Single Sovereignty

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 16:05

Former trnc leader Rauf Denktash has said that issues of single soverignty and citizenship.Which the two leaders have taken agreement on will result in the dissolution of Northern Cyprus.He also said that Northern Cyprus will be transformed into a country with minority rights granted for turkish cypriots.



He went on to say that it was the greek cypriots sides aim to transform turkish cypriots into a minority,and to accept the cypriot republic as the legitimate government.Sounds feasible to me.Anyone have any thoughts on his staement and also views of their own,

Regards,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 17:33

Personally Paul, I think Denktash is right to voice his concern. I think it will be disastrous for the TC's and foreign purchasers

mountbatten


Joined: 12/04/2008
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 18:12

Ilovecyprus,would you mind explaining what you mean about disastrous,i do not really understand dodger post,i have aways valued your opinion.

Regards

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 18:45

Hi Mark hope you are well,

I too agree with Denktash and feel that if single soverignity did happen the north of the island would just get left behind regarding infastructure investment etc.With a greek cypriot in charge the north would basically end up with squatters rights.And seen as the poor relations.Without a voice its a real worry,

Regards,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 19:14

Thanks Mountbatten



From what I can understand the talks have been focused on a bi communal, bi zonal set up with one sovereign identity. My feeling is that not many commentators have paid much attention to this piece about single soverenigty, perhaps believing that Talat was playing 'call my bluff'.



After the last meeting between the two leaders Talat has eplicitly made greater reference to this single sovereign state, saying that there is no country in the world with two sovereign states. From what I can gather this confirmed reality has alarmed many TC's who favour an independent TRNC state, Denktash being one of those. Too be honest with you, I didn't really pay much attention to it either.



In my analysis I have tried to draw distinctions between what I think, feel and want.



I want what is best for the greatest numbr of Cypriots



I think there will be some sort of solution



I feel that ultimately reunification with an emphasis on a single sovereign state would be bad news for the TC's. Long term they will get squeezed by the TC's.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 19:15

sorry, meant to say squeezed by GC's

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 21:19

"One state with one soverignty is the only way forward"according to Christofias the greek cypriot president.And there is no plan B.Looks like he is calling the shots,which has to be a worry,

Regards,

Paul.

paul90


Joined: 07/11/2007
Posts: 350

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 22:07

The press release below is from the President's office dated 3 July.



President Talat Responds to Criticism Regarding the Issues of “Single Citizenship, Single Sovereignty”:

“First of all, if we desire the solution of the Cyprus problem, and if this solution is going to be a United Cyprus- not only in the context of the Annan Plan- if this is going to be a federal solution, unquestionably, there will be single sovereignty, single citizenship. No state in the world has double sovereignty. And no state has double citizenship. Therefore, it is beyond debate that there will be single sovereignty and single citizenship. There has never been controversy over this issue… The implementation of single sovereignty and single citizenship in our country in a solution will be discussed during the full-fledged negotiations. This is not an issue of an absolute single sovereignty and single citizenship. How they will be implemented here will be discussed during full-fledged negotiations. And this will be dealt with as a result of the 1 July meeting… This is an issue of sovereignty and citizenship of the new state to be established. As the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, we are not surrendering our sovereignty or citizenship. We are talking about the sovereignty of the new state to be established. Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots will jointly share the sovereignty of the new state to be established. In other words, we are not handing our sovereignty over to anyone. The sovereignty is being shared within the framework of a new partnership. Therefore, nobody can claim that we are handing over our sovereignty. They would not be telling the truth. We are not handing over our sovereignty. We are sharing. We are becoming partners in our own sovereignty. Our political equality has been secured too. Therefore, there is no need for any doubt regarding these issues. Some claim that ‘we are becoming a minority.’ Such allegations are somewhat funny because they are really irrelevant. There will be political equality, sovereignty, and still, we will be a minority? They have to tell us how they reach such a conclusion. Our agreement is completely compatible with the international system… A careful look into the issue would reveal that they are not correct.”



Presidential Press Office

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 22:20

"As the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, we are not surrendering our sovereignty or citizenship. We are talking about the sovereignty of the new state to be established. Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots will jointly share the sovereignty of the new state to be established. In other words, we are not handing our sovereignty over to anyone. The sovereignty is being shared within the framework of a new partnership. Therefore, nobody can claim that we are handing over our sovereignty. They would not be telling the truth. We are not handing over our sovereignty. We are sharing. We are becoming partners in our own sovereignty."



This couldn't be clearer could it. Anybody any wiser

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 10:04

Mark,

It sounds about par for the course regarding this matter.Wait while the talks begin on the 25th i am sure we will become even more confused if that is possible,

Have a good day,

Paul.

ajney


Joined: 30/04/2008
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 11:00

What are the implications for foreign property owners. As I look at it a single state would be a good idea but I have little understanding of the situation. Why would the brits not be welcome as they must bring a lot of revenue into the economy?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 11:25

Hi Paul



I am sure there will be lots more confusion.

I see Christofias has also drawn some flack from some of his people.

It is reassuring that there is mention of the annan plan in Talats press conference. Hopefully the working groups will be focusing on this. No point hitting the panic button just yet

It is all too early to speculate really, although we love doing it ;-)

Just have to wait and see

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 11:26

Hi ajney, my last post was directed at you too.

ebbern5


Joined: 03/06/2008
Posts: 79

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 11:31

I cant see why there cant be two recognised countries south and north cyprus.

they are two different countries.different language,currency,price structures etc.

personally I would not want the tax structure and prices assotiated with the common market not to mention house prices. It would be nice for the brits to gain value on their property but how could the locals ever afford a home?



And how could the north cope with the euro and immediate 17.5% rise due to vat alone.



lou

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 11:34

Just pulled this from the internet





Greek Cypriots hold all the cards’

By Jean Christou



CYPRUS reunification rests on the Turkish Cypriot ability to give in to all the demands of their Greek counterparts, according to the latest analysis from Stratfor Geopolitical Intelligence.



“The Greek Cypriots hold all the cards; as members of the European Union, they hold a veto both in Brussels and by extension at the UN Security Council, the body that would ultimately be responsible for any UN-brokered reunification,” said the Stratfor report.



It also said that as a political and economic backer of Turkish Cyprus, Turkey also ultimately would have to sign off on all of the Greek Cypriot demands because it could not match the sort of economic benefits that joining the European Union would create for the north.



“In essence, either Greek Cypriots will have all their demands met or there will be no deal,” the analysis said.



It said the two issues agreed upon at the July 1 meeting between the two leaders illustrated just how little room for manoeuvre the Turkish Cypriots had.



Stratfor was referring to the agreement in principle between President Demetris Christofias and Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat, for a single sovereignty and citizenship in a reunified Cyprus federation.



“A unified Cyprus means the Turks will not retain any political sovereignty in the north; their parties will represent the minority position and will always be outvoted on issues split down the ethnic lines,” Stratfor said.



It added that on top of that many of the 100,000 or so Turkish settlers would likely be excluded from a unified Cypriot citizenship, “further favouring the demographic balance in favour of the Greek Cypriots”. “Reunification on Greek terms, therefore, will see the end of the separate Turkish political entity,” the report said.



“The Turkish Cypriot press already has begun to skewer Talat for accepting the deal, and there is no assurance Ankara will agree either,” it added.



“In the end, Turkey will be in a deal-making mood on Cyprus only if it gets something in return – namely, a more favourable negotiating position regarding EU membership.”



It suggests the Turkish Cypriots could go against Turkish interests and make a deal with Greek Cypriots but that would necessitate severing their “economic lifeline” to Ankara.



“This would put them at an even greater disadvantage vis-à-vis the Greeks, who would then hold the vetoes in the international institutions as well as all the money available for the Turkish side.”







Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 11:48

So if Talat is prepared to sever ties with Turkey and Turkey is offered a good deal then the GC's can have what they want

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 12:02

so the TC's trade political freedom and equality for economic prosperity.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 12:22

agree with you ebbern.

The trouble is that the materialists of Europe have bought the principle that economic prosperity solves all our ills. It is true that economic propserity has much us richer and has improved our lives, including helping to create peace. It is not the only thing though. Gordon Brown is totally assured that Britain will be saved through a strong economy. It's one dimensional thinking. People crave other things as well such as community, strong bonds, security, respect, honesty, nature, spirit etc

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 13:22

Mark,

Very interesting posts as usual.They echo what i didnt want to hear really.It seems to me that Talat is there just to be the yes man and to make up the numbers.I still think though that when push comes to shove Turkeys negativety will prove to be a big obstacle,

Paul.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
12/07/2008 14:21

But the biggest factor will be the Turkish Cypriots themselves and whether they vote for reunification again this time. I think with leftist, moderate leaders on both sides the vote will be "yes". I certainly hope so for the sakes of all Cypriots.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 02:37

feel like the kid in the anderson story about the kings new "clothes"



isn't it all about whether the the turkish army stays or not?

seems blindingly obvious to me...

the south as stated elsewhere have little incentive to do a deal otherwise

not saying they would get up to their old shennanigans again...

but who really knows? maybe they don't know themselves yet!

this reminds me, that in the middle of peace talks and off the record

both the provos referring to the proddies

and yassir arafat talking about the israelis, are supposed to have said

"they'd better learn to swim"



have to take issue with a very well-informed tc friend

who says it is all to do with land questions that cannot be resolved:

well I think some sort of compromise is theoretically possible

that would leave everyone unsatisfied but be better for most cypriots

than the present impasse



but to take it all on trust without the protection of the army?

you cannot be serious!



que private pike "king of the agenda" to remind us how awful

the turks and their army really are, when I was under the impression

they were doing a great job protecting the people of north cyprus



andre

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 10:57

andre: "but to take it all on trust without the protection of the army?

you cannot be serious!



que private pike "king of the agenda" to remind us how awful

the turks and their army really are, when I was under the impression

they were doing a great job protecting the people of north cyprus"





If you feel like a character in a child's bedtime story and also know better than well-informed locals, perhaps you should really be asking yourself how much in touch with reality you really are regarding developments in Cyprus. ;)

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 13:54

Hi andre



An interesting post.



I think there is so much energy in the Cyprus system. It's been building up for years and it's overloaded. This energy is full of messy emotions, most of these negative. Something has to give, the damn at some point will break and some sort of resolution has to take place. It's a bit like the Berlin wall, the pressure built up and up and it came down. It was hailed as the new era, but are many of those East Germans significantly happier. Many crave for the nostalgia of the old days.



As humans we burn with the desire of that which we can't have, more so if something we feel is rightfully ours is denied us. We don't know if we really like it until we taste it. Does justice really relive our inner pain. I only hope it isn't a disapointment if a solution happens. As you say, a compromise can theoretically happen to overcome the impasse, but may leave the majority unsatisfied.



Inner peace only comes when we marry the stillness inside of us.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 14:06

"We don't know if we really like it until we taste it."



I used a that line a few times as a lad but they never believed me.



Not to take way from your post, ilc. Just in holiday mood.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 14:37

Didn't work for me either pp

system1


Joined: 13/07/2008
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 15:17

Pike,you are still a lad,38,and your other cyprus44 name is susanne

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 15:19

hi system1 , welcome to the forum , and is what you are telling us is a fact or a supposition ?

simbas

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 22:56

"Turkish President Abdullah Gul has said Turkey together with the Turkish Cypriot People wanted to bring about a comprehensive and lasting solution to the Cyprus problem.



We hope this objective will be realized. But, no matter whether this is realized or not, Turkey will be by the side of the Turkish Cypriots to the end. Guarantees for the protection of economy, politics and security are valid` Mr Gul said.



The Turkish President’s comments came during a visit yesterday paid to him by the TRNC Ambassador to Ankara Tamer Gazioglu who was accompanied by a delegation of veterans of the Cyprus Peace Operation.



The visit was paid on the 34th anniversary of the Turkish Peace Operation in Cyprus.



Welcoming the Ambassador and the accompanying delegation at the Cankaya Palace, Mr Gul pointed out that Turkey had carried out the peace operation using her rights stemming from international agreements.



`The operation put an end to the years long suffering of the Turkish Cypriot people. These sufferings will not be experienced again. The whole world should know this` the president said.



Pointing out that the TRNC authorities have been doing their best to bring about a lasting solution to the Cyprus problem, he said the 2004 referenda in Cyprus had proved which side was actually in support of a solution.



He noted that the Turkish Cypriot people wanted to live in peace and to protect their freedom and sovereignty, adding that this is a natural right for them.Mr Gul also called on the international community to live to its promises and to lift the international isolation on the Turkish Cypriot people.



For his part, Ambassador Gazioglu thanked the Turkish President for the support his country has been providing to the Turkish Cypriot people."

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 22:59

"Mr Toptan was speaking during a visit paid to him by the TRNC Ambassador to Ankara Tamer Gazioglu on the 34th anniversary of the Turkish Peace Operation in Cyprus.



Reminding that the Peace Operation was carried out to prevent bloodshed and to bring peace to the island, the speaker said the Turkish Side had proved the fact that it was the side which was really in support of peace in Cyprus by giving its backing to the UN Peace Plan, or as it was known the Annan Plan.



Noting that Turkey and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus have been pursuing similar policies, he said Turkey will continue to fulfill its responsibilities on the issue.



Mr Toptan pointed out that Turkey’s policies towards Cyprus are being raised as an obstacle in the way of Ankara’s EU membership negotiations from time to time but said `This is not important. Turkey will continue the policies it has been pursuing on the Cyprus issue no matter what the conditions and cost will be`.



He also repeated Ankara’s call on the European Union to fulfill its promises towards lifting the international isolation on the Turkish Cypriot people.



For his part, Ambassador Gazioglu reminded that Turkey has always been by the side of the Turkish Cypriot People.



The Ambassador said that the Turkish Side – which had proved its support to peace by backing the Annan Plan – is maintaining its positive approach towards a solution.



He also noted that the Turkish Cypriot People is only demanding their rights, nothing more"

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
13/07/2008 23:56

did anyone see that comment harking back

to the good old days of cyprus 44...

when most of the talk was about how many efes

or chardonnays the person drank the night before?

or am I looking through rose-tinted spectacles



think the present debate about "deals" is pulling us

into ever-diminishing circles, as the poet said



there is supposed to be a fairly crucial meeting between the

two sides in a couple of weeks, we will see...

all those in the north would be mad to trust the other side

but the army will probably stay whatever

several member states of the eu will keep turkey out come what may

like de gaulle did with britain all those years ago

both parts of the island have their economic and drought problems

and here in england the summer continues as awful as ever



andre

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/07/2008 00:09

Andre,

It looks pretty obvous to me that the Greek Cyps hold all the aces,and as usual the north will have to toe the political line.The people of the north would sooner have seperation but will not be given the choice ,so unfair,

Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
14/07/2008 00:28

well you may just be right paul:

many in the north must long for an economic boost

and an end to the conflict

and the whole thing could disintegrate into a munich-type sell-out

but turkey will never allow this to happen

they are there to protect the tc's

as well as turks who came to live in cyprus...

not hotheads up flagpoles or up the pole if you ask me



and for all the euro-waffle and human rights hoo-ha

the south still see the north as rightfully "theirs"

and would grab at any chance to seize control of all of the island again



andre

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/07/2008 10:40

Hi Paul and Andre



No question that the GC's see the north as theirs.



Seems quite telling that Gul and Toptan have declared alleigance to the TRNC, and even to turn it's back on the EU. Obviously the timing could be such to mark the Anniversary of the Intervention, however it iseems likely to be aimed at the GC's, which is saying 'your strategy of trying to split the TC's from Turkey to strengthen your hand in the negotiations is not going to work'.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
16/07/2008 16:31

System,



You make two assumptions and present them as fact. If you maybe had a bit of "dust on yer boots" in Cyprus you would not have made the post.

gillybean


Joined: 22/10/2007
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
16/07/2008 17:50

After deleberating over all that has been said, what, in english terms does that mean for brits, who have properties in trnc,

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
16/07/2008 17:58

It's probably too early to say gillybean. I don't think a clear and full picture has emerged. Some of the pieces on the chessboard have been moved but there are still alot of possible computations. We don't yet have any information on the output of the working groups. We might know more after the July 25th talks between the leaders.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
19/07/2008 20:35

Hi all,

Turkish Prime minister Erdogan will be in northern cyprus for a couple of days to offer his full support to Talat for the up and coming talks on the 25th of July.He is obviously taking this vety seriously as he is bringing 11 of his ministers with him.Could this be seen as a show of strength to the greek cyps.



Erdogan was quoted as saying that "developments in cyprus would be the main focus of his visit" and "we will not take a step backwards,we support the position of two equal constituent states"How could it ever be two equal constituent states,

Regards,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
19/07/2008 23:24

Hi Paul,



I see Our Supreme Leader Brown is on a Middle East tour.



Iraq this morning then two days in Israel. Do you think that he will have The Cyprus leaders



and PM Erdogan on his schedule?



Just a thought,



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
21/07/2008 15:08

Hi Paul



It's interesting that Erdogan has shown such strength by bringing a large contingent of his cabinet. I wonder if this type of prescence is normal for this event? I presume it isn't.



Showing such solidarity with the TRNC - could this be about, sending a strong message to the GC's, stating that turkey will always back the TRNC or are they concerned about Talats stance, perhaps trying to keep him in check, maybe being slightly worried that he isn't working towards the most favourable outcome for Turkey.



In any case, it seems that Turkey is not seeking to let go of it's prescence on the island.



Below is press realease from Gul. He has always been very consistent in his message, always stating that there are two democracies and two states in Cyprus.



Turkish President Abdullah Gul sent a message to President Talat congratulating the Turkish Cypriot people’s Peace and Freedom Day.



"There are two politically-equal nations, democracies and states in Cyprus. Peace and tranquility can be secured in Cyprus only by a solution based on the realities on the island,” Gul said in his message.



The Turkish President also said that Turkey, as a guarantor state, backed the goal to establish a new partnership in Cyprus.



Stating that the Turkish Peace Operation carried out by the Turkish Armed Forces on the basis of its humanitarian responsibilities was a turning point in the Turkish Cypriot people’s struggle for freedom, the Turkish President said that the Turkish Cypriot people proved its determination to live freely ever since.



The Turkish head of state also reaffirmed Gul's determination to support the economic and social development of the TRNC.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
21/07/2008 15:32

Hi wyn



I don't think so. I think his focus will be on Israel Iran. This is hotting up.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
21/07/2008 20:48

Wynn,

Cant honestly see n.c. receiving a visit from Mr Brown.Not unless he is granted permission from Christofias.Bigger fish to fry at the moment with Israel and Iran,

Regards,

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
21/07/2008 20:55

Mark,

Erdogan was actually slammed by the greek Cyps for turning up mob handed (so too speak)its all cat and mouse and at times i think both sides are as bad as each other.Whats annoying though is that the gcs always seem to have the final say on matters.And receive the more preferencial treatment.Cant really see hoe this will change either,

Regards,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
21/07/2008 23:40

hi guys

i cant see anything changing, the reason, turkey will never withdraw from n/c

and thats what g/cs want first and foremost .

nothing else really matters too them.

dirty harry


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
22/07/2008 00:12

One viable solution for cyprus may be country subdivision (CANTON), it has worked in the past (ottoman empire) and present, in many countrys Belgium,France,Canada,Switzerland to name a few.

The most internationally well-known cantons, which are the most politically important in their country's political system are those of Switzerland. The Swiss cantons are theoretically partially sovereign states.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
22/07/2008 00:33

DH Cantons have a certain ring to them. Could be an interesting option.



It seems that the GCs hold all the aces. Rights of veto etc.



The GCs want the Turkish Army out and the water pipeline from Turkey would be useful!.



Sounds like pretty interesting negotiating criteria to me!



wyn

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
22/07/2008 00:36

In the Ottoman Empire Turkey held sole rights over Cyprus. Remember it was the British government after WW1 who caused the seperatist problems.





There is only one solution for TC and does not involve GC.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
22/07/2008 14:13

Taken from Cyprus mail



"Garoyian said the statements at the weekend by Turkish Prime Minster Recep Tayyip Erdogan and by Talat were unacceptable and provocative.



Meanwhile, Christofias gave an interview on state television on Sunday night that was seen as his way of preparing the public for new negotiations.



He said the only way he would not go forward with negotiations was if the National Council – the advisory body on the Cyprus issue – went against him unanimously, not likely to occur.



Christofias gave a brief rundown on the basics of what would be on the negotiating table with Talat



This included one federal state with a presidential system, with a rotating Presidency, a Vice President and Inner Cabinet.



A Greek Cypriot President would hold office for a longer period, while the Vice President in that case would come from the other community.



The central state would have one sovereignty, one citizenship, one economy, and one international personality, while the two communities would have political equality.



Christofias said he would also battle for demilitarisation of the island and the suppression of foreign guarantor powers, a reduction in the number of Turkish settlers, and the right of return and property for Greek Cypriots.



“The solution will come from Cypriots, for Cypriots,” he said.



Christofias credited Talat with having good will and the realisation that a solution was needed. The two leaders were still friendly, despite the difficulties, he said, and Turkey should not try to discourage the two sides from moving forward.



He said every Cypriot needed to decide whether they wanted one or two states in Cyprus, and to have the courage to say what it is they want.



Many previous Greek Cypriot leaderships had badly failed to explain to the public what a federation actually meant.



Christofias will reportedly address the nation after his meeting with Talat on Friday to inform the public on his reasons to go for negotiations, or not, depending on the final outcome of his meeting. "

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
22/07/2008 14:26

The two sides look some way apart



During his two-day visit to the north, Erdogan spoke of a new state of affairs in Cyprus under the “virgin birth” principle, something that the Greek Cypriot side has said it would not accept under any circumstances.



The Turkish Prime Minster spoke of speedy negotiations and said Turkey would support the process started by the two leaders in March this year.



“Our expectation is for the comprehensive negotiations to proceed speedily and reach the target of a new partnership in harmony with the principle of ‘virgin birth’ between two equal peoples,” said Erdogan.



After meeting on Saturday, Erdogan and Talat issued a joint statement of common ground on a number of issues. Talat said he hoped a date for negotiations would be announced with Christofias on Friday.



“Thus, we will start the process for the solution of the Cyprus problem. It is a very big guarantee for us to know that Turkey is by our side during this process,” he said.



“We are pleased with the efforts of the two leaders,” Erdogan said. “We expect the leaders to agree on the commencement of the comprehensive negotiations under the roof of the UN, based on the realities existing on the island and within the framework of the good will mission of the UN Secretary-General.”



He said the solution must be based on equality, two founding states and a new partnership relation. He said the solution would be reached between “two equal peoples”. Turkey’s guarantee power would also have to remain in place, he said.



Asked to comment on Christofias’ statement regarding his visit to the north, Erdogan said: “The government of the Republic of Turkey takes no one’s permission as to where, when, why and how it will go. It is itself that decides for this programme. Furthermore, we have always been on the side of freedom and peace struggle and we will continue to be. This is the place we are on this issue. Exhibiting such an approach is actually an expression of how far they are away from peace. They should not expect from us a different expression.”



He said Christofias should approach the problem positively “like Talat” in order for results to be achieved.



“The other side has to accept that the solution will be reached by establishing a new partnership between two equal peoples and to give up trying to find new interlocutors and divert attention,” he said. “Everybody should now understand that the efforts of south Cyprus to take the Turkish Cypriot people under their domination and to expand their sovereignty over the north of the island are in vain.”



Talat said the Turkish Cypriots wanted to sign “an honourable and respected agreement” with the Greek Cypriot people, “with whom we are forced to share the island”.



“It is out of the question for us to be patched up to the Greek Cypriot sovereignty or to leave the sovereignty to the Greek Cypriots,” Talat said.



“Despite the fact that there is no reason to justify the Greek Cypriot side under the leadership of Christofias to evade the negotiations, we were unable until today to announce the starting date of the fully-fledged negotiations. The Greek Cypriot side has always run away from this.”

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
22/07/2008 17:20

Hi Mark,

And so the feud continues.My guess is that the gcs will enter the talks tommorrow.But will cut them short saying that they need more time to make sure that all measures are in place,

Regards,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
22/07/2008 17:44

seems about right Paul

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
22/07/2008 21:33

Hi Paul



It seems that the main opposition party in Turkey is concerned that Talat and the AK party are going to sell out to the GC's.



There was an article in the Cyprus mail stating that Turkey is not going to pay the TRNC civil service wages this month.



This interview with Talat is interesting. I think his goal is economic prosperity. The key question is, 'what is he prepared to give away to achieve this?'



Our economy can only improve after solution.

Nazmi Pinar asked “Might the big fish eat the little fish after there is a solution?” Talat said: “Today, we are trying to compete on unequal terms. Despite all the obstructions of the Greek Cypriots, tourists come from the South. If these obstructions are removed, our tourism will be stronger. While our busses and taxies are not permitted in their area, theirs are welcome here. They will not be able to hinder anything after a new partnership. They will not be allowed to reject visa requests, we have already agreed on this. There is no need to worry.”



The following seems confusing to me Paul. I thought he agreed to a single sovereign state



Sovereignty based on two nations is essential

At the meeting of July 1, Talat asked that “sovereignty be based on two separate nations, Christofias did not accept this, but we did not retreat.” Talat underlined that ‘the two nations’ concept was demonstrated in the 2004 referendum. This was also acknowledged in UN documents. Ultimately Mr Talat said he “would never accept a change to the principle of a ‘two nations’ sovereignty. This is essential and indispensable”

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
22/07/2008 23:08

Same interview. Suggets that Stephen Day in the Cyprus Today was right in saying that Talat is not happy with England. Hope this is aimed at the country, not Brits living in his beloved Cyprus



England has lost our trust.

Referring briefly to the memorandum signed by England and the ‘Cyprus Republic’, Talat said it damaged our trust in England: “They have signed the memorandum by isolating us at a most crucial period. They have cheated us. They have accepted the Greek Cypriot point of view, and our trust in them is greatly damaged.”

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
23/07/2008 10:15

Dodger,



I keep reading all these posts (and very interesting they are) where every word spoken by Christophias or Talat being analysed. What we have had to date is little more than posturing.



It seems to me that there are two core issues to be resolved. Both involve potential survival.

1 The Turkish Army.

2 Water supplies for The Island.



Now we accept that the GCs hold most of the aces. vetos etc., but if they want (and boy do they) the Turkish Army to go home, or significantly reduce its presence on Cyprus, the GCs

are going to have to give them something of what they want.



Work has started on the pipeline from Turkey where there is an abundance of crystal clear water, and that is going to be very significant over the coming years. Shipment by tanker is not a viable long term option.



The GCs readily admit they blew it the last time over The Annan Plan, and are not going to walk away so easy this time. Both sides admit this could be a last opportunity.



Interesting days ahead, and of course there will be plenty of negotiating antics, but from where I am sitting a settlement that is satisfactory to both sides will be reached.The leaders

have indicated the basis for a settlement, the rest is negotiation.



Chairman Mao said " power is in the barrel of a gun" Think about it!



wyn