Back to the drawing board!!!!!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 16:20

hi guys

i did not want to sound like i was being negative but i did say to the members these talks today would go nowhere and i have just read the two joint statments they could not agree on a date to start talks on a soultion (if their will ever be a soultion)

they did say thou they would meet again at the end of june to see how the committee has got on, but they did say they were thinking about opening another crossing the Yesilirmak gate (which i said they would in my past posts)

they also said they remain commited to a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant security council resolution

the partnership will have a federal government with a single international personality, as well as a turkish cypriot constituent state and a greek cypriot constituent state, which will be of equal status they said!!!



but in my view i wonder if the south actually really agreed to this equal status bacause in the past they havent and if they really thought that a solution in the way of unification will happen this side of 2008 why are they looking to open more gates wont the gates automatically open anyway if unfication is reached

like i said i dont want to sound negative but once again this is going round in circles and dont think nothing will come out of these regualer meetings other than having good relations for the future of two seperate states which i really hope for

warm regards

ukturk

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 17:12

As usual Greeks will drag this out as long as possible as they seem to be happy with the situation as it is. I will be very suprised if there will ever be be solution as the two sides have widely differing ideas of a just solution.



Hope we are not debating these same subjects in 30 years time.



Biker

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 17:22

hi biker

well our parents have been discussing this for the last 30 years so it would not surprise me that our grandchildren will be discussing it in the next 30 years



in my view they should all sit down with turkey-greece and the u.k being mediators and the north and the south should put a time frame on this, if they cant come to a agrement by this date then they should go their seperate ways and be amicable about it two seperate states working together reconising each other doing trade with each other but run by two seperate governments because like i said before to much has gone on to heal and repair old wounds polictally or civilley so we should get over the spilt milk and look at the future and the bigger picture for the cypriot people north and south

warm regards

ukturk

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 17:43

I absolulety agree UkTurk.

As it happens what is the point of forcing two communities who have different language, religion, nationality and also a history of unrest between them to live as one.

This never worked in any other country and it will not work here. We see many examples in Europe, like the Serps, Kosovans and the others who tried to get along as Yugoslavia. We can see what has happened there.

Nice to talk to someone who is realistic.

Cheers

Biker

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 19:49

Hi all,

Taken from todays meeting,



"They reaffirmed their commitment for a bi-zonal federation with political equality, as defined by the relevant security council resolutions.This partnership will have a federal government with a single international personality,as well as a Turkish Cypriot constituent state and a Greek Cypriot consituent state.Which will be of equal status.



Do you honestly believe that the greek cyps would allow the turk cyps to be on a level with them.I personally dont think so.What is meant by a single international personality.Would it mean that the island would be governed by a federal leader like the united states is.I reckon the leader would be of Greek origin and therefore favour the greek policies.



Im with Biker and Erkan on this one free the north completeley of their shackles but give them a fair deal or it will go on that long Liverpool will have won a premiership title and Spurs the european cup lol,

Have a great looooonnngg week-end,

Regards,

Paul.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 19:51

what a sad state of affairs , but not unexpected , as you say erkan , its just going on and on , but what hope is there ? if they can't even set a date for talks !!

erkan , hope you and your family are keeping well

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 20:47

Hi Pat,

Hope you are well.There is a date set and its June 21 (the longest day)watch this space,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 20:54

Hi ukturk,



Early days. No one puts their cards on the table so early on in a negotiation.



Excellent article by Tansel Fikri in The Cyprus Star newspaper Page 16 in 16th May edition.



Sounds a rational basis for negotiation to me.



The mediators haven't even been involved at this stage. They are just listening.



Have a good weekend,



wynyardman

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 20:57

Wynard,

Any idea who Tansel Fikri is i have done some research but drawn a blank.No mention of black puddings either,

keep smiling,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 21:28

Paul,



He must eat Black Pudding to write such an in depth article, with such passion.



It might be Efes though!



wyn

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 22:06

hi wynyardman

like you said its early days but if you know what the south are trying to negotiate these policies were used over 30 years ago when they tried to resolve the situation back then and it did not work, so how do you expect it to work in todays envioment when so much has changed and you say no one puts their cards down on the table this early on i dont really belive that

because if both sides are so desperate to resolve this situation its time to put a end of the playing games and the dangling carrots and if the north were playing games they would not have accepted the annan plan if you would have read this plan it would have given the south more rights than the north plus it would have given the south back major towns back in their hands so if thats not laying your cards down then i dont know what is and if the south was not playing around they would have accepted this plan but they said no and their reward for this full membership into the e.u which is a blatant breach of international treaties and international laws they also knew then they would be in a stonger postion to dictate to the north what they are going to accept and not and the north being not reconised they would think they would accept anything to come in from the wilderness which is not the case we have sacarficed again and again just for a bit of the pie and it is still not good enough



not sure what you mean about the mediators but the commitees for both sides has been discussing and negotiating since both leaders met and on one side talat said they have been progressing then the south leader says they are not going nowhere if they cant agree on such a simple thing like that how can they agree on the major things!!!! at the end of the day if ever the both countries do unite it has to be on 50/50 basis and both sides share the power (do you honestly think the greeks will accept that) otherwise we will have another 1960's situation where the turks were treated like second class citizens and this will turn in to intercommunal fighting!!!!

you say about tansel fikri being rational take a look at his latest article on the whole thing then tell me what you think

http://www.starkibris.net/international/index.asp?haberID=149



also guys take a look at another one of his pieces this guy says it all in a nutshell

http://www.starkibris.net/international/index.asp?haberID=473

warm regards to you all

ukturk



p.s paul tansel fikri is a international writer for the starkibris which is part of the star media group which owns the star paper in turkey aswell as the star tv channel he speaks many languages and has studied in the u.k his views are unbiased and very true but he has been accused of being one sided him being a turk but he is respected among many writters on the international scene

this is another one of his pieces

http://www.starkibris.net/international/index.asp?haberID=208

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
23/05/2008 23:57

now now paul dont bring our scouse and southern brothers into this . this disscusion is a serious one about a serious issue . . . . but i must agree by the time its sorted liverpool may have won the prem . . . . hope not tho LOL andrew

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
24/05/2008 00:45

Hi ukturk,



Firstly I am indebted to you for the articles of Tansel Fikri, and the precis of information that you have kindly provided on him.



Having read these further 3 articles, I remain of the opinion that his very strongly held opinions form a rational basis for a solution to the Cyprus Problem. There surely cannot be a lasting peace as long as such injustice remains. He argues that the injustices that he so eloquently identified in his articles, should be rectified as a prerequisite to the current issues that are on the table. This he argues would be nescessary as the basis for a lasting peace. I wholly concur with his views, also his opinions as to how a satisfactory solution should be

negotiated.



There is clearly much at stake at the present time but we would be wrong to underestimate

the international need to find a satisfactory solution. There will be enormous pressure put on both sides, not to mention incentives that will no doubt be put forward by the EEC.



There surely can be no going back on the 1974 solution which has been the basis of 34 years of peace. This leaves you with a two state solution unified under a representative

Government. Full compensation for land and property lost, where swapped lands did not provide an adequate solution,no doubt funded by a pot of money provided by the International community.



Then there is the thorny question of water supplies for the island. Given that current forecasts of global warming, leave the island of Cyprus as a desert, something must be done.The proposed pipeline from Turkey could be built in 2 years. The infrastructure is already in place to accept it. The option of tankers from the mainland whether it be from Greece or Turkey, cannot be the basis of a long term viable solution. Such an incentive possibly provided and paid for by the EEC would be a very valuable tool to help ratchet a solution, or put another way, oil the wheels of an agreement.



I readily accept that these opinions are those of an outsider with a limited knowledge of the Cyprus problem, but I think the arms length view that I have, gives me an advantage because my opinions are not inhibited by the emnity of the two sides, who have to carry such painful memories. If there is to be a way forward these matters must be put to one side, although of course will in many cases never be forgotten or forgiven.



The International community is determined to resolve the problems and emnities that so dog the region. Israel is now talking peace with the Syrians and Tony Blair is committed to helping to find a solution to the Palestinian problem. Alongside these the Cyprus problem fades into insignificance.



Cyprus as an island is already in the EEC. For the North to be bought in is but a small step forward in the grand plan of things. As Tansel Fikri has so correctly identified North Cyprus and the Turkish Cypriot community have been very shabbily treated by the International community since 1974 and the time is now for these injustices to be rectified.



I remain optimistic of a satisfactory solution. With hotel occupation of 30% and thousands more hotel rooms currently under construction, someone else clearly holds a similar opinion.

Direct flights and International recognition are not far away.



Good luck to the Cypriot peoples!



wynyardman

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
24/05/2008 00:54

Wun,

i raise a glass of Efes to you.



Erkan, lets see what comes out of the 21st June. You have strong views that time has not been kind to the cypriots of the north which are totally valid.



The good friday agreement in Stormont in Ireland was thought never possible.



you and your people deserve to be able to hold your heads up as equal citizens to all as in my parents country.



What a beautiful Island.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
24/05/2008 01:29

Wyn,

Positive post Mr optimistic you put me at ease and i respect you for that,



Keep smiling,

Paul.

The Wizard


Joined: 21/05/2008
Posts: 10

Message Posted:
24/05/2008 10:02

I hope this does not drag on for another 30 years, I wonder if this site had been up and running before the referendum and borders opened that we would be discussing another 30 years for that to have happened, I think that like most politics it is very unpredictable, and I am sure that if the Turkish and Greek National Guard buggered off during the night and the UN went and spent the tax payers money doing something more constructive than flying a helicopter up and down the Old City "green line" in Cyprus, then just maybe everyone would get on just fine, we would still have the hard line xenophobic fantatics to deal with but again thats the same worldwide.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
24/05/2008 11:25

hi guys

we have to be postive but its very hard being optimistic when my people have been in international wilderness for over 40 years and always have turkey to blame for them coming to help the cypriot people not just the turkish the greeks too but due to propaganda the turks are always to blame

but not a lot of people know this but it was the turks who brought the syrian and israeli people together to sort out peace and this happened in istanbul with many meetings, so the turks know how to negotiate peace so they cant be accused they dont know how to because if they can bring jews and muslims together to the peace table you would have thought they can bring the greeks to the table to resolve this long standing issue lets hope so!!!!!



i just wish one way or the other either it be two seperate states or unification they just get on with it get it sorted and stop playing games cos at the end of the day the only people who are suffering in my eyes are the turkish cypriots not the greeks cos they are already reconised thru the e.u and on the international scene while the turks are living in the same house as the greeks but their side of the house has all the lights turned off so they cant see and no one can see them

regards to all and have a nice weekend

ukturk

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
24/05/2008 12:14

ukturk,



Don't underestimate the powers of persuasion of the international community,against which the will of the Greeks is miniscule.

A divided Cyprus is a blight on the EEC family of nations.

The plight of The Turkish Cypriots in now moreso accepted than in the past.

The Queen has just spent 3 days in Turkey (a nod and a wink ,if not outright acceptance)

Water......an EEC member state, that cannot quench the thirst of its citizens?

The strategic importance of having Turkey on board, as a buffer between East and West.

The strategic importance of Cyprus, in the area, and its value as a whole to the EEC.

I feel the biggest problem you face, could be a botched attempt at reunification. 1974

bought 34 years of peace. What is required is 2 independant states under a representative Government, as an integrated part of the EEC. You have much going for you.!

Interesting articles in this weeks Cyprus Star,quite optomistic actually.

Our best wishes to you all.

Good Luck,

Wyn