Ankara (political)

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
17/05/2008 15:46

Hi All,

I have been reading lately that there are big political problems in Ankara.Would ibe right in thinking that these problems could have a massive bearing on the up and coming "cyprus problem" talks.



Who are the current ruling party in Turkey is it the akp with Erdogan as their leader.Wasnt this party only recently elected with a healthy maoriity.I would be grateful if anyone on the forum would enlighten me as to wether the problems in turkkey would have a bearing on the talks,

Warm Regards,

Paul.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
17/05/2008 16:47

hi paul

yes the current party is the ak party with tayip erdogan as the prime minister and abdulah gul as the president

the problems at the moment is the the turkish courts are trying to prosecute the ak party in trying to turn turkey which is a secular country into a muslim run country which in my eyes are wrong, they are not trying to do this they are trying to give each person the right to practice what they want too in other words human rights which is right even thou the ak party is a pro islamic party they are a very modern party they are not trying to force turkey in to a islamic state and with the ak party being in power turkey has been the most stable it has been in many years and changing many laws that gives their people freedom of speach



the problems in turkey has not really any relavance to the cyprus situation, the only thing which has any relavance to the situation is that turkey refuses to reconise south cyprus as a country and ban any south cypriots in visting turkey aswell as any south cypriot boats or planes coming over turkish air space and waters aswell as them docking and landing in turkish ports, this in turn has a adverse affect on turkey joining the e.u because south cyprus being in the e.u has the right to veto turkerys assertion into the e.u which is backed by a few countries that hold a grudge against tukey like france, austria and a few other countries

only recently the french minister for foreign e.u affairs came out with a scathing attack on talat and the turkish government accusing talat being dicatated to by turkey which is not true, this minister refuses to meet talat in his presidential office in fear that he will show that he and france accepts and reconises north cyprus as a country he basically is saying he wants to meet talat in a back street cafe in lefkosa in turn talat commented by saying that he will not meet him as if he is having a secret meeting with a lover.

have you heard of such a thing a politcian meeting a presient in a cafe!!!

its like condlisa rice meeting gordon brown in agreasy spoon back street cafe in the middle of notting hill can you imagine that!!!!

regards

ukturk

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/05/2008 12:58

Hi Erkan,

Thanks for clearing that one up mate.Do the French see Talat as a puppet for turkey then, it certainly seems that way sureley Talat is his on man with his own policies.Isnt Tayip Erdogan regarded as one of the most popular politicians of his generation.The french do seem to carry a lot of clout in the eu and i think the other member states would listen to them when it comes to the talks and could have a bearing on the outcome (just my opinion).



As for meeting in a cafe i have never heard anytthing so ludicrous.It certainly is not the way forward.Cant imagine the same thing happening with the greek leader can you,

Keep busy mate,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/05/2008 16:33

you might find this interesting Paul. Would value your comments Erkan



http://ihsandagi.blogspot.com/2008/05/why-there-will-be-no-solution-in-cyprus.html

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/05/2008 16:40

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080516/FOREIGN/798521243/1003

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
20/05/2008 20:36

Hi Mark,hope you are well,

Two very interesting articles,with both pieces saying that the talks will fade and possibly die out.I think one of the biggest stumbling blocks will be that there are 35,000 turkish troops in the so called "occupied north" thats nearly as many as a white hart lane capacity.What would happen to the trrops if there were some agreement between north and south would they be re-deployed elsewhere or given civvie jobs.That is alot of work to find for alot of people.



One of the problems i see at the moment is the time frame that has been set.The first proper talks were on March 21st and it was agreed that the two leaders would meet again on June the 21st.Surely three months is such a tight time frame.I do honestly believe though that the greeks are stalling just to be awkward.I am trying to keep an open mind on the matter but find it very difficult not to lean towards the north the more i read about the islands past.



I do think though that the two leaders realise that it is going to be very difficult for the talks to reach fruition and that is the reason why they are getting together one on one on the 23rd of May to try and see if they can iron out any of the major issues before they meet in earnest on the 21st of June.



I do hope that they do get together in June though and the talks are not stalled,otherwise i think that could see the end,and things will just fall flat like they did in 2004.I honestly think that the e.u. should have more clout in desicision making instead of just being there for advisory purposes.



My gut feeling though tells me that there are to many sensitive issues to debate and sort out to reach an agreement and they will still be going over the same old ground in six months time.Maybe we should forget about bi-zonal bi-communal and talk independence to some degree for the north,remove embargoes allow them free trading,export etc and allow direct flighs and shipping into the wonderful island.



Sorry to turn it into war and peace but when your on one your on one,

enjoy your evening,

Paul.

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
20/05/2008 21:04

Well said Newlad

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
20/05/2008 21:47

Tats,

Are you still in n.c. early June,

Paul.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
20/05/2008 21:59

I am inclined to think believe these talks are doomed, but I think it may turn out to be a good thing for the TRNC, because it may actually make everybody relise there will no chance of a solution for the forseeable future. Which inturn may kick start the moves towards international recognition, as currently some governments may have been waiting to see outcome of talks, expecting positive result and consequent recognition and EU membership, and nato association, but should they fail some world players may ease embargo, so as to maintain good relationship with Turkey and keep door open for military facilities and option to be involded in joint exploration of regions potential oil fields.

Furthermore it could improve the construction industry and consequently the economy, by virtue of the fact the current limbo regarding property compensation and title issues could fade away, because opinion could move to the stance that as there would be little chance of reuniting, therefore little chance of ever paying compensation or losing property.

Interesting times, for an interested party.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
21/05/2008 00:33

Nice one Paul,thats what i was trying to get accross,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
21/05/2008 14:27

Fridays meeting will be an important one



Turkish Cypriots play down ‘virgin birth’ issue

By Simon Bahceli



THE TURKISH Cypriot side said yesterday a settlement to the Cyprus problem did not necessarily mean the creation of a new state, and invited Greek Cypriot President Demetris Christofias to come up with “an alternative model”.



“A virgin birth [creation of a new state] was put forward by a third party during negotiations on the Annan plan as a method for bringing the two existing states together,” Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat’s spokesman Hasan Ercakica told the Cyprus Mail yesterday. “If Christofias has a better method, then we are ready to listen to him,” he added.



Ercakica’s comments come just three days before a meeting between Christofias and Talat aimed at reviewing progress in meetings between working groups and committees aimed at laying the ground for fully-fledged negotiations due to start on June 21. There are reports that the Greek Cypriot side may ask for a delay in the start of talks, citing of a lack of progress in pre-negotiation discussions.



Others believe, however, that the possibility of a delay may stem from Christofias’ fears that Turkish Cypriot demands for the creation of a new state, and insistence that Turkey retain the right to intervene militarily if it feels the Turkish Cypriot minority is threatened could lead upcoming talks to failure.



But Ercakica yesterday sought to play down the need for a delay by denying that the Turkish Cypriot side had insisted on a two-state solution, or a the creation of a brand new umbrella state.



“When we or Turkish officials talk of two states and two peoples, we are simply talking about the reality as it is now,” he said, but added: “What we do insist on is political equality, which means that we have active participation and equal say in all major state decisions such as foreign policy and taxation.”



Ercakica could not, however, deny that the preservation of the Turkish military guarantee was in fact a red line for the Turkish Cypriot side, but said, “If Christofias doesn’t believe that security is a real concern of the Turkish Cypriot people, I invite him here to carry out a survey and find out for himself”.



He added that if Turkish Cypriots ever felt they no longer needed Turkey’s protection, they would themselves ask the military to leave.



“The idea that the Turkish army is here against the wishes of the Turkish Cypriot people is ridiculous. If Christofias doesn’t believe me, he can come and ask the people himself,” he said.



Ercakica also addressed Christofias’ concerns, expressed in recent weeks, that ongoing disputes between the military and Turkey’s civilian government could jeopardise negotiations for a settlement by saying, “We are working with all interested parties in Turkey to make sure that the situation there affects us as little as possible. Our aim is to gain us much support as we can for a settlement”.



Looking ahead to Friday’s meeting between Christofias and Talat, Ercakica said he saw no reason why fully-fledged negotiations should not start as planned on June 21.



“When we agreed on March 21 to start negotiations in three months, there was no suggestion that the start was conditional upon progress among the working groups,” he said, adding: “As far as we were concerned, the working groups were not set up to negotiate but to brainstorm, exchange ideas and gather a body of work to place before the leaders to help them in their job. Mr Christofias is now talking about a lack of progress, but the fact that we have identified a number of problems is in itself progress. Rather than establishing fixed positions before we start [fully-fledged negotiations] is not practical. But establishing what the problems may be, and then looking for pragmatic ways around them is.”

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
21/05/2008 15:08

hi guys

the problem is for the north cyprus side there is only one way forward with a vigin birth state, thats why they have invited the south to come up with a better option which they wont because they are sticking to their guns with going ahead with a plan which is over 40years old!!!!

but once again the turks not to be seen as the party poppers are willing to listen to any offers, with these talks that are aimed very soon nothing will come of it even talat saying on state tv that he does not see a solution if all parties agree till possiably to the end of the year

all the greeks are worried about is sending the turkish settlers back to turkey which i must say words cant describe this total human rights violation can you imagine one day the british government saying sorry to all the africans-jamicans-indians-turks-greeks and all the other foreign settlers you have to pack your bags and f-off back to you own country their would be outrage from the international community

the same goes for the army in cyprus at least 70% are from the mainland so if they send them back north cyprus will be left with a skeleton army then what do you think the south side army will open their arms to the norths army and they can work side by side i very much doubt it!!!!!

and another thing any turkish mainlander doing their service in north cyprus does not recieve a north cyprus kimlik (citizenship) and if they want to visit north cyprus they only get a 3month visa

so please tell me why do the south offer any greek mainlanders doing their army service in the south automatically gets citizenship and greeks wanting to holiday they dont need a visa is this double standards or what!!!! on one hand they say they dont wont turkish mainlanders migratting in to the north but they are allowing greek mainlanders to migratte to the south does not make sense does it!!!!!

and if the president of the south thinks for one min that the north dont wont the army there he must have lost the plot!!!!! without the turkish army there the northern cypriots would be dead by now and he has got to remember he and his family aswell as many southern cypriots would be dead also because they followed markrios and they were getting killed by the samsun followers so he should be thankfull to the turkish army for those are the ones who finally bought peace to cyprus

warm regards to you all

ukturk

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
21/05/2008 15:21

Newlad (Paul) sent you an e-mail

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
21/05/2008 17:42

Cheers Tats will look when i get home,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
21/05/2008 17:59

very interesting and informative your comments Erkan.



Seems to me the whole issue is about land and power (otherwise there probably wouldn't be any negotiations) but is being bundled up and sold to people as being financially advantageous.



I saw on a forum site that the GC military have moved some (not sure if it is a significant amount) of their weaponary closer to the border. Some of the nutters on the site want the GC's to take military action should the gc's not get their way. I am sure these are just a very very small minority and surely the GC's wouldn't do something so silly as attack, but how can they expect the TC'S to remove the Turkish troops under these conditions

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
21/05/2008 21:22

Newlad are you a ventriloquist your reply was coming out of Dodgers mouth !!

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
21/05/2008 21:26

Tats,

I said that without moving my lips its my alta ego mate,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
22/05/2008 00:30

Hi Paul,



I read an interesting article in the new Cyprus Star newspaper by Tansel Fikri. I do not know of this man, but I would be pleased if any board member could advise of his status. It was on page 16. 16th May edition.



With my limited experience of the problem, I have to say that I wholly agree with his assesment of the situation. Despite all of the "doubting Thomases", I have to say I remain optomistic of a positive outcome.(someone has to be optomistic!)



In the same newspaper was an interesting article on Cyprus Aviation Service ( the firm that

took out a 15 year lease on Gectikale Airport) It seems Asil Nadir claims to own 30% of the Company, but they have subsequently discovered that there is a substantial shareholding

held by the Greeks. ANYONE KNOW JUST WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? Has work on the Airport been started? IS THE PROJECT TO GO AHEAD?



These are very interesting times for the Cypriot people, and I would welcome the views of members of this board.



wynyardman

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
22/05/2008 09:58

Hi Wynardman



Thanks for your steer. Very interesting article.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
22/05/2008 20:16

John,

Where willi find this article.Tansel Fikri thats a tricky one hes not the person that invented the black pudding is he,

Regards,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
22/05/2008 21:12

Paul,



I think that you are just "scratching" around for a quick answer!



Go onto board phpbb3now under heading Cyprus Star, follow the link...Page 16.



Very interesting article for those with" optimism in their souls"



The article on CAS is in there somewhere.



Fascinating... but as you well know this subject occupies much of my conscious thinking.

We will discover the truth eventually......Rabbit away somewhere...I can smell it!!



Well I am being seduced by the smell of frying Black Pudding, what with that and an "inundation " of Efes (see other thread "this site is getting bitter).....life is really good



wynd (its the Efes yiou know)

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
22/05/2008 21:39

Thanks John,

Sorry you think i am such a pessimist.Talat and his mate are getting together tommorrow fingers crossed eh,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
22/05/2008 21:51

Hi Paul



Never said or thought that you are a pessimist. I just detected a general note of pessismism

on postings on this board. My take is that I just think failure this time is not an option. There is just too much at stake for all involved



Queen 3 days in Turkey! Opportune?

Water for the Island?

Can the EEC have a member country with a part not in the EEC?

Can Northern Cyprus be denied International recognition any longer?

Don't you think strategically we need Turkey in the EEC?



Tomorrow should be interesting. It will be interesting to read the communiques.



Did you read the article in the Cyprus Star. That made real sense to me.



Regards,

John.

Linus


Joined: 04/05/2008
Posts: 281

Message Posted:
24/05/2008 23:36

I am cautiously otpimistic there will be a solution. I agree there is to much at stake for a solution not to be reached. As was said earlier nothern ireland is a typical example where comprimises are reached on both sides what can be achieved. My view America will run out of patience this time if there is no solution and recognize NC as a state and so will Britian. They are running out of patience with GC

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
25/05/2008 00:08

Hi Linus I agree with your latter statements, but I think that these issues may be the underlining aim of the TRNC and as such shall we say 'hinder progress'.