Owners managing their own complex

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 20:31

Being one of 78 owners on a complex at Esentepe, we use a well known and reputable company to manage our site (the site name and management company are immaterial). A couple of owners have asked the committee why we don't manage the site ourselves and save on the annual management charge. As a committee member I am carrying out a feasibility study, taking into account as many pros and cons as possible.

The current contract has 10 months to run, and the management company are fully aware of this process.

The main issues as I see them are getting a good price when buying water, and using an agent to employ a gardener and swimming pool contractor.

If anyone can think of pitfalls\problems etc it would be greatly appreciated.

Michael

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 20:58

If you can get 100% of owners in agreement and you all have your deeds, you have overcome two of the greatest hurdles .

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
15/06/2010 21:53

yes it wil be left probably to one or two people and the others will sit back and moan all the time ! that its not as good as it was

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 06:27

I agree we ran our own site for 2 years and it was a constant battle to get people to pay their fees and the committee got fed up with being scapegoats for everything. Also if you have some owners in the uk you can never all get together. We now have a company who do nothing so where do we go from here?

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 06:48

deniz1



"a company that does nothing ?"



surely you dont pay them then .......



kav

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 07:48

Owner management has to be the ultimate goal, which will only be achieved when all owners show an active intrest and its not just left to a few who are lumbered as scapegoats for all that goes wrong. A good commitee with positions of responsability deligated within, prefrebly to people who are permanent residents , who can keep a finger on the button can make owner management achieveable, and dont expect those that give up there free time to run such sites to do it for nothing.



D.N

tamand


Joined: 23/07/2009
Posts: 240

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 08:35

It wont happen as pipie showed so often, whot makes you think people like her will pay if things are a little bit wrong.

too many pitfalls in this country, developers having a hold over things, people cheating with water deliveries, stealing electric, are you going to be able to watch the gardeners all the time, petty pilfering from them break ins etc the list is endless, the trouble is you people dont REALLY want to pay ANYTHING and no good maintenance companie will work for nothing

And its a fact that on any complex you wont get complete harmony theres always those that have personal grudges against somebody, or somebody isnt happy cos this or that is not in place, you read it all the time on here, and whot happens if you are not a registered company and you have defaulters you cant take em to court here or in UK

My advice, stick with whot youve got cos youll find that your committee will be always changing with resignations and people will get uptight and splits will develop

tamand


Joined: 23/07/2009
Posts: 240

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 08:40

Cont



Just wait and see the personal attacks now cos i say it like it is

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 08:47

Dixie.



I agree the ultamate goal . But in my mind unachievable.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 09:19

ctjtill.



I do wish you the very best with all, and I hope you keep keep us all informed of the progress, I for one are very interested of the outcome . Cheers and good luck .

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 09:23

message 7 I agree entirely, plus unless you are a TC I believe you are not allowed to employ people ie gardeners etc., directly or so I have been told



The key is to get a good MC and there are a few and a strong committee then it works

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 09:47

All the info so far is great...really helpful.

If we do go it alone how would we go about employing a gardener legally if we are not a registered company?

Does anyone know the current price per ton for tankered water?

Michael

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 10:12

Hi michael

you will have to hire through a company, or start one up, or hire an actual gardening company to carrry out the works on your behalf, the trouble is that most of the smaller 'companies' tend not to issue Faturas here and if they do price goes up accordingly, also same in the case of pool companies, my advice is make sure you get fatura's as some of your owners may turn round and try to make out there is something going on or they are being cheated in some way.

The average price for water in small amounts is 8/10tl a ton, my boss used to charge 6tl for large orders for the sites he was supplying, you will also need to take into account when the water meters fail and urgent action is required to rectify, the call out plumber charge etc is high, its better to have people on site who can handle problems like that included in the price paid for maintenance, you are entering a minefield my friend

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 10:45

Very good post L/D .

Toonie


Joined: 18/07/2009
Posts: 78

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 12:04

Hi

Our complex in Girne has 18 apartments, extensive gardens and pool. Seven years ago when it was built the all English owners opted to employ a management company who are still around, the service was terrible and we found they appeared in the summer when it suited them and had many add ons which they seemed to make up as they went along.



Anyway we decided to appoint a committee of four owners and go it alone, the best thing we ever did. Problems arose when Turkish people bought in as they are very reluctant to pay any monthly charges. However when a Turkish Policeman bought he took a active interest, arranged free legal advice with the Police Lawyer who drew up a legal contract which needed to be approved by the majority of the owners before being registered at Girne Court.



Suddenly some non payers began to pay, and the difference was immense, the point being in my opinion is you need somebody local to be on the committee if you go it alone, especially arranging repairs.

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 12:53

We had local man on our committee and he was the first one who didnt pay any fees!! Another wouldnt ask the tcs for money as they were his neighbours and he didnt want to offend them. So the good old brits ended up subbing the non payers as usual.

Toonie


Joined: 18/07/2009
Posts: 78

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 15:55

Deniz1

Take your point , we were lucky a Turkish Police family bought, he rings them up to ask about non payment. However at least all the money collected and its about 90%, goes on maintenace not profit for Property Management Companies. They really are letches in my opinion, a friend pays £70 a month to a leading company. He rarely visits the Bungalow overlooking ALAGADI Beach, as his wife is ill, I went two weeks ago to check it and was shocked. No electricity, had been cut off, gardens terrible, pool green and full of gunge. They obviously new he didnt go .

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 16:27

So many management companies do that they wait until just before the owner arrives then its panic stations to sort it out. I used to work for one.

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 16:35

Keep the comments coming please....all good stuff.

It leads on to another question (on topic) which is how difficult\expensive is it for us Brits to form our own company in the TRNC, where we could employ staff and pay all our taxes?

Michael

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 17:05

how about a big name and shame notice near the entrance.

The following owners have not paid their monthly payments-

Joe Bloggs 3 months

Gordon Brown 13 years

etc

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 17:32

we name and shame it does have its desired effect ! message 18 you are not wrong an MC told me once - I just get the place ready when I know the owners are coming they dont know what goes on after they leave -professional eh !!.



So it is always good to have owners that live on site on the committee as they are your eyes and ears

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 17:34

ps I hasten to add not all MC's are bad there are good ones out there )) like you get iin most trades the good the bad and the downright ugly goings on

crofter


Joined: 16/12/2008
Posts: 1035

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 17:53

CJtill



To start your own company in the TRNC it will cost you $100.000.00 of which a proportion of that amount is 'blocked' for 18 months. Taxes have to be paid as does Social Sigorta which is very high. Work permits have to be renewed annually.

parky


Joined: 13/06/2009
Posts: 182

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 18:13

Doing it yourself will be a disaster, differences of opinion, non payers, people not pulling their weight, blame for mistakes, problems with account keeping leave it to the pros.

Toonie


Joined: 18/07/2009
Posts: 78

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 19:02

Just to finish off re non payers, our committe issues monthly accounts showing who pays and where the money goes. All bills paid by direct debit through Turkbank and Octopus top the pool up as required. Turkish owners pay in Cyprus and English owners in the English account Internet banking lets the Committe see who is paying what.



And as I said previously no money leaving the complex to so called property management companies.

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 19:18

Hi Mick,



I know a little bit about your site, I know it is fund managed and that you have a strong committee. I also know that last year, you managed to get 100% of owners paying. All sites are different and I am sure there are lots of non payers on other sites which would cause major problems but that is not the case on your site. I am sure some owners are resident on site all year. There are gardening companies you could employ together with pool companies, you have already got the experience necessary as you are fund managed and have the necessary contacts needed to run your site.



The butler

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 20:16

Crofter message 23.

Could you please explain a bit more about the 100,000 USD and what the blocking is.

Do you need a TC to be a partner in a company?

batterboy58



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
16/06/2010 21:38

Useful info on setting up TRNC Company

http://www.glencoecyprus.com/glencoeforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=429

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 09:55

Re mess 14

I usually make good posts, unlike you and really dont need the platitudes of one with so much to say and who says so little.



Michael,

if you want to you should really speak to someone who tried very hard to make a maintenance company work successfully and in an honest manner, and who was demonised by some of the very people who are giving you advice on here, people who really know very very little about the workings of these things in this country, just what they would like as seen through their own eyes and who do not take the views of the majority on board, people who have been shown for what they really are.

As batterboy says there is a host of info on that board, both positive and negative if you read through the past posts, and if you ask questions you will get honest answers from someone who has been through it all and now has got no axe to grind.

I also know your site and am personally aware of several families who are not too happy with the present set up.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 10:41

Michael.



Seek good legal advise.











L/D LOL .

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 11:05

Hi Lazy days,



Very good post and advice, your last line on msg 29 states "I akso know your site and am personally aware of several families who are not too happy with the present set up" What are they not happy about, the fact the site is fund managed or is it the management company? Shouldn't they be contacting the committee about their feelings? I know several owners on this site who all say it has improved enormously in the last year, in fact it is 200% better than when the developer managed it.



The butlers wife

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 14:44

Again thanks for all the input...

There has been no owners telling the committee that the management company are not up to scratch, and if they feel that way then let them suffer in silence. The committee listen to all owners views, and try and respond to the sensible suggestions, one of which has resulted in this thread.

All thoughts though are greatly appreciated....keep them coming.

Michael

crofter


Joined: 16/12/2008
Posts: 1035

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 14:56

No you do not need a TC partner. The blocking of money is to ensure that one pays the necessary taxes and dues during the period of 18 months. If all above board when 18 months is up then this money is 'unblocked' and one has access to it again.



Hope this helps.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 20:28

Michael, what site are you on?



Our site at Esentepe is fund managed too, so maybe we could share ideas and experiences.



If you prefer not to say on here you can e-mail me at; millzer@hotmail.co.uk

smithy


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 5301

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 21:01

Well said Toonie, my Son is in Cyprus at the moment and looked in at the complex and said it looks great, well done

Hope you are both well. Sheila

Toonie


Joined: 18/07/2009
Posts: 78

Message Posted:
17/06/2010 21:41

Hi Sheila

Thanks both well, just had 10 weeks in Cyprus.

smithy


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 5301

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 00:03

Hi Brian

Brad and the girls are at the Ship In for two week, trust them to go and visit when I come back to the UK

Lucky you 10 weeks and great weather, take care

Sheila xx

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 09:41

Hello Butlers wife, sorry just to clear up what I said, I know 2 owners who are in general very happy with what is being done, though they have voiced their opinions over minor concerns about the charges, perhaps one of them was the one that asked Michael the original question.

There is another lady & gent who are currently unhappy but I put this down to the fact they are keen to sell but cant.

Your complex at FG&B is looking really well and the committee do a tremendous job, and you more than most know how hard it is to satisfy the wishes of everyone, especially with the amount you have to pay for maintenance on a yearly basis, most other complex's owners would have a fit if asked to pay what you do

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 09:50

Owners need not have fit's !!If transparency/accountability are in situ for all owners to see then owners are fully aware of running costs .



where is FG&B ?

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 10:01

cjtill.



What accountability/transparency do you have at present ? just curious .

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 11:28

Hi Lazy days,



As you rightly say, it is very difficult to please everyone all of the time, this happens on all sites. I know the committee on this site have worked extremely hard, giving of their time for free. All accounts are transparent for any owner to see where the monies go and they are also published. In comparison to other sites the fees are high but the committee are unable to lower these, as the costs of running the site are very high. For the owners who are trying to sell and are unhappy, it is easy to blame the site fees but there are many factors involved. The political situation, the Orams case, the auctions, the recession, the list is endless. Hopefully there will be an improvement in all of these, in time.



The butlers wife

Chegwin


Joined: 24/03/2009
Posts: 775

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 13:21

I think that a self managed site would be a good idea if it worked. There is a tremendous amount of effort that goes on behind the scenes that is managed by a Management Company and using their expertise, experience and local contacts, in my opinion is invaluable and has a cost.

This knowledge would have to be shown, by a proposed self managed committee, to mirror that of the Management Company if the site was self managed and for the residents to consider a change.

As Management Companies, by nature have to make a profit, the only reduction in site fees that owners would see would be this profit plus their running costs, divided by the number of residents.

Now, I am not doing the sums but at a guess it wouldn’t be a huge reduction that the benefits derived from such a reduction would outweigh the benefits of having the Management Company look after mine and others interests on the site.

On the other hand if the reduction in site fees were to be significant then consideration could

Chegwin


Joined: 24/03/2009
Posts: 775

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 13:23

...............be given to a change.





Chegwin

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 13:29

The committee are responsible for setting the fees at FGBR which are based on the previous years spend (actual and anticipated) plus planned\unplanned increases. The management company were asked about their fee structure for 2010 beforehand (we tendered last year but not this, as we were happy with the performance v costs) and we informed the owners in our monthly newsletter of the new fees. A complete breakdown of costs were provided by the aid of spreadsheets and a covering explanation. The running accounts are available for inspection by any of the owners, and we try and keep all those that are interested fully aware of where their hard earned is being spent. It seems to work very well but we cant sit still, as we are always looking at ways of improving efficiency\saving money......hence this thread.

Have now completed the feasibility study and submitted to the other 4 committee members. Thanks for all your help.........Michael

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
18/06/2010 13:36

It would be interesting to see how all pans out . Good luck with it all .