reunification / possible or not

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 21:29

i would like too know what views some people hold on unification ,ie is it

possible is it workable ,is it inevitable and how much would the turkish people

lose just too have embargos lifted .

and are you in favour or against ,i would like too appreciate others opinions



regards



musin

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 23:01

The issues have not changed over the years Musin, it largely depends as to whether the people have changed.

Certainly the two leaders are different. Their will to find a solution, on eternal appearances seems to be stronger than previous presidents (certainly more so than Paps)

Do they want to reunite (the majority that is)? I have not seen any unibiased polls which conclusively answer this. The GC's voting out Paps probably suggests that there are a large number of GC's who do want to reunite.



I think the question for cypriots will be, does our reuniting provide me and my family hope for a better future, one where I can prosper and live in peace?

You are best to ask a TC this question to get the best response, but i would expect a TC to say that I will be able to propser under a united cyprus but I am a little cautious as to whether my people might suffer as a minority. If the GC's can make guarantees to the TC's about their security then this would allay some of the fears.

What about the GC's? I think they would feel safer under a united cyprus and feel liberated to experience the freedom of the island once more.



So, if the will is their can they find a way. Finding the will is one thing but finding a solution is another.

The main challenges as I see it are the Turkish settlers, severing ties with mainland Turkey and it's military, property and land rights and eqaual representation in governance.



If the GC's (with the help of the EU) can guarantee the safety of the TC's then the TC's will have to ask the Turkish military to leave. Under normal circumstances the AK party might command the military to do so, but this might be tricky at the present time. If the Ak party do have political strength and from what I have seen, I think they will pull the military out. This would be a big step for the TC's because by reunifying with the GC's they may never be able to call on Turkeys help again. Gc's will have to heal their wounds with Turkey at the same time.



As regards to Turkish settlers, well I think they are only a problem for the GC's because they occupy GC properties. This is the big issue. Erolz, who writes on another forum came up with what I think is a workable solution, but I suspect it still may not be good enough for the GC's.



So, in answer to your question. Yes, I think they can find a solution, but both sides will either need to increase the pie or be prepared to make some sacrificies. This won't be easy if you feel that the whole island should be yours.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 23:21

Unification - look out for those low flying pink pigs.



IE, not a hope until hell freezes over.



OR unless the 2 communists can sort it before next years elections here.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 23:23

ilc



i thank you for your honesty.





kind regards



musin

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 23:26

david

i thank you for your honesty too lol







musin

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 23:28

you are welcome Musin

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 23:38

Well said, ilc. I particularly agree with your point about AK pulling the Turkish army out of Cyprus - but wonder if AK would survive long enough before the deep state i.e. the generals made their move. Annan has been consigned to history, but can you invisage a proportion of settlers being allowed to stay as would have been the case in 2004? I think their presence and more to the point their labour will be needed in a new Cyprus. And I personally think it would be good to hear Turkish being spoken all over the island once again, just as the Greek voices outnumbering Turkish ones in Kyrenia blew me away when they opened the gates in 2003.



My contribution, having had some experience of multinational military and police operations, is this - the training up and establishing of joint Turkish Cypriot/Greek Cypriot patrols on the Green Line and Buffer Zone where both sides are in close proximity. If the cilvilian population can see that the very forces they relied upon in the past for security against attack are now cooperating with each other, a massive confidence-building boost will have been achieved that may well help swing a positive vote in the next referendum. They even use the same personal weapons, so rifle drills shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, just one crazy fool thought.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 23:45

Good points PP

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 01:11

If the GCs continue to believe that all Cyprus is theirs to govern and control, and they shouldn't have to power share with the TCs, and that TCs should accept the status of ethnic minority in their own country then NO, reunification will never be possible.



Bearing in mind that UN Resolutions have been unjustly in the GCs' favour and the fact that the GC government of South Cyprus is (unjustly) recognised, no wonder they believe they are the one and only government of all of Cyprus. How would anyone expect the GCs to give up all that power? They didn't in 2004 when the TCs wanted to 'make it up' with them, to unite and move on.



Excuses, excuses that's all you will hear from the GCs and we demand this, we demand that, we demand all of Cyprus.



The TCs are not that desperate-long live the TRNC, and the safety and security of the TCs and thank you to Turkey for all these years of help and protection from the GCs-not to be trusted-ever.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 08:13

It looks like a case of good cop bad cop to me.

The GC’s have gained time once more and warded off direct partition.

I gather they take over the presidency of the EU in 2012.

I seem to remember a comment by the new President to the effect that if the EU can handle Turkey then he can handle his chum Talet.

Let us hope we can make it to the elections, in 2009, before Talet does too much damage.



Troodo

Happy to live in the safe area.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 09:23

What do the 2 sides stand to gain out of reunification?



TC's - lots and lots. Free trade, easier travel etc., etc.



GC's - They already have everything the TC's want, so you have to wonder what they will settle for to make them go along with the deal. Settlers, the army and property have to be the only things they really want sorted.

windmill


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 10:56

Pike,you seem a troubled soul,you seem to appear on most postings on this forum,it is quite obvious that you know the history on the Cyprus problem,i can only think you are of greek origin or someone who always wants to win,you are only a lad of 38,we all find it strange that you spend so much time on this forum,do girls interest you in anyway (or boys ),we have met many pikes,would not say boo to a goose face to face,but give them a telephone or computor to hide behind and they take on the world

Someone refered to you as being educated on one post,on the cyprus problem maybe,on people and life itself you have a lot to learn

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 12:12

Windmill, why does PP need to say 'boo to a goose?' He's only speaking his mind. As for him having a lot to learn - even at his tender young age of 38 he seems to have seen and done more than most people on this BB.

julie.andrews


Joined: 09/07/2008
Posts: 27

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 15:21

I was discussing this with my learned husband, who argues that:

Firstly, I am new to the board so he says I may be moderated ouy, I never thought of that, but more importantly:



2 sides

Different languages

Different political systems – different languages

Different military’s– different languages

Different police forces– different languages

Different Customs systems – different languages

Different Immigration systems

Different property ownership systems

Different educations systems – different languages/curriculum

Different beliefs

Different administration systems, (one computer based, one biro/carbon paper)

Different tax systems

Different social care systems

Different GDP/Government revenues (per capita)

Different car number plate systems (simplistic but shows how far it goes)



Dress this up anyway you want, what you basically have from the last 34 years is the foundation of 2 separate countries.



Apparently there are about a dozen divided (sea) island in the world.

According to Hubby Cyprus presently is divided 4 ways, it has -de facto- (in practice, not ordained in law) division with TRNC, and -de jour- (by law) division with the UK Sovereign military bases. And technically, the UN buffer zone is also a -de facto- division as it is classed in international law as ‘occupied’ territory.



One side can’t even figure out how to put the trolleys away at Orphanedise, and the other doesn’t even think to turn off the water sprinklers on the roundabouts when there is a huge water shortage.



Now, does anyone really the list of things about could ever be fathomed out in a fair and proportional way??



Julie

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 14:05

Julie.Andrews



All the differences you have listed are TRUE, but both sides love to eat Sheftali kebab.



Don't you think that is a good eanough reason for unification?



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 17:43

Biker,



Don't forget both sides have a verified and significant hellim/halloumi capability which must surely lie at the heart of any future security in a renunfied republic.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 17:47

Windmill msg # 38,



Some of the people on the BB who know me may put you right about a few things. Apart from that, it's never too late to learn about this wonderful island and to stop wasting time thinking about people beyond your understanding.

brian24001


Joined: 23/03/2008
Posts: 606

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 17:58

msg #38???

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 22:34

hi julie

i would not take susanne post on reading pikes post for a better understanding of cyprus, i would take on board a few other members posts who have some sort of clue otherwise you will only come to the conclusion and summary of one person views which might be wrong or right but at least when you take other peoples views you can then make a firm descision yourself without being influenced



windmill its true it never too late to learn about cyprus but be carfull not to learn the wrong things from certain people on here and its good to spend time to understand people what they stand for and its never beyond you to find this out good luck on your mission!!!! LOL LOL



regards

ukturk



p.s pike what are you saying of course hellim has a major role to play aswell as patlican majun, pastrima, seytin pitta, kofte and lokma lol

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 22:38

Hi UKTurk. Have emailed you.



Lem

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 22:54

hi all

i have come to realise that when pte pike becomes irate with me he

corresponds by writing messages back in greek , is there hairline cracks

appearing,excuse the pun, but i am a builder.

oh and i dont understand greek .





musin