Leaking Pool Rooms, Could be a thing of the past

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
04/03/2010 18:54

I was chatting to our pool guy, and he so rightly said that really underground pool rooms can be a disaster waiting to happen, and I must be honest that when we looked at villas in other parts of the world most Pool Rooms where above ground level. Makes sense.

Much easier to work in , cleaner, and of course you would not have the problems of flooding.

The exsisting equipment can be brought above ground level, and pipe work adjusted etc.

You could have a one of the outside alloy. type buildings, or a shed obvviously dependant on budget, or you may have an exsisting building.



Then of course your pool room could be either filled in. or even insulated and connected to your exsisting balance tank. Therefore doubling your exsisting storage capacity (approx) The last few weeks would have given you quite a lot of free water.



Also if you do not have a balance tank overflow this could be done at the same time. I beleive that overflow is required for an insurance claim.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
04/03/2010 20:37

How does water pressure prime a pump housed above the water level?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
04/03/2010 20:41

You need to have a pump to prime the pump.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
04/03/2010 22:23

I will ask my pool guy that question. He is one of the most respected pool experts in TRNC. so I am sure he will know the answer.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
05/03/2010 11:47

Typically, an Astral Victoria pool pump (common in TRNC) is self-priming and has a lift of 1m, i.e. the pump suction inlet should not be more than 1m above the pool water level. Octopus are currently building pools with above ground pump rooms and these are far safer than the conventional underground type. There are problems with this, however, on overflow pools which are most common in TRNC.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
05/03/2010 15:43

Forgot to mention that overground pump-rooms are compulsory in most advanced countries like Australia, for H&S reasons.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
05/03/2010 19:17

Yes this is exactly what we noticed in other countries, as I mentioned in my post, Above ground.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
05/03/2010 19:44

When quoting for a pool in TRNC, I expect it's cheaper for the construction company to incorporate the pump room by only having to dig one hole - above ground structures cost extra money, not to mention labour cost!

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
05/03/2010 20:28

Anyone worked out why an above ground pump room doesn't work well with overflow pools yet?

gazmufc78


Joined: 03/09/2009
Posts: 366

Message Posted:
06/03/2010 08:14

Hi Vaughan, Is it because the inlet for the balance tank is more than 1 metre deep and therefore too much to lift?

Geoff1131MK11


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
06/03/2010 08:27

The best situation for pool pump rooms is to have the pumps and filters sited just below the pool water level. Not as happens here, sited at the same level as the pool floor. There are then no issuse with priming the pumps or filters and next to no problems with flooding. If you already have your pumps fitted at pool floor level i am sure Vaughan could help out with a remedy to build a platform for the pumps and filters to sit on and then the sump created beneath could be fitted with a submersible pump to pump out any water that does get into the room.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
06/03/2010 09:18

Geoff, As an idea for existing pump rooms this sounds like a good compromise..



Vaughan, any ball-park figure for the sort of cost this could incur?



One thing about building a replacement pump room above ground, how is this affected by building permissions? e.g. your original plan did not include this and it's not in the square-footage allowance as a result... you might be asked to demolish it!

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
06/03/2010 10:00

gazmfuc78 is very close.

The lift of 1m on a self-priming pump means that the water level to be lifted may only be 1m below the pump inlet. Although the balance tank outlet might be more than 1m below the pump, if the balance tank was "full" the water level could still be within 1m. The problem is that water levels in balance tanks fall with use due to evaporation and leaks. Unless an effective non-return, or "foot" valve was fitted the pump would lose its prime when it stopped. Balance tanks usually have a non-return valve but this is often jammed partly or fully open with debris that is sucked through from the BT.

Geoffs idea is a good compromise but it is only the pump that needs to be raised off the floor, the filter can be submerged without harm. A sump pump below the pool pump would protect the pump room, but unfortunately many rain storms are accompanied by electricity outages!!

If anyone wants this pump raising mod, please e-mail me on vaughan@sunnycyprus.net for a price.

FISHNCHIPS


Joined: 08/03/2008
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
16/03/2010 12:24

mssg 12 , hi groucho, good point about the building regs, but after thinking about this a little, as vaughan says only the electric pump need to be above ground, and possibly any other electrics as well, so you would not need an actual building ,just something about the size of a large dog kennel possibly say a paving stone a metre square as a base then four walls with lots of air bricks in , and bug mesh to stop the nasties taking up residence, walls high enough to be above pump etc, say .75mtr, a lid of steel or ally with retainer tabs for padlocks, run the flow and return up to the pump, put a non return in the suction a check valve in the flow and no need to worry about priming all the time, of course you could just use a garden shed??, depends on the pool /garden layout of course, then the existing metal vent top could be replaced with a flat steel plate.

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 09:46

What would be the cost to put the pump room above ground, I know you cannot give an exact quote without first seeing ,but a rough guide as to wether it would be any good having someone round.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 09:52

Top Ten. my pool guy is first class, he was the person I started this topic for. He will gladly give you a price.



It depends on situation. and providing he can use exsisting Pump, etc etc.



Please call me on 0533 843 6539.



regards Lee

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 10:02

buy a 15 quid submersible pump from e bay and fit in the floor of your engine room automatically comes on when water level on floor rises easy peasy

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 10:08

Thanks Cyprusairsoft but I dont have problem with flood

Lee all i am asking is for a ball park figure we live in Kasrsiyaka I don,t want to waste his ti me if its way too pricey for me to consider

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 10:34

You would need to move the panel/electrics as well as the pump to be on the safe side, which would mean extending the cabling as well as the pipework. There would be a degree of drillinng concrete to route the pipework in and out of the pumproom. Excluding the new "pump-house" I would think it would probably amount to four or five hundred pounds. Difficult to say without seeing what's involved with the pipe re-routing.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 10:54

msg 17.



Two things:

1. Submersable pumps usually have a float switch which is connected to the pump by a short length of flex. This means you need about 18" of water before the pump starts to run. No good if your pump is not above 18" off the floor.

2. Heavy rainstorms are often accompanied by power outages. Submersable pumps won't run without power.



You could try drilling through the pumproom floor and forming a sump/soakaway. As the floor is made from steel reinforced concrete, this is easier said than done. Also, if the water table rises under your pool the pumproom can fill from water enetering through the sump.

Bummer.

Bblondie


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 15

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 12:09

Johnnie Lee

Ref msg 4

"He is one of the most respected pool experts in TRNC. so I am sure he will know the answer"

Would you care to tell us who your respected pool expert is, as I am thinking of having some pool work done.

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 13:02

As said above no trouble with flooding can forsee problems getting into pump room as the years go by, reason for above ground pump room being easy access for an old man

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 14:17

I do like the idea of moving the electrical parts above ground to a 'mini pump room'. For us this would need to include the Watermaid gubbins...



Vaughan, any thoughts?

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/03/2010 14:43

The Watermaid cell and control panel could be relocated above ground with a bit more pipework modification.

FISHNCHIPS


Joined: 08/03/2008
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
20/03/2010 13:37

some further thoughts on this, if the pump is moved above ground and check valves are fitted at low level then the pump can be primed simply by pouring a few buckets of water into the pump filter chamber,once filled the water will remain in the system and the pump will not have to reprime every time it starts, there will still be a limit on the hight of water lift but a metre or so would not be a problem i think?

i have tried to google some pump specs with no luck so far, would it be possible for one of the pool techs to supply some info on the pumps used please, sorry i do not know what type/make i have now.