Turkey can enter EU without Cyprus settlement

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 15:29

"The European Parliament has just approved a draft European Council document which in effect rules out action against Turkey if they ignore the 2005 Ankara Protocol and do not settle the Cyprus problem..."

Read more on http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 18:41

It seems Mr Bildt - who has had run ins with the RoC, before, isn't finished, yet !! ;)



I would like to see TR in the EU, and I reckon this COULD be the 'quid pro quo' for the RoC getting in the EU and the last RoC president advising GCs to vote no to Annan ...



Now... IF the Lisbon Treaty is ratified .. doesn't that mean MAJORITY voting - the Veto goes ? ...

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
27/11/2009 19:43

mark,



why would you like to see turkey in the eu:



could it be because turkey would first have to abandon cyprus?



oops!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 09:23

Msg 2, "IF the Lisbon Treaty is ratified .. doesn't that mean MAJORITY voting - the Veto goes?"

Yes, qualified majority voting in some areas but unfortunately unanimity will be retained in areas including "tax, foreign policy, defence and social security." You can bet that also means EU enlargement.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 10:11

One must be a complete and a total fool, to even entertain the idea that it is legally and /or politically and /or technically possible for a candidate country to become an EU member state, without fully recognizing each and every other existing member of the club. The very notion that one country (Turkey) is an applicant and a candidate to enter a club (EU,) without recognizing one or more of its existing members, is absurd. If you do not recognize one of the club’s constituents as a valid entity, it means you do not recognize the entire club itself as a valid entity, therefore for what reason you apply to become its member?



And Mr. “MMMMMM”…, no, the Lisbon treaty is not entirely about majority voting. Certain issues still require unanimity (i.e. veto rights,) and enlargement is one of them! Read it more carefully!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 10:42

"If you do not recognize one of the club’s constituents as a valid entity, it means you do not recognize the entire club itself as a valid entity"

Is that because the EU are infallible and could not possibly have made a mistake by allowing a divided country in, and because it was not a mistake to recognise one part (ethnic group?) of Cyprus as representing every Cypriot on the island and to allow the 1960 agreement to be superseded without first allowing ALL Cypriots to decide that this is what they wanted? Praxandros, please do not use the word carpet-baggers in your response.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 10:57

Turkey stands by international law. The Republic of Cyprus is defunct; it ceased to exist in 1963. There has been no move since then to make it legitimate. If the EU wish to ignore this fact it still does not make it legal. Turkey is in the right.



Troodo.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 11:02

well put Troodo!

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 11:30

I don't see any reason Turkey would want to be in the EU, just look at what the Euro has done for the south, and any other tourist destination using the Euro, it's nearly crippled them, by holding on to the Lira the Turks are gaining a lot of ground in the tourist market.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 11:34

Dear Mr Praxandros



re msg 5



THANK YOU for demonstrating my ignorance !



IF the 'rump' RoC does use Veto - I think the right of Veto will be doomed, along with any chance of 're-unification' - even the 'satanic' bi-zonal ' Annan-like Federal State solution of two autonomous regions, as one state.



What will the 'rump' RoC 'gain' by using the veto..?



It's use would surely 'rubber stamp' the de facto situation . is THAT what you want to see ?! :o





I found this interesting article under the 'a friendly guest' section:



http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/bildt-break-visits-turkey-macedonia/article-187770



Bildt did not get the EU high representative job partly because he is seen as too sympathetic to Turkey, at least from the perspective of Paris and Berlin.



May be it would be wiser to let them do your 'dirty work ' ?

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 11:58

Mr. “MMMMMM,” I know you trauma from Annan plan’s rejection, but try to get over it. The people have decided that the plan did not serve justice to its minimum, and rejected it. I am one of them, one that has family properties around Kyrenia coast that worth millions and thus have every reason to want a solution, and I am not so stupid not to have seen the light! What do you suggest? That GCs should let Turkey have a free ride acceding the EU, without showing willingness to compromise on even the most basic and reasonable issues, so that we do not “burn” our veto or we do not upset those that have interests in seeing a member of the EU? It won’t happen!

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 11:58

The mice that roar.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 12:19

Praxandros, it was the EU which accepted Turkey as a candidate, not north Cyprus, and if south Cyprus is alone among member states in rejecting this candidacy then it will seem to the international community to be sour grapes. However, if Turkey do not fulfil the other non-Cyprus Problem requirements for entry then you would be right in saying they would be unacceptable as a member of the EU. Why not take the Cyprus issue out of the equation, as the Famagusta Fazette suggest it has been, and see if Turkey are truly able to meet all the other requirements?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 12:24

That's fair, malsancak.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 12:28

Does anyone think that they withdraw troops,

Paul.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 12:49

I do think they will withdraw many of their troops but would probably expect to retain a similar number of troops to that of any other guarantor, i.e. UK.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 14:45

Not much chance of that unless the GC's have a mass lobotomy.



Troodo.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 14:53

I think the Annan Plan was talking of a reduction of Turkish troops to around 5,000 and there are 3,500 British troops in the Sovereign Base Areas in the south. I doubt if the guarantors' troops will ever completely leave.

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 14:56

I dont think it will matter it seems to me that the tide is turning and almost anything goes now with Turkey as the E.U. are desperate to have them on board at almost any cost.The gcs will be livid,

Grey.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 17:24

Malsancak and Troodo, mistake or no mistake, Cyprus (RoC) EU membership is a done and closed deal, and there is nothing you, Turkey or anyone else can do about it, no matter how much you bitch and moan! It is an irreversible GC political fait accompli, much like you treat Turkey’s illegal and forceful occupation, ethnic cleansing, property usurpation and division of Cyprus, since 1974. I know you would have wished Cyprus to have remained outside the EU, and thus politically weakened and in the mercy of Turkey’s political and military might, as it used to be all these 30 whole years before 2004. This would have allowed you, in the long run, to have been able to push for a settlement identical or in accordance with your Turkish nationalist agendas of permanent suzerainty over the whole of Cyprus, and the whole of the Eastern-Mediterranean seas.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 17:26

cont.

That is why you are all so much pissed off, of the fact that the RoC and the GCs have managed in 2004 to somehow level the playing field, by strengthening their political position in the world scene and gaining some leverage over Turkey. I know you wish to have been able to retain the complete upper hand, as you have gotten used to, but tough luck! Things have changed in 2004, and they have changed dramatically. I suggest you get over it.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 17:31

In my opinion the gcs have had their day and will now be made to tow the line.2010 will be the year of the Turks,

Paul.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 17:41

And in the opinion of my ass, Cyprus by 2010 will be a superpower, but I do not give to it much more credibility than I give to your opinion.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 17:47

http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/2009/02/03/northern-cyprus-property-exhibitors-banned-from-exhibition/id=00774



Click on the video link.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 17:49

Re 11



Mr Praxandros



>>I know you trauma from Annan plan’s rejection, but try to get over it.<< Indeed I was traumatised - by the depth of lies and propaganda the GCs were exposed to.. How the President lied, how Christofias was more interested in holding on to power - instead of advising AKEL to vote YES.



>>family properties around Kyrenia coast that worth millions and thus have every reason to want a solution<<



I realise that for folks in Kyrenia the Annan Plan was 'useless' ,, who would WANT to return there? But what is your idea of compromise.. turn the clock back to 1974 and put the TCs back into enclaves ?



>>What do you suggest?<< Mass testing out of Turkey's 'IPC' - if it's not already too late - before the ECHR rule on it's effectiveness. This should have been done ages ago.



The 'rump' RoC can't pick and choose the ECHR rulings it 'likes' :( Your ppl have been BADLY advised.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 17:53

Prax,

Every dog has its day and everyone on here is entitled to there opinion,whether you respect mine or not is completeley up to you.I just see a big swing happening towards Turkey in the very near future.Remember where you heard it first,

Paul.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:04

mmmmmmmm,



The GCs have been badly advised since the 1960s. They are currently standing at the bottom of a deep hole but don't know when to stop digging.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:13

Mr Praxandros,

Perhaps sir you might show your true colours.

It is accepted that you may hold title to millions of pounds worth of property in the Kyrenia Region.

Do you have a political agenda to have TRNC destroyed or do you accept that the North is abundantly and irrevocably Turkish in language, culture, politically and stature.

You will be well aware of the IPC as a local remedy to your loss of property and for retribution. Of course there are mant that challenge the commission as an effective remedy. We await the ECHR judgment on that matter. I would recommend that you join the many hundreds of GC that have lodged claim.

If your aspirations are politically motivated then I fear that you are unlikely to see much change in your favour in your lifetime. You are very correct that the ROC position is now strengthened somewhat as EU members.

However the Cyprus and Ctpriots are now a diluted entity as other Europeans can freely visit, work , live and treat generally as their

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:20

Praxandros, you have your opinions about the importance of south Cyprus but they are not shared. When I look at the countries which are important on the world stage, south Cyprus does not enter the list. What they do will never be allowed to influence what the big players want to do. The UK barely gets on the list.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:23

cont....

own the Island.

Turkey, without doubt has become a much bigger international player on the World stage and respect is guaranteed, based upon its strategic, military and economic might. As an adversary, I fear the ROC, now apart from Greek support that was familiar in the 60,s, is out of league. It is clear that the ROC are reduced to civil and Human Rights litigation in order to keep their unification flame alive.



My belief is that time is not on the GC side. The clear establishment and strength of the TRNC cannot be extinguished by a Court. I see no inkling at all for military intervention. The ROC administration would be best advised to negotiate hard for a bi-zonal seperation of the Island. GC should grasp the IPC as they should have grasped Annan. Gc's have lost a lot since Annan and since 2004. I expect to see a diminishing level of compensation and retribution made available as time goes by and the matter slowly passes into historical archive

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:28

Looks like Prax may have been injected with a dose of the Pikeys,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:37

mr prax



you are deluded ,you write as many greek cypriots do ,as if cyprus is greek .



your misconceptions about cyprus will leave most of you gcs isolated in the long run ,just

like you have done to us tcs ,the tide will eventually turn it always does .



we tcs are willing in the past ,now or in the future to treat gcs as equals and share this beautiful

island of ours the cypriots and anyone else .unfortunately the gcs are not ,however like others are

stating the longer you continue with your existing stance the deeper both tc and gc roots deepen.



then what.



musin





long live the kktc

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:38

Mr. “MMMMMM,” if you had known the Cyprus issue in depth, you would have also known that the vast majority of GCs and their elected leadership under Makarios never regarded the pre-1974 (1964-1974) status quo as a closed and final deal. You would have known that the GCs and Makarios never regarded the to a very large extent self-isolation of the TCs into enclaves, and their withdrawal and absence from the mechanisms of the RoC, as done and closed deal, or as an unalterable favorable GC fait accompli.

con...

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:39

…cont.

If you had known the Cyprus issue in depth, you would have known that since 1968, the GC side had removed all barriers and checkpoints around TC enclaves, and invaded a TC exodus back to their original villages and properties, something which of course the TC leadership and the TMT fought with teeth and nail not to have materialized, through terrorizing with all means the TCs inside the enclaves. You would have also known that Makarios government had promised subsidies for rebuilding damaged or destroyed homes and properties, to those TCs that would have wished to permanently return back to their villages outside the enclaves. You would have also known that large numbers of TCs had chosen to defy the TMT and had chosen, at least during day time, to move out of the enclaves, cultivate their field or seek employment among the GCs, much like after 2004, and that from 1968 until 1974 (before the invasion) not a single TC hair was touched or lost from a GC hand.

cont…

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:40

…cont.

If you had known the Cyprus issue in depth, you would have also known that Klerides and Denkatsh were negotiating since 1968 and up until before the 1974 Turkish invasion, for the return of the TC community back into the RoC institutions through a revised and more balanced constitutional terms and arrangements. You would have also known that up until the spring of 1974, the two men had come so close to an agreement, that (in Klerides words) 90% or 95% of the issues had been discussed and agreed upon.

Therefore, you and many others do stop the slandering claims that mine and the rest of the GCs idea of a compromise, is to “turn the clock back to 1974 and put the TCs back into enclaves,” when all facts, including Christofia’s well known power sharing proposals in this round of talks, do not suggest such an absurd, ignorant, slandering and insulting proposition.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:44

message 34

first sentence should read "...and invited a TC exodus back to their original villages and properties..."

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 18:59

It seems so glib but I have to write it, that was then and this is now. GCs voted down a settlement in 2004 and because of that Cyprus remains divided NOW. What excuses will they use when they will, I believe, vote down yet another settlement in 2010. Whose fault will it be then, especially as their own President will recommend it to them, unlike the last one?

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 19:04

"WAZ-24-7," rest sure neither me nor a single other GC I know "accept (or may ever possibly accept) that the North is abundantly and irrevocably Turkish in language, culture, politically and stature."

There is no people on planet earth that after 4,000 years of historical existence and heritage in a place -during the longest part of which as the single people and culture in that land, nevertheless always the overwhelming majority in it, accepts or will ever possibly accept that this part of its country no longer belongs to them; just because another country and another people illegally invaded and usurped it from them. Let me remind you that we have survived the Persians for 500 years under their rule, the Arabs for 400, the Romans for 300, the Franks and the Venetians for 200, the Ottomans for 300 years, and many others; but in the end they have all gone and we have stayed were we belonged. We have seen this film before, and we know how to wait for as long as it takes.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 19:11

Praxandros, who is this "we" who have stayed when all the others have gone - are they Greeks by any chance? Is Cyprus Greek? I've got bad news, if this is what you are going on about, they don't want you. The Motherland is having enough problems of her own.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 19:19

mr prax



i rest my case .



see you in five hundred years then ,neighbour .



musin



long live the kktc

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 19:22

"MUSIN M," we GCs have a very strong feeling and a convinction that it it will not take that long this time.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 19:24

The "we," malsancak, refers to the Greek Cypriots of cource, and even "MUSIN M" understood it so well.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 19:37

By the way, MUSIN, let me also remind you that the Phoenicians too had once and for about 300 years carved away from the GCs, as much as the SE 30% of Cyprus, and had declared their “independed” Phoenician state. Where are the Phoenicians today, and where are we (GCs?) We are still here, alive and kicking, the Phoenicians disappeared. The Persians did not manage to Persianise us after 500 years, nor managed to make us forever abandon Cyprus or any part of it. Neither the Arabs, nor the Romans, nor the Ottomans, nor the Phoenicians, nor the Franks, nor the British, nor the Saracens, nor the Israelis, nor..., nor..., nor. What makes you believe that you will achieve what even the greatest empires in their times did not achieve? By the way, MUSIN, let me also remind you that the Phoenicians too had once and for about 300 years carved away from the GCs, as much as the SE 30% of Cyprus, and had declared their “independed” Phoenician state. Cont...

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 19:40

...Cont.

As I already said, we have seen this film been played many, many, many times before, we know how we will survive, and we know we will survive…

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 19:48

mr prax



like most gcs you believe you are more intelligent then you really are .



if you want the whole of cyprus for yourselves ,come and get it .



sorry mate but your mask has slipped ,try replacing it before any notices .



we tcs are willing to share as i have expressed ,how unfortunate you gcs are not.

strong feeling and conviction alone will get you no where ,pray tell all how you will take the

the whole of cyprus,just like your feelings and your conviction we tcs have them also,you gcs

believe you are far superior then us mere mortal tcs , just remember this my gc friend ,mind you

do not out smart yourselves.



musin



long live the kktc

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 19:59

Praxt.

I feel so sorry for you. The shame for what you GC’s did is obviously too much, so you turn it into denial. You can talk about enclaves as if they were holiday camps, then to solve your conscious you say your people offered to let the TC’s go back to their villages. That’s like the German’s saying come into this bathhouse, we only want you to be happy.



For your own sake, get real.



Troodo.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:03

No MUSIN, we do not believe that we are any more intelligent than you, but at least as intelligent as you are. The only difference between us is that because you Turks appeared only recently in the history of this planet, in comparison to us GCs -just a little over 1,000 years ago; when you were just about ready to begin your journey in exploring humanity and the world itself, we were already on our way back from the same trip. That means we have a way longer experience and knowledge, and we know way better how to survive in our homeland and in history.

Cont...

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:04

...cont,

As for us wanting the whole of Cyprus for ourselves, no we do not make such a claim nor share such a believer. We do recognize your (TC’s) right to exist in this country, with your own identity, culture, language, religion and dignity, even though you only have 1/10th of our history in this country. Rest sure we do recognize you such a right. What we do not recognize to you to have the right is to claim any part of Cyprus in your exclusive ownership, and to eradicate all or any of the Greek Cypriot rights from or in it.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:06

Dear Waz/ Warren



>>Do you have a political agenda to have TRNC destroyed <<



To 'destroy' something it has to 'exist' ..



>>do you accept that the North is abundantly and irrevocably Turkish in language, culture, politically and stature. <<



No.. it was 'created' by ethnic cleansing .. what even happened to it's Cypriot culture? Did YOU forget that some TCs only spoke GREEK ?

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:06

Errata: message 48 (above,)in first sentence it should read: “…nor share such a belief.”

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:10

Praxt.

You will be claiming direct decent from Mt Olympus next.



At least you made me laugh.



Troodo.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:16

Troodo, as a matter of fact, yes we do! We are the Greekified continuation of the indigenous Cypriot population that had always existed in Cyprus, since pre-historical times.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:23

until those Ottoman's came along and messed it all up? Greekified Cypriots, you sure your don't mean Cypriotified Greeks?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:33

Hate to burst your bubble Praxt, but genetically you are closer to the TC's than the Greeks.



Troodo.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:38

Troodo, could it because the TCs are genetically closer to us GCs, than they are to mainland Turks?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:42

Of course, you have been beating up your own brothers.

Oops to late now.



Troodo.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:43

Dear Mr Praxandros



Thanks for the 'lecture' - but luckily for most of the readers on here, some of us area little more clued up and don't accept your rose-tinted spectacle view of CY 1963 - 74.



Those with agendas ended up polarising both sides - and thugs often ran the 'show'..



Makarios realised far too late that he had massively miscalculated, by allowing GCs to believe they could attain Enosis .. He wasn't REALLY in control for a long time.



You are also being a little too 'charitable' to Mr Denktash - his aim of Taksim was finally achieved.



As you know, if TCs WANT to return to their villages , they can, now.. Why don't they? Why don't moderate TCs trust the 'rump' RoC govt ?



Annan was that 'chance'... your ppl will not get a better deal ... the plan had within it the chance for ultimate freedom of movement .. by now Morphou and Varosha would be administered by GCs and most of the TR army would be gone - with a cap of 40K Mainland Turks..

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:45

Malsancak, the name of the village is Karavas, and not "red banner" as you "renamed" it. Anyhow, so that I solve your puzzle, it is both Greekified Cypriots and Cypriotified Greeks merging together and becoming one cultural entity that today you know by the term "GreekCypriots."

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:53

"MMMMMM," you are welcome! I have a strong feeling you have indeed learned something from my lecture. I suggest you speak more with facts, as I do, rather than with rhetorical slogans and motherhood claims. I can assure we still hear this pro A-plan rhetoric from some GCs that had sponsored it in 2004, yet they are unable to convince any more GCs than they did then. If any of what I said does not constitute a fact, please feel free to indicate so.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:57

If we have beaten you brothers, we may have only done so for only just a few (3-4) years. That is in sheer contrast with the 300 years that you aligned yourselves with our Ottoman conquerors, in beating us -your brothers.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:57

mr prax



you post with such self indulgence that you leave not just yourself ,but other gcs agape to

dissipation,however you are welcome to continue.







musin



long live the kktc

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 20:58

Message # 60 was for Troodo.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:00

Dear Praxandros



>>I have a strong feeling you have indeed learned something from my lecture<< About you, yes ! I note you haven't responded to my answer..



I am of the opinion that HAD AKEL's then leader (and now a VERY weak Prsident ) advised GCs to vote YES to Annan, they would have done.. that would have meant both DISY and AKEL were in the YES camp.



I ask you again.. how do you expect GCs will be able to return to Kyrenia ?

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:02

Any more passionate slogans, Musin?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:04

ah, Praxandros, do I sense elements of eugenics in your world view? The name of the village WAS Karavas, the signs say Kantara now and I didn't create the puzzle on NCFP.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:05

Dear MMMMMM, A-plan is dead and burried! Do get over it, if you wish to make some more or better sense than you do.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:10

Malsancak, do you know how many times in history the name of Kyrenia (more correctly Kerynia) was attempted to be renaimed, since the city was founded by Achean Greeks, nearly 4,000 years ago? Many! Yet, it managed to reclaim and keep its initial founding name, to this day and hour.

jinyx


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:17

They say "put up or shut up!" well, I'll put up!. Even though I see the points of both sides, I have to say that, how can anyone, in their wildest dreams expect anyone british (or any other nationality) who have bought property in north cyprus to see any side other than the turkish cypriot one, due to the fear of having to give up their property should turkey join the e.u.. ( and very soon, they will!) , and thats "FACT". Thats why, they will always argue the turkish side. I think, unless you are turkish or greek cypriot, you should keep your opinions to yourselves, and leave the arguement to them. You really wouldnt give a toss if it didnt affect you, would you?. As most of the british didnt give a toss about northern ireland, which was, (and is ) a very similar situation.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:20

Praxandros, we're back to Greeks again - so what you're saying is that Cyprus is Greek and always will be and APOEL is the best team in the world, am I right or am I right? And furthermore, no matter how long we prattle on this board, Cyprus will still be divided and this is doing nothing to change that, in fact it makes it more likely for it to stay divided.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:26

mr prax



how you have derived that what i have posted is a slogan i don,t know ,it is a statement ,



musin





long live the kktc

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:46

Malsancak, that Cyprus is historioculturally, primarily and predominately Greek, it is a fact I am not the one saying so, but every self-respecting historian or anthropologist that ever existed; plus it is manifested if you just look around you in the island's nature, or if you visit any relevant museum such as those of NYC, London, Paris and Nicosia. Now, if you want to ask to whom it belongs, it does so only to its indigenous population, 80% of which happen to be of GreekCypriot ancestry or origin. The whole of it!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 21:56

Blimey Praxandros, the way you say it, it's almost as if it's true. You're absolutely right! I just looked at a map of Cyprus and I could tell just from the shape that it was Greek. It has a Greek shape a bit like a Greek pizza that I once dropped on the floor and stepped on when I was in Athens. So you've proved to me without a doubt that Cyprus is Greek, apart from the northern bit that is.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 22:12

jinyx, I beg to disagree. The case of (north) Ireland entails a very essential difference, to that of Cyprus. The difference, to the best of my knowledge, is due to the fact that the majority of people in the area that constitutes North Ireland were Protestants, and the majority of people in the area that constitutes the Republic of Ireland were Catholics, and that is how Ireland was eventually separated, i.e. along the religious identities of its people. The case of Cyprus is markedly different in that the separation between GreekCypriots in the south and TurkishCypriots in the north is only the result of ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Turkey in and after 1974. The vast majority of the indigenous people in both “parts” of Cyprus, north and south of the existing cease-fire line, has always and up until 1974 been made of GreekCypriots, in an identical percentage to that of Cyprus as a whole (i.e. 80:20.)

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 22:17

prat sorry i mean prax,



you can go on preaching your historic crap for as long as the cows come home but events from july 1974 mean that cyprus northern is anything but greek! its in and under the control of turkey and thats a fact , also it will never be returned and thats a fact !



so whats the point in all these history lessons? my advice would be get over it and enjoy your bit in the south



lol

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 22:22

malsancak, I do not know if the shape of Cyprus looks Greek, or the shape of Greece looks Cypriot; but what I know for sure is that the shape of Turkey does look Greek, that is why it is known throughout history by the Greek word "Anatolia." Stupid arguments or comments are always and best met with equally stupid ones.

Praxandros


Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 22:25

Hey Andy-f, I assure you I sympathize with your agony and anxiety, even though unfortunately am unable to share it.



lol

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 23:10

Prax,

I think that I am now more clear upon your aspirations and motive.

Why is it that you are unable to move on with your life. I imagine that you have established yourself in the ROC and that you are comfortable. What do you aspire to with regard to the properties that you have a title claim upon. Do you really think that you can move back to the North with comfort and security that you currently enjoy in the South. Is further Ethnic cleansing on your agender or even Enosis. Perhaps you may then need to ethnic cleanse the Island of your fellow Europeans. It will then be the ROC before the ECHR.



You are so far away from the de-facto situation in TRNC. Time is not on your side and the ever changing face of the World and History will in time see your aspiration and cause fade to insignificance.

I am sorry but your cause is exciled to the Courts. Litigation is fine for small issues amongst individuals.

As Justice Jack of the British Court of Appeal has said. The Cyprus ...cont

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
28/11/2009 23:16

cont is ill suited to civil litigation. The problem is political and a political solution is needed.

Clearly as the TRNC is very much in control in the North, has done for more than 30 years, peace prevails, political talks upon solutioncontinue, local remedy (IPC) exhists for those disadvantaged in 1974. What other measures can you propose to see convergence and solution?

I fear that you like some others have the loaded gun ready and only when you have left this mortal coil will a lasting solution be found.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 00:13

Paxt msg 71.

This was before you were genetically tested.



Troodo.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 00:29

Prax....is this the greek word for "Pike"



How about joining in on other forum topics and take off your blinkers for a while.

as for you message 78...you have no idea on Irish politics. One thing is for sure......Britain has been involved in both Islands troubles!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 09:41

msg 75, Praxandos wrote "Stupid arguments or comments are always and best met with equally stupid ones"

Well you started the stupid comments with msg 5. But to get back to the article mentioned in msg 1, what if Turkey's solution of the Cyprus Problem really is going to be no longer needed in order for Turkey to enter the EU?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 11:49

re 66



Mr Praxandros..



re: >>A-plan is dead and burried! Do get over it, if you wish to make some more or better sense than you do.<<



and we await a constructive realistic alternative - Mr Lialotopoulos promised one ..and 'forgot' ..



It seems you are settling for something worse than the 'satanic plan' as I see nothing being negoiated and AGREED apon that exceeds those provisions

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 12:01

Dear Mr Praxandros

re msg 73



Jinyx, ironically, is CORRECT.. The CY and Irish problems are similar.. indeed I would suggest you brush up on my country's history as you are 'weak' here, too ;) .. but again, ironically, in helps your 'case ' :;





The British populated the north .. 'planted' Protestants - DELIBERATELY to alter the balance of the population - just like TR have done post invasion in 74



The ratio of Protestants to R.Catholics is closing - due to a Protestant diaspora and higher birth rate of RCs..





It seems to me your best best for a soln.,was to AGREE to an Annan-like soln - go for the 19 yr abrogation of EU Human rights - and hope for more rights, thereafter as part of a united island, in the EU .. with TR in the EU, too - freedom of movement returned ... and to BREED like mad and see which ethnicity can 'win' in the stud stakes.. ;)



Protestants are 'losing' this race, now, and your 80:20 ratio is nonsense - in this context.. !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 12:04

Dear Waz / Warren



I notice you have had time to respond to Praxandros.. hoping you can respond to my msg of 49



It's just that you are persisting in your folly of saying 'TRNC' is very much in control .. TURKEY is..

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 12:08

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=49070&cat_id=1



"Worse still, the balance of the game has changed. Big players in the European game, led by France, are now openly opposed to Turkey ever joining the European Union, reducing whatever little leverage Cyprus ever had to nil. With Ankara under little illusion about the final outcome of the game, there is no way it feels the slightest pressure to compromise its stand on Cyprus".



"Ultimately, we have to ask ourselves what this says about the government’s commitment to a solution, at a time when we should be in the final straight of negotiations that must conclude before the spring. If the government was serious about reunification, this should be a time when we were playing down the rhetoric, focusing on the positive, preparing public opinion ahead of a possible referendum that could be little more than two or three months away. Instead of which, President Demetris Christofias was last week writing to his European counterpart

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 12:08

a letter berating Turkey – and his Turkish Cypriot interlocutor at the talks – in terms that suggest he is neither close to, nor has the desire for a solution.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 12:11

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=49067&cat_id=1



A seemingly influential group of people seem very unhappy with Christofias proposed solution





NICOS Anastassiades, President of DISY wants outside help.



It's all falling apart

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 12:15

"PM Erdogan wants a Cyprus settlement. While nationalists in north Cyprus and Turkey might see Talat as a weak bargainer, willing to make big concessions in negotiations with Christofias, Ankara will be happy to see an early settlement, certainly before the presidential elections".



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=49075&cat_id=1

jinyx


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 13:02

Re msg 83 & 84

Mark, in both cases your quite right, Thats why mr paisley, and then, his son, agreed to share goverment with the catholics, which would have been unthinkable in the 70s, they knew the game was up!. It was always predicted that the catholics would be the majority by 2012, and paisley knew this so he had no choice. So that old 60s saying "make love not war" (without a condom) was really spot on in N. Ireland, for the catholics



On the second point, anyone who thiinks that turkey is'nt in control of north cyprus is seriously deluded !.



Oh and another thing mark, theres a hotbird sat. system for sale on here, would it be worth buying?



Cheers WEE MAN!!!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 14:07

re 89 Jinyx







Hotbird system? - could be used to get free Hotbird stuff.. but better turned to aim at Nilesat for free TV



Good for a holiday system - recommend you sell it as such !!

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 14:08

mmmmm.

sorry missed that one.

Not sure specifically of the question but assume related to my statement concerning the status of the North.



It is accepted that UN resolutions and others deny the existance of the TRNC.

The De-facto situation is undeniable. This cannot be ignored and I see no forthcomming prospect of the situation changing. Indeed the Region continues to develop as a Turkish speaking, cultural and political region.

TC are omnipresent and generally the de-facto situation has progressed leaps and bounds since the dark days of 35 + years ago.

It wouls take some very drastic and sweeping changes to try and change the current status. I see no probability that something better can be achieved without severe trauma and distress to the Island.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 15:00

re msg 91



>>It is accepted that UN resolutions and others deny the existance of the TRNC. <<



No - they say it is ' legally invalid ' and more..



But I would suggest that post the Annan YES of TCs the attitudes have changed ..



>>Indeed the Region continues to develop as a Turkish speaking, cultural and political region. <<



But did you know that means at the cost of TC dialects, and unique CYPRIOT culture and many TCs were quite happily speaking Greek ?



>>TC are omnipresent and generally the de-facto situation has progressed leaps and bounds since the dark days of 35 + years ago. <<



NO, Waz .. TCs are probably outnumbered by Turks from the mainland and did you know tear gaz was used on TC 'civil servant demonstrating about pay in your ' improved by leaps and bounds ' surreality ?



>>It wouls take some very drastic and sweeping changes to try and change the current status.<<



We agree on that - but hopefully that will be up to CYPRIOTS - not Turkey, Greece, UK,

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 15:01

(cont from 92)



USA et all

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 17:18

Mark,



msg 83, makes me proud of you.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 17:22

mmmmmm



many tcs were quite happily speaking greek ,,,,,sorry but could you please explain to these good

good people how it is that us tcs speak greek and the gcs speak no turkish.



come on answer and tell them as you think you know all about us turks.





musin



long live the kktc

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
29/11/2009 18:44

mmmmmm

Msg 92 response.



Yes Mark I am fully aware of the legality stance that many take.

Yes the Turkish influence is very clear and the TC influence has been much diluted.

However, TC respect is very clearly maintained by all, turkish, British, European et al that are in the TRNC.

It is shamfull that many outside of TRNC continue to support the significant disadvantage that TRNC citizens are forced to burden for example, restriction on travel, representation, freedom of expression and trade embargo.



I fear that the Cypriot problem is most definately in need of international intervention. I fear that Cypriots alone are shown to be incapable of acceptance of eachother and to secure a comprehensive solution to the Islands problems.



Mark your reference to isolated incidences such as tear gaz do not alter the clear de-facto and evident changes that have taken place. This Progress cannot and should not be reversed or contested.

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
30/11/2009 13:43

cant believe im agreeing with mmmmmmm on most of his points well done mmmmm

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
30/11/2009 14:14

I was beginning to wonder if someone had stolen M6's identity as they were supposed to have done for firestarter

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/11/2009 18:01

Lest anyone think I'm 'changin' - those knowing me a long time will know my stance hasn't changed a BIT ;)



I want all 'Cypriots' and I mean Cypriots to have prioritised redress re property - even if it will take 20+ years...



If this means non-Cyps having their freehold converted to leasehold - something I REALLY do suspect will happen I think that would be for the good in the long term.



If all of CY and TR come under the EU acquis and a time can pass to 'heal' - to get used to regional autonomy - I can't see why a Turk couldn't live work in Limas(s)ol or a GC live in Kyrenia , again.





Some may say I'm a dreamer...

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
30/11/2009 19:22

"I can't see why a Turk couldn't live work in Limas(s)ol or a GC live in Kyrenia , again"

It worked before, but not when Cypriots were in charge.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/11/2009 20:24

mmmmmm







dream on





musin







long live the kktc

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/11/2009 22:22

Dear Musin_M



Not so many years ago I watched a N.Ireland politician try a suicide mission by crossing into the south of Ireland in a Lada to which was attached a Union ( British Flag) - they could have at least tried in a DeLorean -they were stoned and had to retreat ..





ANYWAY..



The same Politician - now retired - became VERY chummy - some said too chummy with a man he always said was a murderer, a terrorist and with whom he would never do business.



I would equate this with Mr Denktash trying to drive into the 'south' with a 'TRNC' flag and later being friends with Mr Liealotopoulos...



You say dream.. I've seen it HAPPEN ;)

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
30/11/2009 22:30

Agree with the thread says,but maybe for different reasons.



Turkey can get into the EU or will be denied entry for various reasons but Cyprus will not be one of them.

If EU power brokers decide to let Turkey in ,the Cyprus Problem will not prevent it. Likewise if the opposite happens then Turkey opening its ports and departing Cyprus will not prevent Turkey being refused entry. The only value in the Cyprus Problem is as one of many excuses for refusing entry if the brokers decide on that route.

The value being that France ,Germany etc could say we really wanted you in but ,you know, the Cyprus Problem tied our hands. That way Turkey would save face, tell its people that the whole of EU wanted us in but those pesky Greeks and GC's are to blame and the EU would still enjoy good relations with Turkey ,apart that is from Greece annd ROC.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 01:20

mmmmmmm msg 99

A noble and just aspiration, but is this realistic. ROC is now european and also many non cypriots have titles in TRNC.

The Cypriot idiollogy is becoming more diluted as time passes. Historically the Island has passed through many mixed and varied hands. This, by virtue of its poularity, strategic value and desirability will continue for time imortal. What indeed is a Cypriot? The gene pool is very much a cosmopolitan mix and now we have significant dilutions from around the world.

I fear your aspiration becomes less atainable with time but new peace and prosperity for the \island is certainly possible and is also a just and proper aspiration.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 07:04

Dear Musin_M re 95



>>'many tcs were quite happily speaking greek' ,,,,,sorry but could you please explain to these good



good people how it is that us tcs speak greek and the gcs speak no turkish. <<



1/ Do you agree there were TCs who only spoke Greek ?



2/ Do you accept that some GCs speak Turkish ?



>>come on answer and tell them as you think you know all about us turks. <<



You means Turks or TCs?



Do you want to know about a TC lady I know who only knew Greek and was subjected to derision and teasing by TC kids when her family had to move to the 'north' ?



Or



do you want to know about a Turk - who lived on the island and hoped for a settlement along the Annan Plan guidelines





Or



maybe a GC who grew up in a mixed village and spoke Turkish - and was happy to speak it, again, in 2003.



Not everyone still hates, Musin.





















come on answer and tell them as you think you know all about us turks.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 12:50

ooops.. pls disregard the last line.. it was from Musin's post !

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 13:28

it is a good thing that the "dispute" has been taken out of the equation.



The decision to allow Turkey membership of the EU will be based on some higher political agenda, one which will not be transparent to all. To the general masses excuses will be made about human rights and islamic issues. When the unelected, behind the scenes controllers decide it is time, Turkey will be allowed in!



The only resolution possible for the north - south dispute is an imposed one, supported by the EU / UN whereby dispossessed peoples will receive adequate financial compensation where their lands cannot, for whatever reason, be returned to them. Yes, it will cost but what the hell, what is money anyway. It is digits on computers. How do you think they helped the banks?! All imposed, with digits representing Billions!

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 14:51

Praxandos. I suggest you read the forum rules. Especially rule 5.



Quote '5. Freedom of Speech

We respect every member's right to post his/her opinions, on all issues except ones questioning the legality of TRNC.

If you do not accept this rule, do not join to the board.

Any violations of this rule will result in immediate banning of your account.'

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 19:34

mmmmmm



listen you may be a really nice guy,sure ,regardless you have not answered the question to which

i have put to you ,,,,,,why is it that so many tcs speak greek ,and fluent i must add, and gcs do not .

yes there are some gcs who do speak turkish,very few and not fluent .



and please stop asking the same old question about tcs or turks ,i am turkish ,born in nicosia to

turkish parents ,cypriot ,yes turkish ,yes.



from what people say about you who have met you ,you sound like a really nice guy ,what let,s you

down sometimes is ,you talk about cyprus and it,s peoples like you know everything about us ,and you do not

you have said ,,,not everyone still hates,assuming you know me ,big mistake.



now how about answering the original question ,why do you think so many turkish people speak greek.

and very few gcs speak turkish.



musin



long live the kktc

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 19:42

"We respect every member's right to post his/her opinions, on all issues except ones questioning the legality of TRNC. "

So M6, is the TRNC legal?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 19:57

Dear malsancak



re msg 110



You are little bit 'late' asking THAT Q... My very post thread on here was 'should I be banned ?' ;)



Musin_M re 109



the question you asked was : >>how is it (it is ) TCs speak greek and the gcs (speak no) don't speak turkish.<<



I'll try again.. it isn't true..

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 20:07

mmmmmm



ok ,i will take that as you do not know ,which proves you really do talk nonsense about cypriots.



....i,ll try again it isn,t true... there are no truths or untruths ,just facts ,something you know

nothing about.



how little you know.





musin



long live the kktc

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
01/12/2009 23:09

Mark,



The dark room is vacant now......perhaps a lie down in it may be what you need!!



P.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 00:02

Musin,



Sorry to say, but imo your question to Mark is not really relevant to this dispute. The answer is simple - that's the way that the world goes 'round.



Largest ethnic groups rarely speak a minority language. French is a compulsory subject at canadian school thought outside Quebec very low percentage know how to speak French. The Basques speak their own language and, for very obvious and practical reasons, Spanish or French, Tatars speak Russian, Kurds speak Turkish etc., but not (or very rarely) vice versa...

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 19:58

magbs



it,s very relevant ,go back to marks msg 92 and read it .



he does not know the answer and neither do you .



and please let,s not talk about turkish cypriot,s being a minority and how as a minority

we can get pushed and shoved around by the greeks and told what we can and cannot

do.

yes this thread is about turkey and the eu ,so let,s talk about that ,can turkey enter the eu without

cyprus settlement ..................yes ,and why that,s easy the only people who do not seek a settlement

are the greeks.



the bigger question is ,does turkey really want to join,i,ll let you ponder on that question.



musin



long live the kktc

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 23:37

"Praxandros"

re msg "ALL OF THEM"

I live in LAPTA,I repeat "LAPTA",in a house that has been built on a land owned by "TURKISH CYPRIOT",who was forced out their homes by Greek Cypriots back in 1974,whom were given this land as an exchange of what they had left in their original birth place.

So,simply,while you have been playing "cry baby" to the rest of the world and dreaming ,we have got on with life,so much so that TRNC in recent years has been a very good retirement destination for lots of people from other countries,ie.UK.

BUT;

If you are still so interested in TRNC,I'd love to have you over to this side as a guest and give you the chance to figure out if we can live together or not.

SOMEHOW,I've got a feeling that you'd run back.

As for what went on 30-40-50---------1000 years ago!!!WHO GIVES A SHIT

AND this all from someone that spent his childhood around GCs,

Do yourselves a favour and come back to EARTH

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 08:39

re 96 Waz/ Warren



>>Yes the Turkish influence is very clear .. TC influence has been much diluted. << Well we agree on that ! ;)



>>However, TC respect is very clearly maintained by all, .. <<

I'm sorry, Waz but that's not true..now and to a greeater extent wasn't true in April 2004



You talk of 'shame' and ignore the HUGE breaches of HR committed in TCs names.. against many innocent GCs.



A settlement can only be reached by BOTH sides acknowledging mistakes made and looking to correct them.. as form Outside influence.. you still don't get it ! .. This has always been the problem ;)



This 'isolated incident' illustrates the fact that TCs AREN'T universally 'happy' - and budget cut backs will be a feature.. TCs have to be subsidised heavily by TR to maintain surreality- and TR can't afford it..



Ironically, I have high hopes recession might 'bang' some wise CY heads together.. !