Greece - austerity measures

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 07:10

The Greek Prime Minister has announced tough austerity measures aimed at cutting his country's soaring public debt.



Mr Papandreou said a public sector pay freeze and fuel duty increases were essential because the economic crisis was propelling Greece towards a cliff.



He said the EU was pressuring him to curb the budget deficit, which is four times higher than the 3% permitted.



The European Commission will meet later on Wednesday to consider his measures.



Earlier, one of the principal architects of the euro warned against any financial rescue of Greece, saying it could destabilise the currency.



German economist Otmar Issing told the BBC that after years of violating rules and cheating on its statistics, Greece had to reform its own economy without a bailout from Brussels.



"These reforms which are needed will be blood and tears... but without that, Greece will never overcome the difficulties," he said.



BBC



Too late! Well and truly bust... Expect some massive civil

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 07:21

Grouch

Watch what is going to happen with Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain also.

Bad times ahead for the EU.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 07:41

Cont:



Unrest...



not sure why that got knocked off the end as the characters left counter said I had plenty... must be a special Cypriot counter. Maybe if I'd waited long enough it would have turned up Yarın!

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 07:47

No Doubt the ROC are a disaster waiting to happen aswell. Good to see the EU falling apart, all the more reason for Turkey to stay well out and prosper with emerging economies like China and India. Great to see a plan coming together.



D.N

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 08:30

Exactly!



Why Turkey should want to strap itself to the sick cow of Europe (AKA the EU) whilst said cow is standing on the edge of a precipice is beyond me... They ought to observe the number of nations who wish they'd never joined and for whom the cost of extraction is too great.



What exactly is it the EU offers Turkey? Membership of the Bankruptcy Club...

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 09:11

I understand the joy of the anti-EU people on this board, but maybe they can also write their predictions for an era with a broken up EU (I hope not)? Economically, socially, militarily and politically, please. "Plan B" so to speak.

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 09:37

Heinz, I look upon the EU now as a crumbleing empire, maybe it was once a good idea but its main engine rooms are being bled dry by leech economies which can only lead to a break up due to it not being able to compete with emerging economies, with its comitments to the club.

Militarily, as has been often said on the BB some countries commitments are a joke (cant fight at night ect),. and politicaly a club that cant sign off its own accounts says it all. Its a ship on the rocks , Greece is the beginig of the cancer that will lead to its death.



D.N

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 09:38

What sanctions can the EU impose on a member state whose budget deficit is four times higher than the 3% permitted?

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 09:52

So how long before £1=1.5 euro?



Richard

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 10:00

"Plan B" (after the EU has - partly - fallen apart):

1 : Economically/monitarily: ?

2 : Socially: ?

3 : Militarily: ?

4 : Politically: ?

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 10:34

Plan B, 1 Economicaly I can see the likes of Germany, UK and France looking after No1, the rest of the hangers on picking for scraps.

2 Socially, after civil unrest a few goverment heads rolling, life goes on

3Militarily, Presently some members contribute more than others this will carry on the same

4Politcaly, Disbanding an expensive taking shop of medelers can only be a positive, Each look after ther own,

and compete on the international stage on their individual merits.



D.N .

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 11:01

I understand that Euro zone ministers are considering sanctions on Greece over the repeated publication of misleading budget figures.



What sanctions can they impose?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 11:09

Unfortunately the rosy future for the EU painted when Britain wanted in, has largely been proven to be a myth.



Is there any option?



Well, it's hard to see how the machinery of Europe can be undone. I don't think enlightened self-interest will lead to military solutions to economic ills.



Europe has been there, seen that, done it. The only people who get rich then are commodities merchants, armaments companies and arms dealers. I'm hopeful that the lessons have been learned, and we don't need to sacrifice another generation of young men and women on the altar of greed.



Socially, I'm not convinced that Europe has been good for things like national identity with every nation being watered-down and nearly regulated out of existence by Eurocrats and their often daft EU laws requiring compliance.



I do think that 'death by a thousand cuts' awaits the greater EU. How quickly will this happen? Your guess is as good as mine.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 11:41

I think the Euro was a good idea but too early. Those countries in Eurozone have difficulties in adjusting their economies when in trouble and this is bound to bring the Euro and eventually EU down. The big economic crises began in the United States and I have been suspicious about it all along. Could it be a set up to bring down the Euro as the biggest rival of te Dollar? There is too much talk about China and India as emerging economies but considering their technological backwardness in military technologies, they are not likely to pose a serious threat to the supremacy of the dollar.

ismet

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 12:08

http://www.lse.co.uk/FinanceNews.asp?shareprice=&ArticleCode=i59lw1ijs8zb29p&ArticleHeadline=Turkish_markets_rise_as_inflation_signals_growth



looks like Turkey is doing just fine with out the need to join EU

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 12:10

Elko



' Those countries in Eurozone have difficulties in adjusting their economies when in trouble and this is bound to bring the Euro and eventually EU down.'



The problem is that Greece and other countries have lied about their fiscal status and the EU have swept it under the carpet. The ROC is a typical example. Greece and the ROC fiddled their books to get in and have continued to lie year in year out. The EU cannot even get its own accounts in order so with only 2 or 3 major contributors to EU funds it does not look good.

AJ

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 13:43

Dixie

"Good to see the EU falling apart, all the more reason for Turkey to stay well out and prosper with emerging economies like China and India. Great to see a plan coming together."



What plan?Whose plan? Are you American?



450million of us live in the EU and most of us feel the opposite to you ,we do not want to our economies to crash in favour of China and India. Never mind me ,I have children and granchildren who will live in Europe long after I have gone.



Wonder what society the average worker, Turk, Indian or Chinese would rather live in?



I havent seen a mass exodus of Turks from Germany to escape the "falling apart of the EU". Ask them if they hate the EU.



UK should leave the EU its not for us. The rest of EU is trying to work towards getting over the economic situation ,which is what the Greece situation is about, and competing with China, while we in UK hope for opposite.



Leave the EU and give the rest of us in Europe peace.

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 14:29

Well said dixie, poor old girne is still living the euro dream. Wake up girne, the EU is the biggest scam of the last century. Created by politicians for politicians whilst the people are bled dry. well done to Turkey for taking the money but managing to stay out. When the EU finanly crumbles Germany will emerge the strongest(all the ECB gold reserves are in Frankfurt). I just hope they dont use a major war to try and bind it together. Who knows maybe its already started with the 2nd invasion of Iraq. After all its easier for America to control one EU foreign minister than 27 independent ones.

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 14:52

AJ is right - Greece fiddled the books , and it's euro partners turned a blind eye



The Greek population are good at rioting at the best of times - these austerity measures are not going to be easy



To my mind, the euro was a daft idea that could never work (looking purely from a financial perspective)



Demographically, Turkey with it's young population would be a good fit to the ageing EU



Mark

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 14:57

Dont think the turks are that keen to become the whipping boy of the EU.

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 15:02

Msg 17



The EU will never be able to compete with emerging economies, even though the goods produced by the up and coming are not to the quality of EU goods as yet, quality will improve and good value achieved. Manufacturing in the EU will not be compedative, making the sector reliant upon service industries and on a water treading exercise for years to come. I believe thats the reality of the situation and unless the group wakes up in the very near future, more and more companies will be off to seek improved opertunities in India and China causing greater economic hardship. We can all bury our heads in the sand, one can only hope the wheels coming off the gravey train may trigger a change in direction that may be to the benefit of member nations or as you say its going to be generations to come that will paying the price.



D.N

jimmy


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 251

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 15:28

Oooooppps......... Greece discover some more debt.







http://www.zerohedge.com/article/greece-discovers-40-billion-previously-unknown-debt-cds-tightening-reverses

Joe Soap


Joined: 17/10/2008
Posts: 170

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 16:49

A tough time for the Greeeks then.



Will they start emigrating to......... ROC.



A sort of SISONE

mamachina


Joined: 22/11/2008
Posts: 730

Message Posted:
03/02/2010 17:01

Msg 23 - I bet they already have!!