Will TRNC title deeds be worth anything if there is a solution?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 14:35

Saw this in Cyprus Today, page 7, under leaks from the negotiations written in the South papers. If there has been considerable development of a property the current user can demand the title deed and pay its value before they start to develop it.

Our President seems to be suggesting that we pay GC's for their title deeds - what does that suggest?



I could be wrong, but where will that leave TRNC titles?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 14:37

What does 'pay it's value' mean? Why do I think that it doesn't bode well for the current user?

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 15:04

I suspect the translation is wrong as they start by say "If there has been considerable development.." and end by saying "...before they start to develop it"'

I don't know what that means but it is contradictory.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 15:07

I suppose this applies to everyone throughout the island who is occupying someone else's land. It's an idea, all it needs is for a settlement to take place - probably on the day after Hell freezes over.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 16:00

malsancak.



Perhaps we should be saying...



No Kochan........No money.....no chance! Whatever happenned to exchange?



I despair,



wynyardman

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
09/07/2010 16:15

in reality, nothing has changed. It's all talk.

expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 09:16

well, I am actually planning to buy a house in north Cyprus, a place with a pre-1974 Turkish title deed. Having read posts on this site really has given me, well, second thoughts.



Does anyone know of *any* cases where a foreigner has been given a PTP these last years?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 09:26

expatlady, as long as you stick to NO KOCAN, NO MONEY you'll be safer than most.

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 09:52

please explain NO KOCAN, NO MONEY,so if you find a proprty you bid is accepted,how can you get your kocan b4



you get you ptp,or are you saying the people selling it to you have to wait for 2 years till you get ptp ????????????

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 10:20

One interpretation is that the current user may be liable for compensation based on pre development prices.



Or to put it another way



See the Annan plan.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 10:30

catalkoykid, NO KOCAN, NO MONEY! is saying that you should follow the UK model where no cash is given until a title deed is ready to be transferred into your name. If you asked a UK solicitor to oversee a purchase in Cyprus they would be horrified that money is passed to a vendor without anything apart from a promise being passed to the purchaser. It has been shown that this promise is easily broken by the vendor putting a mortgage on property after money has been given to them. The government promised that recent legislation would not allow this but this promise was also untrue. This also means not paying your advocate in Cyprus until the transaction is successful, or if you or the vendor withdraw.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 10:34

Catalkoykid....msg 9



YES...that's what we all should be saying.



They have used the interminable wait for PTP as an excuse for years.

If you get your own police checks done in the UK,then there is no reason at all,particularly bearing in mind the sheer number of overpaid and underworked civil servants in the TRNC,that PTP shouldn't be processed in a few weeks, rather than years.



Sellers would then have no problem waiting say a month after the initial deposit is paid,for the buyer to know they have PTP and the sale can progress.



It is SO simple,and could be implemented almost immediatley .



Until now we have all been assured by estate agents,advocates,builders etc that PTP is just a formality,but it does take several years......and then we get the smile and the Cyprus shrug.



It is time we showed that unless PTP is granted quickly, so that the Kocan can then be transferred,we are NOT prepared to pay anything other than a small initial deposit.



NO KOCAN.....NO MONEY !

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 10:39

malsancak/Msg 11:



Very wise advice, indeed - but, isn't it true to say that the bulk of buyers are 'impulse buyers', therefore these people will never pay heed to even the best advice?

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 10:43

bullshit mess 12, i done my my police checks, supplied it all to them its still been with the army for 18 months

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 10:50

catalkoykid...msg 14



A nice turn of phrase...but you still don't get it.



That's what I'm saying.....WHY does it take so long to get PTP ?



WHY have you waited 18 months?



WHY is it still "with the army" ?



Don't you get it?......we are arguing the case that PTP takes too long,for no real reason,and should be able to be done in weeks rather than years.



Read people's posts carefully before jumping to conclusions and spouting your own "bullshit" !

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 10:54

well happy hunting for a property, hope you find someone that will wait 2 years for the money, maybe even butler for you

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 11:00

Catalkoykid.....are you genuinely this ignorant of the TRNC system you have bought into or are you just a wind up merchant?



Sadly...I suspect the former.



A seller would only have to wait 2 years because PTP takes too long.

If PTP WAS processed quicker....which it could easily be....the both seller and buyer could complete the deal in a couple of months and everyone would be happy.



Get it ?

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 11:11

yes and if my auntie had balls she would be my uncle,yes it would be nice if the system changes, BUT its not so pay your money and take your chance, if its a to bigger risk for you, or others but somewhere you feel safe,this system will not change soon of that im sure

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 11:22

cronos msg 17



In answer to your first sentence, the answer is both. Has a long history on this forum along with a.n.other

catalkoykid


Joined: 15/02/2009
Posts: 1190

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 11:41

dave keep going on your marches,and taking the pills

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 11:47

Message 7,



We have our title deeds for our pre 1974 Turkish Title property. We recieved them about two years ago. I know their is a lot of talk but I am sure that as long as you make sure what ever you buy is not restricted because of its location/close to the army, then you should have no problems.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 11:49

expat lady,



Do not buy pre 74 villa. Please read my thread "if the law won't protect us" I will resurrect it for you. Read it and ask yourself, Do I want to have the same experience?



You will be paying in full for a property you will never own and putting yourself at risk of memorandums being put on your property.



The HBPG are now warning people not to purchase pre 74. Go along to one of their Tuesday meetings and you will see just how many people have been affected by this unwritten ruling.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 12:12

blade...msg 21



Unfortunately that is NOT the case.



We were refused on "military" grounds despite our property being nowhere near a military base....the centre of Ozankoy !



It is just an excuse....and you do not get the decision in writing nor can you easily question the Military about it !



Applications for PTP made from 2006 onwards on Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds ARE being refused to foreigners...go on the HBPG website.

We know this to our cost and decided to sell as a result.

We sold to someone with a TRNC ID card so they would not have the same problems.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:18

Cronos,

Can I ask was your property pre owned by an expat?



I know lots of people are suffering but its not just people with pre74 Turkish title which are being refused , it also happens to those on exchange land. We have friends who have been refused and they have the exchange land, so I don't think you can just say it Turkish title. Its the chance you have to take to buy any property here.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:19

So why can you all see the obvious.

they are "TRNC" trying to sold out as more of the gcs land they can to "secure it" , tcs land its rightfully theirs

we they should sold it out?

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:28

blade...msg 24



My property was a new build....but I don't see the relevance of your question !



Even buying a resale from an expat does not protect you.

Just because the expat vendor got PTP does not mean that you will.

All PTP applications are unique to the applicant and the property.



Furthermore you have misunderstood me.

I am not saying that ONLY Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds are being refused to foreigners....it is also happening on Exchange Title....but this hardly makes the situation better does it ?



What I AM saying is that PTP is NOT being granted to foreigners ( on an unwritten,covert basis ) on Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds,for all applications made after 2006.

range


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 28

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 09:30

Hi Everyone, New to this board, there is some great info on here, & some good advice, we are in the middle of buying a house in Karsiyaka, Title deeds not in owners name yet, but everything seems in order, we came over last year for the first time & fell in love with north cyprus, We know everywhere can have its downside, But just want to ask is it as nice as it seems, or am i missing something,& anything we should avoid when buying a property, Many Thanks

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 09:52

Range. You say you are in the middle of buying a house here. Exactly what stage of the purchase are you?

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 09:58

range,

Do your homework, then go back and do it again. Then if you are still happy then go ahead. Not everyone has had problems buying here, but those who have are the ones you will hear about.

Its a little like playing the lottery there are winners and loosers.

My main advice would be to question if you can afford it? Not being rude but if you lost everything here where would it leave you? If the answer is broke and homeless then don't buy.

Don't fall into the trap of following the sheep, make your own mind up and go with your gut instinct.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 10:05

blade...msg 29



I realise that it is hard for you to hide your contempt for those of us on here who have justifiably negative comments to make about property purchase in TRNC.



But,based on your comments to Range,you appear to be saying that you have as much chance of a successful purchase as winning the lottery , and don't commit to buy unless you can afford to lose all your money !



Is that correct?

wattys


Joined: 07/10/2008
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 10:56

While there are some buyers who have been duped by estate agents and developers, there are many who at this moment in time who are happy with their lot, unless it all ends up pear shape for all of us.



Can someone start a survey to see the percentage of who are happy with their purchase and those who are not, or would this give the GCs something to crow about.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 11:43

What I am saying is that you must do your homework.

It is not contempt but I like people to understand that there are those of us who didn't have any problems with buying here. Any where abroad you can buy a home and get scammed, its not just North Cyprus. If you need to remortgage to buy a home abroad then you can't afford the risks. If you are happy to take a chance then go for it, if not stay at home.



wattys,

Thats probably a good idea.

wattys


Joined: 07/10/2008
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 12:18

I am sure there are more people in the south unhappy with their purchase than the north, they have the same thieving, robbing agents and developers, as stated by Blade you can get stiched up any where in the world.

I have 3 friends who all bought in Bulgaria they have been stiched up good and proper, no electricity, no swimming pools no furniture packs which were paid for, and now find the development has been sold to different companies without them knowing, resulting any problems are not the new owners problem.



There are thousands of people in the south with no title deeds and are never likely to get them, we all know the problems some of our compatriots on this site who are suffering from the cheats and crooks, the only way to stop this happening to many more is solidarity, make your voices heard send letters to government officials and local Muktars, without the money we spend in the TC the local businesses would be in a worst state than what they are now. Just my thoughts

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 12:34

question . " Dear Watty's , I am not interested in what the GC's think or dont think but I am a bit worried,I am thinking of buying in NC but is it true its not illegal for the builder to mortgage the land that I have paid for and the bank to kick me out, unless I have my PTP ? "

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 12:43

Girne 29 re message 34



Do not buy property which does not have cleared title Deeds!



No Deeds, No Money!



PTP does not protect you from anything!!!

wattys


Joined: 07/10/2008
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 12:44

After being a member on this site for 30 months and posting 1187 posts are you trying to take the PISS

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 13:39

The question was meant to be rhetorical ,to emphasise the difference between what is asked and the answers.

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
13/07/2010 14:02

walkerscott,

in your msg 35, you use the phrase "cleared title deeds" which I have not seen before on this forum.

What do you understand to be the meaning of this phrase, and what is its significance?

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
15/07/2010 13:33

walkerscott,

Any answer? - I'm really interested, and concerned that I've been missing something...

mamachina


Joined: 22/11/2008
Posts: 730

Message Posted:
15/07/2010 14:59

A good news story - we signed contract (for a resale) in Octoner 2008, went to Land Registry on Monday to sign transfer documents - not bad going!! Previous owner had it built, never lived in it. We are pretty sure it was an agricultural plot previously as has large water tank on corner of cul de sac - which would have watered 6 or 7 litle plots!! Lets hope the GC farmer doesnt want his piece of grain growing land back in some far distant future!!!!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/07/2010 15:24

Congratulations mamachina. Well done



One down



wyn

range


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 28

Message Posted:
19/07/2010 08:50

Hi no1 Doven,We are buying a Bungalow in Karsiyaka,The couple that own it are going back to uk, personal reasons,they have only had it for approx 18 months,so deeds are not in their names yet,our solicitor seems happy enough,Naomi Mehmet, we looked at a lot of houses, went out with a few estate agents,some good & some i wouldnt buy a watch off,we are just trying to be carefull, there is no link with the estate agent & solicitor or owners, the estate agent seems good & genuine, Korinia,the house is about 5 years old, built on farming land, the owners of the original land still live on the site, The 2 daughters have a house each,we have put a deposit on the house & just letting the solicitors get on with it, could be anytime now, would be glad of your feedback. many thanks

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
19/07/2010 09:50

range, NO KOCAN, NO MONEY! If you have read the HBPG website it clearly says that the solicitor should not be paid until you have the title deeds in your name and she should not be passing on your deposit until the title deed (kocan) is in your name. Any other way COULD lead to a mortgage being put on the property without your consent. Ask Noami how long it will take for you to get title deeds in your name. Only an opinion based on listening to 100s of sad stories from people who didn't do it this way. I bought land and waited until I had a kocan in my name before building started. I would be interested in hearing the opinions of EX-PATS who HAVE THEIR KOCANS (different rules for citizens).

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
19/07/2010 15:52

Range,

You say the origional owners daughters live in the same location.

Is it exchanged land , turkish title or other title?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
19/07/2010 22:50

Guys,



I think we should be careful. No Kochan No money could be misleading people.



No one knows the political outcome of the talks over the future of The TRNC. Will our TRNC kochans (those that have them)



have any validity? If the Orams case is anything to go by, we could all end up in the dodo. Big time! There are rumours that we



have to pay the Greek Owners ( Exchange Land) The 74 cost? Present day cost? Developed cost or undevelopment cost.



NO ONE KNOWS! I would like to draw members or guests attention back to the title of this thread.Caveat Emptor1



wyn



If Turkey really want to be in the EU, we could all end up like lambs to the slaughter.



Here we go again.......is this the next TRNC Property scam. They have done nothing to sort property issues so far.

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
19/07/2010 23:13

Hi Wyn,



Yesterday I read on another forum that the land around Esentepe is SAFE EXCHANGE LAND, can anybody tell me what this means? Does it mean that the original Greek owners have given their permission to the exchange or does it mean the land wasn't worth anything before 1974. I know it wasn't good enough for agriculture only for grazing goats on. Your thoughts appreciated.





The butlers wife

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
19/07/2010 23:24

Hi The Butler,



As I understood it it was just virtually scrubland, at least where we bought. I was told that there was barely a road, just a track.



The issue is, we havent a clue what criteria will be accepted. Undoubtedly development land now does have a value.



I have tried for 4 years where my Exchange Land is. I think it is just a virtual plot! There again we were told that the' bubbles"



had falsified the land records. I think we underestimate the issues to be overcome



Just my thoughts, thats all, It has to be a broad stroke solution, and that will leave losers.



Wyn

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
20/07/2010 00:13

Question, will title deeds be worth anything if there is a solution. Only Wyn seems to be looking at the end game in spite of all he has suffered and the brave tenacity he displays. We have deeds after 5 years of worry and financial rip off. If there is a solution which involves some sort of compliance with Euro type legislation we will feel no more secure witnessing what still goes on in the South and of course Spain and other so called civilised countries of the EU. If a solution leaves TRNC free of the EU yardsticks but perhaps not Turkey we feel no more secure. The rafts of double selling, hidden mortgages, advocates no longer allowed access to land registry records to check for "exchange" land, etc all point towards more future whammies . I regret to say that those who can't wait for a solution so that their property has great value may have to swallow a very bitter pill and it might be better to get on with life believing that the deeds are squit, anything better a bonus.

range


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 28

Message Posted:
22/07/2010 20:09

Hi Blade, sorry ive took so long to get back to you, the land is exchange land, trnc freehold, the people who live on the land, 2 daughters have a house each, their father was given it in exchange for land he lost,he has since died & it was passed to them. kind regards, range

kanga


Joined: 17/06/2010
Posts: 38

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 11:37

everyone has a answer but at the end of the day what will happen and what wont no one knows, everyone reads the storys but at the end of the day its up to the person take the risk or not, anyway there will be no salution the gc has all the rights and nc has none would you share if the world is on your side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!