Its the 20th anniversary of the release of Nelson Mandela

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 21:22

As Mr Mandela celebrates his release from prision do you think South Africa has become a different place now. Did ararthied work. Is any other country going through the same situation, like the TRNC not being regonized and having human rights. His belief that SA s were SAs wether white or black xxx

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 21:35

This was his closing statement at his trial in 1964.



"During my lifetime I have dedicated myself to the struggle of the African people. I have fought against white domination, and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die."



He was true to his ideals. A great man.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 21:40

Hiya Bill He is a great man, Im so very lucky to have had the pleasure of meeting him. His words could be so relevant here xx God bless you Nelson. Just watched the new Morgan Freeman movie, you would swear it wah the man himself about the rugby. I think its called Invictuis x great movie xxxxxxxx

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 21:42

"It always seems impossible until it's done." -- Nelson Mandela

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 21:44

Perhaps we could get Nelson to come over and take control of the talks. I'm sure he could speed things up.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 21:45

my thoughts exactly xxxx

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 21:51

I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.



Nelson Mandela.

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 22:09

"Winnie your just a bloody trouble maker, now p#ss off."

Nelson Mandela.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 22:42

Classifications are not inherently racist. Hence "native and "foreign", in a sociobiological context, are not racist. It is at the next level, political, when different rules are applied to one or the other, where racism can come into play. So, did I divide South Africa between these two identifiable groups, or did the practitioners of Apartheid do this by choosing one as more deserving of certain rights?



Are you having trouble accepting that one group sought to rule over the other? Or, are you having trouble with the parallels that in both cases SA (Belgians, Brits) and Cyprus (Turkish), it was the one group, commonly classified as "foreign", which invaded and imposed Apartheid on the other (native or Black or Greek Cypriot)?



In essence, you would, I hope, agree that to take sociobiological distinctions and segregate, unjustly, is wrong. Where you jump the gun, in order to accuse me (wrongly), is that I would take these distinctions to a political degree, and do what the white

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 22:45

supremacists did in SA, or Turkey has done in Cyprus, and give one group rights over the other.



BTW. Isn't it the foreigners (Belgians, Brits etc) who themselves called the Blacks "natives" and sought to enslave them so that they can steal their land? Isn't this the parallel which Turkey practices in Cyprus?



Quote:

They are all SA - just ask Nelson Mandella, who never resorted to the kind of racist rehtoric that you do here along the lines of "we are 'real' SA and they are just foreign invaders". He never claimed that 'true' SA would only ever be free once the 'foreign invaders' were removed from SA. He saw and sees, quite rightly, white SA as SA and not 'foreign invaders'.





Mandela resorted to more than mere rhetoric when Apartheid was rife



Even so, Mandela did not have to contend with a second wave of "invading foreigners" as we have suffered here in Cyprus. Who knows what "terrorism" he may have unleashed on reinforcements to Apartheid once the struggle for freed

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 22:47

Liz. You swallowed a dictionary? )

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 22:51

freedom . Hiya Bill just learning a new skill copy and paste from the other sides forum. i dont think i got it all though and now its disappeared from thier forum. do you think they know im cheating xxx

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 23:03

Mr. Mandela is undoubtedly an extraordinary man. Unfortunately I have to add that I didn't meet many South Africans like him when I traveled that country. Progress in South Africa - if any - 20 years after his release, is more than slow. And I fear SA will eventually go the same way as all its neighbouring countries. Until things improve I have to agree with this: "Africa is a lost continent" (author unknown to me). Mr. Mandela deserved a more optimistic view but the truth is the truth.

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 23:16

South Africa has made more progress in the last 20 years than the previous 200 mainly down to Mandela and his influence. The rivers run deep in terms of their problems and issues of race and equality. Mandela will be remembered for many a year as a great man who feared no-one and stood by his principals.................

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 23:21

Well said Steve.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 23:23

RE msg 14, Blackpoolfan: Could you please give me some examples of the progress?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 23:26

I have to agree as i love the great man but just been on the south forum wherby they have given statistics since and they are frightening.rape of babies to get rid of thier aids etc wher ever they got the figures its scary xxxxxxxxxxxx

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 23:39

Some scary facts: South Africa has the highest number of people infected with HIV in the world. Criminal leaders told the population for many years to eat garlic to fight Aids/HIV.



Interpol have South African murder statistics that are roughly double the official South African state statistics. South Africa ranks second (and probably even first) for assault and murder (by all means) per capita and first for rapes per capita.



The white rulers of South Africa made the same error as in many other African countries: they didn't prepare the black population for their (rightful) freedom. The black population on the African continent is now paying the price. Sudden freedom doesn't always mean progress.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
11/02/2010 23:49

sad hans, just reading the report on aids , they rape babies in the hope they get rid of aids. whats happened to education, you are so right. I have a few South african customers all white who fled the country. Thier stories make me cry. Not for what happened to thier country but personal. However they love the country

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
12/02/2010 11:57

RE msg 14: Still interested in your reply, Blackpoolfan, to my msg 16.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
12/02/2010 17:31

Blackpoolfan?!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
12/02/2010 17:54

Hans, huge progress has been made in overcoming the legacy of apartheid.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
12/02/2010 18:11

RE msg 22, No1Doyen : Too easy, Bill. Facts please. Progress? Where, what?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
12/02/2010 18:13

Hans.Research from the Bureau of Market Research (BMR) revealed that black households in the highest income group (R750 thousand plus) grew dramatically during the past decade.



Thats progress, and a fact! )

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
12/02/2010 18:15

South Africans' living conditions are steadily improving, according to Statistics South Africa's latest General Household Survey, which registered increases in school attendance, satisfaction with health services, and ownership of houses, televisions and mobile phones.



Access to electricity and proper sanitation has also improved, the survey found, although piped water services are lagging. Hunger levels remain low, while the number of South Africans receiving state social grants has more than tripled since 2002.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
12/02/2010 18:19

Two southern African states - South Africa and Lesotho - have leapt into top 10 ranking of countries where women face the least discrimination, according to the World Economic Forum.



South Africa sprang from 22 to number six, while Lesotho climbed from 16 to number 10 in the WEF's Global Gender Gap Index which measures economic participation and opportunity, educational attainment, political empowerment, health and survival of women in 134 countries

brandysour


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
12/02/2010 21:05

It is a shame his ex wife could not hold it together when he was in jail there was a program a few weeks ago about her and how she change over the years formed a football team that never played had people beaten up to keep them quite of things she was up to and these where her own colour but it was the whites was giving her a hard time. I think he his well rid of her nothing but a embarrassment to him.

BigMart


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 423

Message Posted:
12/02/2010 21:07

One mans terrorist is another mans freedon fighter.