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Orams' Appeal rejected

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sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 11:46

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Message 1 of 43 in Discussion

Just heard in facebook msg from littlenige that Orams' appeal has been rejected and that the GC lawyer says 'this is the end of the road'.



waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 11:56

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Message 2 of 43 in Discussion

Looks like the end of the road for the two cockerels as well.



michelle3012


Joined: 07/11/2008
Posts: 578

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 12:18

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Message 3 of 43 in Discussion

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=69&twindow=Default&mad=No&sdetail=10250&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=2350&hn=famagusta-gazette&he=.com



catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 12:33

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Message 4 of 43 in Discussion

looks like the ECHR just come to late for the orams.



sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 12:40

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Message 5 of 43 in Discussion

Agreed. They still want to move against their UK property.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 14:25

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Message 6 of 43 in Discussion

I thought the TRNC Government was covering all their costs, compensation payments to GC etc, plus demolition costs. I think it is very important that the house IS demolished so the GC owner of the land cannot benefit from it in any way. I wish the Orams every good wish for the future - in spite of the outcome the case was actually a blessing in disguise for th rest of us here.

Geoff

Famagusta City



hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 15:36

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Message 7 of 43 in Discussion

While I feel very sorry for the Orams and disappointed in the Appeal Court decision I have to ask if I am on my own in thinking perhaps they were a little silly in the way they went about this issue. I am given to understand, from reliable sources, that they were advised what to do with regard to this but chose to follow their own advice. I am NOT having a pop at them, just expressing my personal opinion.



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 16:20

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Message 8 of 43 in Discussion

Think we need some input from Marie B on this one before we start making accusations against the Orams Hatti,

Paul.



hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 16:21

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Message 9 of 43 in Discussion

I am not making accusations Paul, just expressing what I think.



jakki



Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 865

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 16:34

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Message 10 of 43 in Discussion

Geoff - I had the same idea as you - but it's nothing but hearsay so far as I understand the case. TRNC government would not want to set any precedent about supporting people in court cases. Anyhow, who knows what goes on behind the scenes.



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 16:43

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Message 11 of 43 in Discussion

No probs Carol,

Paul.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 16:47

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Message 12 of 43 in Discussion

One interesting item in the report is that the court has only just put a charge on the Orams' property in the UK. I wonder if they had the sense to take out the maximum mortgage on it and put the money in trust, for example. If they have to pay the lawyers' fees themselves they would doubtlessly have to declare bankruptcy. If they can't pay Mr A's lawyer's fees then he'll have to pay them himself. That would be a dissuader for other GCs thinking of taking this route in the future rather than using the ECHR recommended IPC.



loulou



Joined: 14/05/2008
Posts: 785

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 17:14

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Message 13 of 43 in Discussion

do u think for 1 min that trnc will knock down there house not bloody likely ???



newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 17:16

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Message 14 of 43 in Discussion

Let the gcs come over and knock it down.Fat chance of that,

Paul.



Birdsong


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 18:05

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Message 15 of 43 in Discussion

Re: Msg 7

That "reliable source" wasn't Frank G by any chance? Because I'm afraid he isn't reliable at all, much of what he writes is simply gossip. The Orams didn't "go their own way" they took the only realistic route open to them at the time.

Re: Msg 12

From the very first day the summons was served 5 1/2 years ago there was nothing the Orams could have done to safeguard their property. Any action they took, in the knowledge that their property was at risk, could have been reversed by the court. If they had, for example, sold the house and put the money into trust, the court could simply order that the money be surrendered. then they could have been left with a huge mortgage AND no money. They took advice from several English lawyers on this point.

And anyway, on principle, they felt they should not be forced into selling the house they love .



Just wanted to put down the true facts and hope this answers those 2 questions.



hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 18:24

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Message 16 of 43 in Discussion

No the reliable source was not Frank G, I have been here long enough to know how to interpret his news.



cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 18:44

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Message 17 of 43 in Discussion

Was it Daddies )



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 18:50

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Message 18 of 43 in Discussion

Birdsong, the Orams won their case in 2008 so there should have been no reason they could not do whatever they wanted with their assets. That was why Mr A was ordered to pay compensation and legal costs at the time.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
01/04/2010 19:13

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Message 19 of 43 in Discussion

Asking the judiciary to find one of their own guilty of bias is like asking the police to investigate their own conduct... largely a waste of time as they close ranks and declare themselves above reproach.



The house should be declared a 'Folly of National Importance' and made a shrine for visitors from the south with all sort of articles about how the whole 1953 - 1974 period transpired on display throughout the villa ...



Oh, but that would be just like the GCs do in the south and that's not the way adults behave. ;)



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
02/04/2010 00:40

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Message 20 of 43 in Discussion

Hi guys. The Orams have sent out a Press Release to the Media and it should appear, probably in Cyprus Today and maybe The Star willmake it, but it could be too late for them. When it is in the public domain, I can post it on here (although not enoughroom!)

However, I think it is important for everyone to realise that the Orams did what they were advised. As this was something new 5 and a half years ago, there was no precedent and mistakes were made - not so much by the Orams but by others! Say no more!

Mr A wants his 'pound of flesh' and I am HORRIFIED that Britain has allowed Europe to completely b..... up the lives of two perfectly decent British citizens who honestly believed that what they did was perfectly acceptable. As to Mr A wanting that tiny bit of land to make a point - it is disgusting that he has proved yet again that 'The Law is a ass'! I am glad I am not in the Orams shoes. They are relying on others keeping their word and so far that has become a piece of elas



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
02/04/2010 00:45

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Message 21 of 43 in Discussion

ololps - elastic.



It seems more than a little unfortunate that the ruling on the IPC has come too late for the Orams, (or has it???) and will be of great help to the rest of us.

Now what I reckon is that the British Government should re-house the Orams in some nice mansion on Hove sea front, and ensure that no one buys their existing one, especially if Mr A was to profit by it. And they should be given a superb sea front residenceovwer here by way of compensation this end. And why not? They have suffered for us all, in one sense, and I think they should be rewarded for their stamina, patience, endurance and for keeping integrity As to their being 'silly' - never. They were the victims in an unknown situation. I wonder what any of us would have done and how we would have fared. Panic would probably have been the first reaction!



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
02/04/2010 00:50

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Message 22 of 43 in Discussion

Marie I really think they will god willing, this is sad news xxxxxx



dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
02/04/2010 11:34

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Message 23 of 43 in Discussion

Both of the Orams are very honest, down to earth sort of people, no way did they think that by doing what they thought as being right at the time would take them into this dreadful nightmare! in hindsight, think of course they now wish they had pleaded 'ignorant', but dont we all make huge mistakes, unfortunatly this one bigger than most.....

Those of you ready to condemn, could at this point keep it to yourselves, as of course they both know what is said on these forums...

Every one should be perhaps thanking the Orams for having the guts to fight, it was a fight for us all.......



tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
02/04/2010 11:46

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Message 24 of 43 in Discussion

I don't understand why the Orams didn't ask Mr A for the land he was given in exchange for the land he want's back in the TRNC,(if he has any) or why didn't they seek out the land that the builder/seller of the TRNC land they bought, and seek to take possession of that land...........



hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
02/04/2010 12:51

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Message 25 of 43 in Discussion

Message 23

I do not know the Orams personally as you appear to, I have not condemned them in any way, I merely expressed my opinion which I'm entitled to do so please do not try to twist what I said to start one of your pointless arguments.

Incidentally there are people who live here who do feel that perhaps there was alternative action that could have been taken, they also do not condemn, just have an opinion.



dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
02/04/2010 13:08

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Message 26 of 43 in Discussion

MSG 25, perhaps IF you had met and talked to the Orams, you may be of a different opinion!



If you always take the approach of every one is 'getting' at you if they have a different opinion than you, well so be it.... My opinion is that they are both honest, good people, just caught up in a horrible nightmare when they should have been enjoying their latter years together..



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
02/04/2010 13:15

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Message 27 of 43 in Discussion

message 10

" NC government would not want to set any precedent about supporting people in court cases. "



The Orams should have had all the support needed from NC govt ! A precedent SHOULD have been set!

Either that or they should shut up about "guaranteeing TRNC title deed."



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/04/2010 00:10

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Message 28 of 43 in Discussion

Amazing how some people now have an opinion as to what the Orams 'should have done' isn't it? Nothing like hindsight is there? Where were all these people and their advice & opinions during the last 5+ years? I think the Orams did the best they could based on what was known at the time. Who really foresaw the final outcome?



Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
03/04/2010 00:39

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Message 29 of 43 in Discussion

I really do feel for the Orams..it's soo sad....It definitely has changed my plans



Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
03/04/2010 01:55

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Message 30 of 43 in Discussion

Blackbird, when you say the Orams's outcome has changed your plans, could I ask in what way please?



I could probably hazard a reasonable guess, but would be very interested to hear your views.



With thanks.



Jean



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
03/04/2010 08:30

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Message 31 of 43 in Discussion

If the TRNC and Turkey want to save the construction industry they had better get their hands in their pockets and help the Oram's. It will be cheap at half the price.



Patientia est a donum superum



tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
03/04/2010 11:27

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Message 32 of 43 in Discussion

Hector msg 28.

It's a forum, people have opinions expressed on here, hindsight or not, that's what forums are for, and I bet if I trawled through enough of your posts I would find something of exactly what your complaining about, you need to think before making comments like that, maybe a bit of hindsight might just save someone a lot of grief if there is another Orams type case.



hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
03/04/2010 15:35

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Message 33 of 43 in Discussion

Message 28

I am entitled to an opinion, which may be different than yours !

Once the case was * in the system* that was then out of their hands but anyone who lives here/has bought here is, or should, in my opinion, be aware of what you are advised to do should someone from the south approach you at your property.

You have your thoughts on this matter and I will have mine, sarcasm is not required from you.



Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
03/04/2010 23:35

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Message 34 of 43 in Discussion

I have always intended to retire to a sunny place. I have been to TRNC many, many times, and often thought of retiring there. Not now!



Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
03/04/2010 23:42

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Message 35 of 43 in Discussion

Sorry Jean I didn't explain properly that the reply was for you...



I have always intended to retire to a sunny place. I have been to TRNC many, many times, and often thought of retiring there. Not now.



I hope this clears things up for you



Peter



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
04/04/2010 00:08

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Message 36 of 43 in Discussion

Oh dear, it seems I've touched a raw nerve. I'm also entitled to my opinion and I expressed it. If you wish to trawl through my old posts, please feel free.



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
04/04/2010 00:17

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Message 37 of 43 in Discussion

i just hope that this government will pay up, they need to to enforce confidence but where the money wii come from is i guess turkey x



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
04/04/2010 00:20

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Message 38 of 43 in Discussion

What happens though if more & more claims like the Orams are brought? Will the government keep paying for those cases? I don't think that claims have to be taken to the IPC, they can still go after EU citizens with property in the EU like the Orams.



wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
04/04/2010 10:32

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Message 39 of 43 in Discussion

Hector IPC or wait for a setlement is the only choice left

If the IPC decision is not satisfactory it then goes to the high court TRNC then to the ECHR

As the verdicts given and the levels of compensation agreed by the IPC so far are viewed as satisfactory by the ECHR

There isn't going to be anyone in the ECHR as if the offer is viewed as fair by the ECHR all the costs of appeal will fall on the claimant circa 1m for a few grand not a bet

The land prices are based on 1974 plus loss of use a formulae already agreed

Also the Orames have already lodged a claim that their trial in the banana republic of cyprus was a" kangaroo court"

http://www.nmplegal.com/pdf/orams5.pdf second page

A more relevant question could they claim from the IPC for their losses

As to the "charging of a property "it means that mr a has first call at its sale on the proceedes if he is the only charge

cont



wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
04/04/2010 10:34

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Message 40 of 43 in Discussion

cont

If there had been a pre court dating mortgage /charge mr a would have what was left

To Mr& Mrs Orames

Good luck stay strong you have been a credit to yourselves and the community in the way you have handled this trial I don't think many would have been as good



cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
04/04/2010 10:39

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Message 41 of 43 in Discussion

Very well put wanderer and i couldn't agree more.



Cooper



deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/04/2010 11:13

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Message 42 of 43 in Discussion

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/04/03/in-cyprus-today-342010/



deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/04/2010 11:14

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Message 43 of 43 in Discussion

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/04/03/in-cyprus-today-342010/



The TRNC is paying....I wonder if it had been the other way round that the bubbles would have been so magnanimous.



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