Sikh judge Sir Mota Singh criticises banning of Kirpan

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 12:39

Sikhs should be allowed to wear their ceremonial daggers - known as Kirpans - to school and other public places, Britain's first Asian judge has said. There have been a number of cases of Sikhs being refused entry to venues because they wear the Kirpan or other religious artefacts.

Sir Mota Singh QC, who is retired, has criticised schools over the issue.

"Not allowing someone who is baptised to wear a Kirpan is not right," Sir Mota told BBC Asian Network. "It is the right of every young girl and boy to be educated at the school of their choice. For him or her to be refused admission on that sort of ground, as far as I'm concerned, is quite wrong.

"It ought not to happen but it does. I think it's wrong to be discriminated against for that reason."



Should children be allowed to carry knives in school?

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 12:49

Sadly in the times that we live in I feel it would be very dangerous to allow children to carry any type of weapon, religious or not, there would always be the risk of someone getting hurt or worse. Young people of today face enough dangers without this and if that is discriminatory then so be it, I would hate to think that my grandchildren were attending a school where the possession of weapons was acceptable.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 13:02

With stabbings by teenagers at an all time high in the UK, you then get some old duffer pulling the race discrimination card. What a totally and utterly ridiculous statement !!!!!



God (or Allah) help us !!!



Paul

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 13:05

If these daggers can be represented by a "dummy" knife, i.e. not pointed and not sharp, then I think they could be accomodated. However, I am not sure the blanket "allowing" of anything based purely on religion grounds is the right way to go.

For security reasons, I don't think Burkhas should just be "allowed" in public in the UK. I don't like them either, for other reasons, but that's no excuse to ban them.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 13:09

I'm afraid , i am of the same mind as you Hatti . Multicultural Britain mmm ! i think when a person decides they want to live in a certain country , then it is up them to ask themselves whether they can or cannot except the laws of their chosen country , and whether it's the right place for them to raise their children in the tradition they were born into , carrying a weapon of any sort is against the law in Britain . That's just in my opinion .

Simbas

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 17:13

"The Compton School offered the boy the option of wearing a smaller knife, welded into a metal sheath, but his parents refused and withdrew him - an action by the family that Sir Mota said he supported."



Next thing you know they'll be stopping Rastafarian kids from smoking dope at school.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 17:19

Errrr,....





How do these kids carry these 'knives' to school?



On foot or in a car, or on the bus or tube???



I thought our laws were now up to 8 years prison for carrying a knife in a public place.



????





Rob

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 17:22

im with hatti and simbas, what message does that give to other kids xx crazy world

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 17:25

It sure is a crazy world!

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 17:36

As far as I know it doesn't have to be a proper dagger/sword - can be a small replica or

made of harmless material. I have known several sikhs who do not wear them and also

cut their hair, so do not wear turbans. Think the judge is being silly not to specify this which

he must know very well.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 17:47

People have been shot by police for carrying what turns out to be a 'replica' weapon.



Would you know if you are being threatened on a dark night with a 'replica' or real knife or gun?

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 18:00

I have many Sikh friends who mindful of the impracticalities wear a small silver Kirpan, fashioned to look like a tiny brooch or pin.

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 18:07

If this judge does not like the law of this country he could always move to one where the wearing of offensive weapons is allowed.

Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 18:10

It is not a 'knife' it is a religious symbol. And the wearing of it is not optional (unlike crucifixes) and apparently there as never ever been known a case of one being used as a weapon.

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 18:12

This is a genuine question to the Scots amongst you.

How do you get away with the wearing of a Skean Dhu?



Fiona

Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 18:13

It is one of five sacred 'Ks' that must be worn at all times. No one objected to the Sikhs who fought on the side of the Brits in both world wars wearing these sacred items.

Dusterbruce


Joined: 03/08/2007
Posts: 1125

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 18:16

I dont think the Sikhs who fought in the world wars wanted change the laws of the country they fought for.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 18:17

Sikhs and Kirpans are not an issue in the Netherlands (there are not many of them), but knives are: in disco's, stadiums, schools, on the streets etc. That's why the government will introduce a new law shortly (there's already a law against having certain knives in one's possession) banning ANY knife in public, unless needed for professional reasons. I think it's a good idea - knives are never necessary for kids or grown-ups in disco's, stadiums, schools, on the streets etc - so why discuss the obvious (msg 1)?!

decanddyl


Joined: 17/01/2009
Posts: 792

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 18:56

re msg 15

They are no longer worn at sports events, even any highland games although replica's are permitted. If taking it overseas it must be carried inside a case /holdall in the hold. I am not sure if pipers/drummers are allowed to wear them in a public place. I do know they can still be worn at private functions for eg. weddings. Most if not all the kilt hire shops only provide wooden or plastic replica's nowadays.

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 19:06

Re Message #19



Thank you.

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 21:40

Msg 7. Sikhs are exempt from the law of carrying a knife in public. The Judge Sir Moto Singh wears a white turban in court instead of a wig.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/02/2010 21:50

Perhaps they should wear a wooden or plastic one.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
09/02/2010 11:36

Darrener2 Yes, that is what I would think most thinking Sikhs do. It doesn't have to be big even.

They have to wear 5 k's in memory of their leader who was persecuted for his religion and had to

survive in the wilds, his hair growing long etc.