Proportional Representation- is it only going to favour LIBDEMS?

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 21:46

Today I watched Sky News and Lord Owen (one of the co founders of the LIBDEMS) and he explained a lot about PR and how it will benefit most.

His main point that struck a chord with me was the fact that the so called safe seats will be no longer that safe, he quoted that about 350+ seats were almost considered safe.

Looking at this my mind went straight back to when Shaun Woodward defected to the Labour Party and was'parachuted' into the safe Labour seat of St Helens and the local constituents were not happy, but as in most inner cities they know only one party to vote for- Labour. Yes its true of some of the leafy shire constituencies for the Tories but I am interested in finding out more on how it will affect Britain.

Dublinderm was very interesting on his comment of how in Southern Ireland its been put forward and rejected.

So hence why I ask this question, this is an unbiased opinion(as I am a Nationalist) and grateful that we keep it this way.But the desperation in Salmond uurg

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 21:53

There are many forms of PR but the fairest is 'The Single Transferable Vote'. Don't ask me to explain it, google it if at all interested!



Richard

dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 22:14

This is what I posted before.



We in the Republic of Ireland have had PR with unlimited transfers since 1920. It is by far the most fair and most entertaining for of holding an election.





FYI. PR was foisted on the Irish by the British Government in the Government of Ireland Act 1920 and it was the brain child of the Colonial Secretary one Winston S. Churchill. He believed it would keep us permanently out of political balance and too busy arguing with each other to bother him any more. Funnily enough he seems to have been proven correct, just for the wrong reason.





We have had (generally good) coalition governments continuously since 1989 without any apparent great harm.





The largest political party Fianna Fail have tried to get rid of PR on at least two occasions and both times they have been defeated in referenda. If we had had first past the post we would have had one party government since 1932 to the present day. Tell me that is democratic!





DD

dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 22:24

PR will most definitely NOT only favour the Lib Dems although it will result in fairer results vis a vis the 'popular' vote.

The main result will be stop minority/protest parties from upsetting the wishes of the greatest number of people casting their ballots, by eliminating their first preference votes and distributing the second (and subsequent) preferences to the runners left in the race. So a candidate will usually have to reach 50.1% of the vote to get elected in a single seat constituency.



Another point is the wildly different electorates in different UK constituencies with some MPs being elected with only 7,000 votes with others having to secure 18,000 or more. PR will build in quotas that candidates must reach before being deemed elected. Thios means constituency boundaries need to be updated regularly for population reasons.



I hope this is not to opaque.



DD



PS We love it!!!

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 22:36

DD

How the System Works:





Each constituency would elect between 3 and 5 MPs depending on its size. Voters rank the candidates, putting a '1' for their favourite, a '2' for the next, and so on. If the voter's first choice candidate does not need their vote, either because he or she is elected without it, or because he or she has too few votes to be elected, then the vote is transferred to the voter's second choice candidate, and so on.



In this way, most of the votes help to elect a candidate and far fewer votes are wasted. An important feature of STV is that voters can choose between candidates both of their own and of other parties, and can even select candidates for reasons other than party affiliation. Thus, a voter, wishing for more women MPs could vote for a woman from their own party and then all other women candidates, whatever party they stand for.



Richard

Sal1262



Joined: 03/05/2010
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 23:00

Proportional Representation brings with it the following advantages.

The fairer treatment of minority parties and independent candidates

Fewer votes are 'wasted', as more people's preferences are taken into account

Greater effective choice for voters. By reducing the dominance of the large parties, PR may encourage turn-out and reduce apathy

By rarely producing an absolute majority for one party, PR ensures greater continuity of government and requires greater consensus in policy-making.



Thatcher and Churchill doctrine being that PR will see off any chance of a Tory government.



A correction to message 1 David Owen was a founder member of the SDP, he has never been a Liberal or Liberal Democrat. For the 1983 and 1987 General Elections, the SDP joined the Liberal Party in the SDP-Liberal Alliance. The party merged with the Liberal Party in 1988 to form the Liberal Democrats, although a minority left to form a continuing SDP. David Owen stayed with the SDP until 1990.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 23:15

Hmm. Interesting to see 40 BNP MPs elected under PR. I suppose it is something we will have to live with.



Lem

dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 23:35

Lemtich,



there is always the danger of BNP gaining seats. But look at the situation in RoI.



Sinn Fein have to loudest voice, but they cannot get more than 5 TDs (MPs) elected to the Dail (Parliament). The British people are a lot smarter than their politicians give them credit for.



You are more likely to end up with Green MPs than BNP or UKIP.



DD

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 23:43

Interesting and informative - but how, if we do get it, are they going to explain it to everyone?

Sal1262



Joined: 03/05/2010
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
09/05/2010 23:51

Dublinderm



The Houses of the Oireachtas is the Parliament



Dáil Éireann is the House of Representatives



sorry to nit pick

dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
10/05/2010

Hi Sal the nit picker,



I am trying to explain to Brits! Give me a break!



Another title for the place would be San Quentin - or we wish it was.





DD

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
10/05/2010 08:57

PR won't favour the voting public!

Geoff

Sal1262



Joined: 03/05/2010
Posts: 174

Message Posted:
10/05/2010 11:36

Geoff,

A profound, no nonsense statement. It allows others to gauge your opinion (to a degree).



We are wait in anticipation for the justification argument that backs this up or otherwise it is in danger of being regarded by some as just verbal diarrhea.

vadiev


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 204

Message Posted:
10/05/2010 12:51

Geoff,



The system we have now doesn't favour the voting public in high majority constituencies.!!

Calvinhobbes


Joined: 25/04/2010
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
10/05/2010 13:13

PR - the end of stable government in UK. Better to have a bad gov than an unstable one.



As the Lib Dems would pass what is left of our sovereignty to Brussels, it is entirely in keeping that they have no credible defence policy, and would support a voting system which would invite constant chaos.



Doesn't help that the voting public really don't know much about what the parties stand for and go for the guy who looks best on TV

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
10/05/2010 15:16

Calvinhobbes

"Doesn't help that the voting public really don't know much about what the parties stand for and go for the guy who looks best on TV"



Speak for yourself.

A less partisan observer than yourself might have worded lib dem policy as supporting EU and getting rid of Trident

I and a lot of people ,know exactly what the parties stand for. Thats why the home counties will always vote Tory and Scotland will never. People are not as stupid as you make out, and, as in the example above, do know who best serves their own particular lifestyles or regions. The dire hatred for the damage done by the Tories in the North has the undemocratic effect of allowing Labour to think they can get away with anything for ever.

The same applies in reverse in the South where the fear of Labour and a working class ideology brings on nightmares .



An alternative to the above can only be brought about by PR.



As in my own case ,a lot of PR supporters are not necessarily Libdem voters.