TRNC advocates take note!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
25/04/2010 23:28

Landmark legal ruling in the South. UK couple sue their lawyer for negligence.



http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/2010/04/24/landmark-ruling-by-the-supreme-court

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 08:05

This is indeed a landmark decision but consider this recent case and see how stupid the buyers can be.



A client engages my wife as an advocate to purchase a property. He was in a hurry. He was told that he would really have independent advice and at the end of the day the client would decide whether to go ahead or not. The charge for negotiating the contract (whether the deal was accepted or not) would be £300.

The vendor refused to accept any vital changes to the contract i.e.

1. The ownership of communal areas like the swimming pool, the bar etc. "The vendor would allow the buyer unrestricted use" instead of "The buyer would have unrestricted use". The subtle difference is ownership.

2. A small amount of final payment to be retained until the title deeds were issued as an incentive for the vendor to issue title deeds diligently. The vendor refused saying they did not need any incentives!!

The end result: the vendor took back the special discount unless the buyer went to their recommended lawyer. So it was all signed and sealed immediately and of course the second lawyer was the good one because everything went smoothly!!!

So don't just blame the lawyers, blame yourselves as well.

ismet

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 09:24

It seems your wife is in the minority of advocates who show a duty of care. Good to hear but there are many advocates who have not been careful in their dealings.

Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 11:28

Interesting indeed.

Q. What would it take for the same to happen in TRNC?



A. Just one lawyer that is honest and uncorruptable and cares enough to prosecute crooked lawyers.

One that cares more about justice than about protecting crooked friends, family, villagers or fellow Cypriots!



What is Mrs Elko2 doing for the next 20 years? There should be enough cases to keep her going for that long!

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 12:59

Ismet, Msg 2 - You know this English saying quite well "you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

It sounds like Dolun Hanim was as usual giving honest "best advice" as is her way. The customer must have been desperate to buy something to have put their brains in their pockets like that especially as it is a buyers market.



John, Msg 4 - More like half a century and she would be the richest, most liked Advokat in the TRNC

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 13:07

Tom



Your last paragraph----- But not I suspect with other advocates or perhaps cruciially the judiciary!



Harold

DittieD


Joined: 08/04/2010
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 21:22

For 3 years my advocate Sener Law firm told me that

- my property was registered - it is not

- we had all necessary 'conveyance and permits' - this did not include a building permit

- My contract had been stamped and registered - it had not

Do I have a case????

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
27/04/2010 00:07

Perhaps she could advise clients to look at this forum before plunging head first into buying.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
27/04/2010 07:58

Hector,



How many times have we all told people on this and other forums to check everything a hundred times before signing etc and not to believe anything that comes out of the mouths of all builders, estate agents and all but one lawyer (respect to Ismets better half).



Yes it is boring but the people still ignore everything that they hear about buying in TRNC because they know better.



David

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
27/04/2010 08:03

Msg 9:



Much of the information buyers seek is only privy to 'lawyers' and estate agents and cousins - not the buyer or client.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
27/04/2010 13:30

msg. 9 and 10,

Unfortunately most buyers are lured by the sales talk or attracted to a development and all they want is to transfer the money and sign all the papers. They do not want to hear of any potential trouble points in the future. They see a nice developmjent there and all they want is to pay all the money up front and get the keys. They will sign anything and they do not want to listen to any good advice.



Couple of years later problems start about the delay in title deeds, the ownership of communal parts, who has effective control and the management of communal parts and you are supposed to pay whatever they ask because you already signed on the dotted lines.

Most of you recommended lawyers as if you were recommending a market. The lawyer who agreed on the sale contract in a day and had everything signed was the good one. Nobody is interested in potential troubles until they occur.

Don't make the lawyers the scapegoat at every instance. The problem could be you

ismet

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
27/04/2010 16:29

Any licensed conveyancer, let alone solicitor, of 5 minutes calling knows that to deduce title is paramount before steps like contract are undertaken even when the searches involved are delegated to the office cat. Mortgages and puisne mortgages are contracts of the utmost good faith where, when gained by deceit, heavy prison sentences are to follow (unless your name is Mandelson or Meddlesome as I know him). Many lawyers here accept monies from clients after contract knowing that the client is suscepitible to a legal charge on the property or it already exists. Government gave out figures of PTBs being signed when the truth was none were signed for 3 years and when builders demonstrated at increases in their taxes at completion government told them to ignore contracts and make the buyer pay. I have no problem with those who believe that foreigners buying here are likely to be subjected to a scam perpetrated by those in the process from top to bottom, but perhaps not the cat !

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
27/04/2010 16:36

message 9



And how many times were we told not to be negative,it was the Cyprus way, and if you dont like it ,go home.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
27/04/2010 22:59

'The problem could be you'



No, the 'problem' is the scandalous legal system that allows such injustices to continue i.e. allowing advocates to escape owing a duty of care to their clients, developers taking out mortgages on property already sold, banks lending money to developers against property they know has already been sold and paid for, to name a few.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
27/04/2010 23:13

message 11 I agree I think saome people leave their brains at UK airport terminals along with their common sense and business acumen. Some are blinded by price and the thought of owning somewhere in the sun, lets face it even now some purchasers have no idea of the process or the problems - eyes wide shut!



We took the risk and ours thankfully went tthrough we got our PTPtnow we have our Kochan and a good MC on site it has been a fight at times but all done



BUT it could have all been so different when I see a couple of the sites that we nearly bought on but things were not ringing true and we walked away !!

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
01/05/2010 15:23

I have just noticed that there are several plans with my contract, signed by my builder Cafer Yuceglazi and my Advocate Sener Law firm - but the plans are different

Once shows gardens in front of my house and the other one shows Hasan Sungur's house in from of my house - how can this be??????

There was supposed to be a garden between our houses and Hasan Sungur's houses on the only plans we were given. So presumably Cafter Yucelgazi and Mustafa Sener signed these at a later date. In future I suggest anyone who has signed a contract ensures that they sign every page and date them and get the advocate and builder to date them, that way nothing can be added after the contract has been signed.

Is this legal for the builder and Advocate to add pages to the contract after you have signed it and without your knowledge

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
01/05/2010 15:40

HildySmith/Msg 16:



When I lived in Paphos, it was common knowledge, but still advice frequently given to newcomer expats, or potential buyers:



'Never enlist the services of a Paphos lawyer to do any kind of business in Paphos for you!'



Of course, it's not my place to suggest what one should do as regards Kyrenia!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 00:39

'Fraud', not a word known in police or legal circles in the TRNC.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 19:36

That's because, all too apparently, the government choose to endorse 'fraud' by bestowing this said act, that they surely know to be utterly illegal, with legal status.



The judiciary, very conveniently, can only adjudicate according to the law.



How proud they must all be of themselves!



And are not RoC flouting EU law, also, somewhere along the line?



Does anyone, who is 'somebody' in Bruxelles, intend to do anything about it?



Unfathomable, as it is, to most of us, it would appear that as far as the EU is concerned, Cyprus enjoys some sort of priveliged and favoured status!

fazo1


Joined: 23/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 13:44

hi elko2 can i take a soliciter to court from uk useing a international lawyer thank you

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 14:00

fazo1/Msg20:



Presumably you mean a TRNC advocate?



I doubt you'll be too successful in getting an extradition order to succeed against said TRNC advocate, apart from the certainty that he won't come to UK voluntarily, in fact not at all!



A needlessly expensive and fruitless exercise, methinks!



It would be more profitable for you to pay your local farmer so that you can spend the time shovelling peas with a pitch-fork!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 14:12

msg 20

Fazo 1,

Only an advocate who is a member of the bar of TRNC can appear in court and represent a client. However a visiting lawyer can appear in court only with a member of the bar here. In other words, your lawyer can be at hand to advise. I think this arrangement is the same world over.

ismet