The People vs Pte Pike!!

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 01:22

Having only been a member of this forum a short while, i have noticed one thing stand out more than any other, Pte Pike!



I really cant figure out wether he does it to get all the attention, as most threads end up revolving around him! Or if others make him more of an issue than he really is?!



So I have made a thread all about Pte Pike...so we can then, hopefully, get back to the other treads and discuss the topics in the headline...rather than they all turn into threads about PtePike!



So i will begin with my own opinion:

Firstly, as mentioned, i have not been a member for long, and I cannot say I have read each and every post by PP. But, from what I have read, I can say I have learnt a great deal from him. He has been very informative and nearly always backs up his point with some refrences. His knowledge of the cyprus issue is clear and his posts are always well written, clear and easy to read.



He almost always has something to add to a thread and will always try to answer anyone that responds to him, sometimes in seperate posts as to make it easier to read.



I do however feel that PP feels the need to always come up with a very strong case against all things Turkish. At first, and I still do believe, that it is a good thing that we have people on here with different views about the cyprus issue. It would be a very boring forum if we all agreed with each other. And I can understand that maybe PP feels the need to put up a strong case for the Greek side as some people here feel soo strongly towards the Turkish side.



But I am under the impression he does it just to wind people up. PP might think he is putting up the opposite side of the coin as to 'open peoples eyes' to see both sides, but im now starting to think that the way he goes about doing it turns normal topics into heated debates and puts a wide rift between the 2 sides. And it is this that concerns me. And its such a shame. For somone who is so clearly knowledgeable on the cyprus issue, has a wealth of research material, is a joy to read and 'claims' to be netural, why not use it to better use?



I personally would love to read what PtePike really thinks of the Cyprus issue, his viewpoint on the history and what he believes will be the best outcome for the island in one long post.



Repro.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 01:33

You are right Repro but one thing is certain and that is the "TRUTH"

You can have your own personal views and believe what you like but you will find it hard to argue with the facts.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 07:01

At least he is able to put his point across without threats of violence, bad language etc which is what happens if you try to put a TC point across on GC BB's.



This is a free board and must saty that way. If you do not like what is posted ignore it. It is so easy to do, see a post that says Pt Pike and scroll passed it. EASY!!!!!!! Or is that too simple.

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 07:02

Like him or lothe him Pte Pike has an opinion, he is just as entitled to air it as all the blinkered ( in some peoples view) opinions on pro trnc.



I always remember an old nugget





OPINIONS ARE LIKE BOTTOMS WE ALL HAVE ONE BUT DO NOT WANT IT PUSHED IN OUR FACE.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 13:55

I've read with interest over the past few years many of Pte Pike's, aka Eric Seans and various other names, postings. I have to say that his knowledge of the Cyprus situation far outweighs that of any other board member I have come across. Whilst not agreeing with some of his posts I take my hat off to him and say that he, like any other member, is entitled to his opinion and point of view.

On a lighter note, I've saved some of the statements he has made on another BB over the last year or so. I call them Ericism's. He can be very witty:



ERICISMS.

"All-Bran sales among expats in the TRNC will nose-dive with posts like that,Erolz".

"Get off your donkey," you say. I'll have you know we go back a long way and I had her consent.

"Footnote 2. No point in getting my missus to kick my @rse with steel toecaps. She knows I love it".

"And this GC that knocked on your door the other day saying you were in his house. Did he come to you in a dream?"

"RU agreeing with me for once? We'll be announcing our engagement next"

"I've got cr*p shorthand. You can slag me for that if you like"

"I resemble that remark. Are you trying to inseminate something?"

"Are you admitting to being a masticator?"

"Despite your similarity to someone who fell into a coma in July 1974 and only woke up last week, I think I like you".

"Plenty of people imagine things and indeed overindulgence in some things can cause hallucinations. This may be at the root of your problem".

"I'm not so sure about a mod's tool but I think Paul Weller's missus can help you there".

"If English has been your main language since you were seven, how can it be your second language now?"

"Sweet irony is a fickle mistress".

"Speaking of panhandles, is that a bogus kocan in your pocket or are you just etc etc".

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 13:56

Reproman



Like you I have not been a member of this forum for long, however I have seen PP's posts on other forums under other names for some years now.



One thing is that his posts have always had the same consistancy. Others will compare it to a ferris wheel which goes around and around however in my view I think he has a much less than blinkered view on the Cyprus problem than many others who have contributed to many bb's over the time.



Lets not forget that there are many people in the TRNC who would be happy for the status quo to continue as it suits their agenda - remember no extradition.



PP has, as you can see from his posts, spent a lot of time both in Cyprus and researching Cyprus issues. Much of his postings tend to be from the outside looking in as a pose to many others, who have attacked him on bb's over the years, who prefer to look from the inside out but do not always see the bigger picture.



Freedom of speech is something we should be entitled to. If some members do not like PP's postings then they do not have to read them or indeed reply.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 17:36

Blimey - my very own thread! I'll attempt to respond to all so far. Repro, I suppose all of us who post here are attention-seeking to a degree whether it's to make a point, ask a question or challenge a viewpoint. I have been guilty of over-egging the pudding on occasion - we all have off days - but I meant it when I say I always post what is on my mind with sincerity and often knowing it's going to earn a me kicking. Most people want to be liked but I'd much rather say what I believe to be true and give evidence of why so rather than enter a polularity contest. If only because that is one way to discover who your friends really are and who is "dangerous". I use that word inverted commas, but I feel sure there are one or two people who would be quite happy if something were to "happen" to me if I poked my nose in the wrong place. Something nearly did, once. The flagpole death thread showed this almost promitive ice at the heart of some members.



It doesn't take the most intelligent or inquiring of minds to discover what lies beneath the veneer of the TRNC. I came to Cyprus first to the south, then the north, and I knew I preferred it here so I invested in a home. It's the easiest thing in the world to start a witchhunt against one person because he's different. But when this person's "sins" are simply speaking out in a desire to improve a system which could do so much more to help its cause, and then that person suffers the most vile abuse ranging from accusations of being a "GC spy" and having his personal details published to physical threats, then something is very wrong.



So Repro, that's why hard though it may be to believe (and a BB gives no advantages of body language etc) your "wind-up" comment us only true in as much as cause and effect. I can't stop someone without the inclination or intellect from losing the plot on a thread, often to be joined by the "hear hear" brigade who never seem to give their own views. Who gets accused of starting the trouble? Yours truly. Because its so much easier to gang up on one individual, as cowards and the ignorant often do. If I had bought in the south I would spend most of my time on an expat-oriented BB down there. And if there was something I didn't agree with I would be arguing the toss with GCs and expats in the RoC - most of whom would offer the TRNC and its inhabitants considerably less goodwill than me, incidentally. So most of this post is answering your points Repro. My own views on Cyprus may well follow (I've given plenty already) but I will finish by saying, again, I am completely impartial as regards both sides in the Cyprus issue. Wgat I am very much for is for people to stop dragging up the past hatreds. The blame game and mistrust has always been the biggest obstacle to settlement in Cyprus. When it comes from the truly stupid and ignorant it's even worse.



To the others so far, thanks very much for your support. A healthy and confident society shoud be able to confront its own shortcomings a well as other viewpoints without anger or hysteria. It's what our fathers fought for, isn't it? And Doyen - good to hear from you again. I really laughed at some of those "Ericisms" from yesteryear, but have to conclude most of them sound too quick and witty to have come from me. I'm obviously not the man I used to be! Cheers all.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 18:44

Pike



It would be interesting to find out why you decided to invest in the North.



And also if your investment is on Greek exchange or original Turkish title.



Biker

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 18:56

it on pre 74 british land deeds from roc goverment i do believe.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 19:41

Great post Reproman



I find PP extremely intelligent and knowledgeable about Cyprus although I don't think he is as knowledgeable as Erolz. (I wonder if Erolz is part of the working comittee on the Cyprus solution) . Sorry PP, Erolz is my hero, however, I have learnt alot from you. I must state I have also learnt alot from Erkan (ukturk)



I also think PP loves debating, perhaps this is his main driver. PP said something on a post the other day. I can't remember his exact words. It was something like 'I hate to lose a debate'. I think this was quite telling. I do think he likes to stir things up. I guess this is what reporters do.



Cyprus is an emotive subject, many people have got high stakes involved be that financially or emotionally. People also find it very hard to tolerate differences.

I was taught that in any communication that involves differences (which is often the case), each side goes through three predicatable stages. Firstly, we try and rationally convert the other with our truth. If this doesn't work we then start to get irritated, hence we then start to try and influence the other with more emotion often anger. If this doesn't work we then either ignore the other person or we try to physically remove them.



PP find similarities with us, respect our objectives and then we are more likley to be more amenable to you. The bigger possibility is that everyone can win in Cyprus. there must be enough to go around. Of course, if you prefer to stir things up then this will be difficult for you.



At the end of the day debates are absolutely useless without the possibility of resolution, the willingness to concede and the ability to build on points and not dismantlle. This is the great weakness of forums. Nobody on this forum has the power to change anything, so the possibility of going around in circles and endless arguing is very real when there are such differences.



ps I do admire his tenacity even if it it winds me up from time to time



pps I have taken my chill out pill

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 19:43

HE KNOWS JACK ABOUT CYPRIOTS ,BUT YOU KNOW WHAT ...HHMMM

I LIKE HIM











MUSIN

LONG REIGN THE TRNC

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 19:47

was it diamond shaped purple chill pill ?? long may you have the stiff..................................................Upper lip lol

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 19:51

I was hoping that you could supply me some of those type of pills Little Nige

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 21:07

Biker,



I invested in the north because when I started exploring the island in the mid-90s it was far and away the best part of Cyprus. The truth is the beauty of north Cyprus had absorbed much of the appalling overdevelpment that would have looked even worse in a less gorgeous place. But although it's at tipping point now, I'm still glad I did it.



As Nige says my place is certified pre-74 by both the TRNC and ROC and has been owned by GCs and TCs over the past 50 years. And possibly the British Crown before that, as it was the chief of police's residence. Another thing I like about then north is the history, much of it oral and still available.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 21:46

ilc,



We do all have things in common without even having to search for them. If you look at how things have panned out over the years you should see that it has been me who people have tried to marginalise, isolate and demonise. Why? Only because many of them have never heard any other version of history so anyone saying different must be an "enemy" or a "spy". But FFS, this only happens on a thread with political implications. If someone's looking for info about e.g. driving to Cyprus, travelling around the island, some historical point or other you can be damn sure that I will not bring politics into it and I'm pretty sure I will contribute more useful info than the usual people who attack me on the BB. Who, it has to be said, appear to know very little about Cyprus. And that's a shame because we all love the island so there's another thing in common.



I make no secret in believing in international law and conventions. It's just a pity that some people equate this with supporting the GC cause. There are people walking about on the other side who have dragged TCs out of their cars at roadblocks and murdered them and done all sorts of terrible crimes. If I had a home on the other side and was on the Cyprus Forum down there, I can assure you that I would be the one reminding them of who they are in the world, how they abused an independence that was supposed to be shared and how they cannot claim to speak for the TC community. And guess what they would call me? A Turk-loving spy for the TRNC who knows nothing about their Hellenic culture and heritage. Ironic, huh? I would then remind them they may speak Greek but their origins are Semite and thye have more in common with the Jews and Arabs than Alexander the Great. Who was actually a Macedonian but let's not go there. So I wouldn't be safe in the south either.



You're right. I do like a debate and freedom of speech. My business is in words so that's the way I go, and you're also right that it's what reporters do. The way to stimulate debate and get some reaction is to be controversial and the way to be controversial in Cyprus is suggest a different version of events to the norm. It's like lighting the blue touch paper. I suppose at the end of the day it's like increasing circulation to ensure the survival of your paper (or BB forum maybe?). Also, when I did more foreign stuff than I can now with two very young kids, the common denominator of nationalism and intolerance was something a journalist has to get to the heart of (and if he rates as a human being, break down if he can talk to people off-camera and off the record). I remember having coffee with some Serbs in Yugoslavia and explaining to them how the BBC and CNN were neutral and would never favour one side over the other. I was working for the BBC at the time, and still do. But as soon as I suggested these two omnipresent channels might just listen to what they had to say as well as the other lot, that was it. They were polite but they would not believe me. And there's people like that all around us in Cyprus - and North London. The only way to a peaceful future is by embracing your former enemies. It takes guts and courage but it can be done.

Lincsman



Joined: 02/04/2008
Posts: 117

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 23:20

What this posting(and many others like it) proves is that there is never black and white in respect of the cyprus "problem" there are many shades of grey. I really hope that eventually both sides can learn to trust each other enough to make a "solution" work.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 00:04

hi guys

im not saying i like pike and im not saying i dislkie him that would be a unfair judgement on a person that i dont know personally

i must say thou he speaks how he see's it, even if it is right or wrong, the way he portrays himself does come accross to people that he is being aarogant (thats probabley the reporter in him) but at the end of the day we all cant be perfect can we lol and the way we come accross in tex shows that sometimes but its good for a forum we have people that are not the same and just say yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir which leads on to my fav saying

' i would rather be hated for something i am than be loved for something i am not!!'

the only gripe i would say is that sometimes he counter questions a person's view or comment rather than acknowledge it and take it on board,

to other members i can understand why he puts your back up but some of you fall for it hook line and sinker, i say dont raise to it cos mr ptepike or what ever is his name is feeds on it and loves to sometimes stir it up this is what stimulates him!!!

pike one thing i have to say thou i agree with you about the bbc as a news channel unbiast and straight to the point even thou they have been accused of anti arab and anti israel biases and also being anti semitic, but on the other hand cnn i dislkie to me their slogan ' the most trusted name in news' is the complete opposite, all they are a bunch of jumped up americans being the mouth blowers for the time warner company turning the news into some big blockbuster hollywood film

it weird you mention north london the place of all turkish and greek cypriots they all get along with no buffer zone saying that thou Green lanes feels like that!!!! lol, but as soon as they get to cyprus things change especially with the youths, they cant really stand each other when out their so this is the key we need to educate the youth from both sides because they are our future

i would love to belive for a peaceful future you have to embrace your enemies but this is no good if one wants to embrace and the other one wants to back off, irresptive of the situation

warm regards to all

ukturk

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 00:36

ERKAN



the greek cypriots have never wanted too mix with us ,and slowly but surely

we dont want to mix with them , so far so good so lets leave alone.

beware of greeks bearing gifts ,(who said that).







regards

musin

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 00:58

At first i was a bit unsure as to outcome of this thread. My main objective was to make a place where people can all air their feelings about a ceretain individual, namely Pte Pike.

I was unsure about peoples reactions and the reaction of Pike himself, bringing a man to trial as it were! ( what gives a new coming like me the right??! )



But i am so glad i did, and the posts so far have been excellent.

I can safely say we ALL agree to free speech and personal views, even when they are different to our own!

I also get the sense that public enemy number 1 is actually quite respected and even liked ! ( ok thats pushing it !! ha ha!)



Apologies Pike for bringing you to trial, but i think it was needed to air some built up tension, that was appearing on some of these threads.



I'm not expecting this to lead to peace in Cyprus, but at least on these forums! Or at the very least, it will give us some understanding of where you are coming from.



I hope this will lead to more threads about the future of cyprus, possible solutions, ways in which we can help build better relations with all sides, a place we can all share knowledge and show a positive open minded outlook to the island that we ALL love...Cyprus.



p.s. thank you for some of your most revealing posts to date.



( thats one apology and even a thank you to PtePike! i need to stop this before his head inflates ! )

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 11:15

selamlar musin kardeş

you dont have to tell me on the situation everyone that knows me on this forum knows how i feel and what my view is, im just stating a fact that in london turkish and greek cypriots live side by side with no troubles even speak each others language

and when i say we have to educate the youth im not saying so they can live side by side in perfect harmony im saying to read past the propaganda and bull so their is no hate just understanding

regards

erkan

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 11:30

RE reproman : (...) I also get the sense that public enemy number 1 is actually quite respected and even liked ! (...)



Absolutely right! Pike or EricSeans is a very reasonable man. For instance. He never called the former President of TRNC, Mr. Rauf Denktash corrupt. He never asked insinuating questions about the capabilities of the TRNC Police. He never suggested nor stated that most people here live on 'stolen land'. He never... etc., etc. Yes, Pike deserves your respect - if you're blind for his hidden agenda*. If you agree with him - what are you doing here?! It's the same question I have asked this suddenly well-respected Pike many times. TRNC unfortunately doesn't have many ambassadors, but Pike (EricSeans) surely is the worst ambassador possible.



* Pike's provoking and often TRNC insulting remarks can be found on several Bulletin Boards. Respect? Disgust.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 12:24

Ah yes, you can't teach an old dog new tricks can you Dutchy? What a shame any form of bridge-building seems to be too much for you. In the past I've suggested Denktas was insincere at the negotiating table. But I've never knocked his superiority at sheftali eating contests (38 at one sitting with no barfing). And I've also suggested it's less than healthy for the democracy of the people to have TC police under the command and control of Turkey. How could anyone trust you as a journalist for impartial and balanced reports of the Cyprus situation when you're so obviously in bed with the politicians on one side?



Also, you challenged me to produce an international report on Cyprus that I have written and had published off the island. I came up with the goods and asked you to do the same on this board and the VO BB (where you get special protection because I'm moderated by those champions of free speech and democracy). Where's the evidence of your knowledge of Cyprus and reputation among your peers in the international media?



Reading on the credibility-ometer? Barely a flicker...

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 21:46

So, Mr. Pike, you are a bit disappointed that not everyone is in your fan club.

What we expect of the media (and what we are not getting so much nowadays) is objective information. Not opinions. Not a dismissal of personal first hand experience. Not personal insults to those whose posts you did not like.

Are you what you say you are? Why do you have so many names.?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 22:46

RE phylray : (...) Why do you have so many names.? (...)



I respect "Pike" hiding behing a handful of nicknames, I even respect that he doesn't dare to give his real name anywhere - "Pike" fears for the safety of his family. On the other hand he may consider why he has to be afraid. Imo his fear is caused by his own behaviour, i.e. the disloyalty he shows the TRNC, where he is a guest and where he owns a former TC house. TRNC deserves better publicity than the remarks from a hidden agenda of this honorary member of the GC propaganda machine.

daily


Joined: 01/01/2008
Posts: 84

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 22:53

That's more like the Eric Seans I remember. His attack on Dutch Crusader is pretty standard and reminds me of the numerous personal attacks he has made on other established boards over the past three years. He may be extremely well educated (one thing he loves to boast about), was once a lecturer (and now just lectures us) and works for the BBC, but all I can recall of his posts is the quite despicable level of arrogance he invariably displays. He respects no opinion other than his own and is one of the most unreasonable contributors to every forum in North Cyprus! He may have cleaned up his act quite considerably - probably been totally blanked on other boards - but this leopard will not change its spots!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 22:54

hi phylray

i did say that i think i like him ,which proves that we turkish are better at

forgiving,than the greeks, i mean just look at his postings

pikey has greek connections ,if his not full greek his half greek if his not his

quater greek or his married too a greek ,if he comes clean i would respect

him too,he shows no balance towards the two peoples ,and knows nothing

about cypriots i,ve said it before and i,ll say it again and again.

kind regards

musin

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 23:01

Quite!,



I expressed my opinion, and gave my advise weeks ago!



Do you ever feel better when you have debated with this man?



Then, as now, "an annoyance to the soul"



wyn

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 23:20

right,



it is not worth the importance people give him -

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 23:22

I feel better as I hae said what I feel. I hae been told that I am a strong woman. I dinnae ken this afore, but we all have our strengths , weaknesses.

No, I think not that he is Greek, or part/etc. Greek, but just trying to put across

an unpopular point of view. He has said that he bought in the north because in the 90's he saw it as the best part of the island. Well, some of us have bought

because we loved this place & have had reason to be here, friends etc. We knew long since that it was the best as our men who were sent here for national service etc. told us so, (and they sympathised with the TCs. as underdogs) They were also spat on and shot at. By whom....?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/07/2008 23:38

phylray.



He thrives on the attention. He plays the devils advocate, but when you agree, he takes the other point of view. He is not a debater,he is argumentative. He is an" annoyance to the soul"



Best avoided, in my uneducated, simplistic opinion.



I think this thread is out of order, because it invites character assasination,and that is not right .Against the spirit of Cyprus 44.com.



My view. That is all!

wyn

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
06/07/2008 05:20

You think this thread is 'out of order' ?



I made this thread due to people like yourself, contributing nothing to any of the other threads but only 'character assasinations' of someone who merely has a different point of view.



And i wanted to see an end to threads being side tracked in that way.



If anyone has anything to say about PtePike lets say it all now, get it off your chests and then we can get back to having decent mass debates with different views, from all angles and not try and shun people because they dare to challenge what we believe is right.



If he makes a point that you believe to be false...prove him wrong, with facts and teach him something he never knew!

If he is right, then he has taught you somehting, meanwhile..we have all learnt by reading it.

I have learnt a great deal about the whole history of Cyprus by reading these forums ( also using google to read up on points raised in the posts )...and I am a Turkish Cypriot.



One example of someone who i admire on here is UKturk, as well as being extremly helpful on all the other 'day to day' threads, he also jumps right into the middle of the political debates and remains calm, backs up his points with facts and presents them in a non hostile manner, without any personal attacks to whoever he is challenging.



I personally think having somone as intelligent/challenging/annoying as Pte Pike contribute to our threads and challenging our way of thinking is healthy. It pushes us to look further into what we know, learn more about what we thought we knew and open our eyes to all sides. If only people stopped taking it so personal and get over excited and heated.



Surly we cant believe that the Turkish side is completly perfect in this whole situation? surly we cant believe there is no curruption in the TRNC, yes both sides have their faults, but if we cant see our own faults how can we begin to forgive and forget others.

Just because someone dares to show us our faults, it doesnt mean he is against us.



We cant sit here all day and blame the Greeks for EVERYTHING

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
06/07/2008 07:52

Tut Tut Reproman,



I believe that it is up to me whom I wish to debate with.

This has always been a friendly board, and I for one would like to see it that way.



wyn

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
06/07/2008 09:45

here here wyn !

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
06/07/2008 10:01

" Surly we cant believe that the Turkish side is completly perfect in this whole situation? surly we cant believe there is no curruption in the TRNC, yes both sides have their faults, but if we cant see our own faults how can we begin to forgive and forget others.



Just because someone dares to show us our faults, it doesnt mean he is against us.



We cant sit here all day and blame the Greeks for EVERYTHING "



If only more people had this attitude / outlook here the place would move on leaps and bounds.



Thanks for sharing that.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 15:38

Msge 15

Good posting PP



I thought I would share with you my ramblings. I have only done so because of your last statement about ‘needing guts and courage’. I think this is true and I think there are other factors which are involved. I am very interested in the forces which drive human behavior and these are the lenses I use to make sense of what is going on in Cyprus.



Very well done to anyone who perseveres to the end. As you will see I do not have very good journalistic skills and am poor at tying points together but I have tried to do my best.



Yes PP, You and I do have much in common as does all of humanity. We all talk about TC's, GC's, British and Turks etc however, the eminent anthropologist Donald Brown established that we humans regardless of country of origin share 372 human universals. As well as universal behaviors Donald Brown also identified that we all share five deeply ingrained fears and five needs. These five fears intermesh together and operate interdependently, but perhaps the most telling in the context of human relations is our fear of the outsider, which is coupled with our need for community. Dr Howard Bloom uses a nice metaphor to sum up this fear (although he wouldn’t see it as a metaphor, more like Isomorphy)



“White blood cells in the immune system function as soldiers on patrol. They are constantly scouring the corridors of the body, prowling for intruders. As they move through the veins and capillaries, they encounter billions of friendly cells, and myriad scraps of flotsam and jetsam that belong to the body itself. Should they make a mistake and attack these compatriots, the body would be in severe trouble.



How does the immune system manage to avoid cases of mistaken identity? The cells of the body have the equivalent of a uniform – a chemical combination as unique as a human face or a fingerprint. What’s more, invading viruses also have a distinctive chemical costume. When a white blood cell detects the markings of the virus, it goes on the attack and sends out signals summoning it’s legion of confederates to the assault”



“Uniforms are necessary on the cellular level. They also prove to be indispensible to human society. Margaret Mead (another anthropologist) says every human group makes a simple rule: thou shalt not kill members of our gang, but everyone else is fair game. According to Mead, each group says that all humans are brothers and declares murdering human beings is out of the question. Most groups, however, have very strange means of defining who is human…………………….



“Like white blood cells harmlessly passing each other in the bodies corridors but destroying “foreign” intruders, humans of the same tribe recognize each other as the same flesh and avoid hostilities. A body is a collective of cells that have that have to get along to survive; a society is a collective of individuals that have to do the same



“Humans ranging from the most primitive to the most sophisticated form cozy in groups that assault outsiders, clumping together as competitive superorganisms. This tendency……is not limited to human beings. Lewis Thomas has pointed out that even lethargic –looking sea anemones engage in cold wars. Two seemingly identical patches of anemones on a rock may appear to live in peaceful harmony. In reality, however, the colonies edge against each other, aggressively trying to dislodge the rival community from the rock they both call home. Like white blood cells and the denizens of the primitive tribe the members of each anemone clump know who is one of “us” and who is one of “them”.



“According to Harvards) E O Wilson (an evolutionary psychologist), xenophobia the fear and hatred of interlopers, is universal in higher animals.” end of quote.



I have always witnessed the fear of the outsider in the UK, however, I am increasingly hearing this fear being expressed by whi

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 16:00

excellent , great post ilc

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 16:07

F.A.O PtePike

Between 1958 until prior to the invasion equal numbers of lives were lost.The invasion took something like 6000 lives of Armenian,Greek,Maronite and other Cypriots. there were atrocities in the recent past on both sides.The invasion was legal under the treaty of guarantee only up until the restoration of the constitution.That did not happen as expansionsim was the true motive.The unilateral ethnic cleansing of almost every last non ethnic Turk,is a breach of the Geneva Convention on Human Rights.This breach is ongoing.You should consult doctors who practiced on the British Bases in the area to see the number of abortions they had to conduct as a result of mass rapes.You should also note that Turkish Cypriots only have legal title to 8% of the land from which all other Cypriots have been illegally ethnically cleansed. It is not a clear cut issue that 800 people dying between 1958 to 1996 automatically legalises ethnic cleansing and invalidates UN embargoes against the occupation.You will never truly understand unless your family members are raped, killed and ethnically cleansed from the home their ancestors have lived for more than 3 thousand years.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 17:23

Thanks Simbas, glad you enjoyed it

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 18:51

ILC , an excellent post and interesting anaylsis. You've certainly presented us with a different way of looking at how evolving human nature/behaviours may influence political events.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 23:24

ilc,



I stayed with it until the end! You made some very interesting and relevant points which encompassed all the main areas related to states of minds among groups of individuals. I particularly found interesting:



"At pre conventional levels (which are loosely defined as pre western socialization levels) humans are governed by tribal and opportunistic ways of thinking, which are most closely associated with this fear of outsiders which I have mentioned.



"Tribal thinking precedes opportunistic thinking and although the research is very shaky the person at this level is very likely going to be governed by primal urges coming from the lower reptilian brain. They live for the moment and are not noted for their long term consequential thinking. Someone operating at a tribal level will need to feel strongly associated with a group. They need to belong to a group and will normally be asked to go through a rite of passage. Teenagers at this stage of development join gangs, and can often murder to appease and stay bonded with the group, if this is what defines the group (which is what we are seeing in London at the moment with knife crime)."



I found these passages most relevant to certain BB members and their behaviour towards an "outsider". I agree the behaviour could be considered primitive, but do you think education/ignorance comes into it as well? Just as we associate right-wingers as being conservative, nationalistic, racist and the most resistant to change, we also associate leftists as being progressive, liberal, non-racist and willing to embrace change and their former enemies . To put it bluntly, we often associate the right-wingers as being ignorant and inflexible and the leftists as being smart and flexible. Who wants thickos in charge, if you will? (Seans et al, 2008)



Do you see any similarities between some of the exchanges on the BBs with the Stanford Prison Experiment?



From what you've written, I've gone from seeing you as "just like the others" to the kind of person who should be involved in confidence building. Unless this isn't some kind of post-grad exercise in psychology, matey.





Opportunistic thinking is about being the strongest and toughest. An opportunist is not normally clever, they can’t think strategically but they are highly cunning. Opportunists often control Tribal people. Robert Mugabe is an example of an opportunist. Opportunists want power and do not listen to reason. Opportunists thrive where there is very little law and order. In fact without law and order it is often difficult for them to evolve.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 23:30

Aslan msg 37,



A brave post to make as a TC on a TRNC BB. In fact one of the bravest I've ever seen. You should be proud of yourself as a good Cypriot whom I would hazard a guess is involved in confidence-building at some level, be it high or low.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 23:50

phylray,



I think you come under the category of older people least amenable to change. You certainly don't like it when someone appears to know more than you and is prepared to prove it. You mocked another member for their English, announced somewhat pompously you were a teacher then went on to show you couldn't even punctuate a sentence or use apostrophes correctly. Forgive my doubt, but that is hardly the action of a genuine teacher with a first degree in English, post-graduate teaching diploma and registration with the General Teaching Council, is it? So many people aren't quite what they seem in the TRNC.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 23:51

Wyn: "Best avoided, in my uneducated, simplistic opinion."



You said it, mate.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 23:55

Daily,



Have another go at reading the relevant posts, do a bit of thinking, fire off one more and see if you can prove what they say about sparks being high on the pecking order among the horny handed sons of toil.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 00:32

PP



I have given you a very short snippet of the psychological models I proposed. We would have to spend more time together looking at them for me to convey their full meaning.



Anyway, there is a reasonably strong correlation between higher levels of education and later stages of development. The correlation becomes stronger when you add age. There could be something to be said of age combined with education equating with wisdom. I think the type of education may be important as well. A well rounded education encompassing the humanities etc may be preferable to sciences with a focus on reductionism. Meditation, a spiritual practice and befriending/confronting ones dark side also play a part in ones development.



In the model I proposed it is probably more likely that right wingers are more conformist and liberals more relavistic. Things don't always fit as nicely as this sometimes though. Liberals can become quite emotionally uptight if indivuduals break from the group and show a more conformist mindset. Research by Syracuse university professor of public administration Arthur C Brooks found that Conservatives donate 30% more money to charities than liberals(even when controlled for income). Conservatives also donate more blood and log more volunteer hours.



Zimbardos prison experiements were very interesting. I saw a similar experiement repeated by the BBC which showed similar results.

Zimbardo more recently made an interesting analysis of the Abu Ghraib prison tortures by American guards on Iraqi prisoners. The US wanted to attribute the event to a few bad apples, that certain people are disposed to violence. Zimbardo arranged for Frederick (the American guard accused of the event) to go through a numebr of psychological tests. What Zimbardo found was that Frederick was a normal guy with no sadistical tendencies. In generalising from his Stanford eperiements and Abu Ghraib he posits three factors which come together to create violence. The person, situation and the system interact with one another which can lead a good person to act in evil ways.



I am sure Zimbardo would say that many of the people involved in the intercommunal violence in Cyprus were actually good people but got involved in the situation and system. The same thing probably happened in Nazi Germany. Good people did evil. I understand what Zimbardo is saying as context. Context has a massive influence on how we behave. In fact it probably has more influence than disposition, something which I chose not to mention in my last post because I didn't want to over complicate it.



The famous Stanley Miligram eperiment about education also showed how good people can act in unhealthy ways.



In reference to the model I proposed people at the conventional levels are more easily influenced by peer behaviour and authority and can exercise behaviour for either good or evil.



With regards to behaviour on this BB. Yes there will be similarities between the BB and the Stanford eperiment, but I suspect fear plays a major part as does differences which I mentioned on my first post on this thread.



Not sure if my responses have answered your questions. Let me know if you see any inconsistencies or want more info

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 01:00

Really enjoyable reading ILC.



Just one small question. Where in your analysis do you see the concept of the disinterested?



I mean the one who is not involved, who has no tribal loyalties, who is amused by the aspirations and antics of groups, who for their own interest, move events or situations to explore and enjoy observing human reactions. They act like Opportunists but have no interest in power or title.



Mohammed (peace be upon him) recognised them. He named them "fitna" or mischief makers. He knew what a threat they could pose. They were the internet hackers of the middle ages, and today, there are many who would dabble in the processes of men to observe their bewilderment.



All men are fools, either by design or inclination, power leads to arrogance, either intellectual or military. Great thinkers or peace makers become sidelined and ignored. Lip service is paid by hardened politicians who quietly get on with power struggles.



Sometimes, it may be argued that it is the mischief makers who have the key to the human psyche by holding a mirror up to the human race and showing its ugly stupid reflection for all to see. They can be quiet and cunning, some have been outrageous, all have taken on board the principle that the emperor has no clothes or has maybe feet of clay. The poem Ozymandias springs to mind.



Where in your behavioural analysis do these mischief makers figure?



Just asking....



Lem

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 01:57

Hi Lem



I was going to respond to your posting the other day about planet Nibiru. You got my attention. Perhaps it is corresponding with the end of the Mayan calender. In my study of development models you suddenly start to realise that humans are part of a universe and very likeley influenced by it.



To be honest I have not heard of the term 'mischief makers'. I will have a look into it. It's a bit late for me tonight to do so now.



I have come to realise that the human psyche is immense and there is room for several models to fit inside each other like a russian doll (I am really comfortable with this even if others may not be). This is why people are so diverse and rich. The developmental model that I proposed is the large container and inside fit other models. For this reason two tribal people primarily will be governed by the codes relevant to tribal behaviour, however, their will be slight variations in their behaviour due to other psychological factors.



From what you describe two things spring to mind.

Firstly Jungs archetypes. One of the archetypes is that of the jester. The jester was the only one who could hold up a mirror to the king. The only one who could get away with it. This kind of alligns with more of an opportunistic behaviour. The oppoportunist does not fear death. The opportunist always believes that they will escape their demise. This is why they take such risks and act so boldly. Realising they could die forces them up the model to become a conformist. For example, young teenagers acting wildly from an opportunistic frame can suddenly find religion at the conformist level. Many prisoner inmates get converted to Islam i.e Malcolm X



Secondly, the work of Dr Michael Apter an English psychologist might shed more light. He stated that we operate from paired states. I wont go in to detail about the pairs, however, there would be an individual who could/can/do spend their time in playful, rebellious and mastery states. When you combine playfulness and rebelliousness what comes out is an individual who is highly mischevious. They like to cajole, probe, justle and tease without the need to conform or fit in.

This is perfectly okay but if you add the third state which is mastery then it might become interesting. Extreme mastery is about dominating and being in control. If the person isn't well balanced and cant gain access to masterys sister state which is symapthy (care) then extreme mastery combined with mischeviousness can create problems. Perhaps this is the personality of the internet hacker you describe.



If I have not answered to your satisfaction please challenge me. I like to deepen my awareness of the models

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 02:01

The peacemakers (the relativists) are at a disadvantage when the conflict between two groups persist because one group has an advantage over the other thus removing much of the incentive to reach a solution for that group that has the advantage. The peacemakers could even be from both the conflicting groups but are constrained without the starting point of both groups being (de jure) equal. The conflict persists because the group without de jure status believes its opposite has unjustly been accorded de jure status, when in fact it also once had de jure status on an equal basis.



This could explain why a solution to end the conflict may never be found.



An end to TRNC embargoes, isolation of the TCs and allowing direct flights to the TRNC may help the GCs to be more minded to find a solution to Cyprus.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 09:33

I think that there is something fishy about Pikes comments!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 09:52

reproman, message 31.



You state that I contribute nothing to other threads............942 postings so far!



What I DO NOT seek to do is contribute to arguments, personal insults etc



I guess what you will find when, and if you get to my age, that there is more to life than



dissent, backbiting unhappiness, fighting. Try humour, helping, a little kindness helping



others,reconcilliation ,peace. These are the things that will make a better world, as opposed



to a bitter world.................just my view.



wynyardman

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 10:10

Hi Donna



I have absolutely no evidence to base my comments on but I would suspect that there may be only a few relatavists on each side at the negotiating table. If they are the minority, which they often are, they can be swept aside.



Relatavists are likely to passionately believe in the spirit of win/win. Conventional thinking more naturally gravitates to hard ball negotiating, either win/lose or lose/lose (but they can learn the principles of win/win) . In the later, negotiations are slow and protracted with each side making minor concessions but expecting a greater sacrifice from the other.



ps In the BBC prison experiment the outcome was slightly different from the Stanford eperiment. In this one the prisoners took over the guards. The guards were unified in their objective whereas the guards were divided and uncomfortable in their role.



pps what are your thinking Wyn?

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 15:17

Aslan



Your quote : "The invasion took something like 6000 lives of Armenian,Greek,Maronite and other Cypriots"



Are you talking about 74? Where do you get these figures from?

And later you say invasion was legal.

If it was then it not an invasion it is intervention as it said in the Geneva convention.



You other quote:

"The unilateral ethnic cleansing of almost every last non ethnic Turk,is a breach of the Geneva Convention on Human Rights.This breach is ongoing"



Can you please explain where has this happened and is happening and who is doing it?



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 16:18

Biker,



The ECHR found Turkey inanimously guilty of human rights abuses in Cyprus on several counts. I can post the link if you like but Aslan may beat me to it.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 18:53

Pike



Please post the link I would like to check on these alleged numbers.



Does this link give any indication of the number massacred Turkish people as well?



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 18:59

Biker,



Just nipping out but here's something:



Complaints



Before the Court, Cyprus alleged violations of the Convention under Articles 1 (obligation to respect human rights), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, Articles 1 and 2 of Protocol No. 1, and Articles 14, 17, and 18. According to Cyprus, these Articles were violated as a matter of administrative practice by the respondent State.



The allegations concerned the following issues:



(a) Greek-Cypriot missing persons and their relatives



In respect of Greek-Cypriot missing persons, it was alleged that, if any were still in Turkish custody, this would constitute a form of slavery or servitude contrary to Article 4 and a grave breach of their right to liberty under Article 5. In addition, Cyprus maintained that there had been a violation of Articles 2 and 5 on account of Turkey’s failure to carry out an investigation into the disappearance of these persons in life-threatening circumstances and to account for their whereabouts.



In respect of the relatives of missing persons, Cyprus alleged violations of Articles 3, 8 and 10 on account of the Turkish authorities’ consistent and continuing failure to provide information on the fate of the missing persons.



(b) Home and property of displaced persons



Cyprus complained, among other things, under Article 8 (the continuing refusal to allow Greek Cypriots to return to their homes and families in northern Cyprus; implantation of Turkish settlers in northern Cyprus to the detriment of the demographic and cultural environment of northern Cyprus), Article 1 of Protocol No. 1 (denial of access to and enjoyment of property, re-assignment of property, withholding of compensation and deprivation of title), Article 13 of the Convention (failure to provide any remedy to displaced persons in respect of the alleged violations of Article 8 and Article 1 of Protocol No. 1) and Article 14 taken in conjunction with the preceding Articles (discrimination against Greeks and Greek Cypriots as regards, among other things, enjoyment of their property). Cyprus further invoked Article 3 (discrimination against displaced persons amounting to ill-treatment), and Articles 17 (abuse of rights) and 18 (impermissible use of restrictions on rights).



(c) Living conditions of Greek Cypriots in the Karpas region of northern Cyprus



As regards the Karpas Greek Cypriots, Cyprus relied on, among other things, Articles 2 (denial of adequate medical treatment and services), 3 (discriminatory treatment; in particular in view of their advanced age, the restrictions placed on them and methods of coercion used were said to amount to inhuman and degrading treatment), 5 (threat to security of person and absence of official action to prevent this), 6 (lack of a fair hearing before an independent and impartial tribunal established by law for the determination of their civil rights), 8 (interference with their right to respect for their private and family life, home and correspondence), 9 (interference with their right to manifest their religion on account of restrictions on their freedom of movement and access to places of worship), 10 (excessive censorship of school-books and restrictions on importation of Greek-language newspapers and books), 11 (impediments to their participation in bi or inter-communal events or gatherings), 13 (denial of an effective remedy in respect of their complaints) and 14 (discrimination on racial, religious and linguistic grounds), and Articles 1 (interference with the property of deceased Greek Cypriots as well as with the property of such persons who permanently leave northern Cyprus) and 2 (denial of secondary-education facilities to Greek-Cypriot children) of Protocol No. 1.



(d) Complaints relating to Turkish Cypriots, including members of the Gypsy community, living in northern Cyprus



Cyprus alleged, among other t

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 13:47

Aslan and Pike

(Maybe same person?)



Aslan

"The invasion took something like 6000 lives of Armenian,Greek,Maronite and other Cypriots"

Where is the reference to this 600 lives being taken in this article?



Pike

Where is the reference to this 600 lives being taken in this article?

Do you have anything else to support this claim?

Please do not publish an unrelated novel just the facts.



Is it not funny that some of these alleged missing persons are now being found buried in the south and were actually murdered by EOKA during the coup



Biker

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 14:46

I think Mrs Pike would have something to say, connecting him with Ms Aslan!!!!

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 13:46

Aslan

Thank you for your personal email to me that says :



"Don't take the comments I made on the People v Pike thread, it was a false and misleading comment, I am trying to get the w****r to tell me who he is."



I am relieved as I did not think this sort of comment could have been made by you and was in a shock.



This is an interesting scenario though.

Can other people login as yourself and post this.

Something for all of us to think about maybe.



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 17:54

Biker,



Sounds like a double agent, matey! If Aslan is trying to get me to tell her who I am, she isn't doing a very good job. She also isn't very well connected to other TCs if she doesn't already know who I am. Could you have inadvertantly blown someone's cover? Maybe I'd better bid her "yassas"!

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 19:35

Young Pike's name has been mentioned a couple of times on this BB.



Plus, I think it was last year sometime, he actually signed his name to posts on another BB. So no real secret.



I noticed on another thread comments about how this BB has changed and arguments taking place. The only reasons these things continue is because of you, the members. If you know what Pte Pike is doing why persist in responding. Personally I sit back and enjoy it.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 22:13

hi guys

ch i agree to with you to a certain degree, but why should us people who also know a thing or too about cyprus allow people to post their views on here so all newbies who dont know think certain members views are gospel and its up to us to educate these people not to just listen to one side of the story!!!!

anyone can read from websites and draw their own conclusions but it shows the depth of the person to look beyond all the pollictcal propaganda especially reports from the e.u,un the biggest puppet masters of all!!!!

to me i dont give a damm who pike is where he comes from what alligencies he has and when he last went to the toilet i have my views on cyprus which are not one sided otherwise i would be a bit of a uneducated biggot to post on this forum not knowing both sides of the coin

regards

ukturk

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/07/2008 07:29

Erkan,



I agree with you 100% on offering the full argument for both sides for people to then make their own minds as to which is correct.



My issue is against the whingers on all BB's both north and south who complain because one or other individual makes a posting that they do not agree with, and for the most part are unable to offer an appropriate response. In which case rather than the continuing, ban him/her, abuse etc just keep quiet and move to the next thread.



It is interesting that the MSN and PHB boards have debating sections and as soon as a thread in general drifts off into the usual the thread gets moved into there. Yet still those people who moan follow at times and persist with the inane comments. I have noticed that the debate section on Villa Owners is now almost deceased, I wonder why??



To me, this board has become better for a bit of heavy stuff and that is why I post more often. Sometimes the "banter" is fun but others just drifts into drivel so by adding an extra dimension the place has grown up in that it now has the full range of threads where people should dip into the ones "they" will enjoy.



David

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
11/07/2008 13:50

Pike



This is as good as any admission of guilt i have heard mate.



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
12/07/2008 11:35

Biker, I know. She's gone all quiet now.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
14/07/2008 13:54

No, That remark was for you Pike, but as usual you try to twist it.



Biker

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 01:23

Pike



Well, I am very sorry if I have offended anyone, as I did not mean to & have

said 'sorry' but according to you I am a horrible person who is pompous etc.

You are correct in that I am of an older generation, but no-one has ever said

of me that I was pompous or unable to change my opinions. Sad, if I have

come over that way to you. I can only say that you do not know me and I have

never in my life tried to hurt or offend anyone. I have found your comments

very hurtful.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
16/07/2008 16:23

phylray,



As interpretation has always been key to the study of English language I suggest you take a scroll back through some of your posts while saying to yourself: "Must try harder." Shouldn't be hard for a teacher of English. BTW, what's the position re GTCS registration? Jordanhill, even?

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
16/07/2008 22:33

Ah well, Pike, you are cruelly scrutinizing me! I can't be bothered scrolling

back on these. Can you? If you should, perchance go into any secondary school today, you would find that many (not all I hasten to add) have not had

a grounding in grammar, and their spelling is not all it should be. I don't blame

them. I have seen principal teachers unable to spell. You'll never catch me on spelling! You should know that no-one can teach in Scotland without full GTC

registration. Yes, Strathclyde & Jordanhill. Unfortunately, I was widowed in the middle of my training, & left with 4 kids. However, I did finish. Then the

80's & cut-backs. Dikensis gul olmaz!"



We all make mistakes when we are typing fast - and sometimes drinking!

Yah!