Programme about N.Cyprus tonight

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
08/07/2010 11:58

On STV (ITV etc.) about couple who bought in N.Cyprus and their legal problems

Is it the Orams? Called "Homes from Hell"

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
08/07/2010 12:04

Yes I beleive it is.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
08/07/2010 12:27

Orams, yes that rings a bell.

Smity



Joined: 14/09/2009
Posts: 826

Message Posted:
08/07/2010 12:28

Old news being reported thought this was all done and dusted



It happening all over the world not Just TRNC, In Dubia, Spain , USA Even france



While ever there are poeple willing to invest in a future there will always be wide boys trying to make a fast buck out of you

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
08/07/2010 13:36

Smity...msg 4



Although you are obviously correct in your assertion that property scams happen all over the world,your reference to "wide boys" rather the muddies the waters for the particular problems encountered in the TRNC.



Unless of course you also class the TRNC government and legislature as wide boys ?

mint1955



Joined: 30/05/2007
Posts: 988

Message Posted:
08/07/2010 14:16

Is it just a repeat or a new updated one?

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
08/07/2010 19:05

Message 6 Don't know as I haven't seen the first one, though everybody keeps telling me about it!

I am taping it as have better things to do tonight but would like to see it, so I know what yous all know!

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
08/07/2010 21:33

There's another thread on this and someone says it's a new one, but don't hold your breath!

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
08/07/2010 23:30

dont watch it its always pro greek

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 00:04

it's based on the UK High Court judgement against the Orams and has nothing in it about the fact that GCs have to use the IPC from now on, or wait for a settlement. I'm sure the TRNC government media army will swing into action to counter this bad publicity.

silcuty21


Joined: 24/05/2010
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 00:16

hi all



i think its an another damming report on north cyprus it bought the building industry crashing

unfortunatly i think this is the final knock out blow prime time tv greeks will use that footage with

the orams packing up and leaving everywhere



not matter what shine or spin we put on this unless our homes are built on turkish land which mine is not

any one of us could be next its not if but when will the knock on the door be



what a shame im just going to make the most of it worst things in life happen than this



chin up (in my case which one )



sylv

Maximillion13


Joined: 08/07/2010
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 00:23

This is the official description of Northern Cyprus.



"Northern Cyprus has received diplomatic recognition only from Turkey, upon which it is dependent for economic, political and military support. The rest of the international community, including the United Nations and the European Union, recognises the de jure sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus over the entire island."



I feel very sorry for the Osrams but i find it hard to believe that anyone who buys property in Northern Cyprus does not know there are issues. Would they have bought "bargain" land in occupied Gaza or in Kuwait had Saddam not been removed. It should never have been sold and they should seek compensation from the governing body who authorised the sale.



The statement about pro Greek is idiotic. Exactly the same thing is happening in the South on behalf of displaced Turkish Cypriots. Hundreds of thousands of people were displaced at gunpoint from both sides and forced to leave their homes and possessions be

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 02:09

Mal

Message 10



Rather than the TRNC government media army countering the Orams publicity ,they would better looking at countering the irregularities and frauds closer to home.

The Orams are irrelevant now as the same conditions do not apply.



How many people have lost their homes like the Orams, due to the ROC inspired court case, and how many have lost their homes due to the irregularities in the North.



The ROC has lost the upper hand ,time for the North to take advantage of that and improve the situation.

Doesnt matter much whether you lose your house due to an Orams type situation or to a mortgage fraud, the result is the same.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 10:25

Most annoyingly it was wrongly advertised as it did not include anything about N.Cyprus

just England and Portugal.

dougskud



Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 356

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 10:38

Hi Everyone I saw the programme last night. It was an hour in length and featured people with property disasters in England,N.Ireland,Portugal and the Orams case.



I have to say the content and the presentation of the facts and background was extremely fair and I did not detect any anti North Cyprus propaganda.



The lasting message was " The Orams have lost their case judged in an English Court and were ordered out of their home and forbidden to set foot on the property again".The film showed the Orams leaving their home for the last time.



I would be interested to hear other views

regards

Doug

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 10:43

I was just trying to muster the enthusiasm to watch it as I recorded it last night, but won't bother now. They have probably recorded an 'Orams' programme, so will have to watch out for it. I have put it on series record, so should catch it in the future.

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 10:44

They could have checked the up to date facts about going through the IPC. There was no mention at all of this. It just said there may be 20,000 ex pats at risk following the Orams case.

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 10:49

So it did feature the Orams? Will scan through it and just watch the relevant section.

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 11:01

The whole programme was an eye opener, there are property problems not just in TRNC.



The NI couples case was dreadful and there are lots more people in the same boat, having bought houses at the height of the property boom here. They are now trapped in negative equity.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 11:06

dougskud, it was out of date and because it did not explain that all such cases have to now go through Turkey's Immovable Property Commission (or wait for an unlikely Cyprus settlement) which will probably never make a judgement which would result in the current occupiers of the property being in an Orams situation. Instead they finished with an incorrect warning which could have a serious impact on property sales in the north, if more than three people watched the programme that is.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 11:08

I watched this programme last night. I felt sorry for all of them, especially the chap who was having a place built in Portugal, but when the Estate Agent mentioned the words "Title" and "Deeds" it was pretty obvious what the outcome for him was going to be.



Very sad all round.



Maybe I should add that having received all but one of his stage payments, the builder buggered off leaving this man a half built shell that was going to rack and ruin. He enquired about selling just the land, but, as I said, had no Title Deeds and so could not.

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 11:14

Malsancak, are people still buying in North Cyprus? I would have thought that all the information on the net re. mortgages, lack of deeds, refusals of PTPs would have all but killed it off. There is so much more information out there than there was when a lot of us bought. I just cannot understand why the government does not get involved in some sort of damage limitation. For a country so dependent on construction and tourism, it appears that neither industry is being supported efficiently.

mozgor



Joined: 16/06/2010
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 11:16

I watched it and to be honest it was a very biased account of what happened and why the situation arose in the first place. It would have been great to have seen the documentary reflecting the fact that there is also property and land in the south that once belonged to Turkish Cypriots, but I suppose that's expecting too much, isn't it?

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 11:17

Re : Msg 14,

phylray, did you fall asleep? Or just short attention span?



Re: Msg 18,

Sloan, just last 10 minutes of the programme.

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 11:26

Yes, I have watched it now. The TRNC looked fabulous!! Can't wait to get back in a few weeks. It was out of date information, but I could not help thinking that some of the other horror stories (Amaranta, refusal of PTPs, deeds, mortgages, referenda etc) would have more impact as 'homes from hell'. There was an appeal at the end for further information about problems in the building industry throughout the world, but I don't think it would be beneficial for the TRNC to have any more adverse publicity!!!!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 11:27

sloan, contrary to rumour, property sales are sluggish but still going on. A house next to me sold recently for example. Although I spend a lot of time highlighting property problems I accept that the majority of builders are doing a good job. The permission to purchase/title deed fiasco however is inexcusable and allows the bad builders to exploit purchasers. For those who saw the programme it is clear the problem is not restricted to Cyprus.

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 11:42

As usual the programme makers just left out the IPC thats in place now regarding the Orams and NC which was not available in 2002!.... If they had put that bit in it would have not made such good viewing!.......



Another case of half stories by the media.....

Jefferson


Joined: 17/05/2010
Posts: 360

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 12:01

Excuse my ignorance but have the Orams left or was the end of the programme incorrect?

dizzycows


Joined: 12/05/2009
Posts: 2736

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 12:06

Yes they have left the lovely villa, a lot of stuff has been nicked, it already looks quite overgrown and neglected... Very sad, as the Greek that claims this bit of land will never be able to live back there....

barnaclebill


Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 303

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 12:16

Who will or even when will the place be flattened as per instuctions from the court ruling.What will happen if the Orams dont flatten it.Why doesnt the Government turn it into some sort of care home for needy kids.I think its a pretty safe bet that no greek is going to come across ,flatten it and plant a lemon Grove.The programme also failed to mention that the so called owner was not bothered that TCs were living on his land. Wonder why that was then????

BB

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 12:17

the bit that was wrong at the end of the programme was that expats in the same situation as the Orams should worry that it will happen to them. On March 5th 2010 the European Court of Human Rights ruled that an Orams type case could never happen again. Bit of a summary but perhaps that is what is needed for people to realise the programme's ending was wrong and therefore scaremongering.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 14:15

The programme could have been a lot worse as the Orams case is "old news".



If they had been reporting on current issues and how many people have paid for houses, had mortgages put on them after, no title deeds etc that would have been far more damaging.



For years ive been saying the TRNC authorities need to get their own acts together to help what is one of their biggest industries instead they sit back and do zero.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 14:26

Why would the politicians do anything when they are on gold plates salaries and pensions for doing as little as possible? Why would they want to rock the boat i.e. with their friends and relatives selling their 'exchange land' or benefiting from the construction industry in some way however small? What's the incentive for change in the TRNC?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 21:11

To be honest i couldnt see the point of showing the piece about the Orams at the end of the programme as it is out of date.I also noticed that they managed to use the Turkish intevention,or as they called it,invasion.No mention that the reason that the Turks intervened was because there had been a Greek coup.Such biased reporting as per usual,

Paul.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 21:35

Hector....good points.

The over-riding impression you get is that those at the top know that they have had a limited window of opportunity to feather their own nests and look after their own vested interests,so they will carry on even if this means "fiddling whilst Rome burns"

People need to be very aware that whatever form a settlement or velvet divorce takes in respect of Cyprus ,the demands of foreign buyers/ex-pats will be way way down the list of priorities for the TRNC government.I honestly believe that they do not care...and as long as Turkey is prepared to subsidise them and prop up the regime then why should they?

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 21:43

I did not fall asleep - I recorded it as I was busy at a choir rehearsal. It seems we in our part of

Scotland were shown a different programme than what most of you watched. It was about 2 families

in England, and one who bought in Portugal. Didn't see anything about N.Cyprus on this one.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 21:47

I think you must have set your recorder to finish to early because that sounds like the one i watched and it was only on for the last 10 or so minutes.

Texas


Joined: 22/09/2009
Posts: 634

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 23:04

I've recorded the program. The bit about the Orams is 10 minutes. It's now on a DVD and can be watched on any DVD player, or PC with a DVD drive.



I tried to upload it to You Tube, but after about 6 hours, it failed!



So, if you'd like to borrow it, email me: stevezzqq (at) hotmail.com.

Snaefell



Joined: 07/06/2009
Posts: 266

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 23:36

It should be available on BBC iplayer. I watched it and recorded it, and agree that the 1974 Turkish intervention was not reported accurately. I suppose it could have been worse though.

Snaefell



Joined: 07/06/2009
Posts: 266

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 23:37

Sorry not BBC iplayer, I meant the ITV version!!

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 01:08

Sorry everyone! After reading your posts I actually watched the last 10 mins. (which was not mentioned

in the introduction) and sure enough I saw what the Orams case was about. What a shame to destroy

such a lovely house, and I did feel sorry for them. I can't imagine Turkish Cypriots doing this. Surely some

compromise could have been made.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 16:54

I dont think the villa will ever be demolished will it,

Paul.

Civilised


Joined: 09/07/2010
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 17:01

Newlad msg 34. Uninformed you say. Youve been fed crap from Turks and you want to believe it. Intervention, unbelievable. How is rape and murder of civilians intervention? Of course you have your agenda though. Funny how the whole world takes the Greek stance. Of course the world has been brainwashed by our propaganda! Amazing the delusion here. I thought the FYROMIANS were deluded but this is something else. Britain has done enough damage to the island. When they were defeated I thought they would have had enough.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 18:35

Who is this discivilised person in Msg 43? Seems to me he needs serious lessons in manners and history! Sling him out to the antipodes for reprogramming!



Richard

Civilised


Joined: 09/07/2010
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 18:39

Discivilised LOL! Trying to call me uncivilised by using incorrect grammar. Bit embarrassing that. Why dont you tell me where I went wrong in history. Not surprised you want to sling me out. Id like to sling you out of my land. Why get involved it has nothing to do with you or your illegal home. The only Anglo's getting involved have vested interests, again very telling.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 18:43

watch ya paul ,the gc,s have already been invited to pop over and knock it down ,so there you have it,it,s staying where it is not going to be knocked down.





musin



long live the kktc

Civilised


Joined: 09/07/2010
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 18:46

We dont wish it knocked down, just the land returned to its owners. How would you like Part of England to be handed over to the Pakistani's Paul? Fairs fair no? Give them your house they deserve it.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 18:47

Discivilised

Wrong on that one, I'm a Kiwi not an Anglo! And yes, we're a bunch of cannibals however, with a name of Kolo Rasta I'm sure you'd barbecue up quite nicely with plenty hot jerk sauce!



Richard

Civilised


Joined: 09/07/2010
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 18:53

LOL again! Discivilised, youre too funny/retarded. Kiwi's are Anglo's at the end of the day, embarrassing you didnt know that, unless you are Mauri. You took their land well enough, you fit in well in this "nation"



Btw Kolo Ratsa isnt my name. Amusing you think so when its a thinly veiled insult. This is way to easy man. Where are the intelligent Turks, whoops sorry oxymoron.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 18:55

civilised ,have you ever been in the sea cadets.













musin





long live the kktc

Civilised


Joined: 09/07/2010
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 19:00

Sea cadets, sorry not that geeky pal. What has that got to do with Cyprus?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 19:05

Welcome back Pikey,its been a while,

Paul.

Civilised


Joined: 09/07/2010
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 19:07

Oh I see you think youre smart as youve clocked Im obviously an old member with a new sign in? Is that it? Wrong.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 19:07

Discivilised

A little NZ history lesson for you. The original indigenous race of NZ were the Morioris but when they were invaded by the Maori's they were all eaten, ending up in the hotpot! Exactly what the Turks should have done in 1974 to all Greeks! Would have been a great feast!



Richard

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 19:11

This is getting out of hand here , settle down or risk having the topic closed

Simbas

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 19:12

civilised

who mentioned you were an old member,love the spelling mistakes.



musin





long live the kktc

Civilised


Joined: 09/07/2010
Posts: 50

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 19:15

Agree Simbas... Very "discivilised" of you Richard. Tell me where your animosity towards the Greeks stems from?



It would of been cool had the Turks done that to the Greek Cypriots. Unfortunately they couldnt even take half a tiny island. Although cannibalism wouldnt surprise me.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 20:11

Re-Mess 43 ,

I try to keep an open mind regarding the troubles of 74, and have read books written by people with different views on the matter.One thing thas has stuck in my brain though,is the fact that the Turks intervened to avert a Greek coup.



You mention rape and murder of innocent civilians during the "invasion",but omit to mention the rape and murder that was carried out by Greek and Greek Cypriots.Women,children and British officers where also murdered.All wars have casualties and attrocities were commited by both sides in those 30 days of July 1974.



The top and bottom of the conflict as i see it is that Greece wanted Cyprus to join them, so the Junta enforced a coup.Turkey was having none of it so intervened in an effort to save Turkish Cypriots that were being slaughtered.There where casualties on both sides,as there is in war.I dont suppose there will ever be an agreement as to what happened,during those awful weeks.One thing is for sure,though.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 20:14

contd,

And that there is always two sides to every story.The general concensus to this war of 74 is that the blame lies firmly with the Turks.The more i read,find that this isnt strictly correct.Therefore i will carry on keeping an open mind on the events,until i find out the complete story.I dont suppose i ever will though,

Paul.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 20:22

Well said Paul...and Long live the TRNC.





Spider.X

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 20:24

Just trying to stay in the good books of Simbas,spider,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 20:27

paul



you have the story bang on ,there isn,t much more to the 74 conflict.





musin



long live the kktc

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 20:45

Musin,

What does worry me though is the fact that my two daughters have been brain washed by the Greek Cypriots,during there three year stay in Southern Cyprus.Such a shame that the propaganda lives on,

Paul.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 20:51

Reading a letter from a U.N soldier written to my Dad around the late 60's it seems the Turks

were treated as 2nd class citizens, and anyone who sympathised suffered also. He writes about

the disappearance of Major Macey, and was on the trail of what happened to this British officer

who had the audacity to be somewhat sympathetic to the T.C's. Go on Macey's website to know

who was responsible, and for many other's fates.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 20:57

Thank Phylray,

Paul.

HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 21:26

Jeannie 21 states: 'Maybe I should add that having received all but one of his stage payments, the builder buggered off leaving this man a half built shell that was going to rack and ruin. He enquired about selling just the land, but, as I said, had no Title Deeds and so could not. '

- My builder Cafer Yuceglazi did the same thing. But we cannot get the land as he did not own it. It is owned by Hasan Sungur who is a 'big shot' wealthy landowner here who owns half of TRNC and is president of the Estate Agents Union also Chief Exec of the Employers union in addition to lots of other titles. He also owns several construction companies. He is the architect of the 2008 land registration legislation which states that Landowners must sign the contract to safeguard the buyer from mortgages being put on the land - But he did not sign our contract. He entered into a contract with an un-registered builder to build on his land without a building permit. This is a prominent man of position!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/07/2010 21:36

This is becoming a common occurrence, disputes between land owner and builder. Each shifting the blame onto each other and no one taking responsibility for what has happened.



Happening a bit too frequently, I think.