Turkey would invade EU territory to protect Turkish Cypriots?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 10:25

"In July, the Greek Cypriot side rejected any peace deal that would allow Turkey to maintain the right to intervene militarily in Cyprus but Turkey made it clear that it would never give up this right, not even if Cyprus were all part of the EU..."

Read more on http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 11:19

Er, according to UN Security Councils Resolutions *I* read ..they hadn't any 'right' in 1974 , either... ;)



Q: Was TR( and GR ) asked to pull it's troops out of Cyprus ?



A: YES..



I think I'm with the UN, rather than Turkey's interpretation !

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 11:41

mmmmm, agreed, Turkey had no "Right" to intervene in 1974 - but they did ask Greece and the UK and both said no.



Guess Turkey should have just done nothing and waited until all the TC's had been killed, then the UK would have made an apology to the world and everything would have been ok again.



Right or no right - they were right to take action, it saved lives in the long run and that was the important thing.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 11:57

I don't think Turkey cares what the UN says, M6, or hadn't you noticed. The problem is that at the time of the intervention/invasion Cyprus was not in the EU and the problem was left to the UN. The EU would become involved (again) if there is a United Cyprus Republic and it is totally in the EU and if the GCs did a 1963. It is then conceivable that Turkey would do as they warned they would do and send armed forces to Cyprus.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 12:07

dear mark,



are you using official pronouncements to mask your true feelings,

or perhaps it is a case of seeking backup for what is a sectarian view?



also, and this is in no way intended as a critical remark,

you refer to distant events as if they almost happened yesterday



times have moved on:

if you care about the greek cypriot cause as much as you'd appear to,

please warn your contacts it is playing with fire by stoking the isolations

...it's no skin off my nose, but history is peppered with many examples

of blockades going awol and it all ending in tears



the republic of (south) cyprus chooses to infuriate a powerful adversary

who will hardly stay idle while their brothers and sisters are held hostage,

so none should fake any surprise if turkey annexes north cyprus for good



as always, I refer to one objective possibility, given the present realities



andre

Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 12:19

msg 1 - "not even if Cyprus were all part of the EU..."



It is already, and the Turkish Military were already here when it became so!

They are still here, so they have clearly not given up that right.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 14:08

not quite the same, the EU got themselves involved in a divided country in 2004 and so did not have any justification for removing the Turkish army. If there was a settlement, say in June 2010, and the island became the United Cyprus Republic, a member state of the EU then they would take on the responsibility for the island. If, say, after 5 years when most of the Turkish troops had withdrawn, Cyprus was in the same position as 1974 and Turkey was to intervene under the 1960 guarantee then EU would be in a totally different position. I believe they would have to defend EU citizens, i.e. the GCs in this case. All hypothetical but then this is the reason, as part of the peace deal, the GCs are demanding that Turkey drops their right to intervene under the 1960 guarantee.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 14:33

whatever it really is about,

the european union is not a military alliance, unlike nato of which turkey is a founder-member

although it is true that eu-sourced peacekeepers have popped up to help sort several local conflicts,

but the franco-german combined division is as much about politics as military matters



only the most cynical among us would admit that european states have sheltered/do shelter

within an american economic/military security zone,

providing them with the luxury of relative freedom to pontificate at will about world problems,

including of course the dire situation on the island of cyprus...



where?!?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 14:43

It would seem the EU and UN can interpret the international law any way they like, legally or illegally. To except the Greek Cypriot part of the island as legal and allow them into the EU plainly shows this. When it comes to the TRNC and Turkey different rules apply.



Troodo.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 14:54

"the european union is not a military alliance"

That is now, but if you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union you'll see that there are possible plans for this to change and for an "EU army" and, wouldn't you know it, one of the proponents is the first President of the EU, Guy Verhofstadt along with Merkel and Sarkozy. You sure there's not going to be an EU army there in a few years having to stop Turkey exerting its right of intervention under the 1960 guarantee?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 15:00

If the EU have an army and run it the same way as they run the EU, no problem.



Troodo.

Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 15:02

Do you think that any possible future EU Army will defend the Turkish Cypriots as well as the Turkish army has done? I don't.

Therefore the Turkish Cypriots will never agree to any peace deal which removes their right (in the 1960 Constitution) to defence by the Turkish army.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 15:11

"Turkish Cypriots will never agree to any peace deal which removes their right (in the 1960 Constitution) to defence by the Turkish army."

So, its a forgone conclusion that the north will vote no if there was a referendum? So if we take the scenario of Turkey moving away from the EU then we're back to a foreign army on EU territory - who on earth was responsible for letting a divided country into the EU? How on earth did the north agree to a referendum in 2004 where whatever they voted they would lose and the south would win?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 15:20

malcolm,



in theory at least you may well be quite right:



the fact that I am unable to picture an eu army, as you'd call it, standing in turkey's way

this perhaps resulting in body bags shipping back to europe doesn't make it "impossible"

even though my perspectives are too narrow to forsee anything like this ever happening



likewise cyprus is of little strategic significance...



but then again we all seem to be assuming an "eu military victory" in such circumstances,

which I would admit is at least is a racing certainty but:



france and britain are nuclear-armed, and germany has limited access to us warheads

if johnny turk somehow beat the odds and won the first round,

thus boxing-in the euro forces, would eu states resort to the bomb to save their skins?



an interesting question

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 15:32

actually, I do not expect an EU victory. Breaking news is that Turkey does not have to settle the Cyprus dispute before entering the EU! Read http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com. This may be a misreading of what is being said but we'll see over the next few days.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 15:44

According to the Cyprus Mail, the mice that roar still say they can change the draft before the dead line.



Troodo.

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 15:53

I thought the GCs liked having Turkish troops on the island.



They had the chance to have them removed in the 2004 Annan Plan, but rejected it, so I can only assume they feel more comfortable with Turkish Peace Keeping troops around



Mark

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 16:06

no, I think that in 2004 they were told to vote NO and hold out for more - maybe 80,000 troops?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 16:07

malcolm,



an apparent turnup for the books



but the unlikelihood of turkey joining the eu depends on voters' opinions in several eu states

as well as the consistent opposition of leaders of the pack in paris and berlin



could turkey quietly slip through on the basis of letter-of-the-law processes and legal gymnastics?

I'd very much doubt it



as regards the eu appearing to climb-down over turkey and the vexed 1975 ankara protocol,

it may just be that they don't particularly think there is any mileage left in this particular dispute



andre

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 16:19

I think you're right Andre, I think that the EU has got the message that Turkey isn't going to change its mind and someone has created a document which is intended to get the EU out of a deadlock. Just imagine the impact on Turkey if the Cyprus problem was out of the equation!