If you knew what you know now, would you buy in the TRNC?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
08/06/2008 20:33

Its really sad and depressing to hear of some peoples experiences of buying in the TRNC. Dreams have been shattered, bank accounts emptied, heightened stress levels and some purchasers admitting to feeling foolish and having lost their self-esteem and confidence since parting with their hard earned money.

I up to now have been lucky in that I had an excellent builder and advocate (will not recommend until I have my deeds) yet there is still uncertainty even though everything has been fine so far. Throughout our search for property we heard a few rumours that the government were not handing out Permission to Purchase on pre 74 properties. This was dismissed by our advocate and several people said it only applied to those near a military base and pre 74 were the best as they were the only ones 100% internationally recognised.Our research confirmed this so we went ahead. Now I am informed that the government wants to keep as much Turkish Title Land as possible so is stalling handing out the PTP on this particular type of property. Of course its not announcing that its doing this but anyone reading the Cryprus Today or seeking advice from the HBPG are aware that this is happening. I can see why they might want to retain this land and property but why let people hand over all their money knowing that they will never own it? Does it not stink of, its ok to sell GC property but we don't want to sell ours? Why can't this government just be honest? I can't help but think its just another way of ripping off more foreigners. I really love the TRNC but I have to say that the more I read and hear the more reluctant I am becoming to recommend to new buyers. This is a shame because honest builders like mine deserve every opportunity to make a decent living so everyone loses out.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/06/2008 20:55

Bradus,



No.



Yet again your understanding of the situation is impeccable.



wynyardman.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
08/06/2008 20:59

Don't think I would either despite good experience. Its not just whats happening now but what could happen in the future with a government that serves only its own interests and not its peoples.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 01:28

think pre74 issue is in limbo because of talks, hopefully will revert to original concept of status once talks end one way or another.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 01:55

No niether would i , we love the country , the people , the food , the weather , but feel that we are not welcome in the TRNC , By the politicians (that is ) the new kibtek ruling is one example why should non citizens have to pay such a hefty deposit for electric , by all means pay for electric in advance , in order to cover the non payers , but why should non citizens money just sit in an account , completley unfair . Also we are led to believe that paying for property , and property taxes are acceptable , but how many foreigners own the property ?or ever will , a total let down on the whole for me , all i can see are politicians trying to get as much as they can while they can , as they know that it will not last forever .

Hot Hornet


Joined: 03/06/2008
Posts: 343

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 10:11

believe there is a reason for all of this, which will become apparent in the not too distant future perhaps. it does feel as though foreigners are being made to feel the squeeze, with the government seemingly making it harder and harder through process and procedure, but think they are under pressure from other places to do it.

i love this place too but do understand why people would not recommend this country at the present time. just look at investment property worlwide to see the kinds of deals and prices you can get in other countries, which are easier to deal with regard to the legalities of buying.

Jenks


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 10:29

I heard an interesting take on the current situation from a local cypriot businessman. He claims that the government are prioritising the exchange land title deeds because in the event of a settlement thats where all the problems will be. The pre74 stuff is being left at the back because its not going to be an issue. It actually makes some kind of sense - not that i believe it!!!

Hot Hornet


Joined: 03/06/2008
Posts: 343

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 10:43

good theory though jenks, and as you say one which could be believable, but think we know better than that!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 10:48

Hot Hornet,



Your posting has a ring of reality about it.



Does the Government not understand the damage that it is doing with The honest decent people that have bought pre 74 property ? (usually at a premium)

Jenks posting seems to confim what you are saying,



Given the treatment that this Government has allowed the rogue builders to hand out to legitimate property buyers, and the weakness in the legal system, it is little wonder that people are bailing out, as quickly as they can, AND UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD ANYONE CONSIDER BUYING OFF PLAN until this Government shows good faith, clarifies some of these issues, and puts through the requested ammendment to the Specific Performance Law of 1885.



WE MUST SIGN THE PETITION....IT IS IN EVERYONES BEST INTEREST



wynyardman

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 11:59

Hi Bradus,

To answer the question. Yes I definately buy in TRNC knowing what I know now. BUT it would have to be a completed property. All the bits and pieces, and thats what they are, which bother many people are part and parcel of moving into a different culture and I can happily accept them.

All my problems are caused by non-cypriots / non-brits who are unprofessional and totally devoid of ethics. They could operate in any country and cause the same problems. All my dealings with local people have been fine and I am looking forward to handover soon if I can afford all the fictitious extras which originate from the magician's hat of my developer.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 13:06

hi , at this moment in time , i would have to yes , i would buy again ,we have not had any problematic experiences of yet , i've loved every moment i have spent there , and hope that nothing arises to spoil it

have a good day , simbas

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 14:24

Yes so far I would, but then again I haven't got my villa yet.



Fingers crossed.



MC

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 14:48

No,dont feel wanted any more ,and not rich enough to lay any more golden eggs,but, just as things have got worse in the last few years ,one can hope that things can also improve.so will still hang in there.



So in short, I personally would still want to live in trnc,but could not ,with a clear conscience,encourage anyone to buy at the moment.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 14:52

Yes, I would buy again. But a resale, never a house from scratch.



One thing for certain will never go back to England.



As for pre 1974 my own view it has been over sold in that people have paid premium prices for something that is a re herring in terms of future "settlement" problems.



Also from talking to people who have been here a lot of years there is less than 10% of purchasers ever get a Kocan. Any body who does not regualrly read CT, there was an arrticle several months ago where people are still waiting from 30 years ago. So any apparent embargo on the refusal of PTP on pre 1974 is not new news.



So unless you desperatley want a particularly piece of property do not even try to battle for or pay OTT for pre 1974 title.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 15:21

Absolutely not.

jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 15:51

This reminds me of a song.

If i had my life to live over again, would i.......

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 21:09

CiH,



Surely you wouldn't encourage people to by anything other than pre-74? It's the only title that's 100% safe and legal and more to the point, it's not the property of a refugee or war victim. I like a home I can sleep soundly in!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 21:55

PtePike,



What is the point if you can't get a PTP?



If land and property has been exchanged with the consent of both parties,what is immoral in that ?

Since time immemorial property and land has been regarded as the spoil of conflict. At some point in time, these issues need to be addressed.



Why should Cyprus be any different?



I do not condone conflict IN ANY form, but unfortunatley it is a fact of life, and life has to go on.



wynyardman

Ediz M


Joined: 29/01/2008
Posts: 25

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 21:57

hi guys my father is t/c although he has been in the uk since 196o .we bought at palm bay view in bahceli ,and one of the reasons was , he tells me that before the conflict you could,nt even give that land away nevermind sell it. so even if and when there is a settlement ,and he says not in his life time and his o nly 52 .the cost of the land adds up to pennies .as in most cases

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 22:18

As if, Good Private!!!!!



You know my view, I have bought the land and know the risks. If somebody holds legal title and comes along and wants my bit of land back then that is the risk I took.



Unfortunatley most here do not view it like that and if a "legal" settlement is made that means the return of land there will be a lot of former residents of the UK whinging even more.



D

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 22:30

cyprusishome,



Could that be because we were advised otherwise by our advocates. (representatives of

the TRNC legal system.)Not to mention Government accredited Estate Agents.



Buy in the TRNC with these little bombshells...........sure!..the cheques in the post.....



Wingeing ex Brits?..You wonder why?



wynyardman

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 00:38

spent a few weeks looking around last year, saw all the properties, heard all the stories, decided it would be crazy to buy in nc. bought in turkey instead [bodrum penninsular] same weather, same price, direct flights but none of nightmares associated with nc.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 01:14

well done Eager

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 07:58

wynyardman,



Unfortunatley there never have been any government accredited estate agents and the scheme that has recently been invented has been so watered down the status quo prevails. In fact several of the agencies are operated from people on the run from the UK police, aside from GR that is.



We purchased here 3 years ago knowing all the potential problems regarding repossesion of land or the need to pay compensation. In fact our estate agent who is now on the run from TRNC law even confirmed the details as he saw them. We still bought.



Although I believe Private Pike is theoretically correct, the estate agents took advantage of that fact and made a fortune on the back of pre 1974 title.



How are all those footballers on Wynyard Park? I know that quite a few were buying there before we left. Many years ago played snooker on his lordships table, not that he knew we were visiting friends "below stairs".



As stated on many occasions we are having real problems here but would not change our decision.



South Durham born & bred.

rcroton


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 192

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 09:48

I have just bought last year again in n cyprus. For many years i had a vills on phase 1 Malibu beach up the Karpaz (10 years maybe). I sold it 2 years ago and bought on the bodrum peninsular.



Having spent one summer there it just wasnt for us even having turkish relatives and a great villa. You will find hundreds and hundreds of unfinnished / villas in bad states of repair over there.



That is now for sale. From the proceeds of a property sale in Dubai in November purchased a villa at the top of Catalkoy. Not off plan and from a very good estate agents (Ian Smith).



Went over there in Easter and it was great to be back after 2 years away. Now looking forward to spending the summer there to get away from the Middle East heat.



Rich

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 10:01

Hi cyprusishome,



It is nice to know that you come from a civilised area.



The present incumbent of the Hall is Sir John Hall of Metro Centre fame, so much has changed.



Many of the footballers have moved on (to make room for us more energetic virile, types) but.....back to the issue at hand.



Does the Government not have a list of approved Estate Agents?



Now then my friend.......When most people buy in the TRNC it is in good faith......



The Government is happy, for the advocates and approved Estate Agents to advise clients



as to the suitability of the properties that they are considering. In our case we were told



that Greeks (where appropriate) had exchanged land for that in the South or been



adequatley compensated. It was, at the time, the basis we made our purchase on.



NO WHERE WE WE TOLD THAT OUR PROPERTY MAY BE BARGAINED AWAY BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY. NO ONE TOLD US THAT IT WAS MORALLY QUESTIONABLE

TO BUY OUR NEW PROPERTY.



As I recall it, all I heard was, give us your cash, sign this (what turned out to be a USELESS

piece of paper) adhere STRICTLY to the payment schedule, wait 18 months(now overdue)

with no end in site, then the developer will at last speak to you, to tell you the bits of the contract he is not now prepared to provide, and will be extra. NO PAY, NO KEYS!



Now when one talks of moral corruption, where does the fault lie? Pte Pike tries to blame

the buyers. You take the stance that if a Greek turns up at your front door, you are happy to GIVE him your keys and shake his hand?



This Government presides over and approves of The Legal System. The advocates that

effectively operates it, and The Estate Agents who drive it forward. This Government are happy to trouser the millions of pounds that property development brings into this country.

This Government is happy to have a legal system that provides little or no protection to these

poor people who have been, and still are HOODWINKED on a daily basis.



Wingeing Brits? They should be grateful that they dont go around exacting revenge with a

knife as their weapon of choice. (if the cap fits)



The Russians are moving in now. It will be interesting to hear how they settle contractrual

disputes.



If you return to SW Durham, you are more than welcome to be our guests for drinks.



Even with this Motley Bunch we currently have in power, it would be nice for you to a least spend a short while in a true democracy.



I hate to think what distress you posting will have caused to people that are already traumatised , by recently gained knowledge, of the truth of the system that they have bought

into.



BUYING PROPERTY IN THE TRNC SHOULD COME WITH A PUBLIC HEALTH WARNING. IT CAN SERIOUSLY DAMAGE YOUR WEALTH.



DO NOT CONSIDER BUYING OFF PLAN until The Government Agree to ammend The

Specific Performance Law of 1885, and clarify The Pre74 Land/Property debacle.



EVEN THEN IT IS A GAMBLE........ but then the playing field is more level and at LEAST you are in with a FIGHTING CHANCE.



wynyardman

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 10:32

Too much for my sun dried brain!!! LOL



I would certainly not hand over keys to GC but if the UN and other useless bodies got together and brokered a deal that meant we had to hand over some cash we were well informed of that point 3 years ago. I know it is easy to get pulled in by the high power selling in a foreign country, look at all those that got conned into time share. We were lucky in knowing the name Gary Robb and kept well away from that debacle and the agents backing him. But that was not something that you would not know except by serious research. Do you remember the Fiesta Club in Stockton? Used to go in late sixties, that became G.R.'s and the place of his major crimes in the 1990's.



As for estate agents, we all thought the government had done well to set up an approved list earlier this year. Something that Marian Stokes for one was very pleased about. Then even she was mortified when the goal posts were moved to allow agents who did not make the cut back onto the list. No nmaes but certain high profile agents who failed to meet the criteria obviously must have called in some favours.



As for that useless bit of paper called a contract, 2 years on and we are still living on our building site!!!!!!!!!



Thanks for the kind offer, but this is home and I will not be returning to UK except in family emergency. Other half is going again in a couple of weeks for a bit of shopping. Amazing how many of us men folk here take that route, a couple of weeks peace and quiet!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 11:00

Jock1,



Your posting sounds to me like........................



"I'm alright, Jock!"



Wheres that fresh straw?



wyn

jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 12:00

I will fresh straw ye, use the other end!!!!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 12:05

Oh Jock,



You made my day.

She who shall be obeyed has told me I have to paint the bungalow(do you leave the windows out?)

I go to my duties, with a smile on my face!



John

jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 17:02

wyn i am going out for some training, will catch up with you later......



jock

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 18:05

Simbas,



You want to watch wackyjim and Jock! Bad types. I blame the drink.

I have heard that they are friends with HH.

They have invited me out for a drinking session, but I know who will end up paying.

I don't think I will turn up if that Hot Hornet is there. Fancy having to buy the fuel for her all night, the way she goes on.

Don't know how to tell The Lady Wyn. I've told her that I have the night porters job at the hotel, so I won't be going to bed, but I don't think that will wash, do you? I know. I

will get her counselled again!



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 19:01

Wyn,



But how do you know the property has been exchanged "with the consent of both parties"? You won't know that without tracing the GC refugee or his/her dependents. And I'm pretty sure no GC would give this consent. They are also backed by the Cyprus government who have safeguarded the TC refugee properties in the south and made it illegal to sell them. So where is the mutual consent? If an estate agent said a TRNC "exchange" title property was legal to buy and the buyer believed this without checking for themselves, they would be off their head IMO. A quick check at the Kyrenia Land Registry in Nicosia would reveal the legal owner.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 19:56

CiH,



I think your outlook is the most pragmatic in the circumstances.

brian24001


Joined: 23/03/2008
Posts: 606

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 20:38

Can I say, I think the question on this subject is slightly wrong, as it is basically asking if you would still buy "knowing what you know now", in other words having been (or tried to go) through the process etc, and now having the benefit of hindsight.

I think the question should be "Would you buy in 6-12 months time if you found the BB's first?"

In other words wading in with 'eyes wide open' instead of 'eyes wide shut' (in many cases).

I know many have posted and asked questions prior to buying, but i am sure the majority find the BB's in the afterlife.

So, shall I post the question?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 20:46

Pte Pike.



I bought in The TRNC



As a stranger to this country, I sought the advice of the (so called) professionals.

The appropriate agencies in these circumstances are the advocates (meant to uphold the laws of the TRNC,) and the Estate Agents ( the Government approved appropriate body for ReaL Estate sales)



I was assurred that the properties offered had free unencumbered title underwritten by the

Government of the TRNC. That where property had been surrendered it had been exchanged for like property/land, and or appropriate compensation was on offer.



I have travelled extensively and whichever Country I visit, I abide by the laws of that land

and if in doubt I seek the advise of the appropriate professional who advise on those laws.



That is what I did when I came to the TRNC!.



Now what are you suggesting? That we disregard the laws of any land that we may visit or reside within?, or if in doubt ignore the best legal advise available.



I abhor warfare! I am however a realist and accept that disputes arise from time to time.

Wherever there are disputes there is injustice. This has been the way of things since time immemorial. There has to be a solution eventually.



Now I know that we should "Give unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars. But who did Ceasar take it from in the first place.?



Land belongs to no one. It is just on Loan!



Please don't try and take the moral high ground with me! Many many people bought in good faith, when they bought property in the TRNC. They relied upon the Government appointed

representatives and professionals. They may well have been hoodwinked, but their motives were pure, and they hold respect for their fellow men, whatever race or creed.



You could best support these decent people by asking this Government to support an

ammendment to The Specific Performance Law of 1885, and at least give them a fighting chance to protect their investments.



You may well wish to withdraw your criticisms of them.



I remain,

Yours

wynyardman

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 22:05

Hi Wyn,



First off I think you're a sound bloke with a healthy sense of humour - BUT - I have to take issue with a few things. People have so many ways of checking out for themselves the reality of buying property in north Cyprus. When we started looking in the early 1990s there was no Internet, no British government warnings and you had to rely on common sense. In your post above you said:



"I was assurred that the properties offered had free unencumbered title underwritten by the Government of the TRNC. That where property had been surrendered it had been exchanged for like property/land, and or appropriate compensation was on offer."



I remember a smiling estate agent (I think there were four or five of them back then) saying exactly the same to us. When we asked him, not unreasonably, what would happen when the Greek Cypriot owner knocked on our door one fine morning asking for his house back, the estate agent replied: "The Greeks will never be back." Ten years later they WERE back knocking on people's doors, as a few members will be all too aware, and some of them HAVE been getting their homes back.



Some Brits had irate GCs at their doors saying: "Get out of my house." Writs were issued. Others had to squirm on their doorsteps while some old widow in black would say: "My husband's dying wish was to see his home again." In our case we were able to serve coffee and lemonade to the relatives of the GC who sold the property we now own to a TC in the 1950s. They took pictures of the alterations made over 50 years and we parted with hugs and kisses. What position would any right-thinking person rather be in?



You say you've travelled well and have abided with the local laws. So have I and so do I. But how can you compare other legal systems with north Cyprus? The place is a haven for corruption, dishonesty and inefficiency on a vast scale - especially in the property sector. There is next to no protection for buyers. The only thing going for them is cheapness - and we all know why property is cheap in the TRNC. It is not considered a safe nor wise investment by most people.



I do have sympathy for the "decent" people you speak of, but these are surely only the elderly or bewildered who were incapable of doing any research or asking any normal questions. You say you don't want me to take the high ground Wyn, but I can't live with the morals of an alley cat. We all know in our hearts when something's just wrong.





ES

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 22:13

A mixed response which is always good for newcomers to the site who can see a more balanced argument. What stands out is how much we all love the TRNC and the Turkish Cypriot people. Perhaps this is the reason for many of us deciding to purchase, even though there are ongoing issues about landownership and possible compensation. However what is putting many people off and creating the most damage is the insecurity that accompanies all purchases in the TRNC. The legal system really does need a shake up and until this is changed I would be hard pushed to recommend others to purchase property there. This is despite having had a superb builder and an efficient advocate. I feel that these people are also being let down by the government too. I was well aware of these forums prior to my purchase so went in well researched and knowing full well the possible consequences of my actions.What I do remember is that this site was visited by many over- optimistic people wearing rose-tinted glasses who were enthusiastically promoting purchasing in the TRNC and recommending their own builders,estate agents and lawyers. It took me sometime to realise that many of the folks posting were only in the initial stages of buying and had not hit any snags at that stage or experienced the legal system. Excitement and perhaps even day dreams of future life changes sometimes over-rules reality and commonsense? Where I had a lack of knowledge was not in which builder and advocate to use but in the legal system itself. Property purchasers and corruption can be experienced world-wide, the difference is that many other countries have legal systems and house purchase protocols that offer so much more protection. The PTP is a farce and the specific performance law needs to be implemented asap. The government needs to come clean about the pre 74 title deed issues. The long term effect of all this is that sales will fall and people won't touch the TRNC with a barge pole.The forums today ensure that future customers are aware of the pitfalls, people are far more truthful than in the past when it didn't seem appropriate to name and shame and share experiences. With a slump in sales the government will hopefully be forced to take action and deal constructively with the significant number of rogue builders, lawyers and estate agents and also change the laws to safeguard house purchasers. Until this happens I feel most people will look elsewhere. Could you blame them?

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 22:19

Spot on Sue as usual.

regards

p

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 22:24

Bradus,



As always the voice of reason and moderation.



Pvt Pike,



I respect your views and reasoned morality, if I cannot agree with your argument.



WHAT STANDS OUT IS THIS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GET A GRIP IF IT IS NOT TO LOOSE ITS MOST CASH GENERATIVE SECTOR....THEY KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO.



Thank you my friends for a balanced and positive debate.



wyn

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 22:29

How many posts do I need to get my four stars?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 23:10

Never mind the stars Brad, I suspect one or two individuals who tried as moderators on other forums to stifle balanced debate and silence those with other opinions are now hanging out here. It's good to know there's at least one BB that isn't run for happy clappies by a Scientologist wannabe or some dude plugging his pals' business and political interests. Y'all know who I mean.





ES

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 23:14

501 sue, nearly there well done some good reading.

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 23:15

Maybe the question should be......How many people would buy in nc if the prices were at the same level as other countries ?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 23:43

I agree that many people are swayed by the value for money (if all works out well) you get in the TRNC. However other countries prices have dropped dramatically and now you can get similar prices in many other countries. Certainly the Greek islands have some real bargains and Turkey is possibly cheaper depending on area. People obviously love the TRNC though as most visited several other countries before deciding on the TRNC.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 23:50

Bradus,



We came on holiday to the "jewel of the Mediterranean"

We bought speculatively like I suspect many others do. at the end of the week.

Now......in ....retrospect...........

My sole defence is that we acted in good faith.

We intend to live in the UK for our sins



wyn

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 23:50

Paul,

looking forward to meeting up. I will go to Marion's surgery at Pia Bella and see if I can get more info on pre 74 Title deeds so that we can get the full story. Advocate saying don't worry they might offer a lease instead for 99 years. Would be good if purchasers who have recently got PTP on pre 74 titles would post so as to give others a better picture. Similarly those who have been refused and don't know why.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 23:53

ps

Finally made my 501 post.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 00:02

I afraid don't like idea of leasehold unless at least 200years and would also expect rebate on price paid for freehold.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 00:04

Wyn,

You did what many of us did. At the end of the day, to some extent, its luck of the draw. Lets face it if things had turned out well we would all be happy with the TRNC.Its a really friendly and unspoilt island. I have learnt alot from this experience and met some lovely people so even if things don't turn out well, some good will have come out of it. (now I know thats one glass of wine too many) Look at how much fun we are having night after night on this forum!!!! I am optimstic that all will turn out well and we will one day be able to sit round the table and say to all those new buyers, "It weren't like that when we bought"

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 00:12

Sue,



This will probably leave you breathless but I do not know what type of land our villa is built on.



At the bottom of the bank at Esentepe, just back from the coastroad.



Any ideas?



wyn.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 00:15

Paul,

No I don't like the idea of being offered a lease on a property I thought I would own. I would certainly feel "conned" if this was the governments decision. However it was as usual a "nothing has been confirmed statement" so we can't do anything until it is a firm proposal and the government anounce their intentions. Will be interesting to see if we have anyone respond to my question re PTP approvals and refusals.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 00:39

Again Wyn you are not alone. The TRNC decided to class all title deeds simply as TRNC title deeds whereas in the past they were either:

1) Pre 74 Turkish Title - only owned by TC so no claim could be made by GC. Hence said to be 100% internationally recognised and the safest.

2) Exchange or Esdeger - land or house previously owned by GC. Somewhat a misleading title because the GC never agreed to exchange. Indeed the GC government have always prevented this from happening, refusing to sell all TC properties (they did knock many of them down though under the pretence of compulsory purchase orders) and only allowing GC to rent them. In theory all that happened is the government in the TRNC allocated land to the TC saying that they could exchange this for the land in the South they had left behind. The GC's played no part in this exchange.

3) TMD land. This was given to Turkish mainlanders for the part they played in the war effort. Many milatary personnel were given this. A one stage it was thought to be the unsafest title deed and many wouldn't touch it for this reason. Then estate agents began to tell all buyers that there was no difference in the title deeds and TMD was no riskier than all the others. So sales of TMD increased.

I feel, only based on the fact that you are in Estentepe that your villa will be on exchange land as this was largely Greek occupied. Did it not say in the advert? Is it not in your deeds? Anyone else bought there who could tell you?

Which title deeds you have purchased is down to choice. There are advantages and disadvantages with all 3. No one has a cyrstal ball and therefore we don't know what any settlement will bring and how this will effect compensation with the different deeds. Depends wether you believe that Turkey will pay everyones compensation or even the EU.People with pre 74 may have paid a premium. People with Esdeger and TMD may have to pay compensation. But thats something we will find out when a settlement is reached. I will do a search and see if I can get you this information.

Keep smiling

Sue

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 00:51

Thanks Sue,



You are very kind.



John

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 01:04

Brian 24001,



Brian Good Point.. Ask the question.



I only discovered this B/B post after we had splashed the cash!



wyn.

laptagal


Joined: 28/05/2008
Posts: 549

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 01:14

Really interesting and informative thread. Thanks to all who have cotributed and share their knowledge/experience. I asked what the land our villa in Lapta is built on was and told by the agent that it is 'exchange' land. However, don't recall seeing this in writing, now you come to metion it !!! Is there a registry that would have this info?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 13:27

Hi Bradus



Remember our friend Namus. I think he had a better insight on the Cypriot mentaility than I gave him credit for

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 19:24

I have spoken to Ian Shepherd from Cyprus Today re the important issue of the SP Law and I hope that he can publicise it in an attempt to raise awareness.



Until the SP Law is amended, we cannot sue the developer/builder for our title deeds and it affects the thousands of us who don't have them yet. Some people seem reluctant to sign petition after petition, but we have to try something constructive until we find something that the powers that be will sit up and take notice of.



Marian and HBPG can't do it on their own. Ismet or Wynyardman can't do it on their own. Collectively we have to do something. There is strength in numbers. Why should we all accept that we haven't got what we were promised in our contracts and we haven't received what we have spent our life savings on? I can't just sit back and do nothing. Please sign the petition. If it doesn't work then we'll just have to try something else.



Sibel

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 19:31

Hi Ilovecyprus,

Yes I remember Namus. I do like contributions from the Turkish Cypriot community as it offers us a different prospective on life. Its sad there are not may that contribute. I am sure we could learn alot from them.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 19:40

Sorry I meant to put "perspective" not prospective.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 19:44

I agree Bradus

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 20:17

ilovecyprus



Agree he had a fair knowledge of Cyprus and its issues....but I'm afraid his arrogance put me right off!!!! tried to make all of us look like idiots for even thinking about buying here and did not respect our freedom of choice in doing so



Jim

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 21:20

Anyone who seriously wants to know what the title of thelr property is (or what it's worth) needs to go to the Kyrenia District Land Registry in Acheon Str, Nicosia. Take a scale map of the plot along with anything the Turkish Cypriot Land Registry in Kyrenia has issued like a kocan. The staff there will be able to do a search and say whether anyone had made a claim against the property since 1974. This is what I did which is why I have two kocans - one of them legal - and a confirmation of ownership document.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 21:51

Not actually convinced Namus was TC

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 21:59

PtePike,

Are you saying that you got a TRNC kocan and one from the South as well.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 22:05

Ptepike.

This sounds interesting , but could you explain in detail , sorry not quite following you ?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 22:09

Bradus,



The original titles are held at the South Nicosia land Registry for the whole of Cyprus pre 1974.



So if you genuinly have a pre 1974 title, or more importantly a con man tries to sell you one, that is the only place you will find a definitive answer.



What Pt Pike has is a property with pre 1974 title, bought here and that he has had verified by the Cyprus Land Registry.



The Land registry here does not have any definitive records prior to 1974 that can be 100% verified.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 23:27

Bradus/Pipie,



I was looking for a long time for a suitable place in Kyrenia district and found what I was looking for in 2001 (been coming here since early 1990s). I used a TC estate agent and told him all I wanted was pre-74. At that time you could get an extract search at the TC Land Registry giving all the previous owners. Mine had a GC and his wife with 50/50 share selling to a TC and wife in the 1950s. Even so I still went around the coffee shops asking the old guys: Who used to live in the house?" They corroborated the land search. A couple of years ago I decided to visit the Cyprus Land Registry on the other side to get my legal title deed (kocani). They received me with some surprise when they found I was from the "occupied areas". But they compared my TC kocan and surveys map (same as theirs - Brit colonial 1918) along with their 1974 records they confirmed the place was mine and gave me a Reopublic of Cyprus title deed and certificate of ownership. This means if I wanted to I could bypass the TC system and sell my house on the open market.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/06/2008 00:13

Thankyou PtePike,

Useful and interesting information for those of us that have pre 74 Title Deeds.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
12/06/2008 00:16

Ptepike ,

''Crikey '' well done there .

stevie-d



Joined: 13/07/2007
Posts: 1420

Message Posted:
12/06/2008 10:42

If I knew in 2004 what I know now I would have bought a resale but at the time very few resales on the market, so bought of plans only got electricity 2 months ago still waiting for mains water 4 years after singing the contract,the locals I find are fantastic people they are very very helpful and friendly so this goes a long way in making up for the disapointment and frustration and the YARIN,YARIN has rubbed of on me it`s a nice feeling to slow down up until a year ago I was a heart attack waiting to happen so YAVAS, YAVAS I will get there in the end. I think TRNC is for me, I love Karsiyaka and the rest of Sunny Cyprus

stevie-d

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
12/06/2008 10:45

PtePike



What a lovly tale well done

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
12/06/2008 13:22

Guys,



It's also a bit of an adventure finding out about your property and gives you a better sense of ownership the more you find out about the place, who dug the well, etc etc. It also gives you an insight into the way the wheels turn on the "other side". For instance if you can prove ownership and have a residential address in Cyprus you can apply for an RoC ID card which doesn't give a huge range of benefits but is handy to have just the same.



BTW, I've been banned from another BB, called a GC stooge, insulted, and on one ocassion physically threatened for giving out information like the above. Thankfully the low-lifes seem to prefer their own company elsewhere.

mitsi


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 345

Message Posted:
14/08/2008 11:41

Don't you read Cyprus today? Pre-74 not worth paper they're written on any more.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
14/08/2008 12:39

pte pike



Sorry to hear that you have been abused in that way , what is it with these people , when you think what people went through for freedom of speech and this happens , know what it feels like though got a nutter trying to get on my case , still if it makes him feel happy !!!!! LOL

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
14/08/2008 16:06

mitsi

Can you explain for those who don't get the CT until a week later or not at all?

Martin

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/08/2008 17:56

pte, did the roc make you pay the tax? lots of people do not realize that lots of properties pre 74 were not registered at all. our village has always been a tc village. when we went to the roc land registry and looked in the village book( by the way you will need to know the greek name of the village pre 74) none of our village had been registered at all. when we questioned them regarding this they said that they were 80% sure our title was tc. pre 74. no property in our village was registered makes me think that it is also political. also that lots of gc's may have had the possibility of registering property that they didn't actually own. we know our title is definatley pre 74 but they still won't confirm it.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
14/08/2008 18:01

fire fighter, yes I have heard this from someone else.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/08/2008 18:47

the oldest man in our village is 94, it has always been a tc enclave. why won't the roc admit the fact?