For us girls..HRT, Don't come off it

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 11:04

If you are thinking of coming off HRT...DON'T...I am back on them again, the flushes were not a problem, they were much milder but for 3 weeks now my neck and shoulders have been killing me and I mean killing me, I have never had such pain, I went to the docs and he said it was a withdrawal sympton and would last for 3 months + at least, bugger that.



I thought at first I had just been in a draft, but no. I wasn't taking my HRT but was eating a pack of Nurofen and that has to be a lot worse for me.



Keep taking the pills I say.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 11:08

My opinion is don't even start on the HRT as it just prolongs everything. Menopause without it normally lasts only 2 years.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 11:11

Chris I suffered very badly and I just couldn't cope, HRT is a wonderful drug imo it protects against osteo problems and it keeps us girls younger at heart as we don't age as fast, I won't be coming off it again for sure.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 11:13

Dee, You will go down in history as the oldest lady ever to take HRT you will still be taking it ant 130 yrs.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 11:16

Chris, I went onto a forum about withdrawal symptons and many women had the same pain in neck and shoulders and some women said at 75 they were still taking it, I am going to be one of them lol. Barbara Cartland never came off of it either.



Kev always said I was a pain in the neck, now he is right lol.

Whistler


Joined: 28/07/2008
Posts: 1332

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 11:40

Dee Keep taking the pills as you say. I tried coming off a couple of times and am now firmly back on it.

I get aches and pains but my doctor said he thought they would be a lot worse if I come off HRT.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 11:43

Message 6



I sincerely hope you are Mrs Whistler because if you are Ken you have a problem!!!!!!!!

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 12:03

Mrs Whistler if the doc wont keep prescribing them to me I will get them over there at the chemist in catalkoy, they are worth the cost.



3 cheers for HRT

Whistler


Joined: 28/07/2008
Posts: 1332

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 12:11

Sorry nursie. it is Mrs. Whistler, thought after I posted someone would pick it up!!! Mx

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 12:50

Whew glad about that message 9 was worried there for a bit!

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 13:12

I'm not a martyr , i take all the help i can .

Simbas

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 13:16

Simbas



I must have been really lucky did it with no help.! 2 years and all symptoms gone.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 13:19

I have been going through it since 1990 !!! not nice , have given up HRT from time to time , but just cannot cope . One day eh ?

Simbas

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 13:31

What is HRT ?



Is man to blame for it ?

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 13:34

Yes most definitely Tiggy

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 13:50

Dee and Simbas, I'm with you two on this one. Have tried stopping the HRT several times over the years and have always ended up back on it. Chris, only two years - I wished. My menopause has been going on for 12 years. What I have managed to do (on the recommendation of my GP) is to cut down on the actual dose. Now, rather than take it every day, I take it every other day. However, when I have tried to phase it out completely, the hot flushes, aches (particularly in my shoulders) returns.



I'm no martyr and take all the help I can get, too



Tiggy, message 14 - YES (probably)



J

everon


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 956

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 15:37

I dont take it and I also had no problems, in fact lots of ladies have asked me what I take! does the odd vodka tonic count x

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 15:46

HRT; 'Horny, Randy, Thoughts'? Please don't come off it!



Richard

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 15:53

I'm thinking of going on it! )

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 17:51

Jeannie you had the pain in your shoulders as well, isnt it debilitating, I am so grumpy because I am in so much pain, grrrr.

laptagal


Joined: 28/05/2008
Posts: 549

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:07

I have been on HRT for years and have tried many times to come off it but can't cope with the symptoms - also, apparently, I am very hard to live with without it !!! I just try to take the smallest dose that I can and will, I expect, wean myself off when I am so old I forget to take it.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:07

Bill you men do not realise how easy you lot have it, we have nasties every month, we carry for 9 months then do the hard work of having the baby, we then have to go through this awful menopause. think yourself lucky.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:14

laptagal did you get painful shoulders as well, and isnt it awful when you come off?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:19

Hi girls I took myself off them when I came here. I used to have the implants, then went onto tablets but couldnt get on with them, so had the patches. Well I couldnt keep them on in this heat, so ditched them. I still get pain in my shoulder but didnt connect that to stopping the HRT. I have forgotton what symptoms I had xxx

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:28

Could the bra staps be a little too tight ladies....this may be the cause of the shoulder pain.



Spare a thought for us lads that have to shave from around 15 years old at least once a day for the rest of out lives. see, we do not get it easy either.



No to mention the forthcoming 2" of soft in the middle that us lads have to face in the near future.........Stop the world...I wanna get off.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:33

Ah Tigs. Thats what set the men apart from the boys. Happy new year me darlin xx

laptagal


Joined: 28/05/2008
Posts: 549

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:34

Hi Dee, has been a while since I tried to go 'cold turkey' so I can't say if I did or didn't get shoulder pains. My main probems were the night sweats and the mood swings. I use a clear gel (Oestrogel) which you just rub into soft tissue - thighs or upper arm. I have never come across anyone else who uses this. Was presecibed by a young trendy doctor about ten years ago when I couldn't get on with the pills or patches.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:35

Yep , and it's all to do with men

menopause

menses

menorrhagia

menarche

mental health

and eventually a- men-orrhoea

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:37

i bet the list could go on and on simbas xxxx

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:40

I bet it could Lilli x x

smithy


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 5301

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:46

Bill go on it and see what happens )

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:53

Thanks Laptagal, I think i will recover quite soon as I have been back on them for 4 days now, another week I think and I will be back to my old self x

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:54

Smithy I should have stayed on them lol, wish I had believe me x

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:55

Lilli the shoulder pain is def coming off HRT, even the doc told me that. x

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:55

Simbas how we girls suffer eh, bloody men they get away with the lot, they only need to shave lol.

mags111



Joined: 17/08/2008
Posts: 251

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:56

Ive been going through the menopause for 4 years having hot sweats every hour. Im at the end of my tether so should I go to a doctor here and ask to go on HRT or just suffer and hope it stops????

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 18:57

Thanks Dee at last I know the doctors could never tell me what it was just muscle pain they said. At long last I have a reason. (when are you back) xx

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 19:06

yep, we get the blame for everything....even call it MENopause ....why not womenopause ?



With all your faults, we can not survive without ya!



Happy New Year to you Lilli & family included.



XX

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 19:17

Lilli I wasn't coming back till the end of april but it is so cold here, kev is on his way back now and I may come back on saturday but only for about 10 days as I have commitments here in the UK at the end of Jan xx

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 19:19

mags111 go to the doctor and get on HRT it is wonderful stuff, if you are over there you can just buy it in the chemist, just ask the chemist, the one in catalkoy is the best. cost about 23 tl for a month.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 19:20

Tiggy cos it is all you men's fault lol ))))))))

Vidal


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 867

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 19:26

Mags111



Me too. I bought every conceivable herbal remedy when I popped back to the UK in Nov. I was told not to take HRT because we have a history of breast cancer in the family. But its so bad I'm really weighing up the pro's and cons.

I'd be interested to hear what Nurseawful thinks on that one..any advice.

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 19:31

I never went on it because of the breast cancer scare and went through it naturally. I did suffer a bit from the night sweats and flushes but figured that if generations of women managed what is a natural process without drugs then I would give it a go.



Have to say though that friends who are on it swear by it. In my case though, what I never had I never missed.



Love to know what you all reckon it does for you though and the negative side of taking it.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 19:32

Vidal, this must be very tricky for you and I sympathise with your dilema, the only thing I can say is what I would do and I would ask myself what quality of life I have with bad symptons. Good luck.

Vidal


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 867

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 19:59

Cheers Girls



Roll on the summer when I wont be able to notice it so much!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/01/2010 22:53

Sheila and Dee. I'm starting a weeks course tomorrow. I'll let you know how I get on! )

mags111



Joined: 17/08/2008
Posts: 251

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 09:26

Thanks for the advice Dee, I will go down to the Pharmacy today because I too have tried all the usual herbal stuff with no difference at all. I will see you when you come back. Just listening to news on radio 2 and is sounds like snow is heading your way!!! better get over now as its lovely here!

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 09:46

Maggie I am gonna try and get a flight back saturday, it is dreadful here, -10 last night and although the house is warm it is truly freezing outside and my shoulders are killing me, I have never known pain like this, I think it will take a few weeks for the hrt to kick in again lol, shouldn't have listened to my doctor and will I be having with him soon

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 09:47

Bill as it is a female hormone you may grow boobs and start nagging your wife lol ))))

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 09:49

Apparently were in for 25cms of snow today Dee , i know where i would rather be

Have a safe journey , Simbas

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 10:00

Vidal,



There has been links to Breast Cancer and HRT. Personally if there was a history of this in my family I would definetely say no to HRT.

But only you can decide what is for you.

I would say initially try some of the herbal remedies that are available they might just work for you as they do for many women. If you want I will find out the names of some of the better ones for you.



Chris

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 10:07

Black Cohash should be avoided by ladies suffering with Cancer , until you speak to your Dr first . I know of one lady who was actually hospitalised after taking it

Simbas

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 10:25

Vidal,

Try e-mailing cyprushomeopath.katy@googlemail.com or telephoning her on 0533 848 9692. Katy should be able to give you the best advise.



Chris



p.s. That's interesting Simbas never heard that one before! I used to work with a nurse that swore by Black Cohash.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 10:27

I swear by aloe vera and vit b xx

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 10:38

i took it for awhile , with no great improvement . But as you say , and i too have known people to swear to it

Simbas

scoobydoo


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 2434

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 11:56

My mum is on HRT and has been since she was about 36yrs, she is now 70yrs and cannot come off it without all the symptoms you are all mentioning above so when I started with the flushes the one thing I did not want to do was start with HRT and be on it for ever and a day. I saw someone who appreciated that I wanted to try more natural remedies and suggested black cohosh and evening primrose oil.



I take Black Cohosh when the flushes become a nuisance however I only take it for 6 months at a time and then come off them for a while and see whether the symptoms return. Sometimes they do after a few weeks and sometimes not for a few months. If the flushes return but do not bother me, I will not start the black cohosh until they become unbearable.



I read that you should not take Black Cohosh for any, continuous length of time, you must give yourself a small break every 6 months.



Well, it works for me, and my husband loves it as I am not so grumpy

boglefan



Joined: 07/06/2009
Posts: 511

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 12:19

OK have tried not to put my bit on but here we go. HRT should be taken for five years maximum. (This is the guidelines give to the medical profession ). From a purely personal point of view, I made an informed decision not to commence on HRT despite having flushes, night sweats etc. For me this has turned out to have been the right decision. I was diagnosed last year with breast cancer. Fortunately it was caught early and was low grade wth no spread, it was however highly hormone +ve if I had taken HRT the tumour would most likely have been fed by the hormones and could possibly been a lot worse. The oncologist has started me on a hormone suppressant with terrible menopausal side effects, but believe me it is a lot better than the possiblity of a recurrance.

Make an informed decision, but I know if there was a history of breast cancer in the family I would tread very carefully before commencing HRT. Irene.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 12:29

There is a cake that you can make , a friend gave me the recipe years ago , it was like a slice of Budgie cake , i couldn't eat it . It probably could be googled if anyone is interested

Simbas

mags111



Joined: 17/08/2008
Posts: 251

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 15:08

Just been to the pharmacy in Catalkoy and she asvised me to have blood tests with a gyneocologist first. She wouldnt sell me them over the counter.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 15:12

Excellent Gynaecologist in Girne Mags her name is Dr Meryem Allison. She speaks perfect English. Telephone number is 0533 861 6519 or 0392 816 0366. She is just past the courts in Girne on the same side.

mags111



Joined: 17/08/2008
Posts: 251

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 17:36

Thank you, I will go and see her

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 18:34

Simbas,



Try Burgen bread, it tastes lovely and has the seeds and grains which help the menopausal symtoms.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 18:57

The cake i mentioned contained all types of seeds , will give it a go though , how much of it do you have to eat ?

take care , Simbas

Vidal


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 867

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 19:05

Ladies, Chris, Irene.



Thanks for all the good advice.

I went into a homeopathic store in the UK on a trip home in November. They asked me all the right questions and told me not to take Black Cohosh. (I too have friends who swear by it).



You have just confirmed what I already know really..I just have to put up with it. Was just hoping, but safe is best.

My Dad has lost 5 of his 6 sisters to breast cancer and the last surviving one has had preventative surgery (Fingers crossed for her).

Like I said roll on the summer when we are all hot and glowing!!

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 19:47

Maggie that is ludicrous, I buy mine all the time in there, did you tell her it was your first pack of pills, tlk to her husband, he is much nicer.

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 20:09

Simbas,



Apparantly 4. Google it and see for yourself.



Hope you are keeping well and WARM ! xx

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
05/01/2010 20:11

Thanks Bally , Its freezing here and more of it to come . Are you here or there ?

Regards , Simbas

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
06/01/2010 00:47

Hi Simbas,



I am in Co.Down. Freezing here as well, though we haven't had much snow here on the coast, feel sorry for you all on the mainland.



Back in sunny Cyprus in April.



Take Care

Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 07:00

Dee can you tell me which HRT you are taking, i was on it in UK and never had any side effects, yesterday i was prescribed it again here after refusing the herbal stuff, it seems that there is not much choice here.

I am on Prempak c 100tl for 3 months supply but reading about it lots of women complain about weight gain which would then give me a whole lot of other problems.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 10:07

Teresa I am on kliovance or kliofem, I dont think a doctor will prescribe that for you though as you are much younger than me and the one I am on stops the usual bleed we women have to endure, I think you have to be late 50's.



Go to the chemist in Catalkoy and speak to the man, not his wife,she is less helpful and he will give you the turkish equivalent of Prempak c is he has it. I was on Prempakc for years. Hope this helps.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 10:42

I never went on HRT because of the breast cancer scare and my mother died at 44 after

getting that. Didn't really have any problems with menopause (except very heavy periods)

and I still don't have any major problems, in fact look and feel younger than my years, so

I am told - and I believe it!

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 10:49

phylray you were one of the lucky ones and I am pleased for you, I suffered very badly and hrt to me was a lifeline.

Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 12:58

Dee thanks for that, will give these a try for the 3 months and see how it goes, just the weight gain is a worry for me.

mamachina


Joined: 22/11/2008
Posts: 730

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 14:04

I went on HRT for a few years or so, really just for osteo until the Doc said Id had enough!! I think she was thinking of breat cancer - came off and noticed no difference so presume I was lucky in that way, no aches and pains but got 2 other kinds (of cancer) instead later on! But my bones seem ok!!!!!!! Oh, yes and didnt really notice the menopause either - same as my mum, all over in a couple of months, hope my daughter is as lucky as I feel I must have been, reading other peoples woes.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 20:27

Teresa I didn't gain any weight although it is different with each case, I only put on weight when I got into my middle fifties and that was middle aged spread lol and I have lost it again so don't worry too much about that. Good luck to you.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 20:33

Quiet analysis of the posters speaks volumes. Keep taking the tablets (Moses syndrome)



wynyardman

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 20:34

Teresa - can agree with Dee on the weight gain issue. I put on some weight in my mid fifties, about 5 years into the change. It didn't last long and for the last few years I've stayed stable at around nine and a half stone and am still on the HRT. I think it very much depends on the individual. A friend of mine tried it, she piled on the pounds and so came off it again. The weight came off as quickly as it went on! Mind you, the same happened to her when she went on the pill.



Regards.



Jean

Teresa


Joined: 21/11/2007
Posts: 1018

Message Posted:
12/01/2010 21:00

Thanks Jean and dee and Wyn you are very brave to even get into this discussion.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 00:56

I tried to do it without HRT but could not do it and it was great taking HRT. However, my Doctor contacted me (in UK) and asked me to go into his office for an interview, when I got there the checked everything and then advised me to come off HRT. He said that after 10 years they are more likely to do harm now than good. He then gave me a leaflet about the dangers of pro-longed HRT. The benefits mentioned above are right osteo-whatever it is, etc. I came off them 3 years ago and it was horrendous. I got the pains in the neck and shoulds but it was due to throwing the blankets off at night and getting freezing cold. I was advised to look at alternatives to HRT (there is a very good book with that title if you can find it). Soya milk is very good (Japanese women do not have a menopause due to the soya in their diet - it is the Western diet which causes it). I went to a nutritionist and was advised to get Sage (you can get it in tablet form or take it in drops) After a month or

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 01:01

so, I noticed a big improvement. As soon as I stopped they came back. I have taken Sage drops or tablets for 3 years now and I can say that the symptoms have all gone. I have recentyly stopped taking the sage and the symptoms have not returned. I am 63 now and have no symptoms, if I get a sweat, like last week, I lay there thinking sh** its back - then I noticed the heat coming from the radiator at the side of the bed - got up and turned the central heating off - well it is freezing here in the UK.

Stick with it, the alternatives are not nice - look up the consequences of taking HRT Long Term.

My doctor said he would put me back on them - AT MY OWN RISK, AGAINST HIS ADVICE and I was asked to sign a form stating that he had given me that advice.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 03:14

Katy - am off for HRT check up next week - will keep you posted

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 03:15

Teresa - message 78.



Some may say brave and some may say stupid

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 03:20

Message 76 - an interesting point - 'Moses Syndrome'.



So I assume, Mr Cooper, that you, yourself, have been through the menopause?



NB I don't mean the imaginary one that middle aged men claim to go through, but the hormonal one that women actually do.



How did you cope with the symptoms? You'll be telling us next that childbirth is like shelling peas, no doubt.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
13/01/2010 14:33

'Mr Cooper says: 'Quiet analysis of the posters speaks volumes. Keep taking the tablets (Moses syndrome)' mmm...mmm...m..

My 'tablets' started in my 40's when my doctor sent me to the hospital for tests. Still ovulating, but getting menopausal symptoms - BAD!!!! Advice: no caffeine or hot baths at night (no tablets!!!!) that worked for a while. I then got the book 'Alternatives to HRT' Excellent and I used it for 3 years then the symptoms came back. Thats when the doctor recommended HRT (all else had failed!!!!) He pointed out the benefits as stated above, so I went on them and they were great - got my life back!!! Until he called me in for the interview and LAYED IT ON THICK about the fact and the benefits cease after long term usage and now they would do me more harm than good. I had a choice and I made it, is has not been easy, but now I am glad I took it.