EU law and Non-Eu spouses crossing the Green Line

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 13:09

This will be of interest to anyone who is married to a Non-EU spouses wishing to cross the Green Line. I had an email today from The Principal Administrator of the European Commission regarding the refusal of the Greek Cypriot control officers to let my Kazakh wife cross the Green Line. The reason they stated was that as she had entered via an illegal port, namely Ercan, she could not legally enter the Republic of Cyprus. This is in fact in total contravention of the EU Treaty that the ROC signed up to. I would like to hear from anyone who has experienced similar treatment, as indeed would the Commission itself. We have in fact crossed twice since that incident albeit via Metehan but even then we were told that for the future my wife should enter via Larnaca or Paphos to be deemed legal. This I was told is totally against EU law so if you are confronted by the same problem please let me know.

ianwfs


Joined: 08/01/2008
Posts: 563

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 13:43

Suggest you speak to mmmmmmm. He went into this in some depth a year or so ago.

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 13:51

I know Mark's views but the email I received requested me to try to locate other people who have received similar treatment to that we endured. What the GC's are telling us in in total contravention of EU law on freedom of movement.

BeeBop


Joined: 16/05/2009
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 14:13

This has also happened to us, we were told by fiends who are also in the same situation(married to a non EU member country)that they had crossed over and had no problem I had actually seen them shopping in Debenhams. We tried and my spouse was told NO it was a very uncomfortable time and then they photocopied our details and said to get a visa from Athens or any other country which had a visa consulate so we could gain entry together.

We were turned back and have never tried again, this was approx a year ago now.

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 14:17

If you are prepared to contact me and let me use this as another example of the Greek Cypriot's flouting of EU law then perhaps we can put a stop to this. Part of me says if they don't want me and my better half over there it is there loss. The thing is this all about freedom of movement within EU member states and I don't believe that the GC's should get away with it.

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 14:21

I don't want to get involved in lengthy communications on the forum but if any of you want to contact on me on a personal level please feel free.

BeeBop


Joined: 16/05/2009
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 14:27

Hi no problem, I feel exactly the same. I was enraged at the time and wanted to take it further but then cooled off and other things got in the way. If you could give me your e mail address I will contact you.

Well done for taking it further.

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 14:49

Thanks Richard. davidfstephan@gmail.com

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 14:57

re msg 1



The treaty is 2004/38/EC



It involves making easier the freedom of movement of EU citizens and their family members ( they don't have to be EU citizens )



Normally, if visiting the RoC you would apply to their local embassy and a vis would be issued FREE to the dependent of the EU citizen..



When it comes to the 'TRNC' thing get tricky .. The rump 'RoC' have THEIR laws and the EU has its Directives . when they conflict - the Directive takes precedence ... So a Brit CAN cross from N-S never having entered via a 'recognised port of entry'



Now Oilman's wife .. the first RoC Policeman would have lectured them about the CY law and sent them packing...



He might argue that the Directive says one should register one's non EU dependants within three months - that's kind of hard if you live outside the area of CY where the govt exercises effective control !



I would argue that Oilman's wife rights were breached..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 14:59

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:229:0035:0048:EN:PDF



This is the whole Directive



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_2004/38/EC_on_the_right_to_move_and_reside_freely



A simplified wiki explanation









Now, I am using this same directive to allow freedom of movement for my wife in the UK.. and so don't expect Cyprus to jump.. the UK certainly wasn't - until recently

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 15:04

Mark as usual you are offering good advice on the subject. You are quite correct about my wife's civil rights being breached and it is this more than any great wish to keep visiting the South that fires me up. The ROC gladly signed up to all aspects of the EU Charters involved here and they cannot cherry pick or make it up as they go along. I was told implicitly today that as the spouse of an EU citizen the GC Green Line officials have no right to refuse entry to your spouse. That is irresepctive of whether they have entered via Ercan or by seaports in the TRNC. I was also told quite succinctly that the case will be taken up with the ROC in Brussels.

bakhyt


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 32

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 16:55

Also had the same problem a couple of years ago , my husband had to have a operation on the otherside ,I went with him to the hospital no problem , then my next visit after the op , they refused , and again when I wanted to pick him up , for another year after it was fifty fifty if I was let across when accompanied by my husband .I am also Kazakh

Marisa


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 545

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 17:26

Some weeks ago there was an article in Cyprus Today ( readers' letters) about the same problem.

I replied to it as we face similar problems ( not always but sometimes , depending on the state of mood of the officer in charge at the moment).

My husbansd and I visited th Immigration Office in Nicosia , spoke to the Director of the Office and she said that I ( as a Russian citizen) should not have any problems at the check point as I am married to a British .

She gave us her tel number just in case .



Her name is Xenia Georgiadou , tel 22 804 488



You can call her and ask .

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 18:01

bakhyt if you would like to contact me at the email address I gave previously if you want to make a complaint about it?

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 18:03

Sorry Marisa nearly missed your response. Same request I gave to bakhyt applies to you to obviously!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 19:54

re 11



Hi Oilman



I think what I'm TRYING to say is if your wife can cross the Green line - without a Visa for the RoC - why can't mine ;) ?



The UK also signed up to this Directive, but you try turning up to board a plane with just a Marriage Cert !! To make thing smooth we had to get a EEA Family Permit Visa to the UK .. The Cypriots ( 'rump' RoC ) should offer you the opportunity of a free visa, from the UK or Kazakhstan for any subsequent visit, but allow you to enter - if you have your UK passport and the marriage Cert in English and reasonable proof of a relationship .





If your wife has residency - as your dependent - qualifying under this Directive - in another EU state she can show an ID card or Residency stamp in lieu of a Visa.



However, if she has ( say ) UK leave to remain - immigration via a national route ( not an EU one) then she SHOULD apply for a free visa.



Would you expect your wife to be able to fly to the UK / France without a visa ?

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
26/11/2009 20:47

Mark I totally agree with your viewpoint regarding your wife's right to enter the UK. Please remember that I enquired at the EU about the treatment we received at the Green Line and it is the EU Principal Amdinistrator who told me what I am telling you and everyone else. I only sought clarification on the point. I know you have done something similar and I did notice on the internet today a petition that has been raised for exactly the problem you are having.



We have had problems in the past before we were actually married entering the UK EVEN though my girlfriend [as she was at the time] had a visa we acquired in Lefkosa. She was held for 20 minutes at Stansted and 30 minutes in Manchester while they asked ludicrous questions about why she was visiting.



I didn't intend to get involved in a large amount of dialogue on this subject but just wanted to here from anyone who had similar problems. I have no wish to be a habitual contributor to Cyprus44!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 09:52

Hi David !



My apologies, I was trying to put a devil's advocate perspective and prepare anyone who thought there might be a quick solution , judging by your msg 1 !



These crossing points are a legal nightmare for the European Commission and everyone involved in the day to day practicalities of dealing with a surreal situation .





Thanks for the heads up, re the petition..



The UK govt has suffered at the hands of folk who *perceive* weakness re immigration matters - probably true re policing of illegal immigrants - but that shouldn't mean LEGAL one's rights are not a priority ..



The EU named the UK in a report about implementation of this Directive and things seem to be improving ..Cyprus aren't playing the game -still - either. Cases where non EU nationals have lived and worked LEGALLY in CY, refused Permanent residency, illegally.

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 12:05

No offence taken Mark. We are both faced with similar problems albeit from different sources.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 13:11

David,



I am a Brit in the same industry as your self with similar circumstances. My wife has a Kyrgyz passport in which is her 5 year UK visitors visa and she also has a Russian passport we had the same problem we only tried once and then gave up we decided that there was nothing we wanted in the South that we could not get in the North.

It will be interesting to see how you get on, good luck.

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 18:24

Privyet Mike and Vinera. If you want to email me off forum I will keep you in touch with developments. It would seem given that the good lady and I managed to make two subsequent trips over the Green Line that we are having more luck than mmmmmm [Mark] trying to get his wife into the UK. The problem for us is that we are never sure waht the response is going to be. In fairness the times we did get over the Green Line at Metehan the people on the GC control kiosk were unexpectedly friendly. Similarly when we were at Bostanci crossing they were OK there. It appears to me that Ledra Palace crossing seems to be the problem.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 18:36

Hi Mike =-msg 20



Your UK Visitors Visa - doesn't 'cut the mustard' as your Wife isn't RESIDENT in an EU state.. once you can prove than, you COULD create HELL if a RoC official tried to stop you crossing ..



As I said, IF you wanted to see the 'south' .. you would be entitled to a FREE RoC visitor VISA as you can demonstrate Vinera is your wife .



With that you can come and go - IF you enter via the 'south' ...



re David - msg 21



Mr Mrs is IN the UK.. it's just proving her entitlement to work - while we wait - up to six months - for her residency permit .. Under UK immigration law - re EU Dependants ( not UK Citizens - unless they've lived in another EU state for six months) - the irony is the UK don't insist on applying for residency !!!

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
21/12/2009 18:36

For anyone interested who I have not already told about recent events concerning my meeting with the EU commissioner on December 17th please contact me on my email and I will tell you what occured with the ROC Green Line issue.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
21/12/2009 19:42

David



Have flicked you an email...........

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
21/12/2009 20:04

G'day Oilman,



I've had exactly the same thing happen to my wife, about a year ago. I'm Australian and Emmy is Chinese. We had entered through Turkey and Ercan, and one day attempted to drive through at Nicosia for some shopping with a Brit taxi driver, but were turned back because Emmy was Chinese.



We have since entered many times through Larnaca, each time after a laborious process of requesting approval to apply for a visa from the Cyprus govt, then getting the visa from an embassy in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia. We have had no further problems passing both ways through the border.



I might add that the approval from the Roc govt. will only be forthcoming if we show receipts for at least two nights stay in a Roc hotel.

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
22/12/2009 18:23

Dear Rottolover sorry I have ben tardy replying to your message. It does seem to be that this issue about entering via Ercan is the problem. It shouldn't be for spouses of EU citizens but I suspect it is the GC's playing politics again.

lmc2803



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 8

Message Posted:
01/03/2010 01:39

Oilman, I have a question as my wife is coming to visit me next week (9th March 2010).



I am a UK citizen & passport holder working in the TRNC (EU project in Famagusta). I entered at Ercan in Jan 2010 & crossed at Ledra Palace a few days later to go to the south side for the evening, then crossed back to the north side at the end of the night.



My wife is a US citizen & passport holder. She is coming to visit me for 10 days and is arriving at Larnaca airport. I intend to go there by taxi to meet her. As a non-EU wife of an EU citizen will she have a problem crossing into the north? Will she need a visa ? Also should I bring our marriage certificate with me (we got married in the US in 2006). (I also have a US Green Card which might be useful).



If you'd prefer not to clog up the forum with this, my email address is lester2803@aol.com. Sorry to bother you with this; I'm quite new to Cyprus44 and have only just seen the posts regarding these issues.



Thanks in anticipation.