Why we should respect the Turkish 'Settlers' in TRNC

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 45


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 08:54

After reading through many of the posts on here, and those that end in a slanging match, it always come to light how badly we talk of the Turkish 'settlers'.

If it wasnt for the 1000s of workers who came to North Cyprus from main land Turkey, TRNC wouldnt be half of what it is today.



Similar to how hundreds of thousands of young male Turks were called into Germany after the second world war to help build Germany into what it has become today. When Germany lost the war and the labour force was in dire need of cheap labour to help rebuild the country.



After 40 years of building this country how can we now say "thanks but we dont need you now" and send them all back? after they have laid roots here with familes and children?



My point is, any talk on reunification has to take their basic human rights into account too, as they are now as much a part of cyprus as 'Turkish Cypriots' and 'Greek Cypriots.'



p.s. another point to consider...do you think the property would be as cheap if it was 'Cypriots' who are building away in the summer heat...i dont think so.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 1559


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 09:22

hi reproman , welcome to the forum , i have to say that the posts don't always end in slanging matches , thankfully !but when they do its usually , more to do with the passion of the post , and the way some people respond , sometimes with verbal aggression , its human nature when you feel affronted by something you are uncomfortable with , you respond , but in an adult fashion , and without being personal ,i hope you enjoy using the forum

regards , simbas

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 1383


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 09:23

Reproman,



Excellent posting. Well done. I will second that!



wyn

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 126


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 09:30

Reproman raises a valid point.



Some of the nicest and most honest people we have met here are Turkish and Kurdish people from the mainland.



They are the backbone of the workforce in many respects, doing the physically hardest jobs with the longest hours and lowest pay.



While there is a valid issue with the relative population numbers of Cypriots vs mainlanders its also unrealistic to think the economy could survive effectively without the labour they supply.



The only alternative would be to import large numers of labourers from third party countries from Asia and the Middle East etc which would create its own problems with language and cultural issues etc.



Aussie

ilovecyprus



Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 997


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 09:37

Absolutely agree. My neighbours are Turkish Settlers. They are fantastic. The mother helped me to clean my flat when I moved in. She worked solidly for five hours and then made me a meal.

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 221


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 10:13

of course they need respect for many reasons - but when you read post saying that too many setlers are in north cyprus it is because they are more turkish from mainlands than turkish cypriots in their own country - suppose you have more turkish in france or germany or any country where people immigrate - turkish cypriots may feel not in their country anymore - they do not bother us at all as long as people adapt themselves to way of life and respect the native cypriots who are more european in there way of thinking and education - you have good and bad people in both side - but you have to admit than a country with more setlers than native cypriots is very unusual !!! of course, now they have the right to stay into the country and it wont be unfair to do against them like the gc would like it to be !!!

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 360


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 10:23

Reproman,



A fantastic read and never truer words typed, hard working and loyal people.



Have a nice day.



T.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 278


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 11:16

Of those I've met and know, the Turkish settlers (especially the 2nd and 3rd generation) are as Turkish Cypriot as the indigenous Turkish Cypriots. Of course they must not be sent back to Turkey if they don't wish to return; North Cyprus is their country.

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 12:27

Reproman,



You make good points about the settlers. Nobody can blame someone for seeking a better life for himself and his family. I do wonder, though, how many people would be as consistant in their support for the immigrant underdog if he was seeking asylum in the UK. If some of the posts on these BBs are anything to go by, I'd say selective and hypocritical racism is very apparent.



However, I think your message only addresses one side of the issue. The needs and desires of the ordinary Turkish Cypriots appear to be sidelined in any expat love-in with the settlers. Native TCs know very well the policy Turkey adopted to dump Anatolians on Greek Cypriot property. As a result, Turkish Cypriot language and culture has been eroded and the demographics of their own country changed illegally and without any concern for their rights. Ask an TC for their views - not the ones with either an agenda or several thousand miles separating them from the reality on the ground.

susanne


Joined: 27/06/2008
Posts: 125


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 13:11

well said pikey!!!!



some people should take there blinkers off!!!!!!!!!!

imagine an invasion in the UK where people were in the same situation as the TCS & GCS.

i dont think for one minute any of these expats would stand by after 34yrs & watch another country settle into there home as the Turkish settlers have here!

can you imagine them looking at there 3bedroom semi over a green line & watching a settler of any country make themselves comfortable while they have to live in a refugee house!



i love cyprus

how hiporcritical can you get, your neighbours are settlers & you treat them like the local skivy! i thought slavevery went out years ago!! but then the North of Cyprus is still 3rd world thanks to the mainland Turks!!!!!!!

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 278


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 13:23

What's your agenda then Pike? Wind-up merchant and/or Greek Cypriot sympathiser/propagandist?



The views of Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus and those outside of Cyprus are the same-they don't want to give up North Cyprus to the Greek Cypriots-so it ain't going to happen!



As you don't understand Turkish Cypriot culture, you cannot possibly understand that family ties are very strong between those in the TRNC(including their children/siblings etc.) and those who live outside the TRNC.



So that people don't start to believe you (Pike): The Turkish Cypriots HAVE NOT lost their language nor their culture, not in the TRNC nor elsewhere. Which Greek Cypriot told you that they had?



Pike you know nothing about Turkish Cypriots except how to puke out your propaganda against them and their country, the TRNC. Stop pretending to be sympathetic towards the Turkish Cypriots, everything you say is so clearly anti-Turkish Cypriot.

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 45


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 13:29

My post was not intended to be in political support for any side of the Cyprus issue.

But merely making a stand for the Turkish settlers who are without voice on these forums.



The line:

" My point is, any talk on reunification has to take their basic human rights into account too, as they are now as much a part of cyprus as 'Turkish Cypriots' and 'Greek Cypriots.'



Clearly sums up my neutral standing, any talks need to consider the human rights of ALL SIDES, Greek cypriots, Turkish cypriots and of course the Turkish settlers.



The fact is they are now a part of Cyprus and have been a part of Cyprus for 40 years. Regardless of, as you put it..."the policy Turkey adopted to dump Anatolians on Greek Cypriot property"







The 'People' of cyprus are ALL pawns in this politcal mess.



I am not here to defend the actions of any side, and each time i make a post i cannot go into the WHOLE history of Cyprus, starting from the year DOT ( or as some like to believe cyprus history started only in 1974!)



Im was just making a point that i feel has yet been raised.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 278


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 13:30

Re Turkish settlers/Post 5

In exchange for the homes and land left by Turkish Cypriots on the Greek side. Oh dear, what an absolute hypocrite you are Susanne.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 278


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 13:33

Prev. post was with reference to message 10 not message 5.

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 45


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 13:57

"i love cyprus



how hiporcritical can you get, your neighbours are settlers & you treat them like the local skivy! i thought slavevery went out years ago!! but then the North of Cyprus is still 3rd world thanks to the mainland Turks!!!!!!! "



Are you, Sussane, suggesting that immigrant workers in the UK that are doing all the crap jobs that Brits wont do for the low wages are 'Skives'?..or worse Slaves?

Toliet cleaners, builders, waiters, night workers, hotel cleaners?

Do you see them as SLAVES too?

or a fundemental part of the countries economy and therefore should be TREATED WITH RESPECT AND EQUALITY



making a statement that North cyprus is pro slavery is not only disgustingly false, but it also brings to light your very own "blinkered" view of the cyprus issues.



Its clear that you have NO RESPECT for these settlers or for the Turkish Cypriots who you accuse of using them as SLAVES.



I would stronly advise you to THINK before you post susanne...



At least Pike has the decency to make a vaild point, and puts the blame firmly on the politicans.

susanne


Joined: 27/06/2008
Posts: 125


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 13:58

i`m not talking about the TCS land on the south, i`m talking about the TURKISH SETTLERS in the north! who are VERY different to the TCS or do you class them them the same (dy1259)

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 45


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 14:00

p.s. i would strongly advise myself of using spell check! (but she wound me up with the slavery remark!!!)

susanne


Joined: 27/06/2008
Posts: 125


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 14:10

reproman



you seem to forget the North of Cyprus is not a recognised state & the settlers shouldnt be there, which is what i am referring to & not the UK & it`s immigrants!



Where did i say the TCS were using the settlers you should reread message 10!

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 278


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 14:15

Susanne, I class the Turkish settlers as human beings, and yes they have in actual fact integrated extremely well into Turkish Cypriot life and culture. They live in the TRNC and they belong in the TRNC just as much as the Greek settlers presumably belong in Greek Cyprus (unless you want them kicked out of South Cyprus, well that's for you and your government to deal with).



Also referring to North Cyprus as 3rd world (and blaming the Turkish settlers!!!) highlights your ignorance of the TRNC/Turkish Cypriots/Turkish immigrants.

susanne


Joined: 27/06/2008
Posts: 125


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 14:37

dy1259



I am not blaming the turkish settlers, its not there fault that there motherland TURKEY put them on the north of Cyprus, of course i feel for them as i do anyone with a difficult life situation. point is Turkey should never have put them there!!

As for Greek Settlers on the south?????!!!!!!!!!!! didnt know there where any!!

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 45


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 15:23

Before i go and eat my sunday dinner...



here we are, 20 posts later and a 'slanging match' in well underway, and who are the ones being thrown left and right?...u guessed it...turkish settlers, like a child in a bitter divorce case.

And when did it all go worng?....when the likes of susanne joined in.

Ignoring her comments like "slavery and skivy" for one second, I believe we ALL agree, that the turkish settlers, regardless of why or how they came about to be in cyprus, are there NOW AND HAVE BEEN for a substaintal period of time. Therefore not only should we all treat them as equals, we should also be respecting their HUMAN RIGHTS when also trying to respect those of others...GREEK AND TURKISH CYPRIOTS alike.



which was my main point to start with.



In this post i am not interested in Why they were put there, or how North cyprus is not recognised, or who is to blame for this, clearly political mess.



the point is they are HUMAN beings as much as TC's and GC's and cannont be ignored as simple politcal pawns and be simply sent back without so much of a thought to there rights. Granting GC's there human rights and returning land by ignoring the rights of turkish settlers surly doesnt make sense.



Solving one problem by creating another? 1000's of newly displaced turkish setllers?...returning to where??...after 40 yrs of settlement in cyprus they now regard as HOME



The fact is, regardless of how or why they are here, they are here to stay, and we should stop refering to them as the 3rd class of Cyprus.



After years of talks breaking down, and time passing by, what would you expect people to do? Remain in a time freeze?

both sides mourn the loss of land and worse still...loss of life.

The north, as the south has, needed to move on from this. And with embargos and economic restrictions in place had no choice but to rely on help from Turkey with the workforce and of course financial aid.

If the issue was as clear cut as some like to believe, this wouldnt of lasted 40 or so years....but obvioulsy there is more to the Cyprus issue than all sides care to admit...some more than others.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 278


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 15:25

In the late 19th and during the 20th centuries there were significant numbers of Greek settlers to Cyprus. I don't mind if they stay in South Cyprus.



The Turkish Cypriot government has accepted the Turkish 'settlers' as citizens of North Cyprus/TRNC as have the Turkish Cypriots. Why shouldn't they? It was their Turkish soldiers who saved the Turkish Cypriots from the murderous Greeks/Greek Cypriots and Enosis. How conveniently Greek Cypriots forget their hand in all the problems in Cyprus and the fact they formed an illegal government in 1963, after ousting the Turkish Cypriots and making it impossible for them to govern as agreed in the 1960 Constitution (the legal ROC government as was then).

susanne


Joined: 27/06/2008
Posts: 125


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 15:33

i dont why i get involved! think i`ll leave the politics of Cyprus up to you all seeing as though you know more than me!!! enjoy your sunday roast! as i will, pork how lovely & apple sauce, have an efes for me.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 360


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 16:03

Enjoy your dinner susanne,



Cyprus is one big hot potato as we all know.



May we all have a lovely sunday where ever we are



T.

phylray


Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 294


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 17:14

Susanne

Don't know where YOU were educated but you use 'there' i.e. place

when you should use 'their' Most of my 2nd language students would not

make the same mistake! Sorry but couldn't resist it (English teacher)

susanne


Joined: 27/06/2008
Posts: 125


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 17:44

then i feel sorry for your dyslexic pupils!!!!! (phylray)

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 1559


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 18:09

susanne , why are you so hostile , there's really no need for it , surely you can put your point across without sounding so angry

regards , simbas

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 286


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 18:55

HI EVERYONE

let me put you all straight, i live in london and have done so since 1960 my

parents moved us here becouse of the english/greek skirmishes,

in them days in london english people were english and foreign were foreign.

today there is hardly any english or foreign we are all mixed hardly surprising

this is what has happened in the trnc only much quicker ,becouse there are

mainland turkish and t/c and they are fast becoming one people.

in another hundred years or so there only be one type of turkish and that will be cypriot this is something that most people haven,t realised but its there

and its never going away so people who want mainlanders out i am afraid

its too late and who is to blame i will let everyone work that one out.



long live the trnc and all who live there peace

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 33


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 19:22

Susanne you are an ill educated bigoted type of person please read the history of Cyprus and the program of ENOSIS ! As for Greek settlers! What do you know ?

enjoy your Sunday Lunch.

Ron

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 556


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 20:16

Hooray again!!!!!



On all the BB's as soon as anyone starts to talk about "the other side of the argument" they are called all sorts of names, told to calm down, chill out or whatever.



On this thread it is Susanne who is taking the flack.



Also interesting to note one comment regarding Pt. Pikes lack of knowledge!!!!!!!



Oh dear, young Pike has lived in Northern Cyprus on and off for several years and has posted on BB's for a lot of that time. Oh yes, I did say NORTHERN CYPRUS!!! He does not need me to defend him but I get so fed up with the attitudes on here and the other boards where only one view is accepted. Who is the real "bigot"?

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 278


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 20:53

cih (message 30),

Amazing, you have managed to contradict yourself within your last two sentences. LOL.

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 20:59

dy1259,



"What's your agenda then Pike? Wind-up merchant and/or Greek Cypriot sympathiser/propagandist?"



Is this a mature response to my post? Or is it simply intolerence of alternative views?



"As you don't understand Turkish Cypriot culture..."



Really?



"Pike you know nothing about Turkish Cypriots except how to puke out your propaganda against them..."



Apart from pointing out that you're starting to sound abusive, can't you provide your own reasoned arguments to back these allegations up? You don't know me, my family links to the Turkish Cypriots, my contacts with their politicians and business leaders and the work I have done with them over many years.



In short, you are revealing ignorance. The fact that the thread was dedicated to the fate of the Turkish settlers - and you have not devoted one word to them - would indicate someone perhaps not best suited to reasoned debate. Maybe you consider these people "karasakal", eh?

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 21:08

phylray QUOTE:



"Susanne

Don't know where YOU were educated but you use 'there' i.e. place

when you should use 'their' Most of my 2nd language students would not

make the same mistake! Sorry but couldn't resist it (English teacher)"



Well, if you really are a qualified English teacher as you claim to be, you probably wouldn't resort to picking someone up on their literacy levels on an internet forum. Especially when you look at your own use of punctuation and interpretation. I counted five mistakes in your post above - and Msg 3 on the direct flights thread is a bit iffy too.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 1383


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 21:21

Oh dear,



Why does it always have to decend to these levels?



wyn

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 278


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 21:29

Pike, as I'm in a generous mood, I shall guide you to message 8.



I'll repeat, your views are not 'alternative', they are the views of Greek Cypriots. If you go on the Cyprus forum (Greek Cypriot dominated), you shall see your views are two a penny, hardly alternative.



I don't believe for a minute you have any Turkish Cypriot friends and if by some small chance you do (and I'm wrong), they would feel betrayed and hurt to read the stuff you say about them ie TRNC/Turkish Cypriots.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 1383


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 21:38

Should of course be descend.



wyn

MCSTEVIET



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 695


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 21:41

Wyn,



How could you stoop so low?



MC

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 1383


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 21:46

typing error......too keyed up!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1887


Message Posted:
29/06/2008 23:39

hi guys

since i have been away it looks like a lot of feathers have been rustled fro certain memebrs

now firstly how can you tell the x amount of turkish settlers to go back to the mainland when the generation of familes have intergrated in to turkish cypriots, its like saying to the many brits who over the years have gained their dual citizenship to pack up and get lost back to the u.k or even in the u.k telling all the migrants from the ex empire from the 50's up to present day to go and f off back to their own country!!!!

a lot of these turkish mainlanders or karasakal (blackbeard) were labours, tradesman etc etc not to boost the population by sneaky means but to help build north cyprus and quite to the contary wot some people are saying they did not force turkish cypriots to think and act like mainlanders if you really want to know you have to look back further in history to the otoman empire in where turkish mainland lifestyle and culture and language was implemented as with other turkic countries

another fact that people have not even mentioned that the south before joining the e.u automatically used to give citizenship to any greek mainlander and his family who served the army in the south, which is not the case with turkish mainlanders serving their service in the north also anyone who comes to the north from the mainland are only allowed to stay 3months and in the south they can stay as long as they want so no one can actually say turkey are trying to over poplutate the north past and present with their people

so how can the south government say if any further talks progress they will only alow certain amount settlers stay in cyprus to me this is a blatant human right discrimantion how will you pick on who stays or who goes!!!!

another thing that makes me laugh the southern government and most of their politicans and civil servants all stem from greece and the old government including papdaoplous was a mainland eoka memebr!!!

so please answer me this how can you say to the turkish settlers to go back cos they dont want interferance from the mainland but on the other hand their are thousands of greek mainlanders living in the south from the 60's up to present day

so i will say to people before they comment on such subjects to actually go and learn both sides of the coin in everthing north/south from politics to everyday life then you will finally be able to post accurate threads on what they have learned

warm regards

ukturk

livethedream


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 315


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 07:20

Welcome back ukturk - voice of reason, again!



ltd

ilovecyprus



Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 997


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 09:28

Great post Erkan.

Agree wholeheartedly that the GC's are wrong to want to send the Turkish settlers back. In fact I think by openly saying so, they somewhat weaken their position. I am sure many EU liberal MP's are unlikely to be comfortble with this stance.



I didn't know that Paps and some of the cabinet originated from Greece. Very intersting. That probably goes some way in explaining their intransigent stance. At least Christofias has more credibility originating from Kyrenia.

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 09:41

ilovecyprus,



Papadopoulos does not originate from Greece and was born in Nicosia, Cyprus. Maybe you are thinking of George Grivas who, although a founder of EOKA and member of the Greek army, was also a native Cypriot (born in Trikomo/Iskele).



Hope this helps. ;)

ilovecyprus



Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 997


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 09:53

Susanne



My whole point for going to the TRNC was to find myself some Turkish settler slaves. I am surprised as to how compliant and amenable they are.



Serouisly though I absolutely believe in reciprocal relationships. My neighbour unprompted by me offered to help. I declined her offer but she insisted on helping. If I had forcefully declined her offer she would have been offended and rejected so gratefully I accepted her invitation. I have since reciprocated. Susanne, this is how relationships are built. She simply wanted me to feel welcome and to establish a relationship with me. I wanted to do the same.



I was bought up in North London. Half of my school were from former British colonies. I am very used to mixing with other races. In fact a number of my significant relationships have been with people of another creed.

Whilst I am fully aware of the benfits of diversity, be that economically, spiritually, culturally etc, I do share some fears that there is always the danger that a host nations values and culture can be dismantled to embrace a more multi cultural view. It is one of those polarities which is difficult to manage not necessarily a problem to be solved.

ilovecyprus



Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 997


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 09:56

Thanks for correcting me PtPike. It does help

but-n-ben


Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 17


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 10:44

Susanne & Ptepike are going to hijack every one of the posts made on this subject or similar subjects so it is a waste of time even to respond, we all know where their sympathies lie but there are quizzlings everywhere

Let them have their deluded ideas & ideals

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:02

but-n-ben QUOTE:



"...there are quizzlings everywhere..."



Is that someone who likes a quiz? It is a bit of a quiz, considering how little some people seem to actually know about the facts in Cyprus. But hey, let's hear what you've got to contribute to the debate about settlers. So far you've offered nothing.

ilovecyprus



Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 997


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:07

msge 9

'As a result, Turkish Cypriot language and culture has been eroded and the demographics of their own country changed illegally'



PtePike



From what I can recall this is the first time I have seen you state that you recognise the TC's as having their own country. That's very interesting. What has caused you to change your mind?



I would be very interested in your views on TC culture. I too would not want it eroded. In what specific and precise ways has the TC culture and language changed over the last 50 Years? I think it would be fair to go back 50 years as we can see both the GC and Turkish mainland influences on TC culture.

ilovecyprus



Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 997


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:17

Could you also include demographics in your analysis

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 100


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:47

PtePike



You always quote in your posts " You don't know me and all the work I have done."

Why don't you ever come out and say who you are what have you done?

Instead of trying to be all secretive and making your slimy comments.



Be honest man. Have the ba..s and don't be afraid to explain who you are what you know so everyone can appreciate your opinions.



Biker

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:51

ilc,



The country that the TCs have is Cyprus. Always has been and always will be.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 100


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:54

Dy1259 , ilovecyprus, Ukturk



Well said. I agree with all your comments.

The world is an ever changing place.



Biker.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1887


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 12:12

hi mark

i worded it wrong papadoplous did not originate from greece but he was pro greek with his hellanistic views and he was one of the leading figures in the peka which was the politcal side of the eoka party which was started firstly to banish the brits from cyprus and to join together with their brothers and sisters in greece and grivas was also a greek cypriot but served in the greek army and was also part of the eoka but he was the one who started eoka b which was more right wing and wanted even more close ties with greece which stated enonis and this group was classed as a terrorist group even by britain at the time

but back to my original comments we cant say that only one side tried to bring a influx of mainlanders in these times and its wrong of the south to say this and try and keep a cap on this because they have a equal amount mainlanders living in the south and like what i said they offered greeks citizenship and no visa requriements to enter the south

regards

ukturk

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 360


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 12:41

Erkan,



It's a pity that Mr Talat does not have you beside with him when the meetings with the GC side to try and seek a possible resolution. My parents country has recently reached agreement that power sharing and human rights go hand in hand. still a few old donkeys not happy,but no killing anymore and the new generations will be able to hopefully find trust and intergrate more.



Easier said than done on the Island of Cyprus I know.



Keep up the GREAT work.



Tiggy

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 193


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 12:49

Politics

Poli - more than one

tics - blood sucking parasites

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 14:30

Biker,



If you moderate your comments from calling a fellow member "slimy" maybe you'll get a more favourable response. I'd be annoyed if someone outperformed me in debate but I do know how to control myself. Keep it civilised, eh?

ilovecyprus



Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 997


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 14:33

Hi Erkan

No problem mate. I did indeed interpret it wrongly. You didn't actually say Papa was Greek.



cheers biker



Aslan

'The aim of politics is not to make people better or to alleviate their misery: it is to increase the power of another man or group of men against the power of another man or group of men' - Hans Morgenthau, the political theorist.



plus he said



'Our enemies are never as bad as we make them out to be, and we are never as good as we think we are'

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 14:49

ilc,



Where would you like to start? How about the decline of the unique Paphiot Turkish Cypriot dialect over the decades? If you like I could introduce you to a TC gentleman who is an authority on the subject. Fancy a trip us the Karpass? Or we could look at the schooling and TV angles on Cypriot Turkish. It's a big subject area. I've posted a couple of links to give you a taster on the subject of "Cypriotness". The first goes back well before the 50 years you were looking for. It also illustrates how the fascist TC terror group TMT killed those who pushed for this common Cypriot culture. The second piece just came up when I Googled. Quite well-written, I thought.







http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_19990718/ai_n13940629



www.virtualict.com/.../Forms%20of%20Cypriotism%20in%20the%20Turkish%20Cypriot%20Community,%20etc.doc

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 14:52

ilc - second link not working. I'll get you more info in due course although there's plenty out there if you look for it.

ilovecyprus



Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 997


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 15:27

PP



I could not access your second link.



The first artcilcle is interesting but a little out of date. The only reference to culture I can find is in the statement:



"The Turkish Cypriots are vastly outnumbered by Anatolian settlers occupying abandoned Greek Cypriot properties, and 35,000 Turkish troops. This homogenising effect has eroded Cypriot culture and heritage. Emigration is a major problem."



The author has made a generalised comment but has not supplied specifics.



I infer that the author recognises a cypriot culture and does not see a difference between Turkish and Greek Cypriot cultures. I would expect their to be a macro Cypriot culture and a sub micro separate Turkish and Greek Cypriot culture.

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 16:11

ilc,



The other article was a surprise to me, as I Googled and there it was staring me in the face - the first time I'd read it since writing it for the Sunday Herald.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 182


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 21:48

think back to the ottoman empire, before british rule the turkish aren't settlers. its the kurdish workers who are settlers.

phylray


Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 294


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 22:04

PP

You make plenty mistakes yourself but I have ignored them so far.

I find your tone very insulting. I do not need to prove to you or anyone that

I am a graduate teacher & I fought hard to get my qualifications - unlike some

of you younger ones who simply progress up the ladder.

You are too young to remember most of the atrocities committed during the

11 years of oppression, the EOKA terrorism & openly declared hatred of

Griveas & Sampson. Listen to people who actually lived through these times

(I accept that we don't always type so correctly on emails)

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 1383


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 22:20

Phylray,



I wrote some weeks ago, that there would be no happiness in debating with Pvt Pyke.



The man has a very negative outlook. What we need right now are right minded people, who are able to fully acknowledge the past, have the strength of personality to forgive (but not forget) the past, and move on to a United Cyprus, in whatever form the leaders can best negotiate.



I believe water will be the catalyst.



My heartfelt wishes to Mr Talat and Mr Christophias. Good luck.



wyn

phylray


Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 294


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 22:53

Thanks Wyn

I think you are right. I'm afraid he comes across as arrogant & discourteous.

I would like to see a United Cyprus, if it is possible, with democratic representation. Even since the Ottoman conquest in 15th century the two

communities lived together more or less peacefully until the last century.

I am supposed to be retired now but keep getting calls to help out in secondary

schools (no easy job now) and tutoring university students, and in between minding grandchildren, Gaelic choir, clarsach (harp) & other

interests I don't really have time to spend on endless fruitless discussions. He must have plenty time to spare!

I look forward to visiting my friends next week in TBV, old & new.

Didn't our lad do well tonight? (Andy Murray)

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1887


Message Posted:
30/06/2008 23:26

hi

wynyardman even thou i agree with your view, a lot of people must realise we will never have a balance and agreement to the cyprus problem politiclly or the normal person on the street because the outsiders who are looking in views are important because propaganda rules in this so called game and a lot of expats tend to belive the souths propaganda because they are only the ones that get heard for example the problems started in 74 when turkey so called invaded unless people read and educate themselves not thru the one sided view but the two sides we will never have undrstanding!!!!



pike you might know a bit about cyprus and you are entitled to your view however wrong or right they are or even clouded, but for you to say the turkish cypriot language and culture has changed due to turkey i have to say is wrong because firstly us turkish cypriots (irelavant where we live now) aswell as many other turkic countries all stem from turkey and before that the ottoman empire, and we still have got our own identity the dialect is a bit diffarent to mainland turkish and culture and even certain foods and dishes are not the same

secondly you mention the tmt turkish resistance organization being a fascist terror group!!!! firstly this group which was started by denktas and rıza vuruşkan in 58 was started in response to the eoka and the eoka b terror acts on turkish cypriots if there was no problems then this group would have never started!!!!!

a lot of propaganda has been said about this group like killing their own people and innocently killing greek cypriot civillians this has never been proven and was only broadcasted by the republic of cyprus (greek cypriot) remember the british who was in cyprus had put a £10000 reward on some of the eoka members and also the whole of the eoka b not on the tmt, all they did was help protect their people from being executed and also lead them to saftey of the enclaves where they could be safe and yes they belived in taksim (partion) well would you not belive in it if your family and friends are getting killed or would you prefer the turkish cypriots to have open arms and welcome the eoka to kill them because they had their own agenda enosis (the whole of cyprus in union with greece) they also protected one of the important enclaves erenkoy in 64 when grivas and his greek cypriot guards and greek mainland army attacked trying to wipe out the turkish cypriots and they managed to hold them till turkey intervined to help, till a ceasefire was brokerd and the unficyp forces were in control, so if it was not for the tmt a lot more would have died at the hands of the eoka

ukturk

PtePike


Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 692


Message Posted:
01/07/2008 09:53