British Airways Cabin Crew Strike 22 Dec - 2 Jan

Traveller0392


Joined: 21/03/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 16:57

Just on the News ...



Voted in favour to stage strike over the Xmas Holidays. ... Time to change travel arrangements.

Mindy



Joined: 27/10/2008
Posts: 1210

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 17:01

They certainly pick their moments



Going to affect at least 1 million travellers.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 17:05

See flights 2009 / 2010 thread this was posted earlier

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 18:01

They wont be able to go on strike when they have priced themselves out of a job

Traveller0392


Joined: 21/03/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 18:41

Question for 'Flightholiday'



How does a company with debts in the region of 10 of millions ... coming up to their 2nd busiest time of the year ... face a dilemma like this .....? in other words what is Plan B?



For the agents, it will be a busy time to reschedule dates and flights, but for the overall image of BA... I think this is the nail in the proverbial coffin.... another example was the Royal Mail ... the fact that they lost so much of their business as a result of the strike.



What are the alternatives for Travellers?

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 19:18

Msg 5



I am not in that lucrative part of the travel trade so I cant answer for it. But the plan B is rather not in their hands.



A lot of these large companies (especialy ex nationalisation ones) can not be seen to shrink for morale reasons so it is sink or sink if they cant make it happen. They have large pension plans they have historicaly paid well and have to continue doing so - the EU and unions are always demanding higher levels of safety etc etc for staff and clients the cost of which comes from their high charges to the clients. (The sad joke is that many safety concerns are legal cover not true H&S and it means that people are less self safety aware.)



The unions aim below the belt as they don't want to see the commercial reality of cost/staff reduction etc.



Agents will not profit from it there will be no seats to buy for them or their passengers. So they will pay more costs for no business and even more will close their doors = loss of another service to you.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 21:15

Would any of you like to have 12 days over Xmas with no money.This was not a decision taken lightly.92.5% of the staff have voted for it,so there is a bit more to this than the company is saying.Todays unions are not kike they used to be 10yrs ago,they are more up to date with companies situations than the company is. Quite often its the managers who are living in the past and really do not know how to get themselves out of the hole they have dug.There is as much threat and intimidation from management nowadays as there is from Unions.Sometimes it is that one dare not and the other will not change.To suddenly tell there staff that they are bringing in compulsary changes with out discussions is asking for trouble.I wonder if the management are going to accept the same sort of changes that they are expecting from there staff. They did not want to bring in changes when they were making 1 billion profit 2yrs ago.If the firm does go under it will be just as much the fault of the management.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 21:22

Brilliant left wing strategy by the Unions, bring down the company. That'll show the managers!

Sideways



Joined: 21/01/2009
Posts: 529

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 21:40

Coachie,

There are a lot of BA staff in other departments that have already accepted this offer and have taken redundances, it's only the cabin crew that voted, not the whole work force. They were not suddenly told about it, as the other departments had accepted it. Vitually everyone at Heathrow (not just BA) has taken pay freezes or cuts to keep their jobs.

Now lets see someone to this to CTA.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 21:43

hector..how come you think the union is trying to bring down the company when in actual fact they have suggested cut backs more than the company have suggested.Obviously some one who thinks that every one should toff their cap when they go work and say thank you for employing me.They should take a leaf out of the Japanese way of thinking.They consider their most important asset is their workforce.In this country if a firm starts to lose money start sacking the workers when in reality half the ruddy managers ought to be sacked. I worked for a firm for 23years and they decided to shut us down in favour of another company in the organisation.We regularly made £30million profit for the parent company,the other shower were lucky to break even each year,where is the logic in that. after the first 6months of operations they had succeeded in loosing £12million pounds of business and to date they are just managing to keep their heads above water,so stop living in the past like BA are.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 21:55

Side ways..Sorry I should have stated that it was cabin crew I was referring to.I am aware that this problem has been going on for some time,but it is not all the cabin crews fault.Sugestions have been put forward but have just been pushed aside as if to say we do not need you to tell us how to run our business.It makes them look incompetant if they were to accept the unions suggestions. Some of the people in the top union positions nowadays have quite a few qualifications and we deal with some of the best legal companies in England.I was shop steward for quite a few years in my last job and in 23 yrs we never once had a strike,simply because we had a management team we could talk to and we both respected each others positions.As long as BA do not want to listen then they will get what they are heading for..

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 22:10

Worst time to do it, I have no sympathy, Brit Airways are known as one of the best to work for and many companies in the UK are having to cut back same with the rest of the world action like this puts the companies into further trouble and will only lead to further cuts, greed and inflexibility from the unions who guide the workforce. Get real times are hard, the company is loosing 1000£ per minute and the Union says hit it when they feel it the most.

paddywack


Joined: 04/05/2009
Posts: 959

Message Posted:
14/12/2009 22:20

Look what happened to the national newspaper industry,the unions were intransigent,now there are not any unions to speak of,but the news proprietorsare are still making money.

rigsby


Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 912

Message Posted:
15/12/2009 13:07

Did anyone see the difference in salaries between BA and Virgin cabin crew? £29k+ for BA £18k for Virgin !!

Traveller0392


Joined: 21/03/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
15/12/2009 15:25

Hi Sideways, Hector and Coachie,



A split in opinions? ... I would be interested to ask Coachie, when he was shop steward, how they managed to avoid a strike in all his time .... although you say, it was with a 'good working relationship with the management'



The BA staff are paid a fortune compared to Virgin's cabin crew and the price of their tickets is completely different too .... in this day and age, it makes you wonder why people are using BA compared to Virgin with lots of companies cutting back on travel to save costs. The staff are citing the management as trying to implement measures and blame it on the recession .... what I cannot understand ... is how do they make billions one year and a loss of 400 million the next? ... IS this a case of 'bad management' or simply the recession and if it is the recession, why do they not see it coming?



Lastly, what will happen to the merger with Iberia?... that one hasn't been mentioned and it was all the news last mont

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/12/2009 19:30

traveller0392..I was a shop steward in1990 and finished in 1998,but there were other chaps before me from1975 .We were paid more than the average but we did not try to kill the golden goose,but by the same token we were not prepared to give up what had been freely negotiated, when things got a little difficult.Most of our cut backs being due to natural wastage and no further recruitment.If the staff at Virgin want to work those sort of un sociable hours for that sort of money then that is there problem.If BA cabin crew do get the dort of money that has been mention on here,they damn well deserve it with the hours they have to work.They do not work 9-5you know.On average crews are working 10hrs aday and the company wants them to work longer for less.They even worked for two months with no pay to help out,but BA did not appreciate that for one moment.Its about time Mr.Walsh woke up and started to earn his salary,which I have no doubt will not be affected by this crisis

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
15/12/2009 20:06

BA should tell its staff turn up for work or your fired !!!



BA can do this by declaring their company insolvent which to all intents and purposes it is.



They would only have to pay the minium redundancy payment required by law.#







Then they would be free to refloat the company hiring workers who want to work at the going rate !!!

Sideways



Joined: 21/01/2009
Posts: 529

Message Posted:
15/12/2009 22:24

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6818319/BA-seeks-injunction-to-stop-Christmas-strike.html



Personally I hope BA win.



I worked at Heathrow for over 25 years (not for BA) but I had lot of friends at BA and I know what they get, wages, perks, etc.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/12/2009 23:13

Karakum5c..There were laws brought in by Mrs Thatcher to curtail the activities of wild cat strike action.Unions had to follow the rule of law which they have done right down the line,before they can call for a ballot on strike action.The union has abided by the laws of the land and you still want to see BA fire them. Its people like you and the rest of the union haters who get up my nose.If it was not for the trade unions the average worker out there would be working for peanuts or is that what you want.Had bad experience somewhere down the line have we?? If the unions were not in existance I hate to think what the terms and conditions of Britains workers would be like,probably the same as India ,Pakistan and any other sweat box country you can think of.Its 21st century we live in ,not the 19th.People are entitled to be treated with respect by there employers not as a piece of garbage that you can throw away when you have no further need of it.BA should thank God they are not in Franc

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
15/12/2009 23:36

We are in a world wide recession with 10s of millions of people losing their jobs and sometimes their homes !!



A highly paid group of workers want to go on strike at christmas leaving 1 million people stranded and with the knock on effect of ruining millions of people christmas---- many of them children !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



This is the season of goodwill ?



The union just lost big style and they havnt even formed a picket line.

littlejohn


Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 02:00

Nice to see the workers backing the workers (not) as usual.

We are advancing backwards to oblivion thanks to Thatcher and the morons who continue to back her 80s policies.

Bring back the workhouse, little boys up chimneys and the ducking stool I say.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 02:20

I am with karakum5c all the way on this. My husband is due to lose his job after Christmas - through no fault of his own, and yet these people are striking (at the busiest time of the year) when they are on a bloody good salary (plus perks).



Rightly or wrongly, there are millions of people chasing jobs out there (I will not mention the Labour government) and the Trade Unions are (again) determined to bring another part of our industry down.



Remember the miners, the dockers, the print workers - most underworked and overpaid - the unions did well by them (not). Why don't they stop thinking that the part is bigger than the whole?

Texas


Joined: 22/09/2009
Posts: 634

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 09:59

A message from BA.



http://www.britishairways.com/travel/statement/public/en_gb

NanaJan



Joined: 15/10/2009
Posts: 90

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 15:23

On top of the salaries they get flights for 10% of the price for the rest of us and get treated very well on those flights by their fellow workers. Having regularly flown from Jeddah to London with them I have often been sitting with off duty staff who have always had excellent treatment.



They used to stay in one of the best hotels in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia and were taken on a bus each day to the beach whilst on their down time for rest which was often four days or so. Free meals, uniform, medical care and the like and then the long haul cabin crew would often do seven days on and seven days off as well. The one I chatted to only had to have child care two weeks per month and yet was on a full time salary.



Sorry then I do not have any sympathy with them spoiling the general publics travel plans who may be going home to family or on a long awaited break at the most special time of the year. Sack the lot of them and bring in people who would be very happy to work for such per

Sideways



Joined: 21/01/2009
Posts: 529

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 17:33

Sky News' inbox, and other chatrooms and forums, are buzzing with dissent. Some BA staffers have even cancelled their union membership in protest at the strike call.



'BobbyGlitz' emailed us his thoughts: "I am crew for BA and I do not support the strike!! Do not tar us all with the same brush. Many of the people at BA who are prepared to bring this airline down are the most lazy, rude and greedy crew that I fly with !!!"



"My wife has just lost her job and now my union expects me to strike ... Please get round the table and look at the bigger picture, I WILL NOT BE FORCED TO STRIKE!!"



Another staffer, 'Paul' came straight to the point via email: "Today I'm ashamed to be a BA staff member (non crew) and I've already canx [cancelled] my Unite membership."



The working practices which have so angered the union are already in place for BA crews at Gatwick Airport. The staff there deeply unhappy at being dragged into a strike just because the Heathrow crews won't follow suit.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 17:34

This is not the unions telling the members to strike,that is illegal.A ballot has one question and TWO answers,YES or NO, tick the appropriate box. Therefore it is the Membership who are telling the Union what they want,which is the way it should be.In Mr walsh,s message he says Unite agreed to the changes at Gatwick.It was the membership who agreed and the union went along with that decision,obviously having seen what has gone on at Gatwick the Heathrow cabin crew must have some other grievances to vote for a strike.Picking the particular time of year they have chosen is to force Mr Walsh,who is no stranger to confrontations,to carry on talking,which they have eventually decided to do this afternoon AFTER they have been to court and assuming they are going to get their order. He obviously likes to play cards with a stacked deck,and fifth ace up his sleeve,crying to the public about the upset it will cause them. Try being a cabin steward if you think the job is easy....

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 17:44

Coachie I agree its not an easy job, but in my days of cabin crew the perks were better than any other airline. Flight pay, overseas allowences and commision plus the overnight stays which were paid all the time you were out of the country away from your base. Strikes were never an option then xx

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 17:49

Hi Liz - as you know, I have a friend who used to work as cabin crew for BA and she concurs with everying you say.



Hope you enjoyed your trip - speak v. soon.



J

xxx

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 17:49

as my old uncle percy would say..



"they dough deserve jobs, lazy bu**ers".....

Cobbler


Joined: 15/11/2009
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 18:40

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the matter for airline crews to strike at Christmas demonstrates utter contempt for the passengers. Selfish bast..ds, I will never fly BA again. The cheer that went up when the ballot result was announced was a slap in the face for all the BA's customers.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 18:56

Nanajan

4 days off after one flight to jeddah .So they fly from London and it takes 4 days before a BA flight returns on which they can work. Jeddah is long haul and you say they do week on week off,tho never heard of that .Therefore they go out one day take 4 days off, thats five days then the sixth day fly home.Thats their week up so they get a week off.!

You are right, thats shocking ,14 hours in a fortnight.Would any stewardess on here care to defend that.



Just one point ,did you expect them to be treated badly on their cheap flights.?Which in most airlines they only get a seat if any left over after all passengers booked in.





It looks like most on here think BA staff should take a pay cut to get them down to the lowest paying airlines.I trust those that suggest that wouldnt mind that doctrine applied to themselves.Is that not what communism is all about.

I moved around in my own industry to better myself .Guess enterprise and incentive only applies to bankers and MP

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 19:31

Message 31 cont.



Sorry stewardesses ,just had an ear bashing. The 3 to 4 days off does apply ,but normally if you have worked 7 -10 days straight including rest period.



I do agree that its bad to strike at Christmas, but as has been said, 93% for action suggests real anger,and I would suggest thereis more to this than meets the eye.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
16/12/2009 23:09

Girne I think you are right. I have spoken to my friends who still work for the airline. There is such discontent. You are correct about the working days it was hard but the days away were great for relaxing.Also whenever we took a 10 per cent it was on a standby basis. Only twice in my 12 years I was refused but due to recipocial agreements with other airlines you could get a flight. Cobbler I agree with you also the timing is holding customers to ransom as well as the airline. Willy Walsh should take some serious action now and I do not think the majority of crews would want this. They want and need thier jobs and thier pensions

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
17/12/2009 17:47

lilli..Strike action of any sort in any industry will affect people in some sort or another.They are not doin g it to make the public suffer,it is being done to get MrWalsh and his team to talk .Mr.Walsh prefers to go to court and get an injunction and then talk.So you see there are TWO protagonists here not just one.Globespan have just gone bust and that was not the fault of the high wages they paid their staff.??? If there are supposed to be 1,000,000, passengers being put at risk what sort of money do you think that is? Probably more than enough to meet their current wage bill etc etc.Virgin may not get as much as BA staff but that is reflected in the service you get.Flew with them twice and the food and service by the cabin staff was rubbish.They no doubt get their perks as well Lilli.This business about them working two days a week is absolute cr..p.Ive spoken to crews on some of the other airlines and found out that quite often they they get off one plane and then onto an other..

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
17/12/2009 18:12

British Airways strike - cancelled - High Court decision to impose an injunction.



Mrs Justice Cox at the High Court in London this afternoon.



BA challenged the ballot of its cabin crew - alleging that the process contained "serious and substantial irregularities".



The airline claimed that about 1,000 members balloted had since left the airline, their votes should not have been counted



According to one of the trade journals

artistabroad


Joined: 06/07/2009
Posts: 104

Message Posted:
17/12/2009 18:54

According to the Guardian, unless there are wildcat strikes, the strike is definitely off after the High Court ruling that the ballot to strike was illegal. If the union decides to hold another ballot it'll take at least two weeks to organise, which leaves the festive season in the clear.