Orams

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
19/06/2007 20:33

Anyone see the news today? The Lord Chief Justice stated that he will refer the legal fight over the Orams holiday home in Lapta to the European Court of Justice. The case has been adjourned until tomorrow. Will be watching the outcome with interest.

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
19/06/2007 20:50

Not sure it will make any difference as like GC and UK the European Court of Justice has no jurisdiction over TRNC. I could only see a problem if Turkey was close to gaining access to the European Union where they could be tempted into a trade off however thats years away and may never happen as Turkey will probably feel a stronger nation outwith the clutches of Europe. Whatever the outcome I will not lose sleep worrying about losing my villa.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
19/06/2007 21:58

Forgive me if I'm wrong but from what I have read the whole point of Mr. Apostolides taking his case to London was an attempt to get compensation from the Orams British assessts. The Orams have a house in Hove. Had the complainant been successful in registering the GC courts judgement from 2004 in London and the Orams had then failed to comply with the demolition order and agreed compensation, within a reasonable period of time, then the legislation would have allowed an application to the UK courts to seize the Orams assessts in England. If Apostolides is successful at the European court of justice the question is will the British courts allow this to happen?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/06/2007 22:35

Hi Bradus



I didn't see the news. I didn't know that it hadn't yet been referred to a European court. I thought this had already happened.



I have never heard of an Englishman/woman ever losing their home to someone outside the UK. This would be an absolute first and unprecedented.

I could be very wrong but I just can't see this happening, not for a country like Cyprus. (no offence intended to Cypriots)

Some of the stuff I have been reading suggests that Cyprus has been an unknowing pawn in the 'big boys' game for a long time and is likley to continue to be so, not to be in a position to rewrite Engish history.



The Cyprus issue does not impact English Nationalists directly, but they would surely be stirred in to a frenzy if an EU decision impacted an English national in such a dramatic way.



Hopefully the court will refer Mr Apostolides to the ECHR.



What do you think Bradus? What do others think?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
19/06/2007 22:55

I think (or hope) that Mr Apostolides appeal will fail and that the European Court of Justice will refer him to the TRNC property commission. I hope that he will be offered adequate compensation for his land but that the Orams will in no way have to cough up this compensation and certainly not be expected to demolish their property. I read somewhere that Mr. Apostolides legal fees came in at around £70,000 and this makes me suspect that his case is backed and the result of GC government "persuation" I have made many friends in the TRNC and I would certainly not wish to see them have to go through what the poor Orams have experienced. However I feel that this case will set some sort of precedent for future judgements. I hope that the precedent will be GC's go to the property commission and stop living in limbo. Isn't 34 years long enough?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/06/2007 23:45

Agree Bradus on all counts. Its more than likely that Apostolides is backed by the GC governement, so as to keep it at the forefront of the political agenda. If so it's probably good news as it is a desperate tactic. Hopefully, as a consequence the GC government will concede ground and allow GC's to claim through the property commission.



Saw on another posting, that a large number of GC's are surreptitiously buying property in the North. They probably know that the GC governmnet is running out of options

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 00:12

Agree ilovecyprus. The GC government is finding it harder and harder to encourage their peoples not to claim compensation from the immovable property commission. Hundreds have no intention of going back to the north and they have made a successful living, with their family and community iin the south. Claiming compensation would only serve to increase the quality of their lives. There is now a realisation that they are the losers not the GC government who sit very comfortably in their mansions. Perhaps they are begining to realise that the only people benifiting from these circumstances are the governments? The GC government stand to lose millions if they can no longer claim from the UN, money for their refugees! GC's and TC's are the real losers. I hope that they can be empowered to find and make their own solutions as I think the Cyprus problem is more likely to be solved by themselves rather than any political intervention.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 00:16

Ilovecyprus

The GC's are not only buying property in the North but they are also contributing very nicely to the north cyprus economy by being frequent users of casino and brothel establishments. (hearsay)

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 00:33

Bradus, Didn't know the GC governemnet was claiming money from the UN for their refugees - that's a twist.

I can well believe they frequent the casinos and brothels.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 00:40

Ilovecyprus,

is your apartment built or did you buy off-plan?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 00:41

I bought it already built Bradus, and you?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 00:44

must have been mad off plan. Left England saying would not buy off plan and then did u turn. Nerve wrecking to say the least.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 00:57

Hi Bradus

You don't seem like one to make rash decisions. I am sure you have taken as many precautions as you can.

I bought what I saw as I can't always see the vision that an off plan site presents. I am sure your vision is going to be matched your finished property

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 00:59

matched by your finished property

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 01:08

last visited in April and pleased with appearance although it looked nothing like the artists impression! Pleased with builder, given us lots of choice with tiles, kitchen and built in furniture.Hopefully it will be completed by November. Excited but won't relax until I'm holding those title deeds which can take years I'm told. When will you take possession?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 01:24

November is not long to wait now for you. I am hoping to move in next month.



Yeah, it's a pain waiting for the deeds. I looked at the HBPG website, and they seem to have got a promise from the government to speed up this process.



It's a teeny weeny bit worrying that it seems the Turkish military have hierachal control on the island so they can veto an application, and provide no reason with no appeal process. I think you have to ensure your property is more than 500 metres from a class 1 military site but who knows what they base their decisions on. They are not concerned with economic prosperity on the island, as they see their power assured.

Hey, but no point worrying about that.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 21:00

The worrying thing about the military base location is that estate agents don't seem to be pointing this out to their clients. We were shown a Turkish title deed apartment in Kyrenia that was so close when you looked out of the window you could see the fence perimeter with the red army notice attached to it. At this stage we didn't know about the problem with not being granted permission to purchase due to vicinity of army base it was our TC hotel owner who informed us. What a terible experience it would be for people who purchased only to find out they would never get permission to purchase.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 21:47

Hi Bradus



I lifeted this from another site, which was posted in response to the GC's view of the Osrams case:



"Being sent to European Court for them to revert as to definition of RoC article 10 when they joined EU. Not sent to them for a Judgement as being indicated in GC press as once they define it will be sent back to UK Court. This was the likely outcome from day one so not as GC press say a great win. It will take up to 2 years for them to define but most observers say RoC by signing article 10 have shot themselves in the foot so original judgement will stand in the end"

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 22:04

http://www.financialmirror.com/more_news.php?id=7335&nt=Politics



This view reads differently than the one in the Cyprus mail

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 22:22

This will drag on for years! Even when(or if) there is a verdict, not sure it will help solve the cyprus problem. From what I can see actions like this just increase further hostility and widen the rift between the two communities. Poor Orams, you work your whole life and just when you thought you could have this well deserved rest, your life becomes more stressful than ever before. Consider the legal fees! Lets hope we see new political leaders in Turkey and the RoC who have more humanity and put an end to this madness.

If only the communities recognised they are just pawns in the big boys game.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 22:31

The ROC press portrays this in such a way as to give the people hope that they can get their properties back. This only stops them from going to the property commission. They can only fool the people for so long



ps it only seems to be you and me concerned about this. Everyone else seems really relaxed about the situation

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 22:47

Yes I did notice this. I think Cyprus has a fascinating history and I just have this great thirst to know more and more about it. I am by nature a rather cautious person and need to do my homework before I committ to anything. (sad)

Some of the other forums are over the top in the racism and disrespect that the TC'S, GC's and English show to each other. This subject is however being debated on other sites and its interesting to see the different views and predictions for Cyprus's future. It's easy to just concentrate and dream about your new home and life and not what might be, as that might burst your bubble.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 22:50

you sound the same as me

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 22:52

Do you plan to live in TRNC or is this a holiday home or investment?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/06/2007 23:09

Holiday home and investment at the moment but I plan to live there, hopefully in 5 years or so when I have enough capital and have learnt the language sufficiently - and you?



I would really love the TRNC to stay the way it is. I walked in to the village of Lapta. All the locals were carrying on their business but everyone without exception gave me a big broad smile and politely said hello.

I was looking at some of the local fruit which I did not recognise. One of the young locals saw me looking and took me to his front garden where he had that same fruit growing. He told me to take as much of the fruit I wanted. He even showed me how to eat it.

Unfortuantely it will change, especially after it is gramted permission to trade directly with other countries. Of course it will mean our investments will increase.

Hopefully Turkey wont join Europe. If it has sense it will realise the EU doesn't deliver utopia

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
21/06/2007 00:29

As I said earlier don't worry too much about this as the solution will only ever be a political one which will take YEARS to agree on and will never result in your property being repossessed or demolished the only politically acceptable solution will be based on compensation. The big question is what value do you put on your plot??? some say that it will be somewhere between pre 74 and todays values if that is the case fine!! pay the valuation get clean title and immediately your investment triples in value. I bought a villa in Alsancak on Exchange land (Esdger title) after weighing up all the pros and cons and doing mountains of research both here in UK and in NC and decided that the qualities of NC which have been mentioned already in this thread far outweigh the risks. I would have much more concerns if I had a villa in the land grab areas of Costa Blanca, so my advice for all its worth is have fun in the Cyprus sun!!!!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
21/06/2007 01:22

Hi Wackyjim,



I agree with your thread. Despite all I also think North Cyprus is a good investment and how much money can you give for quality of life? Isn't that what it is all about at the end of the day. I think we are looking at Turkey joining the EU in about 20 years and by that time most GC's will be fed-up of the bull shit being fed from the CG government and will have settled in way of compensation from the property commission. Lets face it even if in the worst possible scenario and people have to pay a little compensation, where else could we have bought property in the Med at such bargain prices and any future settlement will result in massive price increases. I do however think that its important that people are aware of what could go wrong and that compensation might be due rather than just having a rosey picture. By looking at all possibilities you are making informed decisions and are more prepared for what ever might happen.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
21/06/2007 01:33

In answer to your question Ilovecyprus,

I have bought holiday home. Hoping (praying) that I retire from the NHS in 3 years, 4 months, two weeks and 26 hours so that I can spend more time in the TRNC. Also trying to get to grips with the language and if I can see a course that teaches Turkish I will certainly enroll as I'm not getting very far with my book and tape. Tried my best to speak Turkish when last in Cyprus but just kept getting told by the TC's speak English. Although in truth needed quite a bit of wine to develop enough confidence to speak the lingo so maybe it was just my slurred speech!

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
21/06/2007 02:43

Hi all,



Glad to see Ive found the happy owners site!

I am happy with my investment too- been to NC 2 months ago and fell in love with it so friendly, natural and unspoilt thats the attraction!



Personally I think that NCs economy is getting stronger from investors and will be better as it is!

I think that if the island becomes one again NC will loose its freedom, power, beauty and its charm..!!!



Take care D

wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
21/06/2007 08:46

Hi Bradus



Msg 27



I agree entirely with what you say here. Can I also add and I'm sure its something everyone buying in NC has experienced and that is it doesn't matter how much research you do and who you speak to nobody and I mean nobody will give you a definitive answer as to whats the right thing to do when it comes to buying and where to buy it really has to be your decision .I think it is that decision alone that causes so much self doubt and that doubt only seems to compound itself more when you are stuck back here in dreary old Britain, never mind I'm back out to my Villa on Monday for 3 weeks -- No more Prozac just an ice cold Efes on the balcony overlooking the floodlit pool and all of a sudden lifes problems just aint problems anymore, what price can you put on that??

Cheers to you all.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
21/06/2007 10:50

Spot on wackyjim



Noone can give you that definative answer. You would need a magic ball for that.

You do feel more safe and secure when you are in the NC compared to being back in the UK

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
21/06/2007 20:08

Are we all agreed then?

Live life to the full and make the most of our time in the beautiful TRNC. Only worry when we have to!



p.s. that'll be an ice cold Effes dark for me.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
22/06/2007 10:43

Hi wackyjim

I,m with you , spot on , but I prefer Effes Light!

cheers

p

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
22/06/2007 12:02

Hi,



This thread started off about the Oram's case and the court case this week in London.



Has anyone got info about the outcome, that was due on Wednesday?



MC

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
22/06/2007 12:33

Hi MCSTEVIET



I think we have all decided to forget about the case. Get p....d instead and enjoy the sunshine



I have followed a thread on another site to get more info but as usual with this site the posting has decayed into a scene more reminiscent of a zoo (sorry this is not being fair to animals, I am sure they don't act this way)



http://www.topix.net/forum/world/cyprus/T71URI2FLEMN7QQHD



Have you tried typing the case in to google.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
24/06/2007 21:51

Hi Guys

I think were being told off, for our relaxed attitude, lets face it, we can have no influence on outcome of the case. Weve paid our money, made our choice, I personnally happilily live it.

I thought this site was an informal friendly exchange message, local info advice source, I think someone needs to chill out .

If your looking for serious well informed legal opinion on such a complicated political issue, I hardly think this would be your point of reference.

Another effes please!

regards

p

B&BLondon


Joined: 31/01/2007
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
28/06/2007 21:05

Hi bradus. My husband and i (i'm bot the Queen..!) went to adult college evening classes last September for 30 (each 2 hours) Turkish lessons - it was really good.



PS Make mine 'sarap kirmizi'

(i can't recall the spelling but i can certainly get by and locals are amused and grateful that we make the effort!)

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
28/06/2007 21:18

B&BLondon,



Well done. I'm impressed. What does sarap kirmizi mean? Was the language everyday or lots of - the book is on the table. My nephew has 2 dogs!!!

Keep it up and keep practising. Have you bought in the TRNC? Holiday home or to live there?