[SPECIAL] Greetings to all non-believers also!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/12/2009 13:03

We, the non-believers on this board, are not included in the many "Merry Christmas" wishes, I'm afraid. Understandable. We, the non-believers, want to see the rain when other people say they think it's raining - we want proof. We don't believe in fairy tales. So, to all like-minded people: enjoy this day without hypocrisy and live every day of your life - it's short enough and one day it's all finished. I wish you a prosperous 2010.

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
25/12/2009 13:13

thanks

Happy 24th December to all of you!

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
25/12/2009 13:47

Oh, I thought you thought you were God!!!!!



Happy new year to you DC XX

renelapin



Joined: 19/05/2007
Posts: 136

Message Posted:
25/12/2009 14:11

Hans - you know the words of Luis Bunuel ?



"Thanks God I'm an atheist"



All the best wishes !



Rene

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
25/12/2009 14:14

http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/default.asp

http://www.allabouthistory.org/who-is-jesus-aah-a891.htm

http://www.sodahead.com/religion/historical-proof-jesus-existed/blog-203097/

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_there_real_proof_that_Jesus_Christ_really_existed

http://thedevineevidence.com/jesus_historicity.html

http://gdwmboard.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1956031251/m/31210247911

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/jesus.html

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
25/12/2009 14:55

Hans - you know the words of Luis Bunuel ?

"Thanks God I'm an atheist"





That's more like it..that's what I'm talking about!

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
27/12/2009 18:06

Sorry Dutch, you are automatically included, as are all mankind. Don't think I will make an exception for you just because we differ in our opinions on religion. Not sure about the use of the word hypocricy in your text though, might that be some sort of an intended insult to believers, or are you just playing with us?

Best Wishes

TonyE

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/12/2009 19:45

RE msg 7, elkiton: (...) hypocricy in your text though, might that be some sort of an intended insult to believers, or are you just playing with us? (...)

=> I'm not playing with you, elkiton. But when you tell me or suggest that "he" or "He" lives and loves us - name one hour during Christmas when people didn't die under the supervision of this so-called loving God or Jesus and what have you. You can believe that it is raining when it's dry - but I take the liberty to say that it is dry when it is dry. No superstition or fright of death for me. By the way: I started this thread to talk to people who don't believe. I know there are hundreds of thousands of web sites where the "believers" have their way (msg 5) - but it's dry when it's dry. There is no god or higher being or higher power etc. It's all made up by frightened people. Frightened to die - and 'oh God' what will happen to me..?

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
27/12/2009 20:22

"It's all made up by frightened people."



And these frightened people multiplied over a thousand years then decided to go raping and pillaging and invading other countries in the name of God to free the holy land from the infidels.

It was called the crusades



Hans,if you want to know if it is raining the do what the Brits do,call the dog in and see if it's wet.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
27/12/2009 20:45

G'day Hans,



I'm a true non-believer too. Which means I live an interesting life in Saudi Arabia, where all my students are totally and unswervingly certain that "there is no god but god, and Allah is his name", and that anyone who does not believe this is one to be pitied, discriminated against in every possible way, educated, converted (or 'reverted' as they prefer to say), shunned, ignored or charged double.



In my opinion, organised religion (and I make the distinction between that and personal belief) is a true scourge of mankind and a blight on this planet. It has been, again in my opinion, responsible for most of the wars and "troubles" that have occurred down through the ages - I often wonder exactly how many people have been killed in the name of one god or another.



Merry festive season and all the best for 2010.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
27/12/2009 20:50

Hans an irish catiolic we are so scared of everything. However I do beleive that everybody has the right to beleive in what they beleive in. music stars or whaccky backy choice. Gool Im not fightened by my rergliion happy to live by it. Howeve I agere with the history of it. I live with my faith as best i can but i always wonder who is right

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 02:09

hey catholic is cool.. just pray a bit and get rid of all your "sins" no punishmet or similar.. "god forgive me".. (or am I worng? if yes, please forgive me)

if I was "clever" enough to be a "believer" then I would have become an catholic.. Bu "unfortunately" my mind & natural sense prevented me of such excuses...



Happy fiest time..



BTW: does anybody know what has happened to the "stolen" 7 days between christmas (jesus birth) and new years eve (day zero = jesus birth??)

I did some research and found out that:

1) 99% Jesus was not born in december, if he ever lived...

2) I also found out what happend after these "7 misterous days"...



If you what to know just ask, I will "enlighten" you..

good night..



Some basics about religion you all might want to see - only 10 min and youre done : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw&feature=PlayList&p=74B7BF0C6173B522&index=0&playnext=1

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 09:51

Lilli,I wasn't having a go,I was quoting Hans in msg 8.

mikelapta



Joined: 20/11/2008
Posts: 2186

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 09:56

Well I prayed in the Mosque in Lefkosa Christmas eve,and went to Mass in the Catholic Church in Girne on

Christmas Day.Both I enjoyed and give me inner peace....

Mike

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 09:59

Dutch, the thread title was ..."Greeting to all non believers..." which is exactly why I have joined it. You should have added a rider if you wanted to keep it "pure". So, Greetings!

I see here the usual comments about (paraphrasing) religion being the root of all evil.....sorry, a'int true and you guys in your rush to poke fun at believers as usual, got it wrong.

Religion is another cause that got hijacked by man for his own ends. Yes, much death and destruction has been wrought in its name, but, go read about the 4th crusade and see just how much was about pillage and plunder. T'was a bunch of thugs "crusading" to enrich themselves by stealing in the name of God. Ditto with N Ireland etc etc. so lay the blame at Man's door, not religion...convenient, but there could have been some other excuse like racism, a game which we in Europe are masters of.

Fairy stories? much is of course, Son of God, resurrection? Dubious...

What is interesting is that in the monothestic religions ....co

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 10:03

Amazing development in this thread. I was only greeting other non-believers in msg 1 and giving the reasons for my post. I'm not interested in a discussion, hints and tips about religion. It's no use - believers and non-believers have different opinions. So be it. If only the believers didn't always want to convince the non-believers that they are wrong.

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 10:10

contd... all have the same Head of table, God. The methods of worship are where the difference comes in. Futile really as its not provable..We C of E have the Son of God, Trinity etc....The Jews see this as Idolatry, rightly so in my view, but to them the second coming is to return their lost state of David. Western Catholics selling "pardons" and rewriting Papal directives really caused the schism between East and West, so the East went their own way. Islam is a relatively new religion, they have the "Last Prophet" Unlikely? yes in my view very unlikely, however it serves to put a full stop into the proceedings.

But....if you read the Ten Commandments, the Talmud, the Koran, you will find common threads like the 5 pillars of wisdom running through them all. It ain't religion that's the problem mate, it's man and his selfish, arrogant, "give it me I deserve it" attitude. God does not micro manage daily lives, where do you get that crap from?? Man takes responsibility himself.

TonyE

Albert5



Joined: 19/12/2009
Posts: 59

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 10:11

To msg 10: the real sentence is "There is only only one god (Allah) and Mohammed is his prophet" (one of his prophets, not the only prophet). PS: What the hell are you doing in Saudi Arabia?



To msg 12: That part of the documentary Zeitgeist is the weakest one. I do recommend the viewers to watch the entire doc, where is talking about 11th September. Wake up!



The funniest thing on all this is that it doesn't matter if we believe in God or not, He exists or not with independency of what we believe



Happy New Year to everybody!

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 10:17

Dutch, I used to think you were a measured considerate poster. What has happened over the months? Is your mind becoming cloudy and bad tempered with age? Are you in need of medication?

Get off your rant, we are not at all interested in convincing you that you are wrong. I believe you put that heading just so you could cause a ruck on this board, and then act clever about it, something you are seemingly interested in doing more and more.

So if you really want to not have a discussion, in future write your heading words properly, and don't try retrospective wheelspin to cover your mistakes, we can see through you like tissue paper.



Season's greetings

TonyE

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 10:18

Yes, couldn't agree more, Hans. Many of all those early missionaries have a lot to answer for too.



And Elkiton, if you gained the impression I was "poking fun" at believers, you didn't read what I wrote very well, and understood even less.



You are attempting to separate religion from man, but religion is only an idea of man's that early intelligence saw was a sure-fire road to wealth and power.



As it is today...

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 10:25

Hi Albert5,



I didn't say it was the "true" sentence, I said it was what my students unswervingly believed. If you understood the meaning of "students", maybe you could take a wild guess at what I'm doing here.



And it seems to matter an awful lot to some people whether we believe in (their) god or not. The Catholics may now have stopped murdering those who didn't believe in theirs, but it's still on the books in Sharia law that it's quite lawful to spill the blood of "unbelievers" in Islam.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 10:34

And 2 more Catholic Bishops have retired after allegations of sexual abuse in Ireland (Eire) !!! In the name of God.



Chris

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 15:39

and I dont think that the part "religion" in the zeitgeist movie ist the weakest part.. What makes it weak for "believers" is more the facts which are spread about the "wherefrom" of religion. As I also searched he internet after watching, it fully makes sense. BTW: Watch "Zeitgeist" and "Zeitgeist Addendum" - there are many intresting "answers" for believers and non believers.



So, who will tell me what has happened to the stolen 7 days between Jesus birth (24 th December) and Jesus birth (New years eve = day Zero = Jesus birth)

I know the answer...

exnavalperson


Joined: 22/07/2009
Posts: 224

Message Posted:
28/12/2009 15:56

Peace, prosperity, health and happiness to all in the coming year.









from all we Pagans.

MartinM


Joined: 03/10/2009
Posts: 166

Message Posted:
29/12/2009 10:50

Henrik



I'd like to understand your question first. Stolen days? What do you mean?



Nonetheless A Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year to ALL. Believers and non-believers alike.

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 01:07

I mean the missing days.. the days which were stolen by the church???, historians?? god??? whoever.. assuming jesus was born on 01.01.0000 why do we celebrate his birth at the day MINUS SEVEN (24th December)... ?? on the 24th December (-07.00.0000) Assuming jesus birth is the start of the calender, where have the seven days gone? who can explain.. ?

I mean, I think I know why it is like that and I could tell the answer, once somebody asks, but I did like to know from some religious people, why there is a - 7 days difference between jesus birth and the day Zero??

taraspring


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 571

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 01:25

Henrik he wasnt born on 24th December, he was born on 25th.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 01:33

Because the Bible offers no date for Jesus' birth, the placement of the nativity is up for debate. However, the presence of shepherds "keeping watch over their flock by night" [Luke, 2:8] suggests the birth may have actually occurred in the spring during lambing--the only time of year shepherds watched their flocks both day and night. During the centuries immediately following Jesus' life, Church leaders made no effort to correctly date the nativity. They focused on deaths and feast days, dismissing births as secondary.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 01:34

Church leaders may have also had theological reasons for choosing the date of Dec. 25th. The Christian historian Sextus Julius Africanus had identified the 25th as Christ's nativity more than a hundred years earlier. Chronographers reckoned that the world was created on the spring equinox and four days later, on March 25th, light was created. Since the existence of Jesus signaled a beginning of a new era, or new creation, the Biblical chronographers assumed Jesus' conception would have also fallen on March 25th placing his birth in December, nine months later.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 01:37

This link might answer your questions Henrik if you take the time to read it all that is;



http://petragrail.tripod.com/page5.html

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 17:16

I think some of you are missing the point.

I know that jesus, if he was ever born, was not born in december.

I wanted to know why there is a 7 days difference between the birth (day zero of calender counting) and new year (day zero of calendeer counting).?? (I think I know the answer to this aswell) But I am asking in the great round - do you know why??

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 18:27

Henrik. I don't know the answer.

exnavalperson


Joined: 22/07/2009
Posts: 224

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 20:13

No1. Neither does Henrik. He's not one to hide his light under a bush.

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 21:56

Henrik, am trying to make sense of your question, sorry for being a bit obtuse but there is no "year zero" ie 01.00.0000 does not exist as a calendar date, we switch directly from BC to AD1. As for your missing days, what missing days?

We did celebrate the start of the new year on Dec 25 which happened to coincide with the birth of Christ until the 13th century, then in the middle ages we used 25 Mar as the new year, then in 1752 we rationalised along with many other nations the new year with 1 Jan during the Julian / Gregorian switchover. Which is allegedly the circumcision date of Jesus.

FYI some Eastern Orthodox countries celebrate Christmas on 6 Dec,so by your logic, if you were posting on their forums would you be asking where are the missing 13 days?

Happy New Year

tionyE

paddywack


Joined: 04/05/2009
Posts: 959

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 22:25

Agree with you Hans,what I have seen in the name of religion living in Ireland,has made me a stronger non believer than before.

Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 23:28

Sorry guys, just about to leave the Forum and watch a movie, but please, just for the record (from one who spent years at uni trying to discover 'truth' and ending up as a B.D. (which many friends say stands for 'Blooming Daft') it is almost absolutely certain that Jesus was born around April time (for good explanations as given above - shepherds outside, etc, etc) but the Pagan festival was used to hide behind. Also it is kinda difficult to celebrate his birth and death on the same day, when of course, he died around April time.

As to 'whether he lived' it is well documented in historians of the day, Pliny, Josephus and others that a man called Jesus was cricified, and the New Testament tales are of the same man. The fitting in of prophecies is open to debate by many as the prophecies of the O.T. may well have referred to other expectations, but, hey I can't discuss that now. 'Im downstairs wants to watch a movie, and as an obedient wife I am off. Always happy to discuss 'truth', bu

Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 23:31

oopos - but a fact is a fact and faith is faith and religion is religion, and they don't alway s go hand in hand.

But what is it that you don't believe in, Hans? You are alive, aren't you?



Blessings to all - the human race deserves it, even those who are downright 'evil' With blessings they may become less 'evil;'



Happy New Year.

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
31/12/2009 23:45

TonyE - exactly! I am asking for the missing days, you got them. I thought we started counting with Jesus birth on the 01. 01. 0000 But you also got it with his circumcision - I wonder how many believers and non believers know this

BTW: My Bush is doing great - this is re message 33. And I like it when the lights are dimm- far away of beeing off..



To all of you- happy circumsision You got my message now.

See you next year

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
01/01/2010 00:33

This is an interesting link concerning the calendar etc.....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysius_Exiguus



S



PS happy new year!!!

Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
01/01/2010 01:40

Oh by the way, I forgot to mention that Jesus was not born on 01.01.0000 but was actually born sometine in about 4-6B.C. The calendar made a few mistakes, and of course, the calendar was amended several centuries later, so don't go kidding yourself that there are any missing days, dates, years or anything else.



Playing with numbers is fun, cos Jesus was actually born before he was born - if you see what I mean.