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Lilli
Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 19:17 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 1 of 33 in Discussion |
| Potrugal Ireland Greece and Spain are in serious finincial trouble, as we all know. In view of the strikes held today do you beleive that the EU will bail these countries out. It apppears germany is coming up with a plan to help Greece. At what price. Will they be made to give up the euro, xx |
Activator
Joined: 23/12/2009
Posts: 44
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 19:54 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 2 of 33 in Discussion |
| Who bailed the pigs out- ooh ooh
Who bailed the pigs out-ooh ooh
wish I was out there at the mo, would have aired this ditty at the Grove maybe. |
newscoop
Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 20:21 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 3 of 33 in Discussion |
| The only reason they will get bailed out is to protect the euro.
Unfortunately! |
donga
Joined: 01/04/2009
Posts: 272
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 20:26 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 4 of 33 in Discussion |
| they will get bailed to keep the gravy train in Brussels going. |
AlsancakJack
Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 20:28 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 5 of 33 in Discussion |
| Lilli
Do not forget Italy, they also are having fiscal problems. |
girne 29
Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 20:30 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 6 of 33 in Discussion |
| Reading the EuroNews sites
No decision yet but.
Looks like, though the German man in the street will not be happy about it, Germany and others will bail them out, much as we had to bail out the bankers. Not just to protect the Eurozone
The bail out will be in the form of loan guarantees,as otherwise no one will lend Greece the 50 billion needed to pay her bills.
Greece's image has taken a hammering,especially in France and Germany ,not so much for her economy, but for telling lies. Greece has a deficit of 12.7%of GDP when the rules dictate 3% is the maximum allowed. Greece lied to avoid having to taken action such as she will be forced to take now.
Europe will now take anything Greece says with a pinch of salt.
This from the US market,
"You've seen a flight to quality, so the funding costs in France and Germany have fallen and the euro has weakened. So the events that are going on in Europe are ironically probably quite good for core Europe," Mowat said.
'silver li |
girne 29
Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 20:32 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 7 of 33 in Discussion |
| Sorry, should have finished with 'every cloud has a silver lining', |
Lilli
Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 20:43 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 9 of 33 in Discussion |
| Hi AJ I forgot about Italy. Girne will it just be Greece they bail out. They way I read your msg it will or should be a silver lining then. thank you xxx |
Lilli
Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 20:47 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 11 of 33 in Discussion |
| Can see they all lining up now Coop. I may buy it myself xxxxx |
winslow
Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 332
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 21:25 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 13 of 33 in Discussion |
| Msg Lilli
The European Union is at present primarily a political union of 27 members established by the Treaty of Maastrichtit and has 5 hundred million citizens. The EU has a single market through a coherant system of laws applying to all ensuring free movement of people and bussines. Only 16 of its members have adopted the euro. İt abolised passport controls under the Schengen Agreement between 22 EU and 3 non-EU members. The European Parliament is elected every 5 years. İts institutions are the .Council of the Europe, European Council, European Commission, Court of Justice. And the European Central Bank. As İ said in my first statement it is primarily a political harmonisation and not an economical union as it was supposed to be… it is flawed at present as we are seeing with the problems of the piigs. And the reason is this.....
Con.. |
winslow
Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 332
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 21:26 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 14 of 33 in Discussion |
| Con..
The central bank does not control the fiscal and financial budjetary needs of member states. İt imposed rules under Maastrichtit and leaves it to each member state to work within those rules or else theoretically they can be punished. However when times are hard national interest come to the fore and the rule book …goes over the shoulder. Untill the Central Bank Controls the financial and fiscal affairs of all member states the rules will constantly be broken and the …books will be cooked. The biggest fear for politicans is handing the responsibilty for their budjets to an independent Central Bank of Europe. So in times of elections they cannot buy votes with promises of increased spending. So the EU will only ever truly be a union once it can finally economically harmonise via one Central bank with members states spending what they are allocated according to agreed budjetary needs… not an easy policy to administer.
Winslow. |
No1Doyen
Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 21:53 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 15 of 33 in Discussion |
| I'm sure the EU have a duty to their members. I don't doubt that all member states will be asked to 'cough up' a bit more. |
Lilli
Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 22:32 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 16 of 33 in Discussion |
| oh winslow its so complicated. Do you think they will devalue the euro with all the member states in trouble xxx |
Lemtich
Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 23:27 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 17 of 33 in Discussion |
| Hi Cooper re. Message 10
I tried to post the link to News Biscuit as a new topic yesterday (9th) but nothing happened.
Curious
Lem |
Lilli
Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081
Message Posted:
10/02/2010 23:29 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 18 of 33 in Discussion |
| Hiya Lem maybe they had to wait for a press release first. You Ok xxxxxxx |
Lemtich
Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 00:04 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 19 of 33 in Discussion |
| Hi Lilli
I'm ok. Have been through a lot in the last 6 months. Through it all now. Looking forward to flying into Ercan in July for a month in my other home. See you and Guido for some super meals. Get the Strongbow in!
Lem x |
girne 29
Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 00:10 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 20 of 33 in Discussion |
| Lilli message 9.
In answer to your question. Greece is in serious trouble ,whereas the others in trouble and are taking, or will take fiscal action that is thought will alleviate the problem.
For Greece its way past that, nothing they do on there own will be sufficient,and what little, relative to the problem, is being attempted is already being resisted by the Greek population.
Here is a link to a serious German News site,which explains a bit better .
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5236373,00.html
while we are on the subject, this site - http://www.world-newspapers.com/europe.html will be off interest, it has english versions of loads of newspapers from every country in Europe,including Turkey. Just click on country's name.
I know some anti Eurozone people think Euro crashing is good,but it should be pointed out the level of exposure of world stockmarkets and Banks to the Euro and Eurozone, would make collapse of Lehmans look like a minor event. |
Lilli
Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 00:22 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 21 of 33 in Discussion |
| girne some serious reading. Leamans Enron etc, they all lied and cheated like Greece. Thank you for the links I will study them. Its all look really bad. Im worried for my son in law a stockbrooker , I worry every day for his future as it is my daughters and my grandchildrens future. I have read that billions has been taken out of greece already as they the big boys knew and were told to. I thank you for enlightening me xxxxxxx |
Corbo
Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 07:58 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 23 of 33 in Discussion |
| Who Bails Out the Bail Outers? Where does this endless stream of money come from? Oh yes I forgot. They QE it..ie-press a button and invent it. How is it paid for. By reducing the value of money now; peoples savings are indirectly robbed and then the future generations will pay for decades, even centuries. Also deliberately generated inflation will wipe out debt and savings soon. This is the most selfish generation in the history of humanity. Many of us can plead ignorance and say but it's nothing to do with me, but it is for allowing this to happen. For voting for these fools, for standing idly by and moaning. |
winslow
Joined: 09/04/2009
Posts: 332
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 12:12 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 24 of 33 in Discussion |
| Msg Lilli
No (the invisible hand) definitely not devalue the Euro the reason; Devaluing currencies is a shorterm solution to boost exports and growth. However you import inflation as your imports are more expensive relative to the weakness of your currency now you have reduced its value by devaluing to boost exports. The Germans hate inflation they have a history prior to the Second World war that’s why inflation targets are always 2/3% it creates stability. It protects the value of money as an asset class especially as corbo put it. It can wipe out the value of savings and pensions. The correct way to solve the problem in this instance is the medicine of austerity, freeze spending, raise taxes and reduce public sector empolyment which also has a negative effect on growth. İt is hoped that the private sector slowly picks up the slack via becoming more efficient developing new technologies and creating empolyment boosting the tax intake thus reducing public debt.
Winslow. |
jimmy
Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 251
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 13:41 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 25 of 33 in Discussion |
| I think the money problems we are seeing are getting to big to solve. They are spinning the plates but it's getting harder & harder. Trying to inflate the way out of debt wont work now cos the numbers are just to big. I don't think anyone has the answer.
UK debt clock = http://www.debtbombshell.com/
USA debt clock http://www.usdebtclock.org/ to see the debt racking up in the USA |
jimmy
Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 251
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 13:44 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 26 of 33 in Discussion |
| Also the situation in Iran not looking too good............... |
Corbo
Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 13:52 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 27 of 33 in Discussion |
| I think you may be right Jimmy about no one having the answers. The problems are obvious but the answers, if they exist, require hard decisions and some major changes. No one in power is admitting the errors and cutting the cloth according to the situation. They all think they can get out of debt with more debt. It's crazy. |
LOvegod
Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 14:36 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 28 of 33 in Discussion |
| remember crash or no crash the politicians get paid and funnily enough they all carry diplomatic immunity. wonder why ? |
girne 29
Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488
Message Posted:
11/02/2010 15:10 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 29 of 33 in Discussion |
| newscoop
It doesnt matter what you think about the EU .We are in it now and have to do work accordingly.
This comment sums it up "Those of you who believe that the Eurozone alone should sort out this mess and that the UK will remain unaffected are living in cloud-cuckoo land."
The following comment applies whether we were in the EU or not.Switzerland also has 20% of GDP exposure.
"UK banks are exposed to these countries(PIGS) to the tune of 16 per cent of gross domestic product .that’s just under £250bn of exposure, so if these economies topple, we can’t afford to smirk and be smug about the fact that we avoided joining the euro. We would be engulfed in a nasty, nasty financial crisis of our own."
Also it should be pointed out that far from us being so smart in being out the Eurozone.,the Euro will have to drop 25% before we become better by staying out. The £ can only get better against the Euro by virtue of the fact that its so bad ,there is nowhere else to go but |
littlejohn
Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316
Message Posted:
12/02/2010 02:43 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 30 of 33 in Discussion |
| We've got one half of the world starving or in war situations while the others are living it up in shit houses like Dubai and the Yanks using up oil like there was no tomorrow.
And the bankers paying themselves massive salaries and bonuses despite their incompetence.
And gentlemen like Crozier causing mayhem in his wake moving from one massive salary to another.
Then we have the destruction of the rain forests at an alarming rate for whatever reason - usually to grow beef for Macdonalds ( Joke - not )
I should imagine we will eventually implode into a state where we all disappear up our own arses like the Incas etc.and we deserve it!!! |
Corbo
Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627
Message Posted:
12/02/2010 07:04 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 31 of 33 in Discussion |
| This article sums things up pretty well for me. Even if the writer is a Gold bug I think overall it is correct. Far closer to the truth than the garbage we are being fed by the mainstream media. When it all comes tumbling down I'll laugh aloud at the so called experts who say, 'but no one saw this coming.' This is probably the most predictable easy to forsee scenario there is.
http://matterhornassetmanagement.com/2010/02/11/sovereign-alchemy-will-fail/ |
Corbo
Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627
Message Posted:
12/02/2010 07:12 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 32 of 33 in Discussion |
| Can anyone explain why the major countries have established this policy of bailing out countries, banks and corporate institutions who have irresponsibly mishandled their finances or through corruption created economic ruin for themselves?
Such practices can only further weaken the financial stability of any country doing it.
Governments always claim they lack the funds to solve the most dire internal public problems facing their citizens while always coming up with massive funds to provide "Welfare" for Big Business,Banks and corrupt governments and political institutions.This program of massive Welfare for the Rich is diabolical.
cont.. |
Corbo
Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627
Message Posted:
12/02/2010 07:12 | | Join or Login to Reply | Message 33 of 33 in Discussion |
| It demonstrates a total contempt and disregard for the dire circumstances and conditions imposed upon the ordinary citizens.To use their tax dollars on anything other than improving their lot first and foremost is nothing less than criminal. The average person who handles money irresponsibly and then faces ruin cannot expect their governments to bail them out.It will never happen.So the above policy is clearly taking 2nd and 3rd class passenger life jackets and using them to save the rich and powerful.
Meanwhile there is a massive and unavoidable fiscal iceberg looming in the distance and the rest of us are being left to our own devices. |
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