is there a Lime scale remover for water tanks

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 11:45

does anyone know the best approach to prevent lime scale build up in the water tank or in the tank where the element is lodged there must be something likes to the dish and washing machine gadgets

i now realize when i had to buy extra water for the villa, the water must have been riddled with lime and lead to the cost of new elements 3 in total in the summer is there any prevention or treatment to water before it gets to the hot water tank and then to the rest of the villa

I thought there must be something one can put into the 5 ton tank or the garden tank ,those irrigation pumps must have a short life thanks

crofter


Joined: 16/12/2008
Posts: 1035

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 11:57

For £139 you can buy a Combimate unit that deters the formation of limescale by depositing minute quantities of Siliphos. Stops limescale sticking around taps, kettels, sinks and sanitary ware. Simple installation and no power supply required.



We have one and it does work.



Call John at HeatSaver KK Ltd 0n 0532 340 2230.

colly


Joined: 31/07/2008
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 12:29

Glad to hear it is working for you but must point out that the combimate was designed for moving hot water such as combi boilers and heat stores. Once used on stored water the effects diminish due to leeching.



For stored water the best solution would be a water softener.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 13:41

Combimate is very similar to an Aquadial product find it on http://www.softcleanwater.co.uk

The product comes in a less fancy pack and is also a lot less expensive. Both need replacement of the Polyphosphate Dosing on a regular basis.

The Combi-care uses Polyphosphate in a dilute form and acts as a sequester preventing precipitation of calcium scale as well as offering a level of protection against corrosion and the leaching of lead.

Also look at the Combi-flow.



Colly - has made a wise point and there are two types of softener easily available; conventional resin & electronic all this has been said on other threads - if you want assistance contact me at info@softcleanwater.co.uk



Before shelling out you might want to see Zin in Lapta who has some in line magnetic units in stock which might suit your needs.

The prices on SCW are aimed to be competitive as they were set for North Cyprus

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 13:57

Basheer



Your problem sounds particularly severe... we've lived in this house for over four years and have not, to date, required a new element...



To clear it through, I put some pool acid (about 1 kilo) in my half to one-third empty cold water tank and let it work it's way through the system. This worked a treat. The evidence that it worked was the arrival of all the scale in the loo and elsewhere until it had flushed through.



I reckon this treatment twice a year is a simple cheap and safe way to remove the build-up.

fatboy



Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 14:05

Next time in the uk go to B & Q and get a product called Firnox.It comes in small boxes,easy to transport.Remove the contents & hang from the ballcock in your garden tank.Replace every three or four months.Simples.

colly


Joined: 31/07/2008
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 16:06

Did you mean Fernox fatboy? Be careful to get the right one. One is a preventer, that is the one I think you mean and one is a remover. Remover will do the job of removing the scale but you will have to be careful how you use it as it should not be used with certain materials "Limitations: It should not be used with thin gauge or badly corroded aluminium, zinc, galvanised steel, acrylic (e.g. plastic kettles and baths) chromium plated or enamelled surfaces (e.g. baths), concrete and asbestos." I do not know how or how well the preventer works.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 16:59

Fernox is a brand name for a product range made by Cookson Electronics that includes central heating cleansers and anti corrosive products. I would not like to imagine what those products would do to the human body. Watch out what you buy.

fatboy



Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 19:30

according to her who must be obeyed it is FERNOX with an E .We've been using it for about 4 years.Still here touch wood..

colly


Joined: 31/07/2008
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
11/03/2010 19:48

Flightholiday,

My thoughts exactly. As well as the centracl heating products they also do DS3 which is the limescale remover (still to be careful with that one) and then the limescale preventer. The preventer sounds fine but not sure how it works. It appears to be glass crystals so does the limescale adhere to them? I sometimes bump into the Fernox rep so will ask him if i do.

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
12/03/2010 12:00

i tip a packet of calgonit in my water tank the same stuff you use in the washing machine it seems to work.

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
12/03/2010 12:52

i use a little potasium monosulphate in my water tanks, also i use one and a half cap full of zerochlor in my cold water tanks per 2 ton of water





softens the water and also helps keep my tank clean and no furr.

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
12/03/2010 13:43

message 12 where do you buy this from thanks

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/03/2010 07:24

Basheer



Sodium Bisulphate AKA Swimmnig pool acid is used to regulate the acidity of pools to stop limescale build up and to remove existing deposits it can be used in slightly higher concentrations.



It is a very cheap chemical to buy (in comparison with other branded methods) you can get it from any pool supplies company. By applying a dose of this to your lower cold water storage tank and allowing it to work it's way through your system (hot and cold water) you will effectively treat all the parts of you house connected to the supply including your washing machine etc. on a quarterly or six monthly basis.



I use 2 - 3 kilo to a 1/3rd full 2 ton tank -i.e. let the tank run low to reduce the initial amount and to attack the limescale build up where it is most prevalent, the bottom third of the lower tank. When the mixture pumps into the top tank, hot water tank and solar panels they all get the same treatment...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/03/2010 07:30

This can be repeated several times to remove stubborn deposits. The water will of course arrive at your toilets and shower heads laden with the resulting limescale deposits and the colour will be distinctly off the norm. This is proof that the process is working. You will probably need to remove and rinse out the shower heads a few times until the treatment has finished doing its job.



Sodium Bisulphate is safe to use and cheap enough. Pool acid sounds scary but it's really no big deal.



If any body has skin conditions like Eczema then they should not bath in the water until you are confident the PH level has gone back to a more normal neutral level. Here of course PH levels are generally very high due to the high concentration of lime dissolved in the water. A PH testing kit will allow you to test this. For everyone else - it's no problem at all.

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
13/03/2010 14:04

Message 13



im not sure of any pool shop other than myself and splash pools in lapta selling potasium monosulphate.



Also it wont alter the PH of the water in small doses and it wont have any effects for people with sensative skin or Eczema.



im in catalkoy.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/03/2010 17:16

Zero,



I'm not... I'm talking about Sodium Bi-sulphate which will alter the PH level and thus remove the limescale. If potassium mono-sulphate doesn't do this it's not much cop as a dosage type treatment is it?



All I'm saying about skin condition sufferers is, neutral PH levels are normally recommended for them so flush the system with fresh water to get back to normal levels and possibly check with a testing kit before bathing in the water....

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
13/03/2010 19:00

thanks seems there is a solution, also Cemal who has a shop opp camelotte beach after the petrol station he has a plumbing shop, he suggested fitting something a sort if container with something like cd's stacked together which collects all the lime as it flows out of the tank to the boiler and villa,then all you do is open it every so often and shake it well and put back for about £200 anyone heard of this

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
13/03/2010 23:18

Are you saying you had to replace your element in your hot water tank 3 times in the summer? Why do you need your immersion?



We add nothing to ours and all we have a problem with is lime in the tap filters, we use the immersion a lot in the winter for 5 years with no problem

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 11:47

Message 17



Sodium Bi-sulphate is PH-. so of course it alters the PH.



all im saying is i use potasium monosulphate in mine and a cap full and a half of zerochlor and its perfect.



no need to worry about the PH in my water tanks

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 11:51

I think Basheer needs to remove a big build up first... I take your point that this might keep it in good fettle once you've done that.



How often do you treat your water with this small dosage?

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 11:55

message 19 actually it was around april after the villa was closed for 6 months, one lasted a week!!!

and the other was in sept before

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 12:05

Message 21



normally when i think ive used a few tons of water,maybe every 6 or 8 ton, dose the 2x2ton tanks and let it take it up to the roof.

Yes of course get the tanks cleaned out first.

scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
Posts: 1070

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 18:27

Despite the hard water here, I'm still using the same immersion heater element as was fitted 9 yrs ago when the house was built. I think the failing elements must be due to another problem entirely.

I also had very hard water in the UK. but caused by a different hardness source.

We've never added any chemical softener whatsoever to any water tanks & never had our tanks cleaned either. We do not drink the tap water at all.

I seriously sometimes think that people want problems to worry about & solve. There are plenty of those here without looking for one that do not exist. Btw the house is permanently occupied 365 days per year & has been since 2001.

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 19:07

Hi Scruff after changing the element I also installed the gas water heater and reverted to that as my main use for hot water after sept and the electric water has not been used since then,( I have the choice ) I will test it out in april when I am there, off course in the summer none are used when the solar panels heat the water, if I discover the element or the thermstate dies then it's a problem and will learn to live with it the gas water has been the best way for hot water in the cold months

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 20:06

Basheer



It's been pointed out before that the thermostats on many immersion heaters are set far too high. The recommended setting is about 62c. Any more and the water may actually boil in the top of the tank.



This would increase build up of limescale which precipitates from water far more readily when water is boiled... i.e. if the water is only heated to sensible levels the lime stays in solution and passes through the system.



There is no point in making the water so hot it's dangerous and needs to be cooled before it can be used. We all like a nice hot shower but often water is scalding hot at the mixer and this is quite dangerous, especially on systems where somebody else running a tap might suddenly reduce the flow of cold water to the mixer.... ouch!

scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
Posts: 1070

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 20:53

Sounds like you may have hit the nail on the head Groucho. I can honesty say that we have never had a spot of bother from our immersion heater.

I know the gas water heaters are good by all accounts. I have friends who use them & they are much cheaper to run. We would like to use one ourselves, but have been advised that this is not possible unless you have pressurised hot water, which we don't. The cost of converting the system to pressurised hot is too much to make it worthwhile, given that you only need to heat water for 4/5 mths a year, after which the solar panels kick in. The other disadvantage with the gas water heaters is siting them when, as in our house, the bathrooms & kitchen are so far apart from each other. Btw our kitchen & bathrooms are all on the ground floor as are all the bedrooms (upside down house), but the kitchen is on the south side, bathroom 1 on the east side & bathroom 2 on the west side, so siting a gas water heater to cope with this would be tricky.

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 22:09

groucho i think its on 70 I will see to that imediately I assume the plumber who replaced the element knows that if above 62 he has a permanent job of replacing the item 3rd one so far at approx £70 plus call out thanks for the help from all you guys meet up for a drink one day and have a drink on me cheers

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
14/03/2010 23:31

Basheer, The advice you have received is essentialy right with regard to water temperature. Many plumbers in the UK would also set the stat' far too high because they do not realise that the water is so hot that you can be badly scalded. There is also the other side of the equatiion - set it too cool and bacteria can multiply by the legion.



"he has a permanent job of replacing the item" - maybe not that he has done so intentionaly?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
15/03/2010 07:31

Tom,



I agree about heating water sufficiently to kill bugs but as we are at the mercy of solar panels for much of the year... bacterial killing temperatures might not be reached much of this time I guess.



Basheer



Certainly, if your water has been left standing for weeks and weeks I'd flush it through as a priority upon arrival.



The other thing about the setting being too high is, it costs lots of money in the form of electricity!



Scruff,



I don't think gas water heaters are cheap to run. For some reason those people with gas central heating report massive usage of gas bottles.. really a lot more than they envisaged.





Nobody wants to bath it stagnant water..

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
15/03/2010 11:14

Mess 4 Tom



Would the Combicare suit our set up?



We are supplied via mains water from the village but this is not an 'on demand' supply as the village turns on the supply only periodically so as to fill our 3 ton underground tank. Our underground tank then supplies our hot water tank on the roof plus taps/showers etc via high pressure electric pump.



1) Where should the 'CombiCare' unit ideally be fitted? A: In the supply pipe BEFORE reaching the underground storage tank? B: Between the tank and (before) electric pump? C: AFTER the pump?



2) If answer to above is B or C, will this limit flow to the taps/showers? as at present we have a really good supply pressure from the pump



3) How effective is this system? as I notice that you also sell magnetic scale inhibitors, the effectiveness of which is often subject to great debate as to whether or not they actually work!



Cheers.

cyprusman3



Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
15/03/2010 14:12

i used to use an ironiser in uk, that works for sure, dont know if u can get them here but u dont need to replace anything in it it, just needs a electrical supply it charges the water somehow so that the limescale just flows straight through the system

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
15/03/2010 15:31

Millzer Msg 31

I have been advised by Culligan in the past that it should work. I would try to install it on the way in (as per "whole house") A so it can have an effect on all of your water and the tanks valves etc. If you do instal it please also have some sort of by pass system and a non return valve of some sort before it.

A lot of people "swear" by this type of dosing system.



Murat Msg 32

I like this type of unit and use them myself see the Wrappa on http://www.softcleanwater.co.uk but it is designed for flowing water as per combi boilers etc not for still water (stored) which is a large amount of TRNC usage.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
15/03/2010 16:53

Thanks Tom, will look into it.