are we going to war with argentina??

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 14:21

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2858607/Falklands-oil-argy-bargybr-sparks-1982-re-run.html



i do hope not



kav

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 14:24

they wont try it again.

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 14:28

Could win an election though,

Grey.

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 14:31

The last prime minister to try it wore a skirt if this one does he will wear a kilt.



I hope not for our troops, our UK finances & the Argentine families who will lose so many again.



John

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 14:33

If the worst came to the worst, who do we have who would stand up to them and where would the troops come from, when most of them are in Afghanistan? We no longer have a Maggie Thatcher unfortunately.





The butlers wife

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 15:02

Could this be to do with oil ?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 15:11

msg6 of course ,

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 15:14

I hope not.



I was there for the 'original' in 1982. God forsaken place !!



Paul

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 15:28

I very much doubt it. for the sake of our lads.



Maggie is senile now and she did it to win an election.



7, 500 miles away from Britain, it is not ours really.

matula


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 647

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 15:33

Msg 5. Hear Hear, My thoughts exactly.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 15:36

We don't have the Merchant fleet that we had then to transport the troops and materiel.

We couldn't do it again if the Argies got ashore, but I doubt they'll try.

Soupseed


Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 101

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 15:54

reading this, I think they might just be encouraged to do so!

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 15:57

This time we might be waiting for them, though!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:03

I think we could be heading for problems. The Argies know we are struggling financially and would not want to enter into a conflict that would cost us fortunes.

Soupseed


Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 101

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:08

The reason that the Argies were succesful in taking the Falklands in the first place was that it was unexpected.

With only had 48 marines actually on the island to defend it with only small arms (which they did for 48 hours against a 3000 + invasion force)

Now they are much better prepaired & any invaders will suffer massive losses to a very few of ours.

This time around i think it will be more of a naval fight, if at all!

Soupseed


Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 101

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:12

sorry it should be 57 marines not 48!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:17

Soupseed. How many troops on the Islands at the moment and what equipment do they have?

Soupseed


Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 101

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:24

Cant tell you . In case you are an argi spy!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:29

What d'you think my name is - Tevez? )

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:30

Bill there are roughly 1000 troops stationed in the Falklands and they are expecting to find more oil than in the North Sea. I think they should share it with Argentina and the cost of recovering it from the sea. That way no problems, no lives lost and no huge financial burden to the British tax payer.





The butlers wife

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:32

The butlers wife - totally agree with you. There's no need to go to war over this.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:46

Stephen Msg 20



Yes to the 1,000 (according to the UK news) but the amount of oil/sea that the Argentinian's are trying to lay claim to is far, far more than the pittance in the Falkland Islands territorial waters (which is none the less a substantial reserve)



It would probably be more than enough to warrant a small fleet of tankers travelling to the UK.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 16:54

sorry but we lost loads of good men in 82 ,we have to defend it now ,if not for them at least for the loved ones they left behind utrinque paratus.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 17:40

RE msg 1: "News" quoted from the Sun. THE SUN! What is the political comment from OK! Magazine?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 18:39

A coupla cobbers of mine (Kiwis) were meteorologists on the Falklands - never mind the oil - they said the crayfish diving must be the best in the world - the coast is chocker with crays!

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
18/02/2010 19:06

Msg 20 spot on.



MSg 15.......unexpected my ar@e.....Sth Georgia was occupied by the Argies first as the lighhouse ship (spy boat) was withdrawn because it was costing to much to have it on station!!! this was to encourage the Argies to invade....and they fell for it. We used the QE2 and other cruise ships to send our lads in to a conflict that should not have happened.





The Sun rag lied about our dead Heroes Colonel H Jones and Sgt Mackay's wife's giving a world exclusive to them and had to apologise.



What they should do is send all the Sun workers to the front if it happens and maybe they might get the truth for once. a few Tory Mp's would not go amiss on the front line as well!

Soupseed


Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 101

Message Posted:
19/02/2010 02:21

unexpected in the sense that they had no time to send out & deploy extra defences.

Show me some evidence of this conspiracy to make the Argies invade. Is this another Reichstag then?

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/02/2010 08:57

No.1 D,



msg 14.



If it's true there is that much oil there, we could get all the credit we needed to fund the exploration project and defend it.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
19/02/2010 18:28

Yeah right....and waste the lot like we did with "North Sea Oil!



Give the argies half I say.



msg 27....look up the history of the conflict yourserlf.

Soupseed


Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 101

Message Posted:
19/02/2010 19:26

I did, but there is nothing about UK actually encouraging the Argentines to invade. Seems to be a secret that none of the newsgroups or wicki goups or even the conspiracy theorists forums know anything about



What i did find was alot of people complaining that the government did little to react to the build up, or even recognise that there was a threat!

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 01:14

Why does the SUN not support the Turkish Cypriots who helped the Brits against the EOKA terrorsts,

Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 02:57

rowlo wrote:



"sorry but we lost loads of good men in 82 ,we have to defend it now ,if not for them at least for the loved ones they left behind utrinque paratus."



What did parrots have to do with it?

Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 03:00

Tiggy wrote:



"The Sun rag lied about our dead Heroes Colonel H Jones and Sgt Mackay's wife's giving a world exclusive to them and had to apologise."



Many service and ex-service personnel believe Jones was shot by his own men.

Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 03:02

LondonCypriot wrote:



"Why does the SUN not support the Turkish Cypriots who helped the Brits against the EOKA terrorsts."



Because it's old news and very few Sun readers would want to read it.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 16:28

Oleander, I do not know who shot him, all I know is the SUN lied. FACT.



So let's hope the latest politics does not bring our brave lads in to conflict.



Send all the MP's that are for a war over to the Malvinas and take on the Argie MP's in a one off winner take all battle for the Island.

clayton


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 1143

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 21:03

tiggy mess33

c h jones,was killed by argentine machine gun fire.they were dug in being fired on c h jones led his men towards the argie gunfire.some say it was suicidal i say it was bravery.a friend of mine was there.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 21:29

msg32, your a gxbsxite dont mock , better men died than you will ever be ,even if you reach 100 , clown.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 21:36

Here we go again.

Discuss this topic as adults although I think some of you may have not reached this milestone in their lives yet.

clayton


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 1143

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 21:40

rowlo

going of subject mate.are you out there in the summer need to get together for a few beers .meeting andy in may.let me know if you have anything soughted.c u later mate,if you need to email me no probs,hope that kid of yours is keeping the red flag flying.

gaz

clayton


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 1143

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 21:47

alsancakjack

discussions get heated,thats part of life.they are talking about something serious not a football forum,and you get a sarcastic comment.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 21:54

hi gaz ,im here now ,been out here for 4 weeks staying for another 2 ,will be back on 2nd july till3rd oct will pm my phone no to you ,the red flags still flying , its funny when hes out here ,hes got fenerbache flags and posters all over his bedroom ,kids eh ?

clayton


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 1143

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 22:00

les

out there in sept,with my son and his wife and baby.not sure of date will ask the better half and let you know.c u soon gaz

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 22:02

clayton

Message 40



' discussions get heated,thats part of life.they are talking about something serious not a football forum,and you get a sarcastic comment.'



It does not matter what the subject is, adults are expected to behave like adults and not like children. Discussions do get heated but the posters that make their point more than adequately are the ones that do not resort to insults.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 22:04

thats cool gaz , mail me ,

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 22:24

7, 500 miles away from Britain, it is not ours really.

Tiggy, tell that to the brits that have lived there for generations.



Patientia est a donum superum.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 23:05

Mess 20 Butlers wife;



They did agree to share the black stuff, then the Argies pulled out of the deal.



They want the lot.



The people who live there consider themselves Brits.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
20/02/2010 23:50

"there is nothing about UK actually encouraging the Argentines to invade"



The Argentines made overtures to our Ambassador's Office in Buenos Aires and asked what would happen if they invaded the Falklands...



As the diplomatic service contact did not know he said he would find out, so he went way and got advice from the Foreign Office and Cabinet and was instructed to tell them nothing would happen.



When they did invade however it then suited the Government to change their stance as they were heading for a crushing defeat in the forthcoming General election have achieved the distinction of the record lowest public approval rate in history.



As it was the Falklands War saved their bacon. The rest is history.



Of course the UK Government institutions involved did not nor ever will admit this.

Soupseed


Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 101

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 00:35

I am not saying that i don't believe what you or tiggy say.

I like to listen to all the diferent points of view out there.

Its just i have never heard about this particular conspiracy idea

I find it hard to believe that the British government would encourage a war that they almost would definatly lose (according to militry experts at the time)

Losing a war would lower that aproval rating even lower!

So either they could read the future, or they where very confident in what was left of the british military, could perform a miracle. Which they did!

henrik



Joined: 01/10/2009
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 01:58

just give it back. I think its clear to whom falklands belong to. Just have a look on the map. Even if argentina gains control, why would the familes living there suffer? they can live there as you live here, as I live here.. No need for the queen to be omnipresent. step back, take out a few gears.. save costs! the economy is struggeling enough... why be so colonialistic in the 21st century?

good night, sleep well

Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 02:00

Motherlands, eh? ;)

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 02:49

Watching the news I see that it is about oil again. If we are able to get the oil out, then surely there

should be a negotiated share of that for the Argentine, as it is off their land, and they are a poorer country.

They are also fellow Christians and we should help them. How would we like it if another power took from our seas valuable ass I am not disputing that The Falkland is ours and non negotiable as many of our folks have lived there long time. War is out of the question. They don't want it and neither do we.

tucobird


Joined: 15/10/2009
Posts: 45

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 03:57

I was there in 82, got the medal, knew people who died. The locals want to be British so we should respect their wishes. Should it come to war we have to defend the Islands. But we all know its the oil that's important.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 06:40

Soupseed, I hate conspiracy theorists (moon landings, UFO's and the like) but I did not make this up. I was told this by someone high up in the business world in Argentina at the time. I can't tell you who as it's not my place and it might make their position unsafe.



I can tell you he was ear-marked for assassination and took a bullet through the shoulder as he stepped outside his house. He hurriedly arranged to leave Argentina by Ship the next week. However the day before the sailing he was tipped off by a friend in A. Government that their arrangements were known to the would-be assassins. As luck would have it a ship was leaving that night and my friend managed to get on the ship with a large bribe to the captain and with no formal ticket, thus leaving no paper trail.



The ship he was meant to be on was sunk with loss of all hands.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 06:41

Phylray



"They are also fellow Christians and we should help them."



The inference from this is, if they weren't Christians we need not bother?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 06:53

Conspiracy ...cont.



This man was the head of a major Swedish-based international company's entire South American operation and was living and working in the same circles as the Diplomats and Military Government folk out of business necessity. Nothing got done in Argentina without somebody getting kick-backs, as you can imagine most of it into corrupt military hands. He was privy to the process that preceded the Argentine invasion of the Falklands simply because he moved in these circles and when he found out about it he made it his business to confirm the truth because for business purposes it was imperative he knew which way the wind was blowing.



As it was he and his Swedish bosses decided that the company should pull out altogether, hence the assassination attempt. So it turns out UK Gov were not in the dark (albeit our military may not have been informed) but British Government could not show their hand too early of they wouldn't have a trump card to play.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
21/02/2010 07:04

Conspiracy ...cont.



Of course he can not now prove what happened as nothing was in writing but I've known this man for 30 years and he has never struck me as a liar or a braggart.



He is living out his life (he's in his eighties) in Hampshire living in splendid isolation and has surrounded himself with a virtually impenetrable wall!



To be fair I think he feels that at the time UK Gov meant what they said over the Falklands i.e. they would not be minded to intervene, but things change in politics and given the wavering fortunes of the Conservative party for which Maggie was in large part responsible, they saw a chance of redemption and took it.



I think my friend also holds the view that our diplomats in South America were taken by surprise by the course of events as they unfolded.

Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
22/02/2010 19:53

Historically, don't the Argentinians have a better claim to the Falklands? They claimed them before anyone else, then the US booted them out declaring the islands neutral internationally, and finally the Brits ignored all that and seized them.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
22/02/2010 20:00

The Falkland Islands were discovered by Europeans.



The history of the Falkland Islands goes back at least five hundred years, with active exploration and colonisation only taking place in the 18th century. Nonetheless, the islands have been a matter of controversy, as they have been claimed by the French, Spaniards, British and Argentines at various points.



The Falkland Islands were uninhabited when discovered by Europeans, but recent discoveries of arrowheads in Lafonia (on the southern half of East Falkland) as well as the remains of a wooden canoe provide strong evidence that they had been visited previously, most likely by the Yaghan people of Tierra del Fuego.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
22/02/2010 20:03

Tierra del Fuego.....is that in Britain?

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
22/02/2010 21:59

We have already been to war with Argentina over who owns the Falklands and thus the oil rights for the area. Falklands, South Georgia, Sandwich Islands being closest to Antartica were the reason we went to war ,not to save a few settlers.T That being said,we did win the mineral and oil rights at a cost of blood and money, and Argentina lost. Spoils of war, and all that.

That should be the end of it.If Argentina had won I think the UK would have bailed out gracefully,and not try for a return match.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
22/02/2010 22:33

The Argentines have never populated the Falklands. Invaded and repelled... quite right. They are only making this noise now to divert attention from problems at home and because now they see some real value in it.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
22/02/2010 22:38

"Last year Argentina submitted a claim to the United Nations for a vast expanse of ocean, based on research into the extent of the continental shelf, stretching to the Antarctic and including the island chains governed by the UK."



BBC



If they win this battle and set a precedent, who in mainland Europe is going to claim UK waters as theirs on the basis that the European continental shelf makes the North and Irish Seas part of their rightful domain?



It's a pathetic argument that proximity creates ownership... like saying Turkey should claim Corfu or I should claim any car parked too near my house!

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
22/02/2010 22:40

message 1



i really hope not.



The price of corned beef will go through the roof.!



And i love a corned beef and picalilli butty !!

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 06:39

Zerochlor you really know how to dine!

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 06:41

Latin American and Caribbean leaders have come to an agreement supporting Argentina over sovereignty of the Falkland Islands, reports say.



The leaders are to approve a document supporting Argentina in its territorial dispute with the British government.



No official statement has been made but it is thought the document was drawn up behind closed doors at a regional summit in Cancun in Mexico.



Next stop? Bermuda (officially, the Bermuda Islands or the Somers Isles) is a British overseas territory in the North Atlantic Ocean.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 09:18

Bermuda - Britains oldest colony and one of its last.

clayton


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 1143

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 14:11

rowlo

lost your email adress mate.could you let me have it so i can send you the dates we are out there.

cheers gaz

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 14:21

Bermuda was a british colony even before the slave trade.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 14:23

I was there working on the first Oil Exploration project "The FOSA Agreement" in 1998, lived in Port Stanley for 7 months, the place is a crap hole.......six wells drilled and nothing of commercial value......

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 15:21

Ah but a crap hole with oil offshore is worth more than one without... funny how this topic has suddenly become hot for Argentina again since the talk of oil....

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 15:57

There was always talk of Oil even before the conflict but there has been very little found and nothing in commercial quantity, even the current speculation is just that speculation.

All the geo and seismic signs can look good just like all the previous well locations but untill you actually get down there and start drilling and running your logs it is just wild catting pure shot in the dark exploration the same as every non productive well drilled since there 1998.

If they ever find something then they can start talking Oil, right now it is the same thing they have been spouting for years Hot Air......

Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 19:20

Msg 69



"I was there working on the first Oil Exploration project "The FOSA Agreement" in 1998, lived in Port Stanley for 7 months, the place is a crap hole.......six wells drilled and nothing of commercial value......"



But now they've got a decent team together. ;)

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 19:28

oleander tell the likes of simon weston that , they may have a decent team now but look at the loss of life we sustained and the cover ups

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
23/02/2010 19:37

Msg 72



The 1st team down there consisted of Shell, Amerada hess, Lasmo, IPC, Dragon Oil plus a couple of smaller investors, hardly lightweight within the industry. Since then many majors have tried and blanked drilling what we term Dusters or to you Dry Wells.

The current outfit is a minor player in a big game, there are however some speculative gamblers investing in the project......

TheStonedCrow


Joined: 27/06/2009
Posts: 96

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 00:46

Been there done that, never going to be Argie



TSC

Oleander


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 02:09

Msg 73,



Sorry but I was referring to drilling companies not the rights or wrongs of the Falklands conflict.