What would you have done?

AndyR



Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 317

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 10:26

On the BBC breakfast program this morning .....



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8516499.stm



Assisted suicide (or whatever term you choose to call it by) is in the news regularly these days. What would you have done in this guys situation?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 10:52

Good question Andy. Personally if I had a loved one who was suffering and the illness was terminal, I would not hesitate to assist them in ending their life - if it was what they wanted.



Euthanasia means ‘good death’ - if was a 'good death' ie. painless then I would do it.

smithy


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 5301

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:13

200% Agree with Euthanasia why should you sit and watch your loved ones suffer

My best friend had Motor Neurone Disease and it was a horrible death wouldn't like to see that again and yes I would now do it if it was in my hands

Sheila

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:16

But would that person want it splashed all over the BBC afterwards???

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:16

Okay so your loved one was suffering and you helped end his / her life.



Consider this though how would you feel if a cure was found for that illness the next day??



Breakthroughs in medicine are occurring every day.



Also legalising euthanasia is open to abuse by families, who for whatever reason want a family member dead for instance they want their inheritance early!



Where there's life there's Hope.



Chris

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:25

I say well done that man, there can be nothing worse than seeing someone you love suffer.

I agree with Chris that where there,s life there is hope but it comes down to quality of life.

We have to ask ourselves would we like a similar death,and as for breakthroughs they hav,nt yet found a cure for the common cold.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:37

Well said Dr. Top Ten they will find a cure for the common cold when the weather gets better as it is nice here today in Lapta. (private joke)



Personally if I was ill I would hang on to the last gasp waiting for that cure and would never ever ask a family member to assist in my suicide because of the irreversible psychological damage it could do to them.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:39

Chris. Even if you were suffering and in pain?

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:42

No1



If I was suffering and in pain I would take all the drugs available to keep myself comfortable nobody needs to die in pain nowadays. I would even let them test new drugs on me. But I certainly would not ask my family to help end my life.

AndyR



Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 317

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:45

I think the idea that a cure may be discovered 'tomorrow' is a fallacy.



It takes years to develop treatments and drugs for specific illness's. It then takes years for those treatments to be tested and approved for use. If a cure was likely, Doctors would be aware of it and the likely timeframe before it became available.



If a loved one is in severe pain, terminaly ill, with no realistic relief on the horizon in the near future, if we'd discussed it thoroughly well in advance, if I had the personal emotional strength (and no-one can possibly know till faced with the situation), then I hope I would do as the brave and compassionate guy in the news clip did.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:48

No1



Assisted suicide by its very name could be construed as murder, so how do you think the courts would deal with this. Would they be sympathetic or would they just treat you as a criminal?



Chris

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:53

AndyR



You correctly said it takes years to develop a drug and then there are many more years of tests before it can be tried on human beings. What we don't know most of the time is what these drug companies are working on. So yes a cure could be available today never mind tomorrow for some terminal illnesses.

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 11:59

Hi Nurse awful

please dont take this the wrong way but as you are a nurse in real time and by that you have an oath to preserve life do you not, this will always be with you and i admire you for your views and principles but on this one i am in the other camp, if/when my useful life is over and i am incapacitated i most certainly do not wish to be a burden on my husband or family and would really like to think there was a little pill or something that i could take so that i could go to sleep and not wake up, this is said from the heart, honestly

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 12:04

Lazy Days



I understand your sentiments entirely and totally respect your views, but its one thing taking the pill yourself and another asking a family member to assist in your death thus leaving them open to prosecution by the courts.



I rightly or wrongly would hang on waiting for that cure, which as message 10 rightly pointed out might never come but ever the eternal optimist that's me.



Chris

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 12:07

If you have a dog suffering with a terminal illness and don't accept the vets recommendation to have it put down, you can be charged with cruelty to animals. And most people would do no other than end the dog's life peacefully and painlessly. This is euthansia for an animal and I can't imagine anybody would be criticised for doing such, far less prosecuted.

So does that make human life worth more or less than an animal's ???

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 12:24

Chris, what about passive euthanasia which involves withdrawing life support from a patient or ending a type of therapy that prolongs life so that death can occur naturally. Surely by allowing a deadly process to continue without intervention when a patient is not responding to treatment and there is no possibility the patient will benefit from additional treatment is far better.

AndyR



Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 317

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 12:49

Msg 12, Nurseawful .....



From your name I would imagine that you would know better than I, but I still struggle with the concept of a 'miracle cure' for anything literaly appearing overnight.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 13:00

No 1



Get of the internet and stop looking up questions to throw at me!!!!



Seriously though when someone's life support is switched of there are rigorous tests carried out to ascertain whether brain death has occurred or irreversible brain damage, or whether the heart / lungs can work independently of the machine. Then and only then in my opinion should the machines be switched and hopefully any organs worth saving be used to prolong and improve life in someone else.



There are no easy answers to any of these questions and my beliefs are not those of all the medical profession.



Message 17 I would never presume to know more than anyone else, as i said earlier where there is life there is hope and I am the eternal optimist rightly or wrongly.



Chris

p.s. I also believe everyone has the right to die with dignity.

Sandcastle


Joined: 16/03/2009
Posts: 215

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 13:04

Each case should be taken on their own merits.



I have seen many painfull deaths which you would not let a dog suffer, but at the same time I would not want a loved one to have to make that awful choice.



I would not want to lie there in alot of pain, with seeing people I love upset by my condition and having to look after me. I would try and last as long as I could but there would come a time when I would want to give up and I hope I would be able todo so.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 13:10

p.s. I also believe everyone has the right to die with dignity.



Surely that's what Euthanasia is Chris?

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 13:40

I don't post often ( leave it to TT ) although I read the posts, but feel I must put my two peneth in. I too am a nurse and many years ago wached my sister die a very painful and traumatic death from Malignant Melanoma (skin cancer) I sincerley regret not helping her to have a dignified death instead of the horrific way she died. I have made my wishes clear to family that if I ever become terminally ill to leave the paracetamol where I can reach them.

At the end of the day it is a personal choice, but an emotive debate will always ensue.



Top Ten's better half

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 13:49

This is going to be debated for a long time to come with no right and no wrong answers.



Bill

I now have to go out and see 2 patients who I will treat with dignity / respect. I ain't going out to euthenise them. Crickey you will have me clapped in irons up in Lefkosa jail.



Mrs TT

Don't use paracetamol as not a nice death!!! Seriously L sorry you went through that with your sister, but I am sure you did help her in many ways.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
16/02/2010 13:54

It's an immotive subject. One for which I hope I never have to make a decision on.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 06:54

Ray Gosling has now been arrested following the documentary and may be charged with murder!!



Chris

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 12:11

Msg 18: And so he should be, although nothing will probably come of it as the police don't know who the victim was or where it was carried out. Just my opinion, if Mr Gosling had really thought anything about this person, he would not be spreading it all over the media now, I think he is either trying to justify his own guilt or get himself some self publicity.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 13:21

nurseawful

I think its a matter of choice ,we are none the same.

You might want to hold on for a miracle cure and might stand the pain but I might not.At the moment I cant ask a loved one to help me to end my suffering.Like Diane Pettys argument ,she wanted the law changed so that her husband could help her when she could no longer help herself. She was going to end her life anyway but didnt want to end the short time left with her husband months earlier ,just because she had to commit suicide when she was able rather than later with her husband assistance.

Pallitive care does not work for everyone, its not just a matter of pain. My mother died slowly and with no dignity medicine helped ease the pain but her mind when conscious had long left ,she didnt know where she was and who we were,so there was not even that comfort.

I want to go peacefully when all hope has gone , in a dignified manner and hopefully able to talk to and look at my loved ones with awareness in my last days.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 13:26

girne 29 - very well said - I couldn't agree with you more.



Jean

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 13:35

On the point raised about animal treatment, it does seem peculiar that much of what happens to humans would be

illegal if done to animals.' Unnecessary suffering' I believe is the term used.



Part the Geneva Convention on Torture, 'torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person'. It might be argued that keeping me alive when I am in pain could be construed by me as deliberately inflicting pain on my person.

While acknowledging that torture is not the same because torture is inflicted deliberately to cause pain while keeping somebody alive is not done to inflict pain,the end result to me could be the same.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 13:52

girne 29 - indeed. It's always fascinated me that if you have a pet that has become unwell, you would normally take it to a vet and seek advice. If the vet says "he/she is in pain and has a very poor quality of life", I think most of us would decide to have the animal put painlessly to sleep. However, if a human expresses the point of view (when they are still able) that he/she would prefer to die when there was no quality of life left to them, the option to die voluntarily is not available. I can remember my Dad, many years ago, being in poor health saying to my Mum and me "if I were a horse, they'd shoot me". A crude analogy, perhaps, but, in my opinion, a valid point.



Jean

kaysera


Joined: 14/07/2009
Posts: 103

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:14

Assisting someone to commit suicide themselves would be looked upon compassionately by the courts. Actually commiting the act, as this Mr Gosling appears to have done without instruction from the victim, is murder.