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Britain's duty if no deal in cyprus

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elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 11:31

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Message 1 of 46 in Discussion

A very good read. don't miss the other three pages!

http://www.parliamentarybrief.com/articles/1/new/mag/83/1054/britains-duty-if-no.html



basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 11:47

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Message 2 of 46 in Discussion

very good thanks, alot of my family (inlaws) lost everything in exchange for small apartments in the north, i wonder if they were offered their land back would they go back I don't think so



greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 12:10

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Message 3 of 46 in Discussion

Thanks Elko,

The truth is out there but not enough people are able to read it,

Grey.



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 12:12

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Message 4 of 46 in Discussion

A very good article. It's nice to see the observations and quotes from some of the newspapers at the time - the truth that the world loves to forget!



MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 12:12

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Message 5 of 46 in Discussion

A very good article



McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 14:38

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Message 6 of 46 in Discussion

Excellant piece.......now what...



Mc



waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 14:57

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Message 7 of 46 in Discussion

Read that with some interest and find it a very good piece if only other nations get to read it. One question on the whole report:



"There are as many Greek and Greek Cypriot troops in the South as Turkish and Turkish Cypriot troops in the North"



Where did that information come from and is it true?



mamachina


Joined: 22/11/2008
Posts: 730

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 14:59

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Message 8 of 46 in Discussion

Great article, but who reads the Parliamentary Review - be great if it got copied into the Sun or the Mail, as a shock horror genocide story - no need to mention it was years ago!!!!!!!! And does Britain care? Im coming more to the conclusion it cares very little for people, just its good name with the US.



DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 16:31

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Message 9 of 46 in Discussion

Call it the "Naked Truth" and the Sun may take it as a shorty. No, sorry, "Truth" is wrong of course - in the Sun. How about "Cyprus, Naked and Raped"?



Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 16:44

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Message 10 of 46 in Discussion

waddo, I heard from someone who claimed to know that there were significantly MORE Greek troops in the south than Turkish troops in the north.



Given relevant proximities, I don't think it matters all that much...



breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 16:46

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Message 11 of 46 in Discussion

Waddo

I beleive that the numbers of Greek / GC troops includes all the reservists which is of course a lot, due to conscription.



Elko

Thanks for this great article which will explain the Cyprus Problem to the many people who ask, a whole lot better than I can.



mikeythespark



Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 224

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 17:50

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Message 12 of 46 in Discussion

What a very good and informative read.

Thank you



greenman


Joined: 16/02/2008
Posts: 526

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 18:47

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Message 13 of 46 in Discussion

Have sent the link to Daily Mail 'Littlejohn'.



dougskud



Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 356

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 18:58

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Message 14 of 46 in Discussion



Hello everyone good afternoon



I read and enjoyed the article by Michael Stephen, it's the sort of well balanced review of history which could be included with every holiday and or flight ticket purchase to help raise awareness.



regards

Doug



eastendjoker


Joined: 24/04/2008
Posts: 166

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 19:58

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Message 15 of 46 in Discussion

A very good article but once again it ends with the people of Britain having to stump up more money from god knows where ! why does the world think Britain should bail everyone out !. i have every confidence in North Cyprus thriving once alot of the travel restrictions are lifted.



booitsme


Joined: 04/02/2009
Posts: 667

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 20:15

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Message 16 of 46 in Discussion

Wow! How about we all send a copy to the UK papers, maybe then they'll take the hint and print this - something pro-Turkish Cypriot for once!



greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 20:42

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Message 17 of 46 in Discussion

Go for it booitsme,

Grey.



FrancesD


Joined: 01/03/2010
Posts: 38

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 21:10

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Message 18 of 46 in Discussion

Are Cyprus Today running this I wonder............



tiff60


Joined: 27/04/2009
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 21:25

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Message 19 of 46 in Discussion

Just a thought folks, HM QE 2 is married to a Greek from Corfu, I wonder if this influences anything?



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 22:53

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Message 20 of 46 in Discussion

Dear Ismet



I hope you'd join me in pointing out that this is one-sided, highly biased and not even accurate.



Stories - emphasis on stories - like this don't do the Cypriots any favours.



Division 46 years ?... 36 years may be..



Greek and Creek Cypriot forces match those of TR / 'TRNC' ?



Akritasí plan - Genocide ?



No mention of TMT atrocities and forcing TCs to leave villages



No mention of CIA / US state dept complicity in playing off Greece and Turkey pre July 74



Glossing over that far more GCs killed - by each other- than TCs in the run up to invasion / peace movement - the notorious massacres came AFTER the TR troops landed.



..and that more TCs were killed AFTER the commencement of the invasion / peace movement and more Cypriots killed in the ensuing six weeks than at any time since the Ottomans arrived on the island ..



I am no apologists for GC shenanigans but PLE-EASE don't 'fall' for this 'red top' sensationalist article.. as 'gospel'



proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 23:23

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Message 21 of 46 in Discussion

I have heard too many so called truths M, to believe every word of this however I would be interested to see if the international press at the time were also printing stories that would be biased toward the Greek Cypriots.



I always like to hear both sides of a dispute before deciding what to believe and in the cyprus problem there seem to oposing stories to every story by either side and it was so long ago and spread over such an area that I doubt if any one person can remember every detail however as previously stated I would like to see international press clippings from the same period that go against the quotes in the attached story.



Paul



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
09/03/2010 23:24

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Message 22 of 46 in Discussion

Mark,

There may be a few inaccuracies but it is nothing compared to the continual and systematic lies of Greek Cypriots. The division started in 1963, so according to my maths 2009-1963=46 years.

ismet



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
10/03/2010

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Message 23 of 46 in Discussion

Re the Troop numbers... who knows, I'm pretty sure exact numbers are a military secret on both sides. I do know that you only have to look at the calibre of the soldiers to know which ones are up to the job...



Just drive past the pot-bellied 'guard' with his hat on the back of his head a fag in his gob, slouching at the entrance to the military base by the roundabout sporting Olympic rings near the Metehan crossing point and you will know what I mean.



Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 05:48

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Message 24 of 46 in Discussion

I wonder if anybody has posted this on the Cyprus forum for those despicable protagonists to digest?



dougskud



Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 356

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 10:08

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Message 25 of 46 in Discussion



Hi MMMMMM good morning re your post no.20.



I am not politically motivated so the extreme claims from either side leave me cold.



What is undoubtedly true is publicity raises awareness, awareness creates interest, interest stimulates debate, debate stimulates action, actions will hopefully achieve a solution that is fair and reasonable to all sides.



From reading many of your posts it is clear you are well read on the period covered by Mr Steven's article.



In the interest of improving awareness why not produce a balanced critique of the article identifying the unfair and inaccurate content and including whatever information to deem to be important for a balanced debate.



regards



Doug



tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 11:45

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Message 26 of 46 in Discussion

6M's, msg 25, so at least three different people the witnessed these atrocities written about in that article were ALL lying then eh!!!

people like you would like to repress any truth on this matter I think, as it is definitely going to turn tables on GC standing in the world community when people finally wake up to the facts about what really happened here in Cyprus.



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 11:59

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Message 27 of 46 in Discussion

Dear Tattlad



re 26



You are making the assumption I dispute the fact that TCs were oppressed and that atrocities occurred.



Suggesting this was just about the majority trying to wipe out the minority - and it was 'covered up' is a disservice to Cypriots who have been played and were 'pawns' in a much bigger game.



>>people like you would like to repress any truth on this matter I think<<



I hope I have taught many GCs WHY that 'hated flag' is on the hill and the truth about places like Tochni .. but I always wonder IF it would have happened if Turkey hadn't have landed troops on the island...



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 12:09

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Message 28 of 46 in Discussion

Dear Doug



re msg 25



Thanks for your suggestion..



>>In the interest of improving awareness why not produce a balanced critique of the article identifying the unfair and inaccurate content and including whatever information to deem to be important for a balanced debate.

<<



Over the 8 or so years I have contributed to various boards on CY, I have done this many times... !





If you care to search through this board you'll find many examples..



Sadly, I'm REALLY busy right now - so I hope you'll 'indulge me' and buy a copy of just one book.. A Rough Guide to Cyprus by Marc Dubin



http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rough-Guide-Cyprus-Travel-Guides/dp/1843534568



It's also really useful as a guide.. if you love Cyprus - it's historical / political insights and references to many other books on Cyprus make it a book I kept lending and never got back !



tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 14:36

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Message 29 of 46 in Discussion

Msg 27 I think it's pretty bloody obvious what would have happened if Turkey had not intervened, and reading that article is probably more truthful than any story you'll get from the GC side, it's nothing short of a disgrace that GC's started the problem but then try to blame the TC's for it, and it has worked up to now, but it's only a matter of time before the world wakes up to what actually happened here..................



Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 15:51

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Message 30 of 46 in Discussion

Tatlad



Not sure what would have happened had Turkey not landed troops. I know that I read in places that are GC sympathetic that there were no murders of TC's between 64 and pre Turkish intervention in 74. I would like to know if this is true. Possibly having bottled the TC's up in enclaves, there was no need?



Also heard that more GC's died at there own hands in the civil war. Tragic but not overly relevant to the situation of the TC's. The coup in Cyprus failed and the military Junta collapsed days after the Turkish landings. Would this have happened if they hadn't or would Cyprus have become a Greek island like Corfu or Rhodes ?



Who knows, not me and not MM because no one can. I like to think that MM is objective, I have only really seen him comment on the de facto legal situation re Cyprus. This is not in my book enough to label him a GC sympathyser (all though of course he may be!)



Harold



breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 16:46

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Message 31 of 46 in Discussion

Harold

If you have read the link in message 1 and still do not beleive there were any atrocities before 1974 I am amazed.

Three independent reports between Dec 63 and Jan 64 cannot all be lies although the GCs would probably like you to beleive this.

As for how many GCs were killed by GCs, what has that got to do with anything remotely TRNC or Turkish.

How many Confederate soldires were killed by Union soldiers, before, after or during the mass killing of Indigenous Americans.



cypgab


Joined: 09/01/2010
Posts: 338

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 17:40

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Message 32 of 46 in Discussion

Mark



I've ordered the book. I must have 20/25 books on Cyprus but I wouldn't have thought of buying a travel book.



Thanks



Geoff



Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 18:07

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Message 33 of 46 in Discussion

Breezyboy



I said after 64 and pre invasion, i.e after the period covered by the reports. I also said that the killing of GC by Gc wasn't relevant to the TC's.



Harold



tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 18:35

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Message 34 of 46 in Discussion

GC's killing GC's has naf all to do with the TRNC, but how the hell ANY country in the world can condemn Turkey for saving the TC's from any MORE atrocities is an atrocity it's self, it's unbelievable that it's the TRNC that had the sanctions levied against them when THEY were the ones wronged in all the trouble.



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:36

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Message 35 of 46 in Discussion

Dear Tattlad



try to understand .. there are TCs that still believe that their govt is the RoC and many more that know that claiming UDI in 1983 actually made matters WORSE...



The declaration of 'independence' was a 'gift' to the GCs ..an 'own goal' for TCs



Unless there is a political settlement, China and Russia aren't going to vote to over turn the Security Council Resolutions.



In the light of the TC YES vote of '04 to Annan - which included abandoning the notion of 'TRNC' - it does seem unfair- but if Mr Erdogan had been REALLY smart he'd have implemented some Annan -like reforms and I'm sure the international community would have obliged with some quid pro quo ....





I also note you can't / won't see that Turkey / TMT were not 'lily-white'.. many TCs didn't choose to move into ghettos - they had to - due to pressure from TMT..



tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 11:53

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Message 36 of 46 in Discussion

6M's Msg 35.

try to understand .. there are TCs that still believe that their govt is the RoC and many more that know that claiming UDI in 1983 actually made matters WORSE...







I don't know who you've been talking to, (GC's diguised as TC's by the sound of it) but the reality is all the TC's I have spoken to,( and bear in mind I live in the KKTC) do not believe anything of the kind of what you've printed, that is why the TC's are looking to get annexed to Turkey, and when the election results are in you'll find that out.



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 13:34

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Message 37 of 46 in Discussion

Dear Tattlad,



re msg 36



I assure you that these ARE TCs - known to myself and Ismet, personally ...



You plainly aren't talking to enough TCs ! ;)



As for wanting annexation by TR - I think you'll find PLENTY of TCs would NOT want that - at all ..



tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
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Message Posted:
11/03/2010 13:53

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Message 38 of 46 in Discussion

mmmmmm the election result will tell you all you need to know ;)



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 13:57

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Message 39 of 46 in Discussion

Dear Tattlad



As you will learn.. the result is one thing .. what TR wants - viz a political soln. - will dictate 'policy'



Lincsman



Joined: 02/04/2008
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 14:25

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Message 40 of 46 in Discussion

mmmmmm, Whilst I see that you always try to give a balanced viewpoint IMO I think to argue that TC' s wouldn't have been targeted if Turkey hadn't intervened in 1974 is unlikely. Was it not Nikos Sampson who said later that if Turkey hadn't have intervened he would have sought to annihilate all TC's on the Island? I believe that if the coup had succeeded, after the fighting between Sampson/Makarios supporters, the TC's would have been a prime target.



tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 15:14

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Message 41 of 46 in Discussion

mmmmmm, why don't you ask some of the TC's on here how they feel what they want etc, that should give you at least a small insight..........



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 15:48

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Message 42 of 46 in Discussion

Hi Lincsman..



Truly, I can't answer.. but were there massacres of TCs in between the 'victory' for the Coupists and the Turkish landings...... ?



All that happened was that the landings ( temporarily ) re-united sworn GC enemies.



Tattlad, I *am* in contact with TCs and note what they say on a near daily basis...



Lincsman



Joined: 02/04/2008
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 16:34

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Message 43 of 46 in Discussion

mmmmmm, re message 42,

To be fair no there were'nt, but was that because the Sampson/Makarios supporters were too busy fighting each other?



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 16:50

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Message 44 of 46 in Discussion

The problem is the GC's have been taught that no GC's killed GC's they were all killed by Turks and TC's, which of course is a nonsence. However, when you see their quoted figurs it must make people believe that one minority TC is worth ten GC's.



tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 16:51

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Message 45 of 46 in Discussion

mmmmmm, didn't you notice what happened in elections last time, last year ? I think you'll find the UBP that won are very pro Turkish............



Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 20:14

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Message 46 of 46 in Discussion

Outstanding piece of article. 100 % Truth.

It is refreshing to hear the truth for a change from an outside source.

Well done.



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