Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship that sailed from Cyprus

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 07:35

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 07:38

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64T21120100530?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FUKWorldNews+%28News+%2F+UK+%2F+World+News%29

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 07:46

They were warned !!!



Everybody knows that you don't mess with the Israelis. Rightly or wrongly, you can't help but admire their determination to protect their borders.



Just my opinion of course



Paul

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 07:56

Reuters now reporting at least 10 dead.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 08:52

Just had a phone call from the UK doesn't look good lots injured as well as dead.

Just a wee bit close to home this time!



Chris

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 08:59

Israel is the one country in Middle East that will start ww3 not Iran, Iraq etc. It is time the whole world stood up to them with a wholesale condemnation by the UN.



They are starving a whole population and America for one condones it by inaction.



The stupidest thing they have done with this incident, there is a Turkish film crew in the flotilla beaming pictures back live.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 09:17

I cannot condone all of Israels actions, but Hamas have a big part to play in this horrendous situation. Stop firing rockets into Israel and maybe the two sides can come together and start discussing a solution. Until Hamas stop their actions, then I fear that we will see more of the same from the Israelis.



A really sad situation which would not appear to have any end in sight.



Paul

bridie


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 308

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 09:30

I don't think Turkey are going to just sit back and let this happen!

helper


Joined: 16/01/2009
Posts: 235

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 09:35

Aljazera reporting up to 15 dead, dozens injured. As they were in international waters, This is an act of piracy and and act of war against many countries, including Turkey, Greece, Ireland, I do not think Turkey will sit back either. I await these countries response which may be swift and deadly.

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 09:52

Israeli government urging Israeli nationals to leave Turkey and return to Israel.

Goonerboy


Joined: 01/04/2009
Posts: 723

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 11:01

Message 3, The attack took place in INTERNATIONAL WATERS of the Med. They were NOT within Israeli territory.



Aid ships were attacked, just heard the Red Cross confirming that 80% of the population in the Gaza Strip is dependent on international aid.



It was an unprovoked attack on an aid convoy.



Will anything happen, no of course not, the Jewish lobby is far too strong in the US.

OldDogs


Joined: 17/03/2009
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 11:36

friendshipaul. According to the BBC the ships were 40 miles from Israel in international waters. That's not protecting their border, it's an act of piracy not to mention thuggery of the type only allowable by Isreal and the US.

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 11:47

The blockade of the Gazza Strip by Israel has been going on now for several years,where the Israelies PERMIT some very limites supplies into the Gazza Strip.

This action was taken because the people of the Gazza Strip elected Hamas as their government.

They, the Israelies, have decided that they will dictate who the government should be. Not the people.

This is an illegal action by Israel and the world has sat back and ignored the conditions the people there have had to live under, much like the conditions that the Turkish Cypriots had to live under from December 1963 until July 1974 when the Greek Cypriots controled all good into TC villages and the world did nothing.

Israel does what it likes because the Americans will support them ' come what may '. American hyprocisy at work again.

The EU will carry out an investigation but the result will be ignored if it is critical of Israel.

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 12:36

Israel has just announced that death toll includes 6 Tukish fatalities. The repercussions are going to go on and on.

helper


Joined: 16/01/2009
Posts: 235

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 12:42

they reporting 19 confirmed dead, i critical, 26 injured. 6 are Turkish. Turkey has demanded release of all boats and people.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 12:50

Israel say the commandos were attacked and only defending themselves! Why were they on the boat in the first place boarding by helicopter drop?



Richard

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 12:56

You will note from my previous posts that I do not in any way condone Israel's actions. I was merely pointing out that the situation in Palestine is exacerbated by Hamas's continued firing of 1000's of rockets indiscriminately into Israel.

I also pointed out that Israel had repeatedly warned that they would not allow the convoy to go into Palestine, and judging by Israel's well documented recent history of rarely (if ever) backing down, it is perhaps a warning that should have been heeded.

Let us also not be so naive as to think that the sole object of this convoy was to deliver aid to Palestine, it was also to test the political will of Israel - in fact some news agencies are reporting that weapons were found onboard the aid ships.

That said, I agree that Israel's response has been extreme and also agree that without the support of the US they would not get away with half of the stuff that they do.



Paul

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 13:27

There ar always 2 sades to every story- but as already said- they were warned and Israel is a country that means what it says.

I am very interested in knowing what was the Cypriot Port the Aid Convy left from, can anyone enlighten me please?

nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 14:01

Would any other civilised country - UK, US, France, Germany, Australia, etc. etc. - carry out an act as agressive as this? I don't think so, not even China. The only country I can think of offhand would be North Korea. Is Israel part of the Axis of Evil? It is an absolute disgrace, regardless of the Israelie spin or their "warning" not to proceed.

Perhaps this time they have gone too far - international citizens have been murdered in international waters, not just peasant Palastinians within Gaza.

They need to be sanctioned by civilised nations - though I won't hold my breath waiting!

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 14:28

Nareik



None of the countries that you mention have a neighbouring 'country' who indiscriminately fires rockets across it's border or who wishes to see their country wiped from the map. Hamas continue to not recognise Israel and openly call for it to obliterated. Not the ideal stance from which to seek peace !

I agree that Israel has maybe gone too far this time but to compare the situation in the Middle East with the above is impossible.



Paul

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 14:28

perhaps if a convoy were to set off from Dover, full of Brits, and were attacked and killed by Israeli commandos in the international waters in the English Channel, some of you would wake up to what has just happened.

cyprusman3



Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 297

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 14:42

Some people dont realise that no ones got the right to kill anyone, how would someone feel if the person they loved was killed? I wonder !!!!

chris75


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 21

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 14:53

Paul



i think you are only watching Israil news Channels. By this way, you will really not understand who is firing rockets, believe me.Did israil stopped establishments even after international pressure. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10191339.stm ( Irish Times Israel to boycott nuclear-free Middle East plan )do they have or they haven't got nuclear weapons??) they neither said yes or no until now though.

Israil FM stating " there were weapeons in ships" Why would you send only few commandos once you know there were weapons in ship (kids, women ........)



Anyway, what happened was not right. We shouldn't look for excuses to protect Israil as people in Ship were NOT Hama's. ( Turkish, Germans........) & in international waters

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 14:57

Let's not judge this before the facts are known.



I believe amongst the Israeli injured was a solidier suffering from a gunshot wound. Unless this was a negligent discharge or friendly fire incident, it may suggest that the boarding party was fired upon.



As to why they rappelled down from helicopters, from an operational point of view this was probably deemed the best way to board. All soldiers like to practice what they train for.



Did you expect them to row across and hail:

"Ahoy! Permission to come aboard."?

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 15:00

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/flotilla-ready-set-sail/20100530

20% of the people over 60 on the boat oap fundamentalists

Israel state was formed out of the guilt of the halacaust and for long has engendered sympathy because of the displaced Palestinians refusal to accept their totalitarian anti anything but Jewish state .

They have a big USA lobby & support its time the world woke up to what this state does in this inherently racist & cruel state not to dissimilar to Nazi Germany

Rocker



Joined: 24/09/2008
Posts: 384

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 15:03

19 dead, Aljazeera been broadcasting live from aa ship in the convoy, until it was disconnected tear gas also used and the Isralis were all masked in International water. But by the outcry from around the world this will not go away.

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 15:03

This action by Israeli troops on ship carrying aid is inexcusable and is being condemned worldwide, as yet though there has been no response from America.

People losing their lives while trying to deliver humanitarian aid is wrong whatever the political situation may be.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 15:15

Vaughan, apparently the single soldier suffering from gunshot wounds had his gun taken from him and used on him. But I'm sure Israeli forensic evidence will confirm or dispute this. If the activists were armed there would surely have been more Israelis with such wounds.

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 15:20

Reports say 20 have died and the passengers on the convoy included a child of 1 and ane elderley Holocaust survivor plus over 20 M.E.P's. Greek Cypriot government stopped these M.P's boarding the vessels so the fleet left Famamgusta K.K.T.C. Israel warning it's Nationals to leave Turkey. Demonstrations in Istanbul and Glasgow. Convoy impounded in Israeli Port and tented holding camp for captured personnel.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 15:20

Chris75



Watching BBC World, CNN and Euronews - sorry can't get Israeli tv.



If you read my posts again, I am NOT condoning Israels actions but merely trying to put them into context when you consider the problems in the Middle East. Do Israel have a nuclear capability ? They have never admitted it but in reality probably have the most extensive nuclear arsenal outside of the major powers.



Vaughan - Spot on. Abseilling onto the target is a classic Maritime Counter Terrorism operating procedure.



I repeat, I DO NOT agree with what the Israeli's have done but if was a betting man, I would have bet my house that they would have intercepted the ships and I am pretty confident that those on board expected it as well. The fact that demonstrators were queuing up outside the Israeli embassy in Istanbul hours before the boats were intercepted would suggest that they were also expecting something to happen.



Paul

DesiH


Joined: 24/03/2009
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 15:29

These were not terrorists, these were men, women and children sailing in international waters about their lawful business. What has "counter terrorism operating procedure" got to do with it?

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 15:37

One mans' humanitarian aid convoy is a terrorist to Israelis its all in the eye of the beholder and for too long Israel have got away with regular murder of the innocent 1% Israeli casualties in the blockade to over 1300 Palestinian deaths

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 15:53

There will never be a 'solution' between Israel and Palestine until Hamas ceases it's firing of rockets, suicide bombing of israeli civilians and formally recognises Israel. Will this ever happen...hard to imagine.



However, I did 3 tours of Northern Ireland where I experienced blind hatred from the Republican community. Back then I never thought that the IRA would ever lay down their weapons and come to the negotiating table, but they realised that they were never going to win via the bullet/bomb and now NI is a relatively peaceful country.



Maybe if brave men can put aside their differences we may eventually see something similar in the Middle East ???



Paul

DesiH


Joined: 24/03/2009
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 16:01

I spent forty years in Northern Ireland and could be considered a Republican!!!

Not sure how that relates to Israelis murdering civilians in international waters though.



DESI

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 16:07

Desi



My use of the word Republican was to descibe IRA supporters/sympathisers.



My post was stating that if peace is achievable in NI then there is always hope for the Middle East.



Paul

chris75


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 21

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 16:17

Paul



Well what about new establishments???

Hamas rockets seem to be your main concern.



How many Israilis died in last decade due to those rockets? & than tell me how many Palestinians died in last decade? Mostly women & Chidrens



You must have rememebered 27th december 2008 Gaza Massacre ??

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 16:27

Chris75



I agree, Israel should not be building new establishments.

I agree, many more Palestinians have died than Israelis.

Rockets are not my main concern but I use them to illustrate that Hamas continue to contribute to the problem. If the rockets had been more accurate then I am sure that many more Israelis would have died - one of the reasons for the blockade is so that more technically advanced weapons cannot be smuggled into Palestine.. I could have dwelled on Hamas using suicide bombers (sometimes children) to kill innocent Israelis.



I am not saying that Israel are blameless, they have committed numerous horrendous acts of violence but it takes 2 sides to have a war and Hamas (a recognised terrorist organisation) play their part also.



Just my opinion of course



Paul

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 16:29

Must admit, this makes a change from debating football !!!

nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 17:00

Paul - Message 20: no-one, not Hamas nor anyone else, was firing rockets from the ship. No justification whatsoever in boarding the ship and murdering peaceful protestors.



Vaughan - Message 24: what right have the Israelis to board any ship in International waters? None.



And no response from the US. Most countries have condemned this outrage (France, Sweden, Turkey, Ireland, the UN, and I'm sure many more) but nothing out of Washington. Hugely disappointing from the Obama administration. I wonder if it had been North Korea who had perpetrated this type of unprovoked attack, how long would it take for the US to condemn them? My guess - less than 5 seconds!

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 17:16

Believe that Britian has refused to comment. Hope that Cameron is not going to be an American puppet.

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 17:20

http://www.gazaboatconvoy.co.uk

chris75


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 21

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 17:21

Paul



So you agreed that Israil commited numerous acts of violence , right?

& Hamas (A terrorrist organisation)? Right?

What about Israil ( ..................) ?



Don't take the establishments issue issue lightly, put yourself in their shoes



You are the one, who has taken the Aid Ships murders to Israil -Palestine Conflict

Ship had nothing to do with Rockets from Hamas.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 17:28

Nareik



Israel's justification will be that they have a blockade in place to prevent arms being smuggled into Palestine. There was never a chance that the cargo of these ships would be allowed into Gaza without the Israeli's having a chance to search them first. The convoy would not agree to sail into an Israeli port so they (the Israeli's) went out to meet them - just as they had forewarned. What happened next depends on which side you listen to.



As for no response from the US - not suprising really as the US is probably Israels biggest supporter.



I am sure that there will be more to this story than first meets the eye.



Paul

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 17:43

Chris



I agree that both Israel and Hamas have committed many acts of violence.



Is Israel a terrorist organisation - No, it's a country.



I do not take the issue of building settlements lightly. Building settlements/buildings on what could be construed as someone elses land could be deemed illegal. I am sure the irony of this won't escape anyone !!



As for the remainder of your post, I am a little confused. But I agree that the ship had nothing to do with rockets from Hamas but in my post at message 43 I commented on what justification I expect the Israelis to use for boarding the ships.



Regards



Paul

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 17:58

if Israel's blockade is internationally accepted then the intervention should be too. That's international law. However, the Israeli action plays into the Hamas' hands in causing international outrage. If they were to kill passenger Mairead Corrigan Maguire, the Northern Irish Nobel Peace Prize laureate, then symbolically they're stuffed!

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 18:45

OK, on a personal note. Just talked to a women whose son was stabbed with a knife by one of those "peace activists"...



No doubt, all the planning of the operation was erroneous. The operation’s commander thought that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence. Instead, they got Bangkok. You may not believe but the commandoes were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. The first small crew was only equipped with paintball rifles that obviously made no impression on the activists and they were attacked with knives, bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles. Only in the face of life-threatening situations they were allowed to use there handguns.



So ,you are invited to condemn this particular operation or Israel as a whole. Personally, as an Israeli, I think the defense minister should be fired for threatening his best soldiers in the operation that should have been organized different

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 18:47

Personally, I would let the rioters and their useful idiots go to Gaza and celebrate their victory with their Hamastan friends.



But please dont' call the passengers peaceful civilians. Some of them indeed were on the board. But the real players were well trained street fighters and it has nothing to do with a humanitarian aid.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 19:17

This has everything to do with humanitarian aid,and as usual Israel and its supporters will do anything to deflect blame and try to justify its deplorable actions.



Israeli commandos armed only with paintball guns?.....do you really expect the world to believe that?

Whistler


Joined: 28/07/2008
Posts: 1332

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 19:21

Does anyone know what port in Cyprus they sailed from.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 19:33

famagusta i beleive whistler x

Zoony


Joined: 26/03/2010
Posts: 136

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 19:40

Why try to negotiate with Hamas a known terrorist orginization who is sworn to the detruction of Israel a legitimate country it does not recognise and rather than sit at the negotiation table fires rockets every day into civilion areas, the people on these ships were warned repeatedly to tun round and refused to do so and were in no doubt aware of the consiquenses. Israel is not a country that will simply sit on its hands and to nothing or do other countrys give in to tettorists ?

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 19:46

http://.youtube.com/watch?v=DSFwyWyVo74

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 19:55

Maqbs



Presuming we believe the commandos were armed with paintball guns.Do you, as an Israeli, not see the damage to Israel is not in stopping the aid entering Gaza,but, in boarding vessels and killing people in International Waters.



Same as in Dubai. Leaving aside whether the victim deserved it or not. Stolen identies of other nationals were used and a murder was committed .



If everyone follows Israels lead and ignores international law and decides to kill in any country or place at will, then we are all at risk.

Any hotel in the world or any ship on any sea is a target and if my family or other innocents are in that hotel or onboard that ship??



People that normally do that are considered to be terrorists .Does Israel want to be known therefore as a terrorist state.

Also, those that break international law can hardly expect the protection of that law.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 20:09

The disinformation starts, and that is something Israel is very good at. The commandos had paint ball guns AND real guns. Guess which ones were in their back pockets.

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 20:13

The Israeli Nation seems to abide by no International Law, only that it dictates itself.

We are in year 2010 and to see fishing boats machine gunned, children shot by army snipers, Schools shelled and now this outrage, what next? Poison gas as was used on the Kurds??



It's shocking to see the wholesale abuse of Humans like this and it goes on.

Zoony


Joined: 26/03/2010
Posts: 136

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 20:15

mmmmmmmm let me think malsancak you have someone coming at you with a knife or a baseball bat would you use a painball gun or a real gun ? difficult one.

Zoony


Joined: 26/03/2010
Posts: 136

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 20:25

RedSnapper you only seem to see one point of view are you saying that Hamas are totally inocent ? if you are then tell that to the parents of the school bus that a suicide bomber blew up with 40 children murdered. or is it ok in your book?

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 20:41

Of course not but the might of a modern Army is pitched against mainly simple people who do have terrorists mixed in with them. The wholesale killing of people cannot go on, now Turkish people appear to have been murdered, maybe from the Turkish arm of Oxfam.

I think now they have stirred their big neighbour they may have to change their ways fast.

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 20:44

Watching Sky News and the Middle East bulletin boards it seems as though the World is outraged.



Nineteen or more dead and a couple of Israeli soldiers bruised just doesn't appear to seem right...

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 20:49

you know i hope the rest of the world is outraged, turkey will not accept this and who can blame them. it makes no sense xx

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 20:53

Plus it appears Turkey are now addressing The Security Council to condemn the action, i feel Israel may have jeapordised a very important allie in the Middle East.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 20:54

what are the UN saying anyone got links xxx

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 21:02

There's an emergency UN Security Council meeting happening right now.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 21:02

Now what did we Brits do about the Israelis in 1948 when they were terrorists killing our troops. We were in the same position as Israel is now.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 22:40

girne 29



Your criticism is the most reasonable here. And as for the decision makers and the policy I can also add my own one and a lot. Thankfully it is a free country and knowing 5 languages is quite helpful for me to acquire information from different sides to build my own opinion.



I absolutely agree with you that the operation and especially its implementation caused a lot of damage to Israel. As I said, I would let them go. The result of using force in the wrong case and the outcome of ordering soldiers to conduct themselves “sensitively” create the complete opposite – Israel loses its deterrent power. And that launches more provocation.



The issue of international waters is not the main point. The same would happen in a couple of hours near the shelf zone. It is too easy from outside to judge what is right and what is wrong but nothing is black an white here. And this raid is just another expression of the (probably) unsolvable situation we have to live with.

Noeler


Joined: 23/01/2009
Posts: 32

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 22:43

The Israeli Ministry of Defence is saying those who sailed on the boats were Hamas sympathisers or were unwillingly duped into taking part.



The Israelis for the moment are able to put their version out without being contradicted by those who participated in the sailings to lift the siege. This will change and it will be very damaging for Israel and further tarnish it reputation since the publication of the Goldstone Report on the Gaza siege.



Those who took part in the sailings were from very many countries (including Israel) - Parliamentarians and peace activists. Israel may also have fatally damaged relations with Turkey who has been one of its stongest friends and allies in the region.

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 22:47

http://.todayszaman.com

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 02:07

The Israelis are doing us all a favour taking care of TERRORISTS and there SYMPATHISERS in contast we dont have the BALLS in this country to deport known terrorists who want to place bombs on our streets killing men, women and children in case we infringe THEIR human rights.



The so called UK citizens on that ship and their supporters in this country names should be taken and the whole lot of them deported to Gaza as they are a danger to us all.

chessman2


Joined: 14/07/2009
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 02:12

I wonder if this was before or after the soldiers used firearms. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10199480.stm A justification for the deadly use of force or not?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 07:17

22 july 1946, King David Hotel.



No idea what I am talking about then look it up.



Israel was founded on terrorism, supported no doubt by USA.



Now they are encroaching further and further into designated Palestinian lands, fencing off poor people with massive fortifications from their homelands.



Then they wonder why!!!!!!!!!!



Israel took the underdog card for many years, now they are the bully boys of middle east, I think trying to provoke another war so they can take over totally.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 07:48

I think it is worth waiting to see what comes out in the next few days. As I have said before, there is more to this than meets the eye. At the moment, both sides are trying to put their sides of the story with limited evidence to back it up.

However, from what I have seen of the video 'evidence' so far, it does appear that the 'peaceful activists' did attack the marines when they came aboard the ship. Whether their (the Israeli) response was proportional remains to be decided, but without being there, it will be almost impossible to decide. Everyone is jumping to the conclusion that because 9 people were killed the force must have been excessive, but put yourself in their shoes, you are being attacked with iron bars, how do you respond ?

It also begs the question, if the aim of the convoy was to provide aid to the Gaza strip, why wasn't the offer of the use of a neutral port by Egypt accepted ? Continued..

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 08:00

The Gazans would have got their aid and this whole mess could have been avoided. The aim of the convoy was more than just providing aid to Gaza, it was about testing the will of the Israeli's and provoking a response. Unfortunately, but not unsuprisingly, they got one.



I in no way condone the actions of the Israeli military, but as an ex marine who has conducted numerous ship boarding operations, I have a good understanding of the problems that they faced. An iron bar, axe or knife can kill just as easily as a bullet. Excessive force ? I will leave that for others to decide.



Regards



Paul

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 08:05

The neutral port is not the issue the fact that Israel does not allow enough food and goods through for the Palestinians in Gaza and like it or not Hamas is the legally elected government in Palestine. All that Israel is doing is breeding more hatred amongst the Palestinians

The point of the ships was to highlight the plight of Palestine and the oppressive Israeli state at present the way that Israel treats Palestine is not too dissimilar to Warsaw and the Ghetto walled in starved of enough supplies and periodically cleansed

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 08:37

Wanderer



Hamas is no longer the elected government in Palestine. A unity government was formed in 2007 with Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) as President. Hamas are part of this government and control Gaza.



I agree that the blockade is draconian and that many innocents are suffering as a result. However, without the blockade in place, Hamas bring in more weapons and the whole violent circle starts again.



Hamas, could renounce violence, recognise Israel and maybe we could have the start of a peace negotiation.

I wouldn't hold my breath though !!



Regards



Paul

chris75


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 21

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 08:54

Turkey made a deal with Iran few days back, right? These murders are response to that



Israil getting weapons from........................



Recognise Israil, Hamas. let them make new establishments plsssssss. Let them throw you out completely from there.

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 09:38

Sadly this one will run and run as it has done since the state of Israel was formed. Some will never recognise Israel. To compare them to the Nazi's is on the level of chanting..'Munich, Munich 69' to Man Utd supporters. It is wrong and puerile. They exist and a solution must be worked out someday. They are heavy handed at times as they take the attitude that attack is the best form of defence. They sometimes get this wrong as it appears they may well have in this instance. The Arab states have often treated the Palestinians worse than the Israelis have. The politicians probably acted too hastily after the horrific Holocaust when they formed the state of Israel, but it is here to stay and constant accusations and hate from each side and other places will only exacerbate the situation. It takes real courage and intelligence to try alternative and positive methods to resolve this.

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 09:41

Munich, Munich 58' then. To be accurate.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 09:46

Isreal have shot themselves in the foot this time. Israel have always relied on Turkish support - no longer I fear.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 10:08

I suppose we don't have enough information to decided who is in the wrong but I expect the Turkish government will have. Perhaps we should see how they judge Israel's actions? From their response so far, it looks as if they believe Israel was in the wrong.

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 10:17

Munich 58 chant mindless

the siege of a city or a country is an illegal act

Warsaw Ghetto was an atrocity against humanity as is the blockade of Palestine even the hasidick Jews are against their governments action in Palastine

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 11:26

What does "golden boy" Obama have to say about all this then,

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 11:35

http://ussneverdock.blogspot.com/2010/05/israels-attack-on-gaza-boats-is-obamas.html

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 11:40

Yet another step along the path of The Rothschild plan to control the world, through tyranny.



wynyardman

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 11:59

Have just watched a programme on tv about the aid workers taking supplies through to the Palastians and what happens when they pass through the checkpoints.

It was an Irish aid worker who was followed and gave a commentary.

As they passed through the checkpoint the Israelie soldfirs fired their guns in the air and made rude comments which could be heard. The lady said that this was a regular occourance and just a few mornings before one of the soldiers said to her '' One of these mornings I am going to shoot you '' and then made an obscene comment.

Other aid workers verified her story and told their own which were similar.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 14:21

they are brilliant these 'Activists' now they claim all these allegations about the Israelis yet the camera footage shows them attacking the soldiers. 28 apparently now are UK Citizens

These people amaze me as to why they are there in the first place apart from publicity. Israel warned everybody that the Aid Ships will not go direct to Gaza, but gave an alternative, yet thats not good enough for these parasites. Israel is at war with Hamas and sooner these clowns realise that. I do not condone Israel in any way but are fed up of hearing these so called hard luck stories from these idiots. Bet you they are probably on benefits in UK and I will guarrantee that the Israelis will 'find' illegal style aid.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 14:22

Re 80 "the siege of a city or a country is an illegal act".



Wow! Really? And that is based on what?

First of all it's a blockade, not a siege. I hope you know the difference. A blockade is an absolutely legitimate measure of naval forces to cut off maritime communication and supply by preventing ships from reaching enemy ports. Btw, your country has actively employed blockades throughout the history. To be lawful there must be a state of war. The (legitimate, if you think so) Gaza government openly declared state of war with Israel. They have never denied it and clearly stated their final goals and objectives. And they are honest enough to admit what will happen when the blockade is lifted.



As for the humanitarian aid which Israel is obliges to supply, that was not the first vessel captured and the supplies they were carrying on board were later delivered to Gaza over land by lorry. The same was proposed but unfortunately rejected now.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 14:25

... Btw,why nobody's asking about the Egyptian (legitimate?) blockade? Why Egypt keeps its borders totally sealed and now building an underground steel barrier? And the last question is why all those do-gooders would not dare to transfer their aid through Sinai?

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 14:40

The blockade is there for a reason, okay its an Israeli reason, but as previously mentioned they have rockets, mortars etc fired onto their territory by Hamas who hide in Gaza. Would love these so called activists to be incarcerated in a compound when one of these rocket attacks is happening that will make them think again.

Also do not see much condemnation from anyone about the Hamas breaking out and killing 2 people last night!!

Yes amazing how blinkered vision some clowns can be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Totally support Turkey on their actions with UN but cannot understand why this was sanctioned by Turkey

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 14:49

some of the turkish detainees have been freed and are back in turkey giving accounts of their ordeal on trt turk channel , if appears the shooting was mostly from the helicopters ,and this was filmed from one of the smaller ships ,but was confiscated by the israelis . the aid will not go away ,there will be more ships taking

the same route and no doubt will test the israelis yet again. israel must tread very carefully ,as it is becoming

isolated ,the people of israel are aware of this and most are not happy .

america cannot be trusted to back the israelis 100 % ,israel has lost turkey ,turkey may cosy up to iran,testing

times for israel.



musin



long live the kktc

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 14:56

Agree to a degree in what you say Musin,



However you have missed the demonstrations in Israel in support of the military actions



Also how convenient that the Israelis have the film that shows the firing from the Helicopters, yet the Israelis have film from the Helicopters showing their men being attacked and ..........................there were no shots fired then!

Another attempt will be met the same way and its almost mid term elections in USA, they will back Israel!!



Turkey will never cosy up to Iran as long as Iran keeps supplying the PPK



Apart from all that

Long live the KKTC

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 15:29

egypt has temporarily opened blockaded border with gaza to allow aid.



turkish pm has just returned to turkey and is livid ,he has warned israel not to test turkey .





musin



long live the kktc

Tasgirl


Joined: 31/12/2008
Posts: 100

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 17:26

Calm down Angus, 'protesting too much' it's making you mix your words up, or was that a freudian slip ? those Israelites killers are trained to select pregnant young women to shoot ( two for one bullet) when they saw that men on were on board, and able to hit back, will have made them panic, creating a scene for the T.V. viewers around the world which shows the Jews clearly for what they are

chris75


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 21

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 17:57

Don't you think that the Video from Israil can be edited? I have seen that video also killing people with paintballs.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 18:15

Like I say,



Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.



There was NO CRITICISM of Israel when it rescued its own people from Entebbe or when they routed 3 Arab Countries in the 6 Day War.

! am not a supporter of the Israeli Warmachine as when I was with CNN covering the 2006 attacks in Southern Lebanon I did see the fallout from their atrocious behaviour- hence why I do not condone what they did.



However they have a right to defend themselves and if this Aid Convoy has nothing to hide why the violence?????????????????

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 18:39

Have a look at the BBC News website and the story about how many Brits are being held!



Then scroll down and see what a Greek CYpriot makes of it!



Its worth a laugh!

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 18:40

My aplogies on the above- its Sky News website!

PeeCee


Joined: 16/03/2009
Posts: 133

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 19:06

I'm certainly not laughing. These ships were in international waters. Those on board had every right to defend themselves from an act that can only be described as piracy. The international community needs to bring Israel to heel and fast. This nation seems to think that it is an law unto itself - and let's not forget that it has weapons of mass destruction at its disposal - which, of course, it tries to deny. However, it has recently been exposed that Israel engaged in negotiations with South African government in 1975 to sell it nuclear missiles - to enable it to protect its apartheid ridden regime. Let's not forget too that in January of this year they stole the identities of innocent people - some of whom where UK citizens to commit murder in their name.

chris75


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 21

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 19:12

PeeCee, i agree with you



Where we had to laugh? What it has to do with Greek Cypriots?

PeeCee


Joined: 16/03/2009
Posts: 133

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 19:25

Fail to understand the GC bit - but I do know that one of the boats was captained by a Greek who had severe neck injury from and attack by one of the Israeli combat troops.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 19:48

The Turks are very angry. They wish to be seen as the Superpower of the Middle East.



What then would happen if they amassed their tanks on the border with Syria? Given the antagonism between Syria and Israel



if jointly they moved their tanks to the Syrian border with Israel? Arab/Jew Moslem/Christian. We have never been forgiven for



the Crusades!



Why did Obama make his first overseas visit to Turkey? Be afraid, be very very afraid.!



wyn

swannee7


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 20:02

General consensus from TV reporting is that the 'aid flotilla' was a deliberate act of provocation against the Israeli blockade. They wanted confrontation and ensured they had coverage of events as they unfolded.



Since world governments have denounced the attack, Israel has allowed some smaller boats from the flotilla to take their cargo of 'aid' through to Gaza. One can only feel real sympathy for the ordinary people of Gaza who are caught between a rock and a hard place (Hamas & Israel). But let's not forget that Hamas has - and always will - play a vicious political game in which Gaza citizens are mere pawns. The numerous international 'activists' on board that vessel were blinded by that fact and only concerned with getting aid and world attention on Gaza. Highly commendable, but Mid-East politics is a very, very dirty game...... You can bet your life that anarchic elements within the region are behind all of this (inc. Iran).

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 21:34

events are now a lot more dangerous ,the turkish pm has just announced there will be more ships and they will be accompanied by turkish warships.





the stakes just went up.





musin



long live the kktc

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 21:42

PeeCee



The subject of their murder (I prefer assassination) was a high ranking official from Hamas. This was a man who's organisation is currently accusing the Israeli's of inhuman acts but thinks nothing of strapping a bomb to the chest of a woman or child and sending them into a cafe in the middle of Jerusalem where they detonate the device, killing indiscriminately. His death is no great loss to civilization.



Re the nuclear weapons - I would rather they were in the hands of Israel than in those of Syria, Iran etc.



Regards



Paul

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 21:47

Musin M, any chance of the source of the Turkish navy escorting the flotilla to Gaza. With US on Israel's side that might be an explosive confrontation

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 21:48

Egypt opens all borders to the West Bank!



Richard

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 21:52

Israel will see Egypt's Rafah border opening as a provocative act and, as someone said on this thread, we know what they do when provoked! Or will they attack the Turkish Navy first?

dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 22:09

Channel 4 news are confirming that Turkish warships will be escorting the next aid convoy to Gaza.



An Israeli Government spokesman on the news was completely gobsmacked when he was confronted with this fact.



It is clear to me from the coverage that the israeli commandos make a complete b*ll*cks of the operation by landing on the deck one at a time and allowing themselves to be overwhelmed.



It seems people died to protect the dignity of the Isaeli commandos.



Sad!



DD

BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 22:20

If Turkish warships do escort another flotilla this would be a major escalation.



Turkey is a NATO member and an attack on ONE is an attack on All



I do not believe Uncle Sam would risk the existance of the NATO alliance to support Israel on this.



Israel would have to be finally brought into line by the US

Calvinhobbes


Joined: 25/04/2010
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 22:27

Once again the Western media have swallowed the 'innocent' aid mission. Wheelchairs, food...and a few rockets and thugs whom you wouldn't see down at the local charity shop. I don't expect reason to prevail over the anti - Israel hysteria, and truth will be brushed aside.



I realise that my comments will be totally unacceptable to many, but seriously, if anyone thought that 'aid' effort was anything more than a political attack on Israel then they don't have much of a grasp of the Middle East business.

PeeCee


Joined: 16/03/2009
Posts: 133

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 22:35

Paul.

That's the events through your lens.Another interpretation could be that the Hamas leader was part of an elected government by the people of a country called Palestine-once had far more land and economic stability than it does now.If he did instigate terrorist attacks as you suggest the force of Mossad was sufficient in Dubai to arrest and spirit him back to Israel to face those charges.Their action was was murder-pure and simple and they cowardly stole the identities of ordinary folk like you and me to do this. And wake up man do you really believe that Israel is more stable than Iran? Is the world a safer place because they have nuclear missiles?If they have them why not Iran, Iraq or Syria.Given Israel's history on this front I'm sure that given the right circumstances they would sell as they tried to do with South Africa.Israel is hugely dependent on Europe for trade.The trade agreements it has with Europe include that they should obey international laws and human rights.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 22:37

Calvinhobbes you're not wrong, unfortunately Israel handled it very badly indeed and for a country with nuclear arms that is not reassuring

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 22:39

It beggars belief that a Military State can board a vessel outside of it's own territorial waters, kill not one or two resistors with it's special forces but ten or more and then imprison or intern the rest at their will, keeping them captive against their will.



Who do this little bunch of bullies think they are??



Let them now try their tactics with General Isik Kosaner and see where it gets them...

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 22:53

just in case anyone doesn't know it, Israel (11th) is thought to match Turkey (10th) in military strength according to http://www.globalfirepower.com and Iran is not such a weak country (18th)

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 22:57

Turkish warship news not on Channel 4 news website

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 23:08

Msg 109

As a new member (4 posts), you work for the Government, hide your email address, and then spout out shite! So come clean, is it MI5, MI6, DGSE, or (most likely) Mossad that you work for? When you get bored join me at NZSIS!



Richard

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 23:15

PeeCee



For God's sake, what are you talking about! Mahmoud al-Mabhouh 'was part of an elected government '?! At least, make a little search before posting such nonsense.

'spirit him back to Israel'? Simples, and why your Afghan forces don't bring all Taliban instead of killing them (and some 10 civilians for each fighter)

'stole the identities'. Sure, and MI6 always uses genuine passports.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
01/06/2010 23:16

RedSnapper, msg 102,

I agree - when you consider the actions of a regime such as Russia, which is generally regarded as Totalitarian, in relation to the Pirates which it released unharmed, the behaviour in this instance seems somewhat out of line with International Law...

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 00:13

Israilis need to be put straight on this one, bang out of order and as always the rest of the modern world including the UK will sit back & watch, we all know why they choose to sit back...



This has been going on for half a century the Israilis should'nt even be there its always helpful to look back into the history of these issues in order to understand why inccidents like this occur & re-occur...



According to the latest news Turkey is about to put her foot down big time on this one and I sincerely hope they do!

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 07:41

Pee Cee



Mossad didn't 'cowardly' steal the passports of innocents. Why do you think it was so easy to trace the forging of the passports back to Israel ? Mossad are one of the most formidable secret service agencies in the world and don't make the type of mistakes that saw this operation tracked back to them. They wanted to send a message to Hamas (and maybe the wider world) that if you mess with us, we will follow you to the ends of the earth and take our retribution. I have absolutely no problem with the extermination of terrorists, so in this case support them wholeheartedly !!



Just my opinion of course



Paul

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 07:43

Politics Politics Politics



This whole drama is one political subterfuge.



Why do you blinkered visioned with eyes only for Turkey (after all you live in TRNC) not see the bigger picture as to why Turkey is talking this whole thing up.

If Turkey was to accompany the other aid ships to Israeli waters with Warships then they will be in breach of International Regulations. Also why is everybody jumping on the bandwagon and saluting Turkey. The Prime Minister is in a spot as what happened at weekend(oh dear has everyone forgotten, let me remind you. Turkey is that well thought of in the world that in Argentina he cancelled his trip due to the fact the Argentines were NOT going to celebrate Ataturks birthday.

Also be real if Turkey was that wonderful would they not be granted EU status before now- also did Turkey NOT recently lead an incursion to IRAQ- remember people.

Turkey has a lot of stones to throw at glass windows!!

I reiterate I do not condone the Israeli recent actions!

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 10:16

Ang



You make a very good point about Turkeys ongoing guerilla war with the PKK. Their war with the PKK has many similarities with that between Israel and Hamas. The PKK is a recognised terrorist organisation that has conducted a number of high profile acts of terrorism in Istanbul and eastern Turkey. The Turkish army has responded by raising to the ground thousands of Kurdish villages and killing in excess of 40000 Kurds. They have also regularly pursued the PKK into Iraq. Alleged human rights abuses against the Kurds is one of the major stumbling blocks to Turkey's accession to the EU.



A sledgehammer to crack a nut ??



Are Turkey wrong to pursue this type of military action ?? If not, then why is Israel being villified for it's current stance and actions against Hamas ?



I leave it to the floor to decide.



Paul

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 10:36

Personally I am with Turkey.



Terrorism cannot be seen to win !!



Paul

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 10:50

fiendishpaul, "Terrorism cannot be seen to win !! "

Unless it is our "terrorism," e.g. when Nazi Germany occupied French territory and the French Freedom Fighters were designated terrorists by the Nazis.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 11:02

Touche



One could argue that the French were fighting a uniformed occupying force who had already steamrollered across half of Europe. But I take your point.



Your thoughts on Turkeys war with the PKK ??



Paul

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 11:04

Lets vote Hamas as humanitarians of the year. Their aim of genocide against the Israelis must put them in with a chance. Don't for get that the world believes the GC version of events here in Cyprus, so don't be to quick to judge.



Patientia est a donum superum

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 14:50

I think I wrote somewhere in this thread that, according to international law, Israel are within their right to reinforce a blockade in its own defence. The US supports the blockade, not sure who else, although most countries are asking for it to be lifted. However, the extreme way in which the blockade is being sustained is what is causing problems.



Turkey and the PKK, fiendishpaul, when I have time I'll read up about it. It's probably the British's fault associated with the crumbling of the Ottoman Empire after WW1, but I know nothing.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 15:16

Paul,



The war with the Kurds has been going on for decades and would hasten to add that it is not supported surprisingly enough strongly by the Kurds in Iraq.

All this drama about the 'attack by Israel' has really got a lot of people excited and jumping to some outlandish solutions.

Turkey is hated by Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, why because of what it did to the Armenians and for a long time was an occupation force. Granted they hate the Israelis more though!

Malsancak you are probably correct that Britain had something to do with it as our Foreign Policy at that time was to get out- even TE Lawrance was against this as he could see troubles ahead. Then after WW2 we do the same in Palestine and then Cyprus and its a touchy area of the world that has NEVER known peace for at least 1 generation

Hamas has won a great PR Coup here, but by this time next month the world will be back to condeming them as there will be more violence to come thanks to these 'activists'

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 15:19

Israel us facing another potentially explosive confrontation as pro-Palestinian activists sent two more boats to challenge it's blockade of the Gaza strip.



Interestingly, Turkey was reported to be considering sending a naval escort for the boats.

Erdogan has called for Israel to be punished and that "no one should try to test Turkey's patience"



I think there are some dark days ahead - the world is watching!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 15:22

that escort seems to have vanished from the news, perhaps Erdogan has had a phone call from Obama and has been persuaded to back down?

swannee7


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 394

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 15:26

Captured activists being deported today by Israel so, no doubt once back on their home turf, more 'colourful stories' of the attack will emerge. Pictures in today's papers of the weapons (used by activists) found on board the ship attacked by commandos are pretty nasty and obviously intended for use. Things are never as straightforward as they appear at first and I still maintain there's a lot of Mid-East political skullduggery going on.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 15:35

Although I have Jewish family ties, I have for some time felt that the gentle, persecuted Jew of the 30s and 40s has been replaced to a large degree by Israeli bullies. Certainly you don't now mess with them unless you want a bloody nose.



This Gaza action is an undeniable cock-up on their part, without doubt, but do we now have all the relevant facts? This is a report published in today's 'Australian'....



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/grotesque-theatre-succeeded-brilliantly/story-e6frg6so-1225874215412



Is it balanced? Who knows.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 16:23

Rottolover,



Finally, one article that makes sense. It is far more complicated than the usual anti Israeli rant.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 16:30

Rottolover,



Spot on, I recently read the book about the 6Day War in 1967 by Jeremy Bowen and it was a totally unbiased read and so so so iteresting.

The Jews who were in Palestine pre 1945 treated the Holocaust Victims with contempt for not standing up to the Nazis

The Jew dos want his 'pound of flesh' as in Merchant Of Venice and an Eye for an Eye



Liked the comment about - where is the Turkish Escort for this second Aid Ships true Erdogan has said his piece and been advised enough is enough!

Also seeing the Israeli camera footage certainly shows that the so called activists were there to cause trouble. What on earth makes anyone want to go to Gaza as once in its difficult to get out and there is more in Maras than in Gaza- believe me!!

But publicity as again rightly pointed out we are going to hear some amazing stories and deeds from the activists so bring on the kleenex and oscars!!

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/06/2010 19:34

Rottolover



Good spot !!



Excellent article which sums up the event very succinctly.



Paul