Interesting Comment TC Vs. GC Economist Article - What do you think?

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
19/12/2009 20:59

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15065921



"The initial Cyprus problem was defined differently by the two sides.



The Greeks believed that Cyprus belonged to them and the problems was forcing the Turks out or killing them.



For the Turks the problem was the Greeks tyring to kill or force them out.



That problem was solved by the 1974 war. The Greeks now live in peace among themselves and the Turks are secure behind 30000 Turkish mainland troops.



So now the definition of the problem has changed.



For the Turks it is the ruthless economic embargo installed by the Christian powers to force them to emigrate and leave the island to the Greeks.



For the Greeks it is the 30000 Turkish troops preventing them from forcing the Turks out.



They can negotiate till kingdom come. The two points are simply irreconcilable."



Comment by: Fahrettin Tahir



What do you think?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
19/12/2009 21:02

i think he is right they can never live together. Its so very long now. Solution I do not know. We all have our opinion on what we would like xx

winslow


Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 332

Message Posted:
19/12/2009 21:52

As İ have said on the other tread on this article...

İ am sorry to say a lot of this article and others that are being written in the same vain recently are quite patronising to both sides. There seems to be only one alternative being pushed forward you must all reach agreement and all join the EU and live happilly ever after all and all with this undertone of blackmail. That if there is no agreement the four horseman of the apocalypse are going to ride in as in revelations destroy us all and take over. This is a foriegn perspective and unrelatable to the present consensus of the people on both sides as recents polls are showing. İ respect some of the arguments put forward and there are benefits. But we are two peoples and no matter however you try to gloss it over we cannot reside together. Two men from the same political background ‘do not a nation make’.

con..

winslow


Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 332

Message Posted:
19/12/2009 21:53

There are alternatives there is not just this one way, one measure just this one final chance? Why are they not considering what the people want. When people on this side voted against Talats government there was reason it was not just economics. There was a reason we voted 'hardline nationalists', and went right wing and that was simply that not everybody desires reunification and not everybody feels or cares about this sense of urgency on both sides and the Annan plan is still a sore point.

Other alternatives and views should be disucssed more openly within this context more publically. İ know im not the only one and it is not acceptable to portray those opposing it to be made out to be fighting democracy. True democracy is the will and desire of the majority of the people and not the desire of the few who want their aspirations to succeed for there own political and personal goals. The facts are simple and don’t need to be complicated any further thats how these problems bega

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
19/12/2009 21:59

Winslow - I agree

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
19/12/2009 22:12

As I said on another thread - the last paragraph says it all.



If these talks fail, another chance is unlikely to arise for years. Turkey’s EU hopes would be crushed. And Europe’s aspirations for a bigger role in the world would be dented: if it cannot solve a dispute in its own back yard, how can it do much elsewhere? The stakes in Cyprus in the next few weeks could hardly be higher.

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
19/12/2009 22:21

Stakes are high....so what's the betting on a settlement for which both sides will vote yes?



Two chances I would say....



1. Slim chance



2. No chance



Or am I too pessimistic?

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
19/12/2009 22:24

No i agree and slim's out of town

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
19/12/2009 23:55

Given the views of many people. We must therefore consider other possible outcomes or developments of the Cyprus problem.

If the talks fail. Talat may well lose the presidency next April. Turkish aspiration for EU status will become severely less likely. Turkey will invevitablly get into bed with the East and relations with Europe will become strained. European and indeed American influence in the critical eastern mediteranean will be weakened and the threat from the East will become more acute and more difficult to combat, given that Turkey holds the geographical trump cards.

Sovereign bases in the ROC will of course mantain a very important strategic presence in the region. However potential instability on the Island will be a worry to UK,and Eorope in general.

With potential breakdown of progressive and positive dealing with Turkey. Will Turkey leave Cyprus. No.

Turkey will strengthen its hold and will disregard the legal pedantics of EU law and international Embargo.

cont.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
20/12/2009

TRNC trade will be actively promoted with the East, including Israel. The influence of Europe upon the TRNC will significantly diminish and the TRNC will become most definately a middle eastern province.

What of the ROC. It and the EU will not be in a position to prevent such a change in allegence. The South will maintain its European status. The Western World V Eastern World potential for strife and conflict will be present at very close quaters, indeed on a small Island. What this could lead to is somewhat frightening.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
20/12/2009 08:58

One thing most TC's have in common with the GC's is that they want all mainland Turkish settlers and Turkish troops OUT!



The problem is, though, that they're not in any position to 'bite the hand that feeds them'!



At the risk of sounding cynical: could it be that the Turks are deliberately allowing successive ineffectual and inexperienced TRNC governments, together with their mindless and selfish polititians, to cause a total economic collapse, so that they will, eventually, be forced to go 'cap in hand' to beg Ankara to take over?



Every day that passes sees increasing 'Turkification' of TRNC - witness the latest 'TC dialect ban'... etc...

Moover321


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 649

Message Posted:
20/12/2009 22:26

I am not sure that the TC want the Turkish troops out - nor the end of the $600 Million plus support that it get from the mainland! At the moment they (TC) have the best of all worlds - protection from Turkey plus money and access to the EU if they want i.e. they can get ROC passports!



Perhaps the real TC malaise is being comfortable doing very little?