A Question for Hans...

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 15:30

A basin attributed to Hugh IV of Cyprus with an inscription in Arabic which reads: "Made by the order of Hugh, favoured by God, the one at the vanguard of the elite troops of the Franks, Hugh of the Lusignans".



Where is this basin kept?

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 15:32

Next to the toilet?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 15:32

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_IV_of_Cyprus



and I know I'm not Hans... ;)

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:25

OK then Mark. What's the inscription at the base of the basin? (it's not on wikipedia by the way)





For Vicky - It's not Armitage Shanks! )

Hatty


Joined: 13/07/2008
Posts: 260

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:33

I have just nipped upstairs for a look. The only other inscription I can see in french is "Most high and mighty king Hugh of Jherusalem and Cyprus may God protect him" but this is on the lip, the base has a zodiac on it

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:34

Work of the Master, Muhammed ibn al_Zain ?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:34

Hatty & Mark. Both wrong.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:36

You're right, Bill!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:36

No Bill,you ain't asking the right question ... ;P



Have you SEEN it at the Louvre ? !

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:43

The base is decorated with a zodiac: six planets encircling the sun, and twelve planets associated with astrological signs.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:49

Wrong........

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:52

...Have you SEEN it at the Louvre ? !



Mark it's not visible as the basin stands on it's base.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 16:52

open at other end ?

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 17:08

Bill,

Are you saying that the base is NOT decorated with a zodiac: six planets encircling the sun, and twelve planets associated with astrological signs?



Fiona

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 17:14

Fiona, are you sure you want to submit this as your final answer?

Hatty


Joined: 13/07/2008
Posts: 260

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 17:15

God's servant, Abd-al-Mailk

Emir of the faithful, may God's mercy

be upon him, from Iliya to this

milestone, it is eight miles



No idea if this is correct or not

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 17:17

No1 Doyen wrote "Fiona, are you sure you want to submit this as your final answer?"



Not really bothered either way, Bill.

The only other thing I can think of is 'Wrong way up' lol

Fiona

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 21:12

) ) ).......

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 21:14

Bill, you'd better hope Hans tells us before we forget the question ....

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 21:31

It's worse than Millionaire! lol

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 21:36

RE msg 19: Mark, you don't expect me to contradict almost all previous messages, do you?! I'm reading this thread in amazement...

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 21:41

Hans. You can phone a friend If you wish. )

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
15/02/2010 22:37

Is it Armatage shanks

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 11:11

Bill,

Just out of interest... the answer??? lol

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
22/02/2010 22:29

Bill & others: this brass basin or bowl was made for and owned by the Lusignan King Hugh IV (1324-1361) - it's now in the Louvre, the famous museum in Paris, France.

http://www.allcrusades.com/BB_pics/brass_basin_hugh_IV_72.jpg

At the time it was so expensive that only Kings, Sultans, Caliphs and other such potentates could afford them.

Now for the inscription, which is 4x repeated inside and 4x outside - but they are all the same. The artist knew that only a few learned men could read his ornamental inscriptions (Gothic characters), so he didn't bother too much to make his characters clear and legible. The translation of the text in English is: "This piece has been made for his Most High Majesty, his Noble Eminence, by the master Hugh, who has tasted the benevolence of him who appears like astar to religion and to the kings of the Franks, Hugh of Lusignan, may his power endure for ever."

Hope this answers your question?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
22/02/2010 22:55

[msg 25 continued]

My source is a really fascinating ten page note on this brass basin by Henry-René d'Allemagne, who consulted his erudite colleagues, the orientalists Clermont-Ganneau (Member of the Institute) and Max van Berchem (French Archaeological Mission in Cairo).

By the way: the inscription in Gothic characters running round the lip of the basin is slightly different - I'll make a scan tomorrow.

P.S. I'm still very, very angry by the barbarian comment in message 2...