Thatcher's State Funeral

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 00:27

Just got back from TRNC & saw this headline on tabloid news

so I asked my son today if she had died. No, apparently, she is in good nick

but what a headline (even for a tabloid) to declare funeral arrangements when the lady is alive & kicking. He said she would probably enjoy the thought of it!

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 00:38

Why don't we just burn her now, stick the ashes in an urn and put it in the Dinosaur section of the British Museum.



Save loads of money, she'd see the sense in that.



Lem

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 00:47

Yes, she always the economist, like when she stopped the kids free milk

in schools, even though the Brit. Med. Council advised against it due to poverty of many families at the time. It used to be a wee, wee bottle, I mind it well!

smoggyjim


Joined: 21/07/2007
Posts: 214

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 05:03

Along with Maggie why dont we burn the mess we have in governement now

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 09:56

Aaah......The Iron Lady.

For me, the greatest Woman Prime Minister this country as ever had. ;)

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 09:57

Sorry, should have read , has ever had. ;)

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 10:40

She put the great back into Britan, a true statesperson.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 10:52

Agree Nige.



If you have not read her autobiog. you should. Explains why she became the great PM she was, until the last year.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 11:27

Fine woman Mrs T. Great Prime Minister.



She did it for me when she said they would reduce taxes (as soon as the Country could afford it). She said we could spend our own money, better than Government could!



None of this tax and spend, and PFI nonesense.



But as so often in life, burdened by that little "turd" Mark. A disgrace to his parents and

Country. She sullied her own reputation to set him up, and now the'chickens are coming home to roost.



She should have a state funeral nonetheless, but can we let her die first?



wyn

ttoli


Joined: 24/03/2007
Posts: 1172

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 11:49

Or bring Her over here and sort the Unions out and shed excess staff.

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 12:21

Why don,t we have it now anyway, let the woman enjoy a bit of a do in her daft old age.

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 12:24

she should have a state funeral but not yet. She was a great Prime Minister ready to take on all the EU and the Unions. Indeed she rebuilt Great Britain and Blair and Brown survived on her legacy now they have spent all the reserves they need to fleece us in every way. Tax Road Tax Vat Tax Tax diminishing pension funds with extra taxation....and also Tax

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 12:25

I'm afraid i haven't got much time for Margaret thatcher , sure she dragged business into the 21st century but she created a generation of (get rich quick people and don't give a toss about your fellow man ) , which we are still feeling the repercussions today,she was good for London and the South but she left whole areas of the country in a deep recession and decline especially Merseyside . I think large areas of Britain won't shed a tear for Maggie when she paasses away

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 13:17

I notice a distinct line here with reference to Thatcher between the South & North of the country, which doesn't surprise me. Here in Scotland, she was not

popular for many reasons, yet the day she was elected my driving instructor remarked to me as I stepped into car with royal blue trouser suit "You must be

very proud this morning as you're wearing the right colour!"

"An accident," I told him, & changed the subject. But like her or loathe her, one cannot take away her place as first woman p.m. and she squashed forever the idea that women would not be able to rule strongly.

She never acknowledged in her autobiography the stroke of luck she had with

North Sea Oil which enabled her to boost the economy at the time.

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 13:42

Must say that i agree with gary65 [message13]. I live in london but was sickened by the way she created such a big divide between the haves and have nots. Surely the mark of any decent country is how they look after the poor and sick. It would not bother me if her funeral was next week.

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 13:42

Also if you remember how she was doing in the opinion polls coming up to her second term in office she was going to lose , but low and behold along came the Falklands war which to my believe she manipulated , she and Whitehall could have averted that war but they didn't , the rest is history

eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:00

hear, hear, very true.....and the sun readers loved her for it.

jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:01

Got to agree with phylray Thatcher was not welcome in Scotland, she went down like a lead balloon.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:13

eager and Gary65, Respect to both of you.



She started the war over a lie of it costing £1 million a year to keep a lighthouse ship (spy boat) off South Georgia, which could not be justified for the cost!!! We had to use the QE2 as part of the flotilla!! Soldiers and Sailors life’s lost for nothing. Belgrano sunk to make sure the Argies would fight us.





School meals went the same way, with burgers, cokes and chocolate & Crisps being the order off the day.



Right to buy your own property..........rise to 16% mortgage rate.



£40 Billion written off the monetary fund and no one to carry the can.



The fairest council tax of all time (POLL TAX) and riots of protest.



Westland affair.



Through arrogance let the peoples of N.I. (both sides) suffer for more years than was necessary.



I could go on.........



She will be missed by only the blue rinse brigade and those fortunate to have made money from the Yuppie and Sloane Ranger era!



Look forward to her funeral as the working classes may get a day off to mourn her!!!!!!!!



And all this from humble beginnings as a shop keepers daughter. Her and dopey Denis will be sorely missed. All part of history I suppose.



P.s .Not affiliated to any political party

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:13

And what about the miners , Thatcher was out to destroy them from day one because it was there union that caused the winter of discontent , back in the 70's she completely destroyed whole communities and put 60'000 men on the dole that's what the great Maggie done for them

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:15

nice one Tiggy couldn't have put it better myself

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:26

I have never heard such a figurehead trigger such polarised and divided thoughts, probably because she did indeed divide a nation across many lines.



IMO her reign provided both good and bad outcomes.

chick


Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:40

Whenever anything to do with politics come up we always get the same old

cliche NORTH AND SOUTH

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:49

Nothing to do with Nth v Sth. I have lived in London all my life and many of the people down here have no time for her.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:50

Well Mrs T is out of politics now!



Why dont we have a thread as a critique of New Labour her successors, and what they have done for Great Britain, perhaps to the dying strains of Land of Hope and Glory, Rule Brittania

and Jerusalem. Rose tinted glasses anyone?



At least Tories were conservative, when she was at the helm and Britain was Great!



wynyardman

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:52

I wonder, if Thatcher hadn't been around, would John Sullivan have found the inspiration behind the creation of the yuppee 'Delboy'. I am not sure I would have made it through life without 'only fools and horses - the best sitcom charachter ever created - mange tout

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:52

Good on you wyn,



you start up a thread for new labour and we will keep this one for Maggie.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:52

god bless Thatcher for delboy

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:53

Gary65,



What happenned to the charcoal burners of Sussex?



wyn

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:55

Ican't say what i really think of Maggie the children and Wynn might get upset

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:56

so Wyn you've lost me there it was before my time

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:56

Hi Tiggy,



Not a lot to say really. At least Maggie waved a big stick, not a pink marshmallow one like

this lot!



wyn

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 14:58

Ah i must admit i think Brown's days are numbered . The thing is though Wyn who would you vote for they all look the same to me

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:10

gary65,



Quite!



wynyardman

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:13

Tiggy,



You lost me on that one!



Any thoughts Watty?

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:14

High wyn,



Politics, religion and footy...a curse!



Respect to one and all on the board.



Tiggy.

chick


Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:28

Tiggy.

I too was born and bred in London and Maggie Put members of family out of work when she busted the print unions with the help of Murdoch who now supports Labour, But that does not say she was not a great politician.



Gary65

Thatcher did'nt destroy the miners it was Scargill who sold them down the river while feathering his own nest.

And I am not a Sloanie or the Blue Rinse Brigade And I would sooner have the poll tax than the Council Tax that I now pay

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:32

Scargill tried to destroy the uk with ilicit funds from the soviet union but maggie stood firm while all arround her dithered.



Gone are the days of principle its popularity and polls now

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:33

Tiggy,



............High Wyn? .................. about 5' 10" mate............bit early to be drinking!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:36

Hi Littlenige,



Scargill the Hornet, I remember him well!



wyn



PS I am sure I saw her buzzing around The Ship....................

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:39

Tiggy - you said - Nothing to do with Nth v Sth. I have lived in London all my life and many of the people down here have no time for her.





I'd go further than that.....most people in the UK don't give a damn about ANY Politicians!

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:42

what gave it away the fried egs or double aa ??

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 15:56

Hi bill,

I agree with you.



high again wyn, you drink when ever you like mate, It never seems to early/late for you.



Looking forward to that day off.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 16:21

I do agree there were many Southerners who did not support her, especially in trad. w.c. areas, but as the heartlands of heavy industry (or what's left) were in the north they seemed to be in majority. Certainly split the country.

Unions were a dirty word to her. I wonder if she ever thought about what it was like for working people before them. (I am not political any more, coming from a Tory father & Labour mother, they fought over everything but politics &

religion) I actually stood as a Lib/Dem in my area years ago as a 'paper candidate'

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 16:24

And the current corrupt mob in power have killed family life haven't they. Of course they will not acknowledge that.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 17:22

Hands up all those that voted for New Labour?



wyn

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 18:27

Phylray....... msg 3.?

I think history tells me Harold Wilson started the demise of school milk, he stopped it in secondary school in 1968

ilovemydogs



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 19:39

from a family of miners on my side and my husbands i abtain from getting into this.

politics, religion best kept away from.

rather go back to the fishy thread

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 19:46

Hi all,



A majority by far voted for New Labour, yet not one will now put their hands up.!



I think i've made my point!



Wyn (UK taxpayer)

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 20:00

Turtle

Did she not stop it in primary schools though? Guess secondary might not

need it so much & were wasting it if I remember.

ilovemydogs



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 20:29

i voted labour, lot of good it did.

my dad is ashamed of my brother for voting lib dem.

staunch labour around here, but it is very sad to see that b.n.p are getting seats. god help us if they keep recruiting. the young around here are very diheartened by the number of polish, cosovans and the like taking their jobs. i know all the arguments that they are supposed to be contributing to the economy. but they work all week packed into a house around the corner then hop on a cheap flight 5 mins away . take their money home and back for monday. and so the circle goes.

knife attacks in this village total 4 in a week . my own son was chased out of the place he was working in by a cosovan with a knife because he threw a exploding golf ball at him. an english boy would have had a good laugh and wiped the powder off. needless to say my son would not go back to work. i phoned his manager and she said she would investigate but it wouldn't do any good. she was threatened in the same way and the offender was escorted from the building. the excuse being that's how they are. if the boot had been on the other foot my son would be locked up.

thet's me not getting involved in politics

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 20:51

ilovemydogs,



An honest woman! Now part of the silent majority. Welcome aboard.



wyn.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 20:51

ilmd



Not surprised the Kosovan acted like that. He has probably been used to ducking Serbian shells. It's absolutely crazy that the government dumps people from war torn countries in relatively rural parts of England and expects things to run smoothly.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 20:53

ilovecyprus,



A good analysis. No political point? Another member of the silent majority! Welcome aboard!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:02

Hi all,



Dose anyone remember MPs fiddling thousands of pounds per year on their expenses, when Maggie was Prime Minister? Did we have spin? Honesty, good housekeeping, genuine financial prudence. Good management.? They would not have dared. That is what I call good management. You cannot be a good manager, and be liked!



Just my view,



wyn

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:06

I voted Labour too, sorry, but we all make mistakes at some time.

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:07

indeed wyn I am here to manage not to be popular was my moto.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:09

phylray,

You can,t have it both ways, when kids join secondary school they are about 10 or 11 and still growing and developing what your saying then is slag maggie off but not Harold, both lots of kids apparantly need this milk not just the ones who maggie stopped.



PS I hated the stuff glad to see the back of this smelly, often sour liquid

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:18

turtle,



Maggie CUT taxes, as soon as the country could afford it. The parents could have used that money to feed their children properly, if they so desired, or spend it on fags and drink. We know what happenned. She preached and practised financiial prudence, and passed the benefits to the parents to spend it on what was important. She preached a doctrine of self reliance.



Now what have we got? Cradle to the grave, chaos! Law and order?



wyn

ilovemydogs



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:19

wyn. do you remember donnygate. not sure you will have heard about from your part. it made the nationals though. corrupt to the core our council were, back handers by the thousands. it has taken years and millions of tax payers money to get to the truth. and a few jail centenses. i still don't trust them.

our mayor who lots voted for (not me by the way) is now busy trying to sell off evey asset going including schools. now they want rid. he was only voted in to make the town look good and he is power mad.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:21

Nice one Nige,



Spoken like a true Hornet swatter. A true professional.



wynyardman

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:28

Ilovemydogs,



I remember it well, as do I remember the millions skimmed off the Government compensation scheme, by your local legal heroes, for the miners. True labour principles, and solid Labour territory.



But you did give us our Kev!. At least you have that going for you!



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:29

Neither Labour nor the Conservatives have the solution. The whole political system is ruptured. It either attracts the wrong type of people or it's structured in such a way to make the good intented and bright both corruptible and stupid.



We need to completely rethink the whole political makeup in the UK, if we are going to embrace the 21st century. Thatcher, Wilson, Brown etc all belong in the museum. New thinking is needed.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:33

ilc totally agree with your comments........ but dont hold your breath mate

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:43

Ah well Turtle, I always drank mine as was I was told!

I was underweight & asthmatic but not because of poverty - just

we were not allowed to waste food, & it was good for us.



llovecyprus

Yes, I am not sure that any of the parties really have a great strategy for

this century. When people need strong leadership it is because they lack

confidence themselves, or are on a low level, making them vulnerable.

We have to plan for the future, yet also learn from the past, & not forget out

mistakes.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 21:50

Definately not holding my breath Turtle.

Too many people are getting rich and fat and it's not in their interest to change the system. They are prepared to take us all down the swanny rather than hand over power to more enlightened thinkers.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 22:33

Not that it's going to happen, but at the same time there should be a total shake up of the media system. They stir up too much negative press. The goal for some of the tabloids is to sell papers not report the facts

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 22:47

well signing off now..................off to Morocco tomorrow for 2 weeks R&R.

Look forward to reading the posts on my return

Behave yourselves.



Turtle

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 22:49

have a great time turtle, you lucky b.....d

ilovemydogs



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 23:01

wyn. thats my husbands claim to fame. he played football with kev. he was born in our villiage. he says it's a shit hole. i'm inclined to agree now

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 23:16

ilovedogs,



Kev used to live just over from us until he moved to Scotland. His mother Doris and Mother in Law Molly lived each side of my Mother in Law.

I was bought up in a council house so we knew what it was like to be short of money.

I have always believed in enterprise and hard work, and I made my own way in life we never had handouts and we got only what we worked for. Mrs T was my heroine and she did what had to be done. She let herself down with her son but she was British through and through.Her

demise from power heralded the demise of The UK.



Just my view,



wynyardman

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 23:27

New labour will be on the wau out and the Conservatives on the way back in!

soon all our wrongs will be righted !



God help us all, as they are as bad as each other.



hurry up and finish our villa.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 23:49

Margeret Thatcher was without doubt one of the great British Prime Ministers and will I'm sure be found to have been by history in due course. I once saw her at close quarters and saw how she dealt with ordinary worker minions (with courtesy and charm) as opposed to those who were senior civil service or ministers who were supposed to know what they were doing (with no nonsense). Her husband Dennis was a real gentleman. So for those that worked for her, they worshipped her. God help those who were incompetant. Can you imagine how she would have dealt with the current crises? Not like Gordon Brown, that's for sure.

I'm off to sing 'Land of Hope and Glory' whilst standing up and saluting.......

Martin

ilovemydogs



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
16/07/2008 10:14

wyn. Respect.... small world eh?



tiggy. i agree. god help us all.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
16/07/2008 10:25

Tiggy, who is building your villa - Labour or Conservatives??? ;)

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
16/07/2008 11:54

Mostly Labourers,



Which party in Cyprus they support I do not know !

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
16/07/2008 21:59

Tiggy

That is an interesting question to which I would like the answer!



When I started this thread I was just surprised, yea, even mortified,

that a newspaper could publish as headlines an ex-prime minister's

funeral arrangements when the woman is still very much alive!

I have seen a deterioration in the media in latter years, a lack of feeling,

and so much rubbish.



Wyn Yes, I mostly voted Labour, sometimes Lib/dem & only once Con.

The country needs to change its leadership every once in a while - and that

is a sign of healthy democracy. Don't leave any party in charge too long!

They invariably get corrupted, or at least become tired.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 00:30

phylray,



I am drawn to respond.



I have voted Conservative all my life, although I am from working class stock. I have made my own way in life without handouts. What I have I have earned by my own volition, and paid my taxes on. I am grateful that I have had the health to do so, and am happy for my taxes to fund the less fortunate.



I am one of the silent majority.



I strongly resent my taxes going to idle scroungers, people who have not contributed their fair share to the general good, and especially single mothers, of dubious morality.



There are few polititicians I would give my vote to, certainly not The Motley Bunch who currently occupy Government of this Country. I see little of value in the bunch of corrupt individuals that call themselves HM opposition.



I have seen what was GREAT BRITTAIN given away over the years of my lifetime, to varying vested interests, non of whom could ever have built such wonderful institutions, as The National Health Service.



I and my successors have been robbed of our rightful inheritance, by a bunch of workshy

robbibng, expense fiddling, incapable people of dubious morality, and to be honest with you,

I am incensed. Am I getting old? or just as my wife says, a grumpy old man?



wynyardman

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 08:59

Wyn you will never be silent

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 09:01

gary65.



No!



wyn

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 09:07

Iagree to some of the comments you make Wynn about working hard and starting at the bottom , i to have never been on the dole and have worked hard all my live , but one thing that has always puzzled me is why working class men and women vote conservative afterall they only look after the middle and upper classes and don't give a toss about the working men and women of Britain , history has shown that so many times

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 09:17

gary65,



You mean this Labour Government is for the working class? Mr Blair?..........multi

millionaire from working class stock?



Gary...as the wording goes on The Red Flag......................



"the working class can kiss my ----, I've got the foremans job at larst!.



The time has long gone, when labour were for the hard pressed working man.



wyn

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 09:54

o h i totally agree but we where talking about Maggie she definitely wasn't for the working class .

You slagg off Tony Blair but under his leadership you had economic growth and stability , which we have all benefited from ,afterall we've all got lovely properties here in sunny Cyprus , you would,t be able to buy a property abroad when Maggie was in charge you'd be to busy paying your poll tax

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 10:28

ah were have all the Thatcher lovers gone

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 10:40

Gaz mate,



Maggie cut taxes(as soon as they got the economy in order) Left us ALL to spend it on what we wanted.

She encouraged enterprise and self reliance. Ideals that I value.

I don't slag off The Sedgefield Gargoyle. He looked after TB and Mrs TB. Not the working man



Gordon Our Supreme Leader has had a 12 year TAX and SPEND orgy. We now have so much debt (and PFI debt off balance sheet) that we have no room to manoever.



Who are the beneficiaries, LARGE FAMILIES, single mothers and social security scroungers.



Who has paid? The hardworking,tax paying, silent majority, that are now leaving these shores in droves, to try to live their lives, in peace with their families.



Who are going to be the beneficiaries of this once great country, the finest Health Service in the world, The finest Legal system in the world.



NOT the hardworking, taxpaying. working classes that Labour purported to represent.

They Gaz, have been sold down the river by This Motley Bunch!



Just my views,



wyn

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 11:19

Not bad wyn,



21 out of 85 posts so far from you on this subject! Post 78 shows you are a caring person, my partner calls me "Victor" ...after you know who.



We can all remember what each party did or did not do in the past and to the present day. How many more cash fiddlers are in the parties hiding assets and claiming for works carried out etc.



Maggie is well in the past and even in her day we had scroungers and parasites claiming from the system, taking my taxes as well.

I voted her in, and not long after realised what the working man was going to get from her.



I remember watching a Young Conservative student called "William Hague" at the party conference platform spouting off his upper class views to an audience of elderly rich, thinking to myself. If this is what maybe running the country in the near future, then god help us all.



I have not voted since.



No more from me now on this subject as I have typed enough.



my views as well.

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 12:39

Here Here Tiggy

Well said , it's all well and good cutting taxes but the national health service and education did suffer , i'm afraid the only people who vote conservative have a selfish view on how things should be run , okay under this current government they aren't doing a very good job , but if the tories got in ,it would be back to the same old ways cutting taxes to satisfy the few and all your services would suffer and plenty of corruption and scandal from within the tory party

gary65


Joined: 15/05/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 12:40

Ilike Tiggy am bored of this topic now and won't be adding anymore comments

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 12:54

I have never voted conservative in my life



The only thing I would say is that under the present system of economics, you need to encourage a healthy entrepeneurial mindset. Britain, Canada and the US has had the most small buisness start up's in the world. Brown is virtually killing this mindset through taxation and pc legislation.



The public sector has got too fat. Without a healthy and vibrant private sector you can't have a healthy publuc sector.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 13:59

The fact that Maggie can still provoke such discussion is fascinating!



During the Tory years, what I saw was a flood of 'working classes' clamouring to buy their council houses at big discounts and become Capitalists, Mondeo Man, call them what you like. Also ex-miners happy to use their compensation to buy pubs, businesses, properties etc.



When I was in my teens I went to the lying in state of Winston Churchill, a very moving experience and one that made me feel proud of my British heritage.



If Maggie has a state funeral I will go to that if I can.



How many would want to go to a state funeral of any Labour leader since WW2??



Leaders who redefine a state are always unpopular to a section of their society.





I would ask any Turks or Turkish Cypriots who their venerated leaders are. Attaturk springs to mind.



Who do you consider to be the leaders who have shaped your country in the last century?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
17/07/2008 14:33

Enjoyed your post Robnjo. Some very good points.



It's not just about Leadership, but the circumstances and context meeting Leadership. Lets face it Churchill would have just been another parliamentary figure without the 2nd world war. Not all Leaders are presented with the circumstances and context to make such a substantial difference, but Churchill and Thatcher took their opportunities well.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 00:23

Ok Guys,



Who would you vote for, and what is the way forward for the UK?



wyn

cruggs


Joined: 06/04/2008
Posts: 498

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 10:13

hi wyn,re your posting no 49.I voted for new labour, in 1997 as i and many more people did as the results confirmed.I was then under the illusion that a

labour goverment would be better than a conservative, one for the working

classe,s how wrong could i have been.if we could have looked into a crystal

ball,how many would now have voted for new labour then, but we had,had enough of tory sleaze and im all right jack syndrome.i consider my vote in 1997

too be the worst vote i have ever cast,and would never vote for new or old

labour again even if they paid me.they could not even organize a p>>s, up

in the ship inn,they would tax you to go in and tax you too get out.

what a bunch of morons.

roll on the next general election

have a good day all.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 10:34

The way forward - what a question! Is there an answer?



My views are these.



An immediate stop on Immigration.

.5% decrease in the BBR

Identity Cards for everyone

Introduce National Service from age 17

More Hospitals to be built

Increase in the State Pension

Free Travel for everyone over 65.

No more free travel for school children

A complete review of the Legal System

Introduce a new tax rate of 60% for anyone earning over £100k pa





Hows that for starters?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 12:56

Well done Bill for going first



*Firstly, all candidate prime ministers should be heavily vetted. They need to show more than standard intellect. They should be comfortable with understanding complexity and systems theory. They should have a good grounding in economics, psychology (particularly social psychology) and philosophy. They should also be emotionally intelligent. It's a tall order but these people do exist.



* National service should be introduced at 17 to include a focus on community service, learning hands on practical skills i.e living off the land, basic plumbing skills etc, martial arts, learning self responsability, self healing etc



*National health service should be wound down. Emphasis should be on self healing and taking personal responsability for ones health. Introduce more energy healing systems such Acupuncture



*A Swiss voting system should be adopted. On important matters impacting the community. People should be allowed to vote not just the politicians



*Training and incentives to create more entrepeneurs



*Accept that immigration is the way of the world - the jumbo jet changed. this. Have a points system for imigration. Teach people to become more tolerant but at the same time emphasise and protect the British culture



*Review the human rights law system



*Education for all with a focus on developing right brain aspects not just the left brain. Introduce accelerated learning and quantum aspects to learning. Teach kids on how to learn not just getting them to swallow and download facts. Teaching for living in the real world. Getting kids to learn conflict resolving skills



*Emphasis on fun and renewal at work. It's more productive



*Give people time off fom work to help in the community and environmental based projects



*Tax the rich to create a Scandanavian equality based system of living (Probbaly hard to achieve without a shift of mindset)



*Gentle nudging of people to save more for pension



*Focus peoples mindset on sustainable living. Perhaps people have to get used to living off less. At the same time spend lots of money on researching how to tap in to zero point energy to create free energy.



ant the list goes on

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 13:03

Mark, How does the Swiss voting system work? Is it only effctive for community matters?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 13:13

Yes, Bill I think they are mostly matters of the community, for example Swiss people were asked as to whether they would allow the building of mosques in Switzerland. My aunty told me that the Swiss people voted no. Their vote was heavily influrenced by 7/7 in the UK. Switzerland does have a large number of immigrants, because like the UK they have signed up to the human rights act.



I like the idea of people voting on significant matters, probably because I have been heavily influenced by the book 'the wisdom of the crowds' by James Surowiecki.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 13:54

Did the Mosque get built?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 13:57

To my knowledge 'no'. From what I understand the government complies with the vote of the people.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 14:02

I also believe that in Switzerland if there if a certain percentage of the population call for a vote on a subject the governemnet has to comply. I think the number is 100,000 people. If we had the same system in the UK it would have meant that the decision to go to war in Iraq would have gone to the people. Blair would have been able to make his case and then the UK population would have voted yes or no

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 14:06

IloveCyprus



Good list & agree with most of it.

It really annoys me when I see people who have had expensive, life-saving

surgery which was needed due to their live-style, e.g. heavy smoking, then continue to smoke. If they really can't stop, they are either weak-willed, or so

badly addicted they need help. We are responsible for our own bodies, & we only get one. Overweight is another example, as is over-drinking (must drink less wine)

Community Nat. Service has been going in Germany, Austria for some time.

Do they have a better crime rate among the young un-motivated? Think so.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 14:17

I agree with you phylray. Focus has to be on prevention not cure

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 14:30

Hi all,



Very interesting. I dont want to be negative but when we look at the birth rate of the immigrant population, as opposed to that of the British population, we are becoming overwhelmed. Soon they will be in the majority, and under democratic principles,they

control Parliament, and therefore dictate how things are run, who is taxed, and how it is spent.

The lid lads and lassies, is off Pandoras Box!



Remember Enoch Powell and the rivers of blood speech! Look at all the stabbings. I have heard nothing else on Sky since I came back. Literally rivers of blood!



Someone had to say it..........but its too late now!



wynyardman

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 14:43

It's bit like trying to stem a tide with a bucket Wyn



Europe is ageing fast, we are not populating at levels necessary for growth, whereas the opposite is happening in Asia and Africa. Power is shifting. Turkey is the only country in Europe with a younger population.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 15:32

Unfortunately nothing will change in the UK. Succesive governments have ensured that, and will do so in the future.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 16:02

It's all about power and control Bill. Not until people (politicians) are prepared to relinquish it, then things wont change

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 16:41

I'm afraid I can't see it happening in the UK Mike.

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 16:57

Ah!,.... The good old days eh?



I cut my teeth in London in the 60's. What a great time! The 'blacks' had arrived on the Empire Windrush to be the street cleaners, nurses and clippies, when no Brits wanted those jobs. (any different to todays immigrants?).



Carnaby Street, swinging London, Cavern Club, sex, drugs and rock & roll!! Yeah!



Some though seem to forget that that era was one of gangland crime, prostitution, drugs, ang weekly dredging of the Thames for bodies with feet tied to concrete blocks.



Covent Garden and Soho were no-go areas after 7pm, families such as the Krays and the Rachmans ruled not only London, but most cities. Beatings, murders, intimidation and eviction of tenants was commonplace.











Nostalgia isn't what it used to be!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
18/07/2008 18:10

I don't recall Covent Garden being a no go area after 7pm. Got my first (and only) pair of 'Beatle Boots' made there.