TMD land

sallyhall


Joined: 05/06/2007
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 16:02

has anyone bought on TMD land

I am going on Friday 8th and need to know pitfalls if any



sally hall

Marvo


Joined: 30/04/2007
Posts: 194

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 17:39

Hi Sally,

I'm by no means an authority on this but briefly, TDM land was land that was prior to '74 owned by a greek cypriot and abbandoned when they fled south after the '74 conflict. This land was then claimed by the TRNC government and gifted to members of the Turkish armed forces or Turkish cypriots for whatever reason to help re populate the north.

Exchange Title deeds is land that was previously owned by a greek cypriot prior to them going south and has been exchanged for land in the south that was abbandoned by a turkish cypriot when they fled north.

My understanding of this is that both owners of exchange title deeds have agreed to the exchange and your lawyer should have a copy of both north and south title deeds. I'm not sure if this is the case with TDM land, maybe someone else with a bit more in depth knowledge could help here.

There must be some TRNC government web site that can give you a more detailed explanation.



Hope it helps.

Regards Bob

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 21:01

Is it safe to buy in North Cyprus?



Everybody keeps asking me this same question. And here is the answer for those who are planning to make an investment on real estate in North Cyprus.



Yes, as long as you have the right type of title deed. There are 3 types of freehold title in North Cyprus.



1)Pre 1974 Turkish or foreign title. 100% SAFE.

2)TRNC (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus) Esdeger ( exchange ) title. This is where the Turkish Cypriot owner has been given this land by the TRNC government in exchange for an equivalent piece of land , which he or she previously owned in the South of the island. Esdeger land is increasingly hard to find, especially close to the sea.

3)TRNC TMD title. This is land where no exchange has taken place, and there may therefore be some compensation payable as part of a future political settlement of the Cyprus issue. While most developments are being built on TMD land.

Sally above info pasted. Loads of estate agents will say different but you need to research this thoroughly before commiting to buy. Things might be ok now but the problem will arise if there is ever a future political settlement. Is it worth the risk?Only you can decide that. This might give you food for thought.



http://www.guardianabroad.co.uk/property/article/66

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 21:05

Hi all,



Basically TMD LAND is still considered to be legally and morally wrong and is presumed to be very RISKY!



It is previously owned greek-cyp land that was given as a GIFT or way of thanks to turkish settlers and the turk army when they came over to help thr turk-cyps during the war/divide of the island!



Bit like asylum seekers coming to the uk and getting property and handouts for for free off tony blair-bit annoying isnt it???



Most developments are being built on Exchange (Esdenger land) which is land and deeds given by the trnc government to turk-cyps who fled from south to north but in return they had to sign over their deeds to the property in the south to the trnc government who would hold onto them pending a cyprus island settlement! In other words a tooth for a tooth scenario!





See ya D

norths4me


Joined: 19/04/2007
Posts: 269

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 22:18

Sally



Both Bradus & David are correct in their descriptions although I think if you research it you will find that most developments are in fact at least partly built on TMD land although they have classed it as TRNC freehold title so tread carefully. Pre 74 Turkish land although classed as 100% safe can also carry problems with your permission to purchase as Turkish title land is not always approved which can be a bit late info if you have paid all your money for a plot.

Thats why developments can sometimes be a bit of a safer bet.....Good Luck

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 22:53

Hi norths4me,

I also heard from the Home Buyers Pressure Group that pre 74 was associated with problems regards the permission to purchase. Anyone know why and if its true? Does it apply only to land purchase or property purchase too?

norths4me


Joined: 19/04/2007
Posts: 269

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 23:02

Hi Bradus



I would think if a property has been built and has title deeds assiciated to that property then it should be ok although better to check with a good lawyer first.

Among some of the reasons for refusal are to close to a military base

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 23:12

The too close to a military base relates to all property bought by foreigner no matter what the title deed. Just wondered why pre 74 was being sited as problamatic? Interesting to know if anyone has had problems with pre 74?

norths4me


Joined: 19/04/2007
Posts: 269

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 23:30

Bradus yes you are correct I was using it as an example as to why even a pre74 Turkish title piece of land could be refused. There is nothing stopping you buying the land or building on it. Crunch comes if the Military then objects then you dont get your P2P and have no come backs and big losses

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 23:47

Bit of a mine field! Sure it will be worth it in the end. Yet again it comes down to having a really good honest solicitor that you can trust. Have you purchased norths4me?

Izzet



Joined: 01/12/2006
Posts: 920

Message Posted:
05/06/2007 23:47

TRNC is founded in 1983. Nobody has lost his land nor paid any kind of compensation whatsoever for more than 23 years.



Immovable Property Commission in TRNC has also been accepted as an "internal law" procedure and has compensated more than 20 cases. In these cases, nobody lost land.



I believe Turkey and EU will solve the whole dispute over 10 years.



Rest assured, I believe all TRNC title deeds are 100% safe to buy.



These pages on Cyprus44 can be a good read:

http://www.cyprus44.com/property/safe.asp

http://www.cyprus44.com/property/title-deeds.asp

http://www.cyprus44.com/news/property.asp



Izzet

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/06/2007 22:15

An interesting thread



TMD land is going to be very a contentious issue in any settlement but it seems unsolvable. I recently looked at the recent TRNC census, however I can't remember the exact no of Turkish settlers on the island but it must be close to 80,000. I am presuming that most of them were given TMD land. One thing is for sure that none of these Turkish settlers are going to be able to afford to pay any compensation to the Greek Cypriots. It has to come from another source?

I know the GC's want them to go back to Turkey but many of their children are born in Cyprus and can surely call themselves Cypriots.



Is that right that Esdenger land was exchanged? I didn't think that the GC's agreed to this

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/06/2007 02:01

Welcome back ilovecyprus,

I too was never sure about exactly what Esdger land was. Although I initially thought it to be a legal exchange between the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot ( or both governments) I am now not sure as to whether the TRNC are the only negotiators in the so called "exchange" People keep harking on about the property commission but given the amount of cases dealt with so far, the GC 's hardly seem to be queing up to seek compensation. Which begs the question what will happen if the GC's reject compensation (as in Orams) and fight for return of land? Its ok stating that your safe if you have made substantial improvement to homes but is this just a TRNC interpretation and will it still hold if Turkey joins EU or there is a peace settlement for island?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/06/2007 10:01

Hi Bradus



I am sure that the GC's did not agree to an exchange. This is a TRNC policy. Of course, the TC's had to live somewhere. I wonder how accurate the calculation of the exchanges were. Was it the exact same size land that was exchanged. We are all inclined to exagerrate



I read a newspaper article in which the GC goverment are deciding what action to the against those GC's who try and claim compensation through the North. The politicians see this as a betrayal and are looking to take strong action.

The paper interviewed a women with a family who was struggling to make ends meet. She resigned herself to the fact that she would never get her fathers land back in the north, so she has decided the best way to get some money was to go to the Northern property commission.

The paper article led me to believe that a number of GC's want to claim through the property commission but the ROC goverment see this as weakening their position in ultimately controling the whole of the island.



The poorer GC's want to claim compensation now so that they can provide for the security and welfare for their families whereas the richer GC's want to hold out so that they can own two properties, one in the south and the other in the north - same old story, the rich get richer and the poor poorer

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/06/2007 10:23

Hi Bradus



Making improvements to your home - I think this is the TRNC's interpretation of the Annan plan.

Not sure what will happen if Turkey join the EU. It depends on whether Turkey concedes aspects of Cyprus to negotiate it's position. EU law may demand certain concessions.

I am not sure if Eurpope needs Turkey more or Turkey needs Eurpope more. It's a political, religious, economic and moral issue - so complicated, it's just out of our hands

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/06/2007 10:34

Hi Izzet



I looked at the first website you mentioned 'safe'. This is not very reassuring at all. It says all deeds are safe and then says Esdeger and TMD are less safe.



It is true that no properties have been claimed since 1983, however the playing ground may have changed in recent years. The GC's richer elite have found a new wealth in the South and now want more of it by reclaiming the land in the north. What do you think?



If all the GC's did claim compensation, do you think the TRNC and Turkey can afford it?

DONTY


Joined: 07/06/2007
Posts: 534

Message Posted:
11/06/2007 17:15

There has been NO 'exchange' of land between north and south on land whether it be Esdeger or TMD.



this is something some estate agents let you believe by careful wording.



did you know that you may have bought on Esdeger and later find that the person the land was given to wasnt entitled to it (ie received more land than they were actually entitled to)? ask a turkish cypriot (not involved in property sales) who was here in 74 and remembers what happened. well connected people did very well out of the war and others less so.

p.s. it is true to say that in any war situation there is potential for profit!!!!!!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/06/2007 17:52

Hi SallyHall



You might find this useful



http://www.propertycyprussales.com/north-cyprus-property-title-deeds-c89.html

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
23/06/2007 13:12

Hi Izzet,

As a purchaser in the early stages of buying in TRNC I read the many interesting & very helpful postings on lots of topics however there doesnt seem to be any info on what the GC,s are doing or have done with TC land left in the south is there the same legal problems with that land in the south, have they claimed this land and built on it or is it just left derelict ???

I am interested to know the other side of the story so to speak.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
23/06/2007 17:15

Hi Turtle



Check out some of the forums where TC's and GC's communicate between each other to get more info.



GC's will tell you that TC properties have been left and have not been used, although they will admit that some TC properties have been knocked down to make way for Highways and public infrastructure. Supposedly, part of Larnaca airport is built on TC land.

I spoke to some TC's who went South and found that GC's were living in their properties.



I saw an article where displaced GC's had moved in to TC homes and now were being asked to move in order to allow TC's to move back. In response the tenents refused. There response was something like 'we have built our communities here, we have raised our children here, this is is our home and we will not move'.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/06/2007 17:33

Hi Turtle,

There were 200,00 GC's displaced and 65,000 TC's displaced. The south appointed a guardian for TC property. However the TC's face the same problems as the GC's. Some of their land has ben built on for example Larnaca Airport. This was supposedly done under a compulsory purchase order with the mone being put in Trust. But the money is said to be no where near the value of the land. Some homes and land has also been illegally purchased resulting in several legal cases being persued through the courts. Homes were given to GC's who has fled from the south but this was said to be on a temporary basis with no money or deeds changing hands. Of course what should happen is that all should be going through the immovable property commission but people who persue this route are vilified and seen as traitors by media and government. Hence the stalemeate. Time and frustration will however open the floodgates.