The talks - partition - ethnic Turkish Cypriots

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 10:13

My question for debate is

If there is a parting of the ways and two separate states is the eventual outcome of the talks what will be the status of the Turkish Cypriots who currently enjoy benefits from the South side, the GC administration is currently in the process of setting up a national health service which in the present situation TC'S will benefit from, would this still be the case if partition arrives.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 11:00

Also, would the TCs be allowed to cross over into th south every day to work there?

Geoff

martinev


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 320

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 12:49

Presumably, if both states are members of the EC, then yes to all the questions posed.



I think we are a long way off yet though.

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 21:05

Hello peeps

I think we are a lot closer to partition than to the EC and as for me they can keep the EC only my opinion

rdsteve


Joined: 01/03/2009
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 07:29

There is a lot to loose for TRNC if there is to be two serperate states like Erogulo wants. They for one will not be in the EU so they will loose EU money for inforstructure. No work in the South so lots of jobs gone. No Health Service. There are a lot of benefits that would go, but has anyone thought to ask the TC's what they want not the Turkish or the Brits as the are both sefish people who have moved to a country and are now trying to tell people how to run the Country. Yes there was an election the other week but i think you will find that the TC's voted for Talet whilst the Turks voted for Ergolu as for the Brits well they are just whingers at whatever Country they live inalways have been and always will be. North or South the Brits are all the same you chose to come here so adapt to the Cypriots and the Countrys way of life they should not be adapting to yours. Yes there have been a lot of people taken for a ride on property but did they do there research on the Country.

rdsteve


Joined: 01/03/2009
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 07:32

continued

Did they research how things are done here some do but the majority don't. As they say if you don't like it go home to the broken UK where things are not as rosie as you think.



Yes i am British and proud of it but i am sick of all the Brits moaning



Steve

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 09:11

Not all the Brits moan, most try to fit in.

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 09:45

WOW rdsteve I bet you feel better now thats off your chest

Yes I do agree that *some* English are moaners and whingers but the question in the topic was about the Turkish Cypriots and the benefits they enjoy currently from the south IMHO it was the mainland Turkish settlers who voted Eroglu in and as Steve says not the TC'S who favored Talat, maybe, just maybe they have a different mentality to the Settlers.

Up to the present time TC's can apply for a ROC passport, which opens up the world to them, the first passport they get is usually only for 2 years, I often wondered why ? but it is maybe in case partition comes then they may be refused renewals, again only my opinion

mags111



Joined: 17/08/2008
Posts: 251

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 11:15

I agree with Troodo. Most Brits who live here permanently, fit in very well and dont winge. You will always get opinionated idiots in any country who whine and think they can change things so dont tar us all with the same brush. Most of us here love the life, the country, its traditions and values. We had no votes in the election so how can we possibly try and change anything? I would rather be here than in broken britain.



Being in the EU isnt all good. I have friends in the south who say there is more crime there now due to eastern europeans coming in freely, robbing and conning people. The euro is appalling and the south very expensive.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 12:26

at the grave risk of being shot down by the legal eagles,

I would suggest that cyprus has been effectively partitioned since 1974

true, it is not internationaly recognised as such, but is in fact



there are many foibles and difficulties in regard to this last point

and as correctly observed tc's need an r.o.c. passport for most countries



concerning the question of some variety of evential merger, oops, reunion...

it is very clear that both parts of the island are diverging not converging

and what is really on offer to the greek cypriots has lessened over the years

so in all fairness to their side of the argument,

I fear we look in vain for acceptance from them in any forceeable future



yes steve there is a lot to lose, and some things to gain like security perhaps

but who was it who said politics is "the art of the possible"?



andre

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 13:52

andre 514/Msg 10:



Just that the 'possible' in TRNC seems to be taking a little longer, which relegates it to the 'impossible'!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 13:53

rdsteve



"the Brits are all the same". "all" would indicate yourself is included.



"Turkish or the Brits as the are both sefish people "



The turks have a right in how TRNC is governed,if the Turkish Cypriots do not want that then they should refuse Turkish taxpayers money.The Turks came here initially to defend the rights of the TC and some paid with their blood.The settlers ,later on, perhaps a different matter, but for their role to be commented on by people who on the main came here for the cheap property seems rather topsy turvy.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 15:47

by people who on the main came here for the cheap property - Girne 29, you are just as bad as steve with your sweeping statements.



Patientia est a donum superum

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 17:57

girne 29 line six



suggest instead:



...for affordable property, driving on the left, the sea fishing,

familiar british traditions lingering on, slow pace of life,

good climate, charm of the local people and culture,

remaining unspoilt countryside and beaches, fair living costs



andre

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 19:02

My reason for the topic is I have a good TC friend who is quite learned and a university graduate, he would dearly love to see the island unified once again with ALL CYPRIOTS living and working together in harmony without the influences of either Greece or Turkey, but alas he is realistic enough to realise that it is only a pipe dream, however he would settle in the meanwhile for a loose federation with both sides running their own affairs whilst trading freely on an even playing field, could it ever happen ?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 19:45

hi john well the talks are about to start again, may 26th. The turkish PM has also said he wants a solution by the end of this year, so we wait xx

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 20:52

Lilli, solution can be partition or re-unification or 2 federal states or bizonal or !!!

Personally I think it will be partition, then in the short term fireworks in the streets, dancing, parties then reality :(

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 21:02

troodo



It is more of a fact than just a sweeping statement. Just remember the conversations to be overheard on flights just before and after 2004.Hell of a lot of people could tell you the price of a villa in Catalkoy,less could tell you what the TRNC stood for.

I dont see what right we have for calling the Turks selfish for wanting a say in how the place is run.They have earned that right.Their fellow Turks fought for the place and have had to pay a huge amount of money since .



TC's might disagree on an emotional level, but would direct rule not improve the construction industry or tourism mess . Just compare the tourism industry in Turkey with that in the TRNC.



If no agreement with ROC ,then direct rule from Turkey is the logical step

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 21:57

the way of the world is "he who pays the piper" etc is it not?



in a parallel sense america has big strategic interests in eurasia/near east:

it is hardly necessary to cohjure up lsayers of intrigue, it stares you in the face



in a sense the ethnic tc's may be losing out to their mainland cousins but

...perhaps it was the lesser of two evils



as I've argued repeatedly, the gc's will not agree to any loose confederation



andre

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
03/05/2010 23:39

I promise,comments regarding msg5/6 DID NOT come from me.lol

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 18:51

msge 5



The poster is implying that the only route available to the TRNC is to receive funding from the EU.

Is it true that the only way for the TC's to improve their standard of living is through EU subsidies?

Funding doesn't have to come just from the EU. If the TRNC was recognised, they could then receive funding from any benevolent source who has a budget to provide aid. The UK gave 180 million pounds in aid to the Chinese last year (yes, quite remarkable when you think that China is bailing out the world and we are skint).



Of course, when you receive subsidies/aid you also have to comply to the conditions imposed by the donor. Many TC's seem disenchanted by the conditions imposed by Turkey (be that real or imagined) in return for funding. Would those conditions be any better under the EU? I suspect the TC's will pay a high price, which other posters have indicated on this thread.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 18:52

As much as aid is welcomed or passports granted, they only seek to remind you, that you are lowly on the pecking order of nations, and in the TC’s case a prisoner to the whim and will of other nations.



I am sure the TC’s don’t want to be anybodies lapdog. The way forward is for them to take whatever unconditional aid they can, but no country can grow strong with just aid alone. Aid provides the scaffolding, a leg up. It won’t hold up the foundations. The only way forward is for them to develop a strong and unique product under strong governance. Why sell your soul for aid. If you marry for money you will always forsake your power to another. They can have friendly relations with and trade freely with Europe, and like Turkey they can develop their economy by trading with North Africa and the middle east.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 19:08

Not sure hear so please bear with me.I f the outcome is partition,will people that live in the North but work in the South still be able to do so,

Paul.

kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 19:16

Message 22 "I am sure the TC’s don’t want to be anybodies lapdog. The way forward is for them to take whatever unconditional aid they can, but no country can grow strong with just aid alone. Aid provides the scaffolding, a leg up. It won’t hold up the foundations. The only way forward is for them to develop a strong and unique product under strong governance."



This is so true and unfortunately none of the previous governments to date have seemed to grasp this essential idea for forward thinking to boost and maintain an independant economy in TRNC. Yes, theTRNC has been isolated and subjected to embargoes, which doesn't help us, but the underdog always has to work harder to achieve and prosper, so I don't think it's an excuse for failing to get the economy in order. The TRNC has so much potential, but no one seems to want to make positive changes to benefit this country and all its residents, and while that kind of attitude prevails, how can we prosper?

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 19:30

Is rdsteve really a Brit?



If so the educational standards where he comes from were abysmal.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 19:32

So what if the outcome is partition then,

Paul.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 19:40

msg 25;

"Is rdsteve really a Brit?

If so the educational standards where he comes from were abysmal"





Would you be able to tell me,"what ones educational level has to do with speaking their mind"????

swannee7


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 19:47

Msg 22 & 24 . I share your sentiments but wonder if anything is really in place, at grassroots level, ready for the 'day of deliverance' ? For the economy to even begin to prosper and for international trade deals to be brokered in the interests of the TRNC, you've got to have had the right kind of education (and I don't mean basic schooling). Higher education students in NC need to focus on business management, economics etc.etc. That's just for starters. Above everything else though is the need for good, solid central government - minus the corruption that's been rife for so many years in NC. From little acorns....and all that. They need to break the old moulds and go for change in a big way and in doing so they'll make a big leap into the 21st century. Education has many faces and enormous strengths. Ignorance and apathy keep people in bondage in an endless cycle. That's my opinion anyway.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 19:54

At least the kids here can play soccer in the quiet side-streets late into the evenings rather then prowling the the streets tooled up with knives and tubes of glue in their pants!



Richard

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
04/05/2010 23:22

msg 24 kriss i have to agree , they will finf the way forward wigth thier pockets of gold, swanee i guess they bypassed the 20th century and came from a horse and cart to a merc, now how did they do that xxx brinss i agree it it still safe for kids, only tonight two little tikes came into the restaurant not a parent in sight, they were sat in pizzaking, there is still an innonece x

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
05/05/2010 00:06

From a personal perspective, I think that if there is partition the TC's will in the short term not be allowed to work in the south, and I cannot see the powerbrokers in the north lightly giving up their grip on the corruptive practices so blatantly obvious, the weight of world opinion will take quite a long time to be felt in TRNC and in the meanwhile the corruption will continue but lessen over the years.

IMHO

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
05/05/2010 00:48

sorry but I don't really get this "if there is partition" line...

there is already partition in a day-to-day sense, albeit unrecognised



if the meaning is instead "partition as recognised by the greek cypriots",

no I cannot see the greek cypriots en mass accepting this idea, not ever,

and they have said as much



finally, people are IMHO still laying far too much emphasis on the talks,

indeed the sides seem to have been ordered to meet again by the un rep

and there is very little in the way of common ground



I hope I am wrong about all of this but suspect I'm right on the button

and that wishful thinking has little part to play in a bitter dispute like this

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
05/05/2010 02:01

ilovecyprus message 22



What is the TRNC going to trade with in countries in europe .africa,mid east. Lifting the embargo will only make it easier for imports,



Some economic planning has to be undertaken now to promote a future viable economic society and ,until these plans bear fruit, Turkey will have to bear the expense.



One point ,if there ever is some sort of partition or separate state,I think big changes will be insisted on by the aid donors.Certainly the system, as aptly described by johndp message 31,is not one the EU taxpayer will willingly subsidise or the Turkish taxpayer continue to.The average taxpayer in those countries could be forgiven for thinking a country with one of the highest per head levels of ownership of BMW's and Merc's, doesnt need aid,especially when austerity measures are being imposed europe wide.