The first world war,second world war,Falklands ,Iraq,Afganisthan,etc

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 01:21

If you sign up for your country surely you expect to be ready to die for your country,

Paul.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 07:35

Paul,

I would think that when they sign up for the forces they do so to defend their country and not to die for it!

Chris

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 07:46

'For Queen and Country' makes a great soundbite but in all honestly it is not what marines, soldiers, sailors and airman fight for. Yes, they understand that they are in war torn areas for a reason but the main reason that they are willing to lay down there lives is not for Queen or the defence of their country, it is for the friends that they fight alongside. Simples !!!



Regards



Paul (Ex Marine)

flowerfairy


Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 1277

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 08:06

good morning Paul, where were you stationed then?

BigMart


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 423

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 12:12

Paul will be stationed in the Cyprus Queen from 1600hrs today !

everon


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 956

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 12:39

I am so proud of my dad!!!! he's a dunkirk veteran, 90yrs old and just bought himself a new car!!!!! in his words "this one is better for your mum, its got a bigger sunroof" mum is 92!! love you mum and dad xx

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 17:50

I prefer to communicate with people who want to live for Europe (and their country). Dead people don't, do they? Anything wrong with that? Awaiting the flak...

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 18:03

Mart



Sorry couldn't make the Cyprus Queen today, got a bit of a dodgy tummy at the mo and feel rough as a badgers proverbial !!



Flowerfairy



Spent most of my career in Plymouth, but also did stints in Taunton, Arbroath and Poole.



Paul

colly


Joined: 31/07/2008
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 18:27

"If you sign up for your country surely you expect to be ready to die for your country"



Puzzled? Is there doubt that those out there are not displaying "ready".



col

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 18:49

Newlad's point is perfectly valid. The tragedy comes when the soldiers are not prepared to die in doing their duty.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1933144.stm

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 20:49

If you join the armed forces you have to be prepared to fight if called upon,no questions asked,wherever your country may send you.It is no god having armed forces and being in NATO if you are going to object everytime you are called upon.If all the blokes who were called uo during WW2 said "No" where would be today.?? It is a sad fact of life that some one is going to die and that will never change where ever there is conflict and we as part of UN.NATO will have to comply.I was in the RAF and was posted to Cyprus with my Squadron ready to attack Russia if they did not back down over the Cuba affair.My eldest daughter also served in the RAF in the 1980s,but she was lucky and was not called upon to take part in any conflict,but she would have done if required. We are no longer an Island,ready to defend against all comers,but part of a global defense system.If you sign on the dotted line you have to accept that it may not be your own country you are defending...

colly


Joined: 31/07/2008
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 20:57

It might be me johnw but did I miss something in the 2002 BBC report on "Dutch Government quits over Srebrenica" as regards to British troops and newlads original post?



Col

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 21:29

DC



You are so sad, if brave men and women had not lost their lives in WW II you probably would not be here.



By the way what were the Crusades that you always go on about????????????????

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 21:31

Hi all,

Please dont take my post the wrong way as i didnt mean it to sound heartless.Every time a member of the armed forces dies in battle my heart goes out to the family.I happen to have personal experience of death from the falklands war so i do know something about it.The point i was making was that unfortunateley death in service goes with the job,

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 21:36

Peter,

Mess 13 not unless we had blonde hair and blue eyes,

Paul.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 21:38

My late father served in WW2 in the British Army. He was conscripted and thus had no choice about it. Because of his age, he was "first in - last out" as a conscripted soldier. He came from a large family and the only brother of his that died was the only one who was a regular. He was my Dad's younger brother and was killed by a German sniper and decorated for his war efforts. There was a post on here recently, from, I believe, an ex-serviceman (please forgive me if I'm wrong) who was, understandably, worried that his grandson (a boy soldier) was due to be sent overseas for a tour of duty. He stated that he had advised his grandson to join the armed forces to "learn a trade". The point I am trying to make, it that you do not, surely, encourage your kith and kin to join the armed forces simply to "learn a trade"? If you join the British Armed Forces (or any other country's armed forces, for that matter) you surely must expect to be called up to fight. continued...

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 21:43

Please, before all the flak starts, I do not agree with our troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, but, the point is, you join up and therefore you MUST be expected to be called upon?



Am waiting for the fall out, but I, for one, am glad that my son did not decide to join-up.



I applaud all our young men and women overseas, but, I must honestly say, I am glad that I am not the mother of one of them.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 21:53

No flak from me Jeannie,well said,

Paul.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 22:51

RE msg 13, lovingcyprus: (...) You are so sad, if brave men and women had not lost their lives in WW II you probably would not be here. By the way what were the Crusades that you always go on about???????????????? (...)

=> My dear friend, I've read your "point" now for about five years on several boards. Tiring. May I ask you what language you would have spoken if Napoléon had succeeded etc? And when William the Conqueror had been beaten? And when etc? And when etc. For your information: this is 2009.

P.S. History, dear friend, is not your cup of tea so why would I bother to teach or tell you about the Crusades?

P.P.S. And please remember: more than one exclamation mark in the English language is an error.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 23:01

Jeannie...None from me either....

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 23:11

Me neither Jeannie.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
02/12/2009 23:34

RE msg 17, Jeannie: (...) but, the point is, you join up and therefore you MUST be expected to be called upon? (...)

=> Jeannie, I'm not sure what you mean to say. The way you write the line above it's a question. If you leave the question mark out, it's a statement. I agree with the statement - IF you are told when you join.

Maybe someone on this board can explain to me how you defend (and die for) your native country (UK, Holland) -- in Afghanistan or Iraq?

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 00:50

Message 22 - Hans.



I stand corrected; your command of the English language (as I have said before) is far superior to mine. I should have left out the question mark.

In response to the last line of your post - I wish someone on this board would explain it to me, too.



Warm regards.



Jean

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 00:50

DC



You are a clown, I haven't been on these forums for 5 years so get your facts right.



I remember a few days ago that you said you haven't picked anyone up for wrong spelling now in two posts on this thread you have, you hypocrite

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 00:59

Hans - returning to post 22. Having re-read both your post and mine.

You say "IF" you are told when you join up. Surely, if you join the Armed Forces, you would take it as read that, should the need occur, you would be expected to fight - whether you believe in the cause or not.

To me, it's rather like saying that if you joined, say, the fire brigade, you might object to actually putting out fires because it was not explained to you (when you enrolled) that you MAY have to fight fires?



Or am I misreading what you are trying to say?



Jean

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 01:17

If you value what you believe in, fight for it.



If you love where you live, fight for it.



If you love your freedom, fight for it.



If you love your mates, fight for them.



If you love a good fight, fight it.



Stay cool, let them come, then fight.



Fanatics, bullies, zealots, psychos, mentalists ..



Face them and fight them with everything, they will crumble.



Their inherent difference from the human norm will be their downfall, Galterie, Saddam, Ceausceau, Milosovic, Hitler, Idi Amin etc



Nothing like a good fight for what is right, the human psyche respects that.



Otherwise, as the meek, the earth will inherit you.



Here endeth the lesson.



Lem

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 08:17

Before this posting turns into its normal 'sniping', I have to agree with Jeannie. Of course if you sign up to join the Armed Forces you expect to be called upon to fight wherever the UK government wishes to send you. On joining the Armed Forces, every recruit goes through a ceremony called attestation during which you swear allegiance to the Crown and promise to defend it whenever and wherever the government sees fit.



It is also worth noting that whilst warfighting is a dirty and frightening business, it is also the ultimate test of your training and the belief in your capabilities as a marine, soldier, sailor or airman. Just about every member of the military will want to do active service at some point and I know a number of people who having completed operational tours in Afghanistan, couldn't wait to go back. As the saying goes, 'you never feel more alive than when you have been close to death'.



Paul

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 08:28

DutchCrusader



You said "P.S. History, dear friend, is not your cup of tea so why would I bother to teach or tell you about the Crusades?"



You asked "Maybe someone on this board can explain to me how you defend (and die for) your native country (UK, Holland) -- in Afghanistan or Iraq?"



Well, these matters are clearly not your cup of tea so why should anyone bother to explain them to you

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 08:40

RE msg 28, JohnW: (...) Well, these matters are clearly not your cup of tea so why should anyone bother to explain them to you (...)

=> Harlequin, what an interesting answer. Or is it a question?

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 09:14

DutchCrusader



Sorry, but I haven't time to sit on here all day reading your pedantry.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedant

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 15:30

I joined the RAF to get a trade which I did,but that was secondary to the fact that I was there to fight for my Queen and Country, when and where ever that may be.Luckily for me I was only called on once and that was not an actual shooting war,just a lot of posturing between to big mouths,USA and RUSSIA..

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 15:43

Double Dutch and double standards if you ask me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One point i would like to make RESPECT to all those brave British soldiers fighting in foreign countries, called upon to do their duty for queen and country. I only hope they return home safely to their families having done their tour of duty, I can only imagine what it must be like being away from loved ones while at the same time trying to stay alive A thought for the day perhaps????

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 22:20

In several posts: "For Queen and country"? Don't make me laugh. A "queen" is someone by birth (and hence it's medieval and utterly undemocratic). "Country"? 95% of the board members are from an EU member state. "For Queen and Country"? - Wake up, you old fashioned people. This is 2009. It's the EU and a democratically elected head of state. Away with kings and queens and all nationalistic, dangerous rubbish. Think different, think Europe.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 22:39

Not being pedantic but I think you'll find that 95% of the board members are from an ancient country (That has been invasion free for nearly 1.000 years) with a history of its own and a system of government and law that laid the foundations for modern democracy. As for a democratically elected head of state, fair enough in so far as the US, France, Germany et al have elected heads of state, but when did the citizens of the glorious democratic EUSSR vote for the nonentity that has just been placed in that position by Merkel and Sarkozy?



As for Queen and country, If you ever find yourself in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Bermuda, and various West Indian and Pacific nations take a look at the badges worn by the police and armed forces. I think you'll find they are topped off with a crown.



The British one.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 22:52

You know I have read all the comments and whilst I agree with all points. Is this war about our queen and country NO.We pay the price to stop pakistan, taliban whomever. It will never be ours. To me its another Vietnam. No one wins. Of couse my heart bleeds for our very brave men and women who signed up to serve thier country, god knows I have a niece and nephew serving there. Mu guess Obhama will win x

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
03/12/2009 23:07

DutchCrusader



You obviously can't grasp the concept. You never will, so just stop harping on about it. It is of no consequence that this entirely "British" concept makes you laugh. Your predisposition to attack what you don't understand is what is truly laughable. You will never understand the British Constitution so just give it a rest. Neither will you ever understand the Engish or Englishness. You may have a rudimentary and mechanical grasp of the language but in the end that is useless to you as every time you launch yourself into one of your diatribes you just demostrate your underlying ignorance.



By the way, the EU does not have a democratically head of state.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
04/12/2009 01:57

Message 36

Spot on every word, This DC who speaks english and that's it, that gives him the right to poke fun at our British identity. The man is an idiot his rantings lacking fact and substance it beggars belief, i find his approach to be insulting but hey maybe that's the game he likes to play maybe he get's some perverse european gratification from it...................

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
04/12/2009 02:10

Blackpoolfan - I think you'll agree that it's very rarely that we agree about stuff; however, having said that, and, having met Hans Doelman (who I find to be a very interesting person), I find your message 37 very pertinent. I do not think the man is an idiot (far from it) but, I have to admit I find his stance on this puzzzling.



PS Hans, I did ask you whether I misunderstood your message - you have yet to reply?

Checkmate


Joined: 31/08/2008
Posts: 140

Message Posted:
04/12/2009 02:45

"EU democratically elected????" Cant re-call voting for a Belgiuqe Leader.



D.C. we all know its 2009, but whats makes diffrent is we will NEVER forget the past!!!!

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
04/12/2009 03:05

Message 38,

I have not met the man, you find him interesting that's fine an opinion or judgement to which you are perfectly entitled. I can only judge from what he scribes of which i take issue with, his stance is not puzzling its insulting and without fact. But hey i would take issue with anything i don't agree with or i have an opinion about,the crux is then whether the indivuiduals can conduct a civilised factual based debate without over reacting or jumping on the soap box. Some you win, some you lose, some you just don't waste ones time in getting into an argument.............

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
04/12/2009 06:04

Re msg 33.



Its our Queen, I certainly don't near to hear any Gin swilling, Dike plugging, clog tapping Britaphobic Dutchman running our Royal family down.

Be very careful, very careful indeed Sad Crusader you have touched on a subject that will make us all unite.

We may be able to criticise our Royal Family but certainly you cant.

Just remember if it wasn't for us you may have had swap your clogs for jackboots.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
04/12/2009 07:40

Hippo,

Absolutely right!

We don't want any Johnny Foreigners criticizing oue German / Greek BRITISH Royal family!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
04/12/2009 11:31

Many of my known "friends" are united in this thread! And as usual it's name calling, ridiculing and what have you. Well done, gentlemen, the UK should be proud of you - although I don't give a d*mn what some of you say in this thread. My point is and remains that royal families are medieval and that kings and queens should not be the head of state by birth. Nowhere.

P.S. Message 42 by Keith Caley made me laugh - if that is permitted by the UK lovers living in Northern Cyprus..?

P.P.S. I won't reply to new messages in this thread, so go ahead, "friends". (Jeannie you'll get an answer, but I'm rather busy showing a Dutch friend the treasures of Northern Cyprus - I'll reply later today or tomorrow).

Long live the TRNC (independent and recognised, independent-recognised and a member state of the EU or as part of Turkey).

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
04/12/2009 20:59

DC..We have had a monarchy since the year dot and I believe we will continue to have one.Most of our monarchy come from various countries,including your own,but that has never really bothered us.Nowadays monarchies a just figurehead,something traditional,historic and thats why the Yanks and other countries love to see her.Why.Because they have not got one.Our royal family generate millions for our government,some will dispute that ,and long may they do so.What does the Dutch Royal family generate for there country?? I bet a lot of people in EU dont even know there is Dutch Royal family.As you say long live the TRNC,LIKEWISE LONG LIVE OUR QUEEN...

littlejohn


Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316

Message Posted:
05/12/2009 01:54

DC with comments as in message 41 I really do not know why you bother. Your comments are quite rational !!

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
05/12/2009 03:02

Dutch Crusader, I assume you want to rid the Nederlands of Queen Beatix (spelling). Her birthday being one of the most celebrated days of the year. Probably why your in TRNC, because its a republic.



Queen Liz II is still head of state for about a third of the world. ( I think) I don't know of any country where the queen is head of state that have democratically decided to remove her. I have read recently that a few countries actually want to join the commonwealth.

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
05/12/2009 07:27

Its windmills and tulips and mice on the stair

For Holland and the Sad Crusader I don't give a care



The EC's is just the same, lack of human rights they claim

So its Turkey that's gets the blame.



Now we all now that Britain is best

Even if we have more immigrants than flees in a tramps vest.



So My Crusader just watch your nose

Insults to Britain we just don't like those.