The Orams...

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 13:13

The most talked about subject over the last week or so has been the Orams.



What are your thoughts?

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 13:15

NCFP latest on costs and asking Mr A to go to the IPC

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/01/28/the-orams-villa-will-not-be-demolished/

StGeorgeI


Joined: 27/08/2009
Posts: 973

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 13:30

Seems to me like the decision in the UK courts just confirms the legal standing that an order by a court in a EU country must be upheald in another EU country.



What should have been contested from the first instance is the fact that the original trial could never have been fare, no more so than if it had been held in a TRNC court... or am I missing something?



I also feel that this is another issolated case, as there have been before involving GC/TC citizens, and you will not see hundreds of similar cases going through the EU courts. I can't see a feasible way that this would be possible.



The Greeks have got their 5 years of negative press for the TRNC and they will now look at another 'Individual' case, probably of a differnet nature, to drag through the press for the next 5 years.



Short term - Negative.

Long term - little to worry about.



IMO,

G

Happy Hussar


Joined: 01/10/2008
Posts: 318

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 13:38

I wish the Lady had torn up the writ/summons and dumped it in the bin where it belonged!

Tony

StGeorgeI


Joined: 27/08/2009
Posts: 973

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 13:42

Exactly Hussar - and hopefully anyone in the future will! Rip it up, throw it in the bin, take the number plate and phone the police!



If everyone does this then there'll be no legal judgements to answer in the UK.



G

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 15:22

I'm not sure if thats exactly correct St George1.



I don't think they have to physically give you the summons. I'm sure someone will either confirm or deny this.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:09

Let me answer a few questions:

1. European Court of Justice, ECJ is the body that has the final say about the interpretation of any EU law. However it is not a court of Appeal i.e. it decided that even though the EU law is suspended in the north, the whole of the island is a member of EU and therefore any Greek Cypriot Court decision about the whole of Cyprus is bindinbg and enforcable in all EU countries.



2. There is no appeal from the High Court of ROC, no matter how biased they are. However, if anybody complains that his/her human rights have been contravened, they can apply to the European Court of Human Rights. This is what Orams have done on the argument that they were not given a chance to defend themselves. It will take a few years before it is decided upon.



3. The Court of Appeal in UK has ordered Orams to abide by the court decision of ROC i.e demolish the house and hand back the lad to Apostoledies plus pay compensation. TRNC authorities will not allow the demolition

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:12

of the houe, hence they will claim "frustration" as the legal jargon goes and not be held responsible and be imprisoned for disobeying the court order. However they will have to pay the compensation for "mesne profits", another legal jargon in lieu of rent for the land they "tresspassed".



This is it in a nutshell.

ismet

http://www.elkocyprus.com

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:14

Rauf Denktas's article in Wednesdays Cyprus Today on this matter made sound sense and was well explained.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:18

Ah yes about the summonses:

1. A writ in Cyprus can be served on a person by handing over the papers by the clerk from the court and asked to sign a paper. If he/she refuses to sign, it can be served by "leaving" the papers there. That includes putting it down on the ground or even pushing it under the door. In most cases it can be left at place of work or given to the spouse or someone living in the same house.



2. If the person lives abroad, the court may order the plaintiff to send it by double registered post. In addition the judge may order a copy to be served on relatives or have it published in a daily paper.

ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:19

Corbo,

What did it say?

ismet

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:41

Quite detailed Ismet. Laid out the history, went into the legal issues and the EU. Ended with..'Imposing the illegal Greek Cypriot court's decision on the TRNC is tantamount to cruelty and not justice.' He made his argument coherently and it was more accessible than some of his more recent pieces in the paper.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:45

It appears that they may be appealing the verdict or part of it see the Cyprus Mail



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/orams-packing-hoping-stay-put/20100127

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:46

The Supreme Court, as well as being the final court of appeal, plays an important role in the development of United Kingdom law.

As an appeal court, The Supreme Court cannot consider a case unless a relevant order has been made in a lower court.

The Supreme Court:

• is the final court of appeal for all United Kingdom civil cases, and criminal cases from England, Wales and Northern Ireland

• hears appeals on arguable points of law of general public importance

• concentrates on cases of the greatest public and constitutional importance

• maintains and develops the role of the highest court in the United Kingdom as a leader in the common law world

The Supreme Court hears appeals from the following courts in each jurisdiction:

England and Wales

• The Court of Appeal, Civil Division

• The Court of Appeal, Criminal Division

• (in some limited cases) the High Court

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:48

Courts are the final arbiter between the citizen and the state, and are therefore a fundamental pillar of the constitution.



The Supreme Court has been established to achieve a complete separation between the United Kingdom’s senior Judges and the Upper House of Parliament, emphasising the independence of the Law Lords and increasing the transparency between Parliament and the courts.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 16:49

In August 2009 the Justices moved out of the House of Lords (where they sat as the Appellate Committee of the House of Lords) into their own building on the opposite side of Parliament Square. They will sit for the first time as a Supreme Court in October 2009.

The impact of Supreme Court decisions will extend far beyond the parties involved in any given case, shaping our society, and directly affecting our everyday lives.

For instance, in their previous role as the Appellate Committee of the House of Lords, the Justices gave landmark rulings on the legality of the Hunting Act 2004 under European law, and whether or not a schoolgirl could be prevented from wearing traditional cultural dress.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 19:27

I believe the back rent that to be paid to Mr A for use of his land, was in the region of £500 per month.

If that is correct ,what was the basis of that and why did the lawyers not contest it.

How can it cost £500 a month ,especially for years as far back as 2003,for land without a villa ,when the going rate for land with a villa is less. Surely market rates in NC for grazing/agricultural rent is not that much.Must be dearest bit of real estate outside Kensington.

Were Mr A's legal team not asked to prove how Mr A ,a non resident of TRNC and non TRNC citizen, would have earned that if the Orams did not occupy the land. I am surprised at this as all the Orams legal team would have to do is get estate agents literature showing land for rent and the rental income.



So how was this sum arrived at?

Vidal


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 867

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 19:36

Wonder how much you would get charged/fined for camping on GC land? You can get some very nice tents these days.

MMMmmmm Think I might be onto something )

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 21:15

probably the going rate, £270 a night.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 21:23

girne i hope the trnc government slap rental tax on it xxxxxx

LivingNC



Joined: 15/07/2009
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
28/01/2010 23:20

what's in the north, is north cyprus (trnc) property what's in the south is south cyprus (roc) property...



its a good thing the government switched a while back... if we were still green, i think we would have had to taken a flight out of no return!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
29/01/2010 09:33

I think the Apostolides victory just merely proved a legal point. It was a hollow victory in that he will never return to the North and settle here.







What will he do with the land? Nothing, it'll lay dormant for another 25 years - perhaps longer. He definately won't try to sell it, at least whilst he is alive. Perhaps his family may sell it in years to come.

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
29/01/2010 09:41

As usual the lawyers will do well out of this and the EU gravy train members. This complex situation will need another 50 full time EU employees at least..on full expenses. I'm sure many politicians have their grubby fingers in legal firms.One of them is on live at 11.30 Cyprus time defending his war in Iraq. No doubt he'll be claiming some vast sum for attending. I'm sounding too cynical..back to my novel. 'Christine Turner now was sure that this was one of her husbands houses and that Joe White had somehow broken in and was using it. The other explanation was too fantastic to contemplate...' sorry typing in the wrong place.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
29/01/2010 09:44

'Christine Turner now was sure that this was one of her husbands houses and that Joe White had somehow broken in and was using it. The other explanation was too fantastic to contemplate...



Intriguing Corbo.....keep typing! )

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
29/01/2010 11:11

Is that trying or typing? Onto chapter 12 out of a planned 20 and Christine ends chapter 11 holding a gun to White's head after the postman came.