Kocan in Northern Cyprus

coolrob


Joined: 24/06/2008
Posts: 28

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 11:08

Applied for p.t.p in April 2004 took 2 years to come through, contract not registered at the Land Registry until February 2009 due to a missunderstanding on my behalf received Kocan April 2010 so would seem the system works sometimes. I sought advise from Marion H.B.P.G. used a law firm that actualy did something and never took no as an answer. Pressure Pressure Pressure it worked for me don't assume these thing happen automaticaly in the T.R.N.C.

Cool Rob.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 11:22

you were very lucky. Many people have done pressure pressure pressure and I assure you I am one of them but if a builder refuses to transfer kocan,unless you or your solicitor, can blackmail him the only redress is court. In the meantime whilst they have the kocan and youre at the peril of the courts anyone can come along who has won a courtcase and then place a memorandum on the builders assest which is the home you have paid for!



even now I still dont think people realise that whilst the kocan is in the hands of the builder no matter what youre solicitor tells you a memorandum can be obtained by someone out of the blue and thats where it all really starts.



I appreciate you have to constantly be on to the solicitor but for many we are in this hopeless situation that cannot be addressed until the government changes the law



We all know it can work but many of us know when it doesnt its a nightmare

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 12:37

Why would you handover the title deeds if you didn't have too. Its not a legal requirement. The only reason for doing this is to receive more money or because you are honest and will adhere to the agreed contract.That is why it is such a lottery.



If you are dishonest or in financial difficulty its an absolutely brilliant and safe way to continue to own a property whilst having been paid in full.



Laws are introduced to safeguard citizens. This has been a problem in the TRNC for decades. Why oh why is nothing being done about this? Why is the present Government happy to sit back and see such criminal behavior without taking action?

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 12:41

Bradus,

You asked "Why is the present Government happy to sit back..."

Probably because all politicians have 'Cousins', neighbours, or voters who are involved in property / building, and are reluctant to upset them.

This is probably true all over the World, but nowhere does it come so close to the surface as here!

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 12:53

I agree why would they hand them over as you say there is no law to make them even when you win a case.



I just cannot believe or understand that the government will not make it law. As for the solicitors they know the law and what problems could be but never once when I continually questioned at the beginning of he purchase was I advised re memorandums. I know buying off plan can be a risk which many have taken but when it comes down to transfer of kocan i dont know of many people who were warned of the dangers of memorandum s



we were told registering would stop the banks but I was never warned of the memorandums apart from I had such a good contract there wouldnt be a problem!!



Dont know who I am more annoyed at myself for believing it or the solicitor for not acting for the client but then dont know how they can act as basically theres not a lot they can do apart from us paying out more fees to get a judgement to auction it off to pay ourselves!!!



As fro pre 74 deeds

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:00

we all thought how lucky if you had pre 74 deeds but then thats turned out be be so difficult for foreigners .



I asked my solicitor about crimninal proceedings as it is criminal offence whatever way you look at it but I was advised the police would not take action.Have any of us tried it



Maybe if enough of us along with our solicitors representing us we went to the police or should I say to the head of prosecution to report the offences .I am quite sure if I had been paid 80/ 90 k and then refused to hand over the title deed I would be arrested.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:02

honestie



see Stand up for The TRNC msg 106



wyn

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:11

wyn



spot on but where do we take it now? like yourself I dont intend to give up and will do all I can to make peole aware probably too late for me but not too late to try and help others. But still dont feel its enough



honestie

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:13

Honestie,

If its not law, how can the police prosecute? No one has broken the law.



The question regarding memorandums is how does one protect themselves during the period between waiting for PTP and title deed transfer. What can be done to prevent a memorandum being placed on your property if the builder has financial difficulties?



Can people take any action themselves as waiting for law change is an obvious time waster.



Any ideas?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:23

honestie,



What I find is my biggest problem is what Legal Advice to accept.

6 advocates...6 differring opinions. All confident that their way is right. All saying send more money.

Obviously we have to battle on to try to protect what we have paid for, and to warn those that follow.

They all hide behind "its a question of how the courts interpret the law", and that my friend is the job of Government.



wyn

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:28

sorry Bradus it is criminal even my solicitor told me that and the law here is similar or should I say based on british law..!!! so technically they could prosecute depending on individual cases



someone takes your money and refuse to give you what you have paid for fits a defintion of theft maybe even fraud depending on the circs. I would have no doubt been prosecuted if it was the other way round.



As the solicitor say even if they were prosecuted we wouldnt get compensation but we may get the satisfaction of them being found guilty and a prison sentence ! wishful thinking but it would only take a few.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:45

Bradus ref Msg9 - Can people take any action themselves as waiting for law change is an obvious time waster.



This would need to be clarified before putting into practice but if purchasers put a charge on the property until such time that their PTP is granted and Kocan transfered at the offset of signing any contract wouldn't this take presidents over any future memorandum.



I know this is common practice followed in the TRNC when a developer gives a land owner properties in exchange for his land.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:54

Thanks Cooper, this is well worth exploring.

Honestie I have taken this from the HBPG site:



LAND OWNERS / PROTECTION OF KOÇAN

Problem



Currently there is no law which demands that a land owner relinquish control over the Koçan even though, upon entering into a construction agreement, he has morally relinquished the right of ownership.



There is a document on the information section which identifies all the problems land buyers experience. Although it was written in 2007 nothing has changed. The Government will introduce some new laws but they will only safeguard stage payments so won't be truly effective in dealing with the more common problems. A bit like the estate agents law..........a token gesture and supposedly reassurance that they are doing something.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 13:56

wyn



I feel exactly the same as you and no matter how many solicitors we use etc etc until someone steps in from the government to stop this we seem to just go on and on and pay out to solicitors. they know the score but still carry on .I am sure if enough of them got together to get it changed but then the legal cases would stop!!



Message 12



I asked my solicitor to put a charge on my propert when I first purchased 5 years ago but was told it was not necessary. A question I must bring up again.



I know this may be a stupid question here in trnc but has anyone sued a solicitor

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 14:05

Sorry i meant precedence not presidents in Msg12 )

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 17:04

Honestie/Msg 14: 'I know this may be a stupid question here in trnc but has anyone sued a solicitor?'



It's certainly NOT a stupid question - it is a very valid one!



The definitive answer is 'No', you cannot sue, or even challenge in court, an advocate who has, for instance, in our case, prepared a worthless [due to inappropriate and illegal wording] document - a Deed of Assignment, which was duly notarised by the recently retired governor of Lefkosa Prison, who is now a respected Notary.



This senior and 'experienced' advocate charged us £650 to prepare the Deed. We returned it twice to him, insisting the wording was incorrect, yet he kept insisting it was legally binding in TRNC law and couldn't be challenged.



In the ensuing court case, we lost - along with half our life savings. This example of 'roguery', nepotism and conspiracy belies belief!



Sorry, but if I continue with the details, I'll start p1ssing blood again.....



I trust this answers your question.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
11/07/2010 17:16

thanks for that. it really is unbelievable and when sometimes I hear people say you shoulkd have done your homework or what do you expect buying in a foreign country the blood certainly starts start running...



I like many others do not want to be negative but if I could stop one more person going through the problems I would. I just wish everything that is coming out now had been told to me by solicitors on purchasing. At least you can then make your own choice and take the risk and then its down to yourself but many of us or should I say most of us had no idea this system was so corrupt yet its our only redress to go throught the system.



I am pleased for the people its worked for but a lot of that has been luck as noone knows when someone comes out of the woodwork to get a memorandum and back to the same thing whilst in the hands of the builder we are at their mercy end of

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
12/07/2010 10:25

honestie/msg 17:



'Should have done your homework!'



Only a complete ignoramus would be naive enough to utter such a statement - they have no idea, or conception, of the loopholes of this [deliberately?!] inadequate 'legal' system, or the conniving methods of the advocates [who have publicly stated that they have 'no duty of care to their clients'] and a judiciary unwilling, or incapable of enforcing judgements for restitution in cases 'won' by foreigners.



Of course, with such nepotism at every level, what else can anybody expect?



Currently, foreigners can only expect to be 'cash cows to the slaughter'!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
12/07/2010 10:49

coolrob, it's down to who originally owned your property, For example, whether they were solvent and honest. In my case it was a dead man whose estate was worth a great deal of money. This meant that he wasn't going to con me or go bankrupt. Mind you once I'd paid for the property up front the executor lost interest in doing the paperwork. There is a lot of wisdom in dealing with individuals, rather than companies, holding kocans ready to be transferred once PTP is granted. Individuals who are prepared to wait a few years because you insist NO KOCAN, NO MONEY!