the cyp prob,then in the same breath critisizes Turkey for not doing enough is beyond belief.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 21:39

newlad

Message 24:

Talat will walk before then, I will place money on it.

AJ

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 22:07

Not another fiver Jack,

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 22:12

I think Talat will run not walk and who can blame him having to try and negotiate with one hand tied behind his back.His replacement will be a more hard liner who is opposed to the E.U.

Paul.

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
19/11/2009 23:20

ive said it it till im blue in the face " no agreement and partition" like i said on another thread if all they can agree on after sixteen months is road signs in greek and turkish( in that order im told!) then the end game is neigh.

everytime we here they are discussing the main issues like property , turkish settlers and land to be given back we read that they beg to differ and are miles appart so they are talking instead about less important things.

this whole debacle is wasting time and money, better to just call it a day and move to plan B

eastendjoker


Joined: 24/04/2008
Posts: 166

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 00:41

if they cant acheive anything more than has already been said on hear why not some sort of agreement on direct flights to north Cyprus in exchange for greek Cypriot use of N.Cyprus airspace.

PMF68


Joined: 13/07/2008
Posts: 130

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 06:52

talks will never finish in a positive manner too many differneces

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 07:15

As far as I understand, any agreement will have to be put to a referendum to the TC voters. How many, I wonder, will want a bi-communal, bi-zonal agreement? I for one would not vote for that. The time has finally come for 2 seperate states.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 13:19

GC frontmen have not been happy to welcome outside intervention, however, those who are really responsible for the success of the negotiations, the governmental aids and working parties seem more receptive to outside help.



NI and Germany offering its expertise on matters of reunification costs is useful. They will also need property and terrtory experts involved. This is a big difference between NI, Germany and Cyprus.



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=48920&cat_id=1

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 13:29

The gcs still think that they are big players when in fact they are not,

Paul.

pjnxi



Joined: 12/02/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 13:34

Message 31 . Spot on pjnxi

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 13:35

As I see it, TRNC is 'in a cleft stick'!

sporty


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 685

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 13:40

mesg.33, i take it this conference by german and irish officials that happened yesterday was organised by the south,held in the south and was attended by officials past and present from the south??Any TC officials past or present there? was any of them invited?would be interesting to find out if they were.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 13:41

msge 36



could you say a little more about what you mean by cleft stick

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/11/2009 13:41

msge 37



very good point sporty