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Fish Pond needs water to be clear

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doggie


Joined: 13/07/2009
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 12:32

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Message 1 of 31 in Discussion

Please can anyone tell me if this new Zerochlor is safe to put into goldfish ponds



bridie


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 308

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 12:42

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Message 2 of 31 in Discussion

Goldfish pond?? How do you stop the fish from boiling in the heat of the summer?



doggie


Joined: 13/07/2009
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Message Posted:
17/04/2010 13:05

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Message 3 of 31 in Discussion

The pond has a waterfall running into it which gives air we also have an umbrella giving shade and we have had the fish for six years. But please could someone answer my main question as it would be nice not to have to clear the pond and fish out every six months.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 13:35

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Message 4 of 31 in Discussion

If your pond water is like pea soup from algae, you need to keep the water circulating: first through an ultra violet lamp system and secondly through a dual filtration system.



We built triple tiered koi carp ponds in our garden in Paphos - the water was crystal clear. Above the first pond was a column with a stone bowl; the water cascaded down into the top pond from this, which then overspilled via several little waterfalls into the second pond (larger pond). From the second pond, the water cascaded into the third (bottom pond; larger still) via a little stream on one side and from three other waterfall outlets.



I made my own filtration system, using five layers of (upholstery) foam rubber with holes interspersed. As I mentioned, the water was first pumped through the ultra violet light system.



Not only was the water crystal clear, even in the hottest months, so were the pond walls. How? The secret is to use the South American Plecostomos catfish!



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 13:43

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Message 5 of 31 in Discussion

Cont'd: The catfish are widely available in pet stores, but because lack oof adequate algae in a tropical aquarium environment, they either soon die of starvation, or don't grow much. In a pond in Cyprus, yo can keep them in your garden pond from the middle of May until the middle of October. They then need to be fished out and overwintered in a tropical aquarium. They are the best 'vacuum cleaners' ever - believe me.



We also kept the Cichlid species 'Blood Parrot Fish' in one pond - also hundreds of Veiltail Guppies - great mosquito larvae gobblers! You can keep the Guppies in with Koi, but not any Cichlids.



Lunch beckons - more later, if you want!



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 14:26

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Message 6 of 31 in Discussion

Cont'd:



Keeping pond water topped up and cool enough during the hottest months:



You need a pump capable of turning over (circulating) the total volume of pond's water every four hours, minimum. Using a submersible pump, you can double its use as a fountain, too.



Natural evaporation in Cyprus is very high. Therefore you need an automatic ballast tank to keep the pond topped up. You can easily make one, using, for instance, a WC cistern. The water inlet should, ideally, be connected to the mains supply, as this is cooler water than from your roof cold water tank, in which the water gets very warm. If you sink the cistern into the ground and ensure that the outlet pipe is at the top level of the pond water, the pond will maintain its water level automatically. I made my own ballast tank using a few leftover patio tiles, a short length of galvanised pipe into the pond and a normal WC cistern ball-cock - simple! We used to go away overseas and the pond always maintained



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 14:37

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Message 7 of 31 in Discussion

Hi, the advice you have received is very good. Also use oxygenation plants these help to clear the water. Another option is Lillies. Water lillies spread wide leaves (pads) which give shade and also stop algea. they are very beautiful too. The only problem is that they prefer still water. We put the fountain with the submersible pump at one end and the lillies at the other. Lillies are a natural shade - overall once you get the water balance right you will have clear water.

Watch out for blanket weed - that is thick and green weed which makes the water look green and when you put a stick through it it will life it out of the water. The remedy for this is a bundle of hay (no joke).



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 14:38

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Message 8 of 31 in Discussion

Cont'd:



its water level - this simple system never let us down in five years!



There is, however, one major problem in all of the above - especially with the filtration system; the filtre's foam sponges have to be cleaned very regularly, and that's a really filthy, stinking job - but there's no way round it (in Cyprus) if you want your pond water to be crystal clear.



The big mistake we made when build the ponds was that we should have built a bottom drain with an outlet pipe and faucet into the bottom (lowest) pond. As it was, we still had to vacuum clean the bottom pond from time to time to suck out (yuk!) the fish faeces, in order to prevent disease. I made my own pond vacuum cleaner using a pole and a boat bilge pump joined to a length of convoluted washing machine/dish washer outlet hose - again a cheap, homemade, but highly efficient alternative to a 'bought one'.



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 14:41

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Message 9 of 31 in Discussion

I would advise not putting any chemicals in the water.

The only advice I had off a vet was when a fish had parasites on his scales was to sprinkle a tiny bit of fine salt on the fish.



deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 14:48

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Message 10 of 31 in Discussion

Would love to know the answer re Zeroclor. However, moved house four times in UK with 40 Koi over 25 years and no fatalities. Try for pond balance ie the right amount of fish to available water, aeration, movement, shade, plants, filtration etc. Agree all said by Tenkoutou but do not have a UV Lamp here. Nevertheless have clear water for 6 years here and most of that achieved by shade and bacterial filter self built for 30 rather than pay 300 Euros. Recommend a filter but filtering depletes oxygen levels in water so necessary to return water through a venturi or, as in your case, from the height of a waterfall to replenish oxygen and maintain water movement. You are welcome to come and see the home made filter if you think this will help. Freddie, my green tree frog turned up this morning, after his Winter hibernation, but still without a mate. This wizened old fart will not kiss him in case I turn into a Princess. Also keep some "mosquito" fish to eat larvae.



doggie


Joined: 13/07/2009
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 15:22

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Message 11 of 31 in Discussion

Thanks everyone for your comments and we have done all this and our fish our still healthy, as we too had Koi back in UK so know all about filters etc., just wondered if anyone knew if this Zerochlor was ok for fish.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 20:01

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Message 12 of 31 in Discussion

Katymackem/Msg 7:



Yes, you're right about water lilies for shade - the only problem we found if you keep Koi is that they gobble up the lilies' shoots, not giving them a chance to grow.



Yes, blanket weed is a very real problem in Cyprus. It's not hay you should use - much more effectve is barley straw - put it in a bag in the filtre and, if fresh, it should take about theree weeks to start working. A few twigs, tied together and twisted round the blanket weed will remove the bulk of it quickly, but the barley straw is an inhibitor.



We tried giving fresh (heart) lettuce leaves to the Koi - they love it, and it does dull their appetite for the water lily shoots - but not completely, we found.



If the water really gets far too warm, we used to run a 12 volt (through a transformer) car tyre inflator to oxygenate the water and this helps tremendously - in fact, it makes all the difference between the Koi going 'belly-up', or not!



Fish (especially Koi) disease control is



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
17/04/2010 20:05

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Message 13 of 31 in Discussion

Cont'd:



a whole other subject, and must be strictly adhered to!



Here's another tip for keeping pond fish in Cyprus: if they show signs of getting fungus, get a bunch of dried banana leaves and weigh it down in the pond - very effective cure, I assure you!



Ich is a problematical one - best remove and kill the affected fish ASAP! They say there are cures - I don't know of one.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
18/04/2010 12:37

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Message 14 of 31 in Discussion

deputydawg/Msg 10:



All you've described - goodo!



Except for 'mosquito fish' - these aggressive little so & so's are wrongly named in my opinion - they may nibble, occasionally, at mosquito larvae, but don't eradicate them, which if enough for a given volume of water, they should. They attack any other fish - even Koi. We introduced them, then got rid of them as their nuisance value outweighed their usefulness.



However, Guppies do feast on mosquito larvae - I've proved it. Guppies also breed prolifically in a garden pond in Cyprus - however, as the season progresses the offspring tend to revert to the wild species - even from the most exotic veiltail varieties. They only become 'veiltails' through selective breeding.



One thing I omitted to mention: NEVER introduce any native (or other) species of water weed from any Cyprus river, lake, or dam; because you'll almost always end up with a leech infestation, which, like warts in the 'nether regions', hard to get rid of!



deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
18/04/2010 19:26

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Message 15 of 31 in Discussion

Tenakoutou. Thanks for that. You are obviously very experienced and knowledgeable at keeping fish healthy and your love of the hobby shines through. Will keep an eye on the "little buggers" you mention but to date no evidence of aggressiveness. Perhaps some share the genes of the very aggressives who post from time to time, but such is pond life ! Have found that sometimes what is good for some pond situations is not for others. In keeping Koi, Carp, Tench, Orfe, Rudd etc for 40 plus years I have never had lillies being eaten. All my fish introduced when juvenile and never ever fed lettuce to give than such a taste for lillies. Lillies in buckets with no hesian or soil, only gravel, and thrive by taking nutrients and algae from the water with shoots protected by large rocks, not small shingle, at the top of buckets. Also support your warning re the sourcing of water plants and believe that advice holds good even in UK and also includes fish stocks from the wild



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/04/2010 09:31

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Message 16 of 31 in Discussion

We had, as I mentioned a triple tiered pond in our garden in the Paphos village - we had to move the water lilies to the pond that held the goldfish, which left them to grow - but the Koi were Hell-bent on destroying them. Strange isn't it? We tried various methods of potting the lilies, but none were successful in preventing the problem.



What we never got round to trying was a biological degradation type gravel filtre. These usually take up more space than a cylindrical type - I made my twin filtres using the ubiquitous Cyprus dustbin and standard garden irrigation hose and fittings and taps because I wanted what I hoped would be a quick, efficient filtration solution, because the algae build-up in warmer water is much quicker. To have waited for a gravel filtre to establish itself, or even work in Cyprus, wasn't an option I dared risk taking.



To be honest, having had the experience of building and maintaining a multi pond system in Cyprus, I would not recommend having one.



deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
19/04/2010 13:05

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Message 17 of 31 in Discussion

Yes, simple in Cyprus best. 50 x 15 ft 7,000 gal pond in UK but 10 ft x 5 ft here. Believe out of pool filter best for access and performance rather than gravel filter as integral part of water flow within pool as in unlucky event of bacterial problem simply shut off flow to filter and deal with it before pool polluted. Pool pump and aeration can continue in pool. Water and pool is situated below 6 ft of steps down to decking in hole so morning and evening Sun avoided and overhead Pergoda allows through only dappled midday sunshine. Filter encased in wooden cabinet to give decor and a bench. I Like bottom drains on large pools but "think leaks" when building. Drain at deepest point with bottom sloping to drain, with best quality piping and vulcanising of joints. Care needed with choice of outlet valve or standpipe as water being sent to waste full of grit and sediment which can cause leaks and difficulties when trying to shut off the water flow at the conclusion of use.



deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
19/04/2010 13:35

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Message 18 of 31 in Discussion

Dear Doggie, I hope you have found someone who can answer your query re Zerochlor. If not, I believe the MD of the Cyprus business posts on this board as Zerochlor and will have access to Chemists within that company. I too wondered if Zerochlor waste swiming pool water, after settlement and degrading of chemicals, could be used in fish ponds. To use any chemical in fish ponds should be a last resort and sometimes will treat but not long term cure problems. If you follow the advice of Tenakoutou to try to replicate what nature does in the wild you will do fine. At the risk of teaching Granny to suck eggs, I always try to cover at least half of the water surface with lilly pads in the hot months believing that to see all of your fish in gin clear water half of the time is better than seeing most of the fish most of the time but in cloudy water.



zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
19/04/2010 15:04

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Message 19 of 31 in Discussion

Hi Doggie. im trying to find out the answer to your question now. once i know i shall let you know.



zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
19/04/2010 16:57

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Message 20 of 31 in Discussion

Doggie



ive just had this message back



the answer is yes - but obviously as long as the quantities is monitored / or well measured

[16:52:08] : copper is used in aquarium water



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
19/04/2010 20:31

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Message 21 of 31 in Discussion

Indeed, zerochlor! Copper sulphate is used regularly, especially amongst aquarists (aquaruim keepers) to inhibit fungus related diseases - white spot, etc.



Perhaps, for the sake of those readers who are interested, you could briefly explain the 'Zerochlor' system'.



Is it the process whereby an electric current is passed between two copper elecrodes (rods) and this produces chlorine?



zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
19/04/2010 22:01

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Message 22 of 31 in Discussion

Hello tenakoutou.



No the zerochlor system is not as you describe.



Its as it says,its zerochlor, its a liquid.no chlorine.no chlorine produced, it has copper silver aluminium gold content.



doggie


Joined: 13/07/2009
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
20/04/2010 12:14

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Message 23 of 31 in Discussion

Thank you zerochlor for your answer we will try a very small amount and see if it works.



zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
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Message Posted:
20/04/2010 14:04

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Message 24 of 31 in Discussion

A little bit more than 1 cap full would be ok for around 1000 litres.your water would not need to be more than 0.4 to 0.7 PPM copper content.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/04/2010 07:42

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Message 25 of 31 in Discussion

If you bang a copper nail into a (pine) tree, it kills it - have you considered the effect on water lilies, or any pondweed? I found that Canadian Pondweed won't survive in the Cyprus climate - I'm not sure which variety will.



As I mentioned in Msg 8, I really don't think that there is any single other substitute [for keeping a pond clear] other than filtration.



You need to kill the algae at source - i.e., before (some say better AFTER) the algae laden water goes through the filtre. This is why an ultra violet light unit (light wattage is calculated on water volume) is almost indispensible - it also eradicates a plethora of other pathogens (nasties!).



The longest lasting submersible pump at a reasonable price (South) I found to be Grundfoss (Danish). Most submersible pumps cannot sustain a 100% duty cycle; so, like a pool pump, should be fitted to a timer.



frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
21/04/2010 10:11

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Message 26 of 31 in Discussion

Other than that, if you have Digiturk, turn to channel 423 and you can see the little fishes swim about without all this pallaver



zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
21/04/2010 12:00

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Message 27 of 31 in Discussion

Tenakoutou. message 25. this is why i said the copper level should not be more than 0.4 to 0.7 PPM/parts per million in the water,this is permitted levels.



Copper in our diet is necessary for good health. You eat and drink about 1,000 micrograms (1,000 ug) of copper per day. Drinking water normally contributes approximately 150 ug/day.



not that im saying it should be in the diet of fish in his aqurium



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/04/2010 13:25

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Message 28 of 31 in Discussion

Msg 27:



That's fine, zerochlor - all I said is that filtering is necessary, irrespective of chemical treatment.



zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
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Message Posted:
21/04/2010 13:52

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Message 29 of 31 in Discussion

You could well be right,i dont know much about ponds or fish.



maybe trial and error will find a way .



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
21/04/2010 16:02

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Message 30 of 31 in Discussion

www.aligator.co.uk fitted an Aligator system to the seal tank at Weymouth Sea Life Centre.

As these lovely boys and girls eat, pooh and pee in the water, it pretty soon becomes green and cloudy, and you can't see more than a metre into the water through the underwater windows.

Since fitting the Aligator the water is clean, clear and blue(ish). It hasn't killed any of the seals yet.

I guess if the seals can hack it, maybe fish can too.



zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 08:48

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Message 31 of 31 in Discussion

Hello doggie.



Any feedback on your pond and if you have tried zerochlor in it yet or some other fix?



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