Swimming pool alarms

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 15:01

Heaven forbid anything like this should happen to anyone here, but swimming pool drownings involving unattended small children are not that uncommon, although I have not heard of one here in TRNC, yet.



We have been asked to import some alarms which we hope could help prevent this from happening and the purpose of this post is to determine the level of need for these alarms.



Cost of these alarms will be about 2-3 hundred pounds. They require no installation and can be taken from pool to pool.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 15:12

How do they work ?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 15:14

They drain all the water out!

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 15:21

The child wears a small wrist or waist band. The other part of the system is a small floating unit which you leave in the pool when it is unattended. If the child enters the water, the two units communicate by sonar and the floating unit emits a very loud alarm. There can be a third part to the system which can sit in your house and it also emits a loud alarm at the same time.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 15:40

Hi Vaughan ,that's a brilliant idea , will you keep a stock or will we have to order specially ? . We are not out until May , but would definitely want to buy one .

Simbas

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 15:48

I will keep a display/demonstration unit but will only order them in batches on demand.

If anyone wants to express an interest please contact me on:

info@octopuspools.com

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 16:01

I am sure this works well but I am worried about the small kids of visitors and its so easy to overlook the danger and forget to put the gadget on their wrists or they may take it off. I was keener on the system which senses the disturbance in the water if a small kid accidentally falls into the water and activates the sirens on the system and the remote unit located inside the house.

ismet

TheStonedCrow


Joined: 27/06/2009
Posts: 96

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 22:04

The best & safest way is to keep kids under supervision.



If you are responsible YOU are the alarm.



Free and 24/7



TSC

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 22:45

swimming pool alarm reviews



http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/product-testing/reviews-tests/appliances-electronics/best-pool-alarm-gate

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
24/02/2010 22:48

http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/alarm.pdf

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
25/02/2010 11:00

Our site is open plan , so any child could wander off their own property onto someone elses with no problem . This device would give me peace of mind

Simbas

Soupseed


Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 101

Message Posted:
25/02/2010 11:12

A turkish cypriot pilot & his wife lost their young daughter (about 2 i think) here a couple of years ago, when she fell into their pool. The mother was doing house work at the time & didnt notice.

billyboy1


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
25/02/2010 11:15

I personally like what they do in Australia and America, the pool is enclosed with railing and a gate,



small children should always be supervised....

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
25/02/2010 17:15

Msg 8 & 13,



When you have toddlers you need eyes in the back of your head. None of us have them, unfortunately.



Ismet



I will get you the alarm that you want but I really like the idea of this one.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
25/02/2010 17:24

Vaughan, my wife would like to know if you get a system that the alarm goes if I accidently fall into the pub on the way home ??

MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
25/02/2010 19:11

Swimming pools are more dangerous than having a gun in the house

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/are-you-ready-for-swimming-pool-season/

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
26/02/2010 07:57

Vaughan,



Although my earlier reply was flippant, I think it's just about the only way to make a pool safe from drowning... however, breaking your neck then becomes a possibility.



What happens when the batteries run out?



Who do you sue if the system does not save your child from drowning?



It seems a total negation of parental responsibility.



I know someone suggested the regulations in some countries requires that pools should be fenced-off but even a fenced off pool should not be left unattended with young ones about.. Kids love to go where they are not meant to be. Bit of a challenge and all that...



There is never a safe time to leave children in the pool without adult supervision. Even if the kitchen overlooks the pool it's not safe to prepare food whilst keeping an ear out for a child. you get distracted when milk boils over of the steaks start to burn... sh1t happens!



On the face of it, this system might seem like a God-send and end up being a nightmare.

andrew4232



Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 1543

Message Posted:
26/02/2010 08:03

would these work in my living room as it like a pool at the moment

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
26/02/2010 08:47

It is a bit of a double edged sword damned if you do damned if you don't, Groucho has a point to be fair !

scoobydoo


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 2434

Message Posted:
26/02/2010 08:52

Do you get one arm/wrist band per alarm?



I was thinking that if you had more than one child would you need more than one alarm?

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
26/02/2010 08:55

I agree you just cant win, much like doing the Pools !!

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
26/02/2010 10:24

Groucho,



msg 17



"What happens when the batteries run out?"

You test the batteries each time the system is used by pressing a button. Low battery status sounds a warning.



"Who do you sue if the system does not save your child from drowning?"

There is no suggestion that this device will "save your child from drowning". Its intention is to warn you that your child has entered your pool without your knowledge and unsupervised.



"It seems a total negation of parental responsibility."

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion. No one suggests this is a "fit and forget" system. It is there to cover that single few moments you are distracted and the child falls in.



"There is never a safe time to leave children in the pool without adult supervision."

This is not the intended use of the system. No-one in their right mind would leave a child near or in a pool unattended. This system warns that the child has perhaps left the house and entered the pool without supervision.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
26/02/2010 10:24

Scoobydoo



msg20



The system can be used with multiple arm/wrist bands.

scoobydoo


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 2434

Message Posted:
28/02/2010 07:42

Thanks Vaughan

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
28/02/2010 07:58

Vaughan,



I hear what you are saying but I still don't see it being as reliable as taking proper care of you children. Relying on a battery based system (that the child can take off?) in place of paying proper attention is asking for trouble.



Let's face it... battery powered smoke alarms were a bad idea. Too many batteries went up in smoke with the occupants. The manufacturers are aiming a system squarely at people already inclined to leave children unattended... They have to be - otherwise there is no market.



If the parent is led to believe their child is safe, so nips over to speak to a neighbour accepts a drink loses track of time.. all the time relying on this system.... makes me shudder.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
28/02/2010 09:23

Any device that might help save a life is worth it , I think anyone who has a swimming pool has a responsibility of sorts . As i said before our site is open plan any child could wander off and fall into someone elses pool . We can't be responsible for other peoples children , but god forbid it should ever happen , i for one would be devastated if it happened on our property , knowing that there was some kind of warning device available and i didn't bother to install it .

Simbas

sids1969


Joined: 06/07/2007
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
28/02/2010 09:55

hi,



i have recently bought a pool alarm as i have a 19 month old, from ammazon 99 pound, and yes you can buy additional wrist bands for 34 pound.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/02/2010 09:59

What about a system, that when it senses water, blows up an air bag/flotation device, as well as activating an alarm?



It only takes a coupla three mouthfulls for a small child to drown....can one get to the child quickly enough when not far off the 'gravy-stroke'?!

rdsteve


Joined: 01/03/2009
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
28/02/2010 10:27

Surely this is not about leaving your child in the pool on it's own because you have an alarm system. it is about a back up system if you have to go to the house for something. The only way to make sure a child does not drown is to be there to supervise them.



Steve

david123


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 393

Message Posted:
28/02/2010 11:16

Why don't you just use the life jackets that fit all children with the locking buckles to stop them removing them, some also have floats that stop the child tipping forward or backwards to stop drowning.



All children should wear these even if you think they can swim until they are able to show they are strong swimmers.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
01/03/2010 14:14

Hi Elko,



Your message 7



The pool alarms we are importing now come with the option that you require. i.e. splash sensing.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
01/03/2010 17:37

There seems to be some confusion as to the circumstances under which this type of alarm is meant to be used.

It is not so that you can leave your child in/by the pool while you go indoors, for whatever reason.

It is not so that your child can enter/use the pool safely without supervision.



Try this scenario:



The weather is nice but no-one is using the pool. The patio doors are open and your child/grandchild is playing indoors or even in the garden. Your front door bell/phone rings and you answer it. You are distracted for 3 minutes during which time the child wanders outside and sees a favourite toy floating in the pool.....I leave the rest to your imagination.

If the child was wearing the wrist band and the alarm was floating in the pool, a tragedy could be averted.

The wrist band is no bigger than a womans wrist watch and has a lock to prevent removal.



Hope this clarifies.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 07:16

Groucho,



msg 25.



The child cannot remove the wristband as it is locked.



I'm not sure why you see battery powered devices to be unsafe. As with smoke alarms this alarm needs to be tested regularly.



I disagree that this system is aimed at negligent parents who are inclined to leave their child unattended. I have already said that is not the intention. The idea is to cover the occasion when the child leaves the house un-noticed and enters the pool without the knowledge of anyone else. There is no suggestion that parents would leave the child alone by/in the pool and go for a drink with the neighbours.



Frankly, I am surprised that you could contemplate such a situation taking place.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 07:32

Well Vaughan,



Frankly, I am surprised that you could not contemplate such a situation taking place....



We all know some parents do not pay enough attention to the safety of their children.



OK the wristband can't be removed by a child... so it will be on 24/7?



"The idea is to cover the occasion when the child leaves the house un-noticed and enters the pool without the knowledge of anyone else."



Sounds like the blame is the child's... then.



"There is no suggestion that parents would leave the child alone by/in the pool and go for a drink with the neighbours."



Of course the system's manufacturers, you and I are not suggesting this should go on, what I am saying is that this sort of thing does go on...



If you can't see that I don't know what news of tragic pool, pond and river related deaths you've missed but I have read about about plenty over the years.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 07:38

I think these devices will give those wanting to be given the green light to ignore their kids, when it interferes with their social life, a false sense of security.



I also think the manufacturers are praying on the fears of parents.



You blew your own argument out of the water with your opening sentence....



"Heaven forbid anything like this should happen to anyone here, but swimming pool drownings involving unattended small children are not that uncommon".

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 08:57

What if you don't know there is a child in your garden ?? surely some sort of alarm is better than none

Simbas

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 13:04

Vaughan,



I consider myself to be if not a 'natural' mother, a fairly good one and, when my children were born we did as much as we possibly could to make the house and garden 'child-safe' and I would say we watched them very carefully.



However, over the years they showed us time and time again that we had failed. They still managed to fall up/down steps, trip on paths, trap their fingers in the door, put horrible things in their mouths, cut each other's hair, eat the cat's food, eat their own poo, get stuck in the loo, fall off the loo, pecked by geese, butted by goats etc. etc., generally behaving as young, healthy inquisitive children do.



As each of these events occurred, it was a learning experience for us all and we tried to ensure that it wouldn't happen again.

.../cont

darrener2


Joined: 30/12/2008
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 13:07

...We all know and accept that water of any description holds great fascination for young children and, I don't doubt that if we have had a swimming pool they would have moved heaven and earth to get at it, especially if we spent all the time saying to them 'Don't go near the water.'



The difference between a child eating a worm and falling into a swimming pool is that they would always get another chance to eat another worm if they fancied one.



If I had young children around the house and pool I would have one.



To me it would be on a par with safety gates on stairs and doorways, pan guards on cookers, blanking plates in plug sockets, child-proof tops on containers, cupboard catches, lockable cupboards for household chemicals, baby intercoms, car seats etc. etc. All the things that we as parents and grandparents buy because we feel they are so necessary to keep our young ones safe (even though we never let them out of our sight )



Fiona

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 14:26

Groucho,



I'm not really sure where you are coming from here.



There is absolutely no suggestion that even for 1 minute should children be deliberately left unattended by or in a pool. With or without an alarm, only the most negligent parent would allow that. I doubt if such parents, if they existed, would in fact bother to buy an alarm.

I think you misinterpret my use of the word "unattended". If a child gets out of the house, un-noticed, and wanders into the pool alone they are, by definition, unattended.

In the first instance the parents know the child is in the pool, in the second instance they don't.



As to wearing the wristband continuously, if this is not an option our system can be switched to sense ANYONE falling into the pool, with or without a wristband. However, in this mode it can give false alarms in windy weather.



As to scaremongering, are the manufacturers of air-bags and seat-belts scaremongering?

Do we really need seat-belts?

You tell me.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 14:52

"As to scaremongering, are the manufacturers of air-bags and seat-belts scaremongering?"



No because other people's behaviour may dictate the need for them.



"Do we really need seat-belts?"



Yes because other people's behaviour may dictate the need for them.



"As to wearing the wristband continuously, if this is not an option our system can be switched to sense ANYONE falling into the pool, with or without a wristband. However, in this mode it can give false alarms in windy weather. "



So in windy weather when you switch it off to stop annoying the hell out of you... a child won't drown?



I think you know exactly where I'm coming from...

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 15:11

You are right - other peoples behaviour dictates the need for all these things. In this case it is the behaviour of the child.



In windy weather you switch back to wristband mode and your child stays protected.



I don't know ehere you are coming from but I am starting to think that your view is rather strange if you think something that may save even one childs life is not a good idea.



Don't take my word:

http://www.poseidon-tech.com/us/statistics.html

gates


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 15:37

well i say if it stops one child from drowing then it is worth it and i say prevention is better than sorrow so if i had a child i would buy one how about renting them out to holiday people that might be good idea

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 15:53

Vaughan my worry is not that a life might be saved - but that some people will place too much reliance on this system. Some people don't need much tempting to forego their responsibilities...



Of course it might work - loads of people have been saved by having a mobile phone - do they sell them as safety aids no they don't.



Let's face it, some parents just need an excuse to leave the kids and do their own thing... I just worry that this could encourage bad parenting.



How do you stop this system being substituted for proper responsible behaviour?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
02/03/2010 16:25

Fiona msg. 37 and 38,

Very good posts, I agree 100%.

Every safety gadget has potential for misuse but that should not stop responsible people using them as an extra safety measure. I intend to buy one primarily to safeguard my grand children.

ismet

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
03/03/2010 11:38

Hi Gates,



Thanks for a good idea.

We have approached a couple of Baby Equipment hire firms and if they see a need they may consider buying them to rent out.



The cost of the system is 175 pounds. This includes the floating receiver and one wristband transmitter. Extra transmitters cost 26 pounds. This isn't a lot of money but for residents with visiting grandchildren, renting them might be more cost effective.