[ Opinons required ] - do you encounter objections to your faith ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:08

In another place I am debating religious freedoms with a poser who claims Turkey is preventing Christain worship and the building of Churches.





The poster used an eight year old article to back up his contention:



http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/21393?eng=y



So... I'm interested to know if any of you have encountered such 'problems'



Naturally, I have told him that -especially in 'Turkish Cyprus' that this is NONSENSE - as I have found TCs to be more tolerant than many Orthodox Christian GCs..



I want to hear YOUR experiences...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:11

mmmmmm



I am free to worship the female form... if that's any help!

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:15

Anyone in particular Groucho??

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:16

Mark I have travelled the world as cabin crew and also my dad being in the enniskillens, never as an irish catholic apart england in the early days i have ever encountered any problems, everywhere i have been they were happy to direct me to mass, every where they loved the fact i was different but respected it xxxxx

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:22

Thx, Lilli



guys - you could even try to answer the thread topic... ;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:23

..and I could learn to spell CHRISTIAN...



[ oh for the ability to edit ]

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:31

Come join my forum Mark, I will authorise you to edit but I may have to throw you a warning or two every wekk about anything at all just to keep you on your toes, so to speak.



I have never experienced any form of deregation although I am not what you would call stingent in my beliefs, my wife however has a much stronger faith and I am sure if anything had been said to her in disparagement of her beliefs I would have heard of it.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:35

6m's



I've never tried to build a church anywhere in the world.



Are you planning to do so?



If not,....



this is a bit of a waste of time eh??

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:42

Dear RobnJo, it's only a waste of my time ( my 'problem' which I'm ok with ! ) and yours if you bother to reply, but just ask me a question .... you could just answer, "Yes ..or.. No" !!



May be you think I have an agenda?... YES - I do.... but it's not 'anti Turkish' or anti-'TRNC' .. I just want straight answers, so as someone ( who may well be viewing ) who believes oppression exists - having read old articles - can hear from folk ' on the coal face'



Are you always so 'suspicious' or is it the effect I have on you ? ;)

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 19:49

6m's



You might think so,... I couldn't possibly comment!



Rob

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 20:13

Dear mx6,

You know perhaps better than anyone else that Turkey's record on treatment of religious minorities is far from impeccable.

The Jews, the Greek Orthodox Christians, and the Armenian Orthodox Christians are the only recognized minorities in Turkey. They are defined as “non-Muslim” minorities – the only recognized criterion.

There is no special status for the the Roma, the Alevis, the Laz and the Circassians as well as for smaller communities of Bosnians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Protestant and Catholic Christians.

All facts of religious discrimination are well documented in UNDP Annual Progress reports, numerous OSCE and European Commission documents.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 20:25

G'day sixems,



I agree with you about the tolerance of the TCs. Since I've been associated with TRNC, and experienced the loveliness of Esentepe Village and its people, I've been quite surprised at the general laid-back attitude to religion per se, and Islam in particular. In the main, of course, they are Muslim, but compared to Saudi Arabia, where I currently live, there seems to be such a wonderfully relaxed attitude to the requirements of Islam as the Saudis would have it.



Others may disagree with me, for I haven't been in TRNC very long, but what I have seen has been very comfortable, pleasant, non-overt and certainly non-discriminatory.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 20:26

I also agree that you do seem to have trouble with editing...did you mean "poser" or "poster"?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 21:01

re msg 13



Hi Rotto



>>did you mean "poser" or "poster"<<



)))) must have been a 'Freudian slip'...



re msg 11



Thanks Clarissa



my 'poser' friend will love you.. Score one for him...



I'm well aware of historical precedent, but as TR was wanting to prove to the EU that they have changed - for the better - are you sure that this is still the official -(outside TR ) viewpoint of NGOs and groups like Amnesty? ..........for example what is happening with the issue of applications for the building of new Christian Churches... especially as TR was so quick to condemn the Swiss vote re Mosques and Minarets ..?

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 22:34

Even here in TRNC tolerance seems to be very much the norm.... at Karaglanoglu there is a shrine to St George built into the cliff, adjacent to where many locals go fishing. This has an unlocked door and I often look in to see lighted candles, undefaced icons and feel that there is a general air of acceptance. Recently a new railed stairway has been built down the cliff to facilitate access. If the local Belediesi was responsible they are to be congratulated.

dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 22:38

Hi mmmmmm,



Interesting topic.



I have been discriminated against twice due to my perceived religious affiliation.



1. Thrown out of a shared taxi in Israel because I was a Christian. This was despite the objections of my fellow passengers. I still do not know what the driver's issue was.



2. In South Cyprus I got some hassle from 'objectors' when going into the Roman Catholic church at Paphos Gate. Orthodox GCs object to RCs almost as much as they do about 'Turks'. It seems they blame RCs (Richard Coeur de Lion) for upsetting the Byzantine rule of Cyprus and they aren't in a forgiving mood yet. Native Cypriot RCs are termed 'Latins' and are an official minority along with the Maronites and Armenians.



Some recent and articles in the Cyprus Mail about anti catholic protests in Paphos are interesting.



For historical Turkish attitudes to Christians read the book Twice a Stranger (author name Banks) about the mass population exchanges during the 1920s.



DD

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
10/03/2010 23:20

Hi Mark,



Msg 12 sums it up for me as well.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 00:34

Thanks to the contributors, so far ..



DD I will check out this book



http://books.google.co.uk/books?sitesec=reviews&id=kVZ3sLBEPEcC



Gets some great reviews ...

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 00:35

In Alsancak I see the same villagers (mostly male) in their little bars chatting and playing backgammon as go to the mosque, and in what other moslem country, aside from North Cyprus and Turkey, produces quite such a palatable Brandy?



Faith here is where it belongs, in one's heart and in the place one worships. Not on your sleeve or in a crowd on a street.



Lem

dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 00:39

Hi again,



If the question is ... have I experienced prejudice in the TRNC? Absolutely NEVER.



They worship the Pound, Dollar, Euro or anything else.



Seriously, since first coming here in the nineteen nineties, TCs were so pleased to see anyone from 'the outside', they could not have been more welcoming, or accommodating.



Religion is only a (rare) topic for ex-pats.



DD

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 01:49

Re: Msg 14,

Dear mx6,

I am so sorry about your "poser".



<... are you sure that this is still the official -(outside TR ) viewpoint of NGOs and groups like Amnesty?...>



Unfortunantly , yes .



The latest EC report to Council of Europe about religious minorities' rights in TR is not “glowing" at all.

The major concerns are the protection of property rights of non-Muslim minority foundations and lack of progress on restitution/ compensations for the lands seized from Christian and other religious groups. (Apart from Armenians there is a problem of 1mln displaced Assyrian Christians and their land).

And current TR administration with its hard line Islamic stance has not done much to endear TR to EU Accession Commission.

mamachina


Joined: 22/11/2008
Posts: 730

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 09:53

m6 - Id say "no" here, (Girne area). the little RC church is active and full on a Sunday and no stones thrown!! The Anglican church also seems to flourish with no bad feeling. Ive had the odd chat about "religion" here with non christians and no one seems bothered what we are! On relection if tolerant, we all "worship" the same god in the end, be it Islam, Jewish or Christian! - cant answer for the Indian sub continent faiths though.

Clara


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 136

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 10:25

I think you will find that a lot of Turkish Cypriots get stick from Turkish people for not knowing a thing about the Muslim religion let alone going to the Mosque.

Some Brits do make a bit of an issue and call TRNC a ''Muslim'' country,most Cypriots would laugh at that idea.

Turkish Cypriots are tolerant to any religion,and I think they are also quite interested in other religions too.They are not to be mistaken for TR citizens.

Well thats my opinion anyway.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 10:30

Ok Mark,



I went for a computing job near Livingston, Scotland, and when asked about my alma mater, because it sounded Roman Catholic (St. Benedict's) their attitude immediately went from friendly to seemingly totally hostile.... I didn't get the job even though well qualified. I later found out they were a Protestant company..



It was bonkers because my school was Anglican not Roman Catholic.

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 15:33

I am a Christian married to a Muslim and we have never had any problem with each others religion. In fact if you read the Koran it is very similar to the Bible.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 15:40

I reckon it's best to declare oneself a 'Bush Baptist' - that usually gets them all confused - therefore they don't criticise!



Ya could try: 'I'm a "Born Again God Botherer"!' - that'll have 'em flummoxed!

parkview



Joined: 12/03/2009
Posts: 1123

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 17:54

I am Jewish and was engaged to a Muslim here, no problem there as we both loved a bacon butty!!!, never experienced any prejudice but saying that neither one of us was practising, if you know what I mean!!!