Divorce + Property in TRNC ?

cleos


Joined: 13/03/2008
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 22:24

Hello

I have been asked by a friend (who has had to return to UK urgently) how she will stand with the property they own (with hubby) here in TRNC if they decide to divorce ?

Property is in only hubbies name (had not gotten round to altering it ) but was purchased together. Many of sterling transfers came from her UK a/c and not his.

The Kocan (temp until parcelisation finalised) is in his name . This is why she is worried.

KDV and lots of other bills/water connection/electric connection paid by my friend. She also purchased a new car ( for him !) and paid all container fees on UK goods and import duty on another car.

I have feelin that it doesn't look too good as far as she/her interest is concerned but thought i should check with forum for any advise/views (please only facts as she is already distraught - as too are the 2 little children - and could not cope with wrong info when she is so down and back in UK with nothing ).

Hoping someone can advise as she cannot get back at the minute to speak to TRNC "advocate " and not able to find any solicitors in UK that can help.

Thanks from her very sad friend x

Chris


Joined: 26/03/2008
Posts: 454

Message Posted:
09/06/2008 22:40

Hi Cleo

Noticed last time I was there that Naomi Mehmet specialises in divorce as well now! So it must be an issue that is being addressed, especially if the two parties have bought in separate names( I know one lady who renewed her passport in her maiden name so they could buy two properties!)



Dont suppose she will give free advice though..........



Chris

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 02:12

According to TRNC law any property *bought after marriage*, one third goes to husband,one third to wife and the remaining third is at the discretion of the judge depending on the circumstances as far as it can be proved. Although the law says nothing about property abroad i.e. UK, it is fairly safe to say that the court can rule only on property in TRNC.

ismet

Zuhre


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 11:13

Hi Cleos

My husband and I divorced in UK. I owned one property in Cyprus, he owned a different property in Cyprus. We jointly owned family home in UK. We have 3 kids together. He wanted 50% of property in UK and his house in Cyprus so half of everything. He didn't get it! Judge here awarded me UK house, my house in Cyprus and 40% of his property in Cyprus, plus child maintenance and spousal maintenance. The Judge will look at the property in Cyprus as your friend's and her husbands irrespective of who paid for it, provided it was purchased when you were married, Judge will take into consideration how long they were married, does she have her own income etc. My Judgement stated as ex had majority share in joint house, property would be sold when he wanted it and I would keep my 40% of sale price. Factors such as why property was purchased will be taken into consideration also, ie., was it purchased as a family home/holiday home or an investment. Obviously this information applies only if they are getting divorced in UK. I represented myself in Court and if I can be of any further help please email me on advocate67@hotmail.co.uk . Please send my sympathies to your friend it's an awful time for her and her children. Amazing how selfish some men can be when it comes to divorce and how they quickly forget they have children to think about. Good luck

Nastynipper


Joined: 08/06/2008
Posts: 171

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 12:06

Just a mo.....women use their childre ans tools if a woman wants a divorde then leave the kids with dad and let him have the house and cash.

Zuhre


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 12:39

Hello Nastynipper



idiot

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 12:56

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1025359/Justice-4-father-says-daughter-rooftop-protester.html



WHAT A FARCE



Justice 4 my father, says daughter of rooftop protester



By Barbara Davies

Last updated at 12:02 AM on 10th June 2008



Comments (0) Add to My Stories





No one condones invading private property, but read the moving story of the man on Harriet Harman's roof who spent years fighting for the right to see his daughters ... only to find THEY wanted to live with HIM





On Sunday morning, just hours before he scrambled on to the roof of Harriet Harman's home dressed as a superhero, Mark Harris kissed and hugged his daughter Lisa and set off from the South Devon home they share.



'I told him I was proud of him,' says Lisa, a 21-year-old wages clerk. 'I said that however long he managed to stay up there, I would be cheering him on and sending him my love.'



In the end, Mark, who staged his weekend protest with fellow Fathers 4 Justice campaigner Jolly Stanesby, stayed on the roof of Ms Harman's elegant period home in Herne Hill, South London, for ten hours - an hour for every year that his own case wasn't resolved by the courts.





When he climbed down on Sunday night, he was immediately arrested and detained by police, leaving Mr Stanesby perched precariously on the slates, stubbornly insisting he wouldn't descend until Mark had been released.



But then as Lisa points out, brushes with the law are nothing new to her 49-year-old father. During the decade he spent fighting for full access to his three daughters after his wife walked out and took them with her, the driving instructor faced 133 court appearances before 33 different judges, two stints in jail and went on a hunger strike.



The irony is that Mark's case is now resolved: Lisa, his eldest, now lives with him. So does his 17-year-old daughter. Another daughter, aged 15, lives nearby with her mother, but visits at least twice a week. He now has everything he fought for.



But he still donned Superman's leotard, tights and cape because while he is free to talk about the horrors he suffered at the hands of the British justice system, other fathers are not.



Last year, the Lord Chancellor ruled that family court proceedings must remain secret and therefore, argue some, unaccountable.





Labour MP Harriet Harman leaves her house as Fathers 4 Justice campaigners Mark Harris and Jolly Stanesby, circled, continue their protest on the roof of her house



'He hasn't forgotten what he went through,' says Lisa. 'He still has a lot of anger about it and he wants to do what he can to help other fathers in the same position.'



If it seems strange that Mark is still angry about his own ordeal, then as Lisa is quick to remind anyone who asks, until she was 16 - and legally able to choose for herself which parent she wanted to live with - she hardly knew her father at all.



Her life has been blighted by years of enforced separation from the father she clearly adores.



'Most people look back on their childhood and remember family days out at the seaside and birthday parties,' she says. 'My recollections are of Mum, sour-faced in a suit, heading off for yet another court appearance and endless interviews with social workers and child psychologists, all telling me that I didn't have to see my dad if I didn't want to.'



Speaking to the Mail on a previous occasion, Mark explained: 'I missed so much. They took my daughter's childhood, her formative years, from me. Lisa is 21 now. I didn't see her between the ages of ten and 16. An awful lot happens in a child's life in that time and I missed it all.'



##### Lisa, too, has suffered. For years, she believed her father had abandoned her and couldn't understand why. #######



'There were times when I needed a father figure - for reassurance and advice. There just wasn't one

Hot Hornet


Joined: 03/06/2008
Posts: 343

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 12:57

ummm nasty and a nipper eh - your profile says you are female and your email address has 'chap' - are you a confused? That comment was a bit below par don't you think - are you British?

This is a very serious issue and Zuhre well done for detailing your own personal experience, as it can't have been nice.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 12:57

nastynipper , what a crass remark

Zuhre


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 13:23

Hi Hot Hornet



Thank you and your're right, the whole process was awful and unfortunately my ex continues to make my life hell even tho he has remarried. I fought with everything I had to ensure security for my daughters, the courts saw this and made fair decision. The ex hates me for this despite fact he earns 6 figure income. Point I was trying to make to Cleos is that Judge will take everything into consideration especially where children are concerned.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 14:49

hi cleo , i hope your friend and her children , have everything that they are entitled to , it cant be very nice going through a divorce , but to have all that added stress that she is being put through , by not knowing what to expect in terms of her and her children's future , her ex surely can see what's happening , they maybe heading for divorce , but he should be doing all he can to make it as less traumatic as it can be , for his children at least , and should support his wife whilst going through these bad times financially and emotionally , his wife's well being is paramount at this moment in time , as it is her that has to make sure the children's needs are being met and to maintain their wellbeing . by the sounds of it zuhra has been through it herself , so she will be the one to offer sound advice , i really hope everything turns out well for your friend and her children, its good she has a friend like you , that's taking such an interest in her .

good luck ,regards simbas

Zuhre


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 14:51

Hi Littlenige



Having been through numerous contact hearings, the whole process is traumatic and only the children suffer. The countless times my children were interviewed by social workers etc., has left lasting emotional scars resulting in two of them having counselling and absolutely refusing to see their father. Some fathers genuinely want to be with their children, whilst others see no problem in psychologically scarring their children for the simple pleasure of making the ex wife's life unbearable. I should know! The chap you refer to had at one time, his rights severed by the Judge. Obviously there are facts here not we don't know because if a Judge takes such drastic action in denying a father access, he must have very good factors supports his decision and ultimately he will make a decision in the children's best interest at the time. I do feel for fathers who are constantly fighting for access but courts look at facts not emotions.

cleos


Joined: 13/03/2008
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 14:51

Zuhre and Elko

Thanks for your help. I shall be speaking to her tonight and will pass on this info. Zuhre - would it be ok if i give her your email address ? As far as i know they will be divorced in UK - but she had been told (before her hubby before she left the Island !) that UK can only deal with property in UK and not here.

Elko - when you say if property purchased after marriage - what determines the point when purchase took place - when contract signed without PTP ?-when PTP agreed ? - when Kocan transferred to his name ?. I ask this because although they have been together ages and were right from their 1st visit here they married after contract signed but before PTP and Kocan. Nothing is ever simple is it !!!

Once again thanks for help.

cleos


Joined: 13/03/2008
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 15:10

Nastynipper

Maybe we should rename you Sadnbitter - maybe there are personal reasons for your reply but you should not post generalised unhelpful and uncalled for remarks about others personal situations that have nothing to do with you.

I think there is a thread on this BB about "counselling" - is it something you have ever considered - i have heard it can be very useful to help individuals move on with their lives - or maybe in your case even "Get a life".



I apologise if my reply offends any other BB member.

Zuhre


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
10/06/2008 15:16

Hi Cleos



Of course you can pass my email address onto your friend.



I also was told by family and business minded people in Cyprus that UK Judge would not, and could not take into consideration property overseas in a divorce settlement. That simply is not true, I'm proof of that. Your friend is a mother to his children, the children are living with her, the law is there to protect mothers in this situation. I know exactly what she is going through, not only will your friend be emotionally distraught, she will be worrying about hers and her children's financial security, she will be feeling powerless and scared. if I can be of any help whatsoever I will do my best.

lesleyd



Joined: 05/06/2007
Posts: 265

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 15:05

Hmmm maybe nastynipper is s shemale hornet.

Hot Hornet


Joined: 03/06/2008
Posts: 343

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 15:12

oh come on - give me some credit - I chose to pick a fight with someone on a subject which was clearly a factually based argument and one I have some knowledge of, and one which I knew I could win!! I do not dig at things and people when I have not one iota of a clue!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
11/06/2008 15:36

Cleos,

Since the Kocan is after marriage contract, your friend will be on safe ground.



Zuhre:

I am really interested in the proceedure that you followed. So you got a divorce in UK and the judge gave orders for some immovables which was in the name of your husband to be transferred to your name. What exactly happened? I presume that you hired a lawyer in Cyprus and registered the UK decision here. Then what? If your husband did not oppose it, it should be no problem but if your husband did really have a good lawyer here to oppose the enforcement of UK decision here, I can see lots of hurdles ahead. Can you enlighten me please?

ismet

Zuhre


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
13/06/2008 15:51

Hi Cleos.



I did not contact a solicitor in Cyprus and I represented myself in Court in the UK. My ex and I verbally agreed we would walk away with one property each (we owned two properties next door to each other). In Court Judge took all factors into consideration ie I've been stay at home mother for 15 years, never worked whilst married. Ex divorced me. He had excellent high paying job so future finances not a problem for him. We had no savings (like most families!) so I could not be awareded lump sum payment. It was not an option to sell family home in St Albans. Told Judge 2nd house was for investment purposes only, which seemed to make a difference.



In final order it states, ex is awarded 60% myself 40%, and property to be sold when he wanted it to be sold.



He gave me a letter addressed to Noyanlar stating he owned 60% and wanted property sold which I took to Cyprus last summer. The buyer paid my ex's 60% directly to him and I received remaining 40%.



Obviously in a divorce the Judge looks at the combined assets, the properties in cyprus were purchased by remortgaging UK home. Whether that makes any difference, I don't know. The purchasers instructed a solicitor to check out ex's letter and knew of court order. They were just pleased to be getting a house at a very reduced rate!



If you want any more specifics, let me know, if I can help I will

Zuhre


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
13/06/2008 15:52

Sorry previous post meant for Elko2!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
13/06/2008 16:18

Zuhre,

Thanks for the details. As I suspected it was an agreed arrangement and in no way set a precedence for others.

ismet

Zuhre


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
13/06/2008 18:28

The Judge disregarded our agreement and split property according to what was fair. I would never say this is set as a precedent however anyone in my situation should not listen to advice from Cypriots who say the Judge won't take into consideration property over there. He will.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
13/06/2008 19:13

Zuhre,

There are too many technicalities that cannot be discussed here. All I am saying is that I have not seen any judgement given in UK over property in TRNC enforced here and vice versa and I have serious doubts that it can be done. In your case you were lucky enough for your ex husband to honour the judgement in UK and sign over the papers for property in TRNC. In your case there were further complications and more room for manouverve for your husband because he did not even have the title deeds. Any way, I am sure it was an ordeal for you and glad its over.

ismet