When will it be no border fro m south to north?

katjusha


Joined: 21/06/2010
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 02:36

I heard the governments of north and south want to make no border for crossing from one part of the island to another even if they are not reunited, is it true?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 03:04

Privet Olga !



hmm where to start?



a GC will tell you "there are no borders in Cyprus - just the Mediterranean Sea ..."



The UN will say there are no borders - just a check-point on the UN negotiated cease-fire line of 1974



Some ( most ?) on here will say there is a 'border' Does Russia/ Ukraine / Belarus think there is a 'border' ....? Nope...



As far as the EU are concerned they are waiting for a settlement and the EU regulations on 'freedom of movement' for EU citizens and their families ( even if non EU citizens) should apply . for now they regard the Green-Line ( UN brokered cease-fire line of 1974 ) as a place where the recognised government officials can implement EU immigration laws - so THEY don't regard the green-line as a 'border', either..



This is a MUCH more difficult question to answer then the Disney one :D







Poka ....

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 04:44

..........,politics stink!



do you have a passaport check every time you cross over from one side to other? YES

do you have random luggage check and limitations when crossing over from one side to other? YES

Ddo you have to have seperate insurance for your vehicle when you cross over from one side to other? YES

..................



SO,would someone please be kind enough to tell me what we actualy CROSS OVER other then BORDER?

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 06:12

when you a searched at this area and have your legal requirement of 200 cigs taken from you ......does this comply with eu law?



or is it a rule to disrupt anybody from north to south?



i lilke answers and questions from message 3



spot on yorgozlu



kav

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 07:05

Yeah... if it looks like a border, make a sound like a border and smells like a border......

hds.trnc


Joined: 26/05/2009
Posts: 175

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 08:30

of course its a border...hope it remains..

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 08:35

When the UN pull out this year there will be a border.







Patientia est a donum superum

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 09:31

Hi mmmmm,



Msg 2.

"a GC will tell you "there are no borders in Cyprus - just the Mediterranean Sea ..."



Strictly speaking there are 2 borders in Cyprus - the one between TRNC-SBA and RoC-SBA.

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 09:55

If the country unites and the "crossing points/borders/buffer zones and SBA land" all dissapear into the past, with GC's and TC's singing in the streets and dancing the nights away, whilst living in complete peace and trust of each other - damn, just had to duck another of the them flying pigs - I have a small question:



What will happen to all the police and customs officers that are currently employed to hassle both communities with complete indifference to race, age, sex and ethinticity?



There is nowhere for them to be gainfully employed - not that there is now anyway - and they could not be absorbed into current airport facilities. There must be thousands of them that would be immediatley out of work.



Not that it would have any bearing on the results of a peace deal of course!!!!!!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 10:09

Dear Yorgo

re msg 3



Politics may stink



But :



1/ I show proof of ID to a TC to cross north - not even a passport - Mr Denktash said 'See they recognise our [my italics] 'border posts' .... Folks just want to cross



Going south - this is the first opportunity of RoC immigration to check the validity of someone to enter the EU - as the recognised govt does't exercise effective control at Ercan / Tymbou and the ports at Kyrenia / Famagusta - the green-line is the first place compliance can be checked..



2/ Luggage checks - as per 1/ the RoC are implementing EU Customs procedures at the first place they can.



3/ 'Insurance' - you mean EXTREMELY basic third party only 'cover' - with a potential legal nightmare re ensuring payouts ? - The UN / EU brokered this - originally the RoC wouldn't recognise the right for TC 'reg'd' cars to cross - denying EU citizens freedom of movement is NOT an option.



kavenkoy - I have answered this q many times, before.. it BORES folk..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 10:15

re 8

'TRNC' Vaughan



>>Strictly speaking there are 2 borders in Cyprus - the one between TRNC-SBA and RoC-SBA.<<



I refer you to my message 10.. The SBA are merely implementing the Green -Line regulations on behalf of the RoC .



This is NOT my opinion - it is FACT



from the EU DIRECTIVE - must comply above national law



"It defines the terms under which the provisions of the EU law apply to the

movement of persons, goods and services across the Line between the areas of the Republic

of Cyprus in which the Government of the Republic of Cyprus does not exercise effective

control and the areas in which it does."



http://ec.europa.eu/cyprus/documents/information/glr_report.pdf



The same regulation ensured any EU citizen - including those entering via the northern ports of entry not recognised by the RoC could enter ( previously that wasn't possible)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 10:17

re 9 Waddo



they will all be gainfully employed elsewhere - in Cyprus - having a job in the civil service is pretty 'safe ' ;)



Seriously, I expect there'd be a BIG increase in Tourism - esp in the 'north'

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 10:23

Hi mmmm,



What documentation do you show when crossing from RoC into an SBA? I don't believe the border between Akrotiri SBA and RoC forms part or parcel of the green line.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 12:42

re msg 13



'TRNC' Vaughan



1/ SBA - RoC - Documentation shown : none - there is no manned check point.



2/ >>I don't believe the border between Akrotiri SBA and RoC forms part or parcel of the green line.<<



Correct



Not sure what you are getting at..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 12:44

Part of EU report re the Green Line



In view of the worryingly high numbers of illegal immigrants, the Commission is of the

opinion that the surveillance of the Line between the crossing points conducted by the

Republic of Cyprus pursuant to Art 3 GLR and by the Sovereign Base Area Administration

pursuant to Art 2 (5) GLR needs substantial strengthening. The Commission recommends that

in particular the authorities of the Republic of Cyprus take concrete steps without delay in

order to comply with their obligation as regards the surveillance of the Line as defined in the

Green Line Regulation also in view of the future participation of Cyprus in the Schengen area.

*While the Green Line does not constitute an external border*, the surveillance obligations of

the Republic of Cyprus on the government-controlled side of the Line should be met

effectively while at the same time minimising any hindrance to contacts between the two

Communities.



note the bit between the asterisks

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 12:54

Kav,

40 ciggies is the max fom North to South i think,

Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 14:00

re 18



In 2004 it was only 20 per person over 17



http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexplus!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=en&numdoc=304R0866R(01)



[article 6]





goods contained in the personal luggage of persons crossing the line, including a maximum of 20 cigarettes and 1/4 litre of spirits, shall be exempt from turnover tax and excise duty provided they have no commercial character and their total value does not exceed EUR 30 per person.

raidercruise


Joined: 07/06/2010
Posts: 237

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 14:43

That border will remain there forever....

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 15:13

Hopefully so.. the Med and it's beaches are a major tourist feature ...

DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 120

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 15:15

Carry nothing over the border to the South, let the guards buy their own fags.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 15:21

Hi mm,



msg 14



1. Since when has the border between RoC - SBA and TRNC - SBA been unmanned? Haven't crossed myself for a while but understood there was still SBA police and GC/TC Customs. If there are customs, this suggest that there is no customs union as there is between EU states. It therefore follows that they must be seperate states seperated by a border. i.e. there ARE borders in Cyprus.



2. In your msg 11 you said:

"The SBA are merely implementing the Green -Line regulations on behalf of the RoC ."

I asked what SBA Akrotiri had to do with the Green Line as they are nowhere near each other...

katjusha


Joined: 21/06/2010
Posts: 226

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 15:23

thanks, things would be easier without borde anyway I think and property prices in north cyprus would go up. I heard even taxi drivers are refusing to take you from south to north, just to the border. Is any bus service available to the border from Larnaca airport anyway? I ll need to fly from UK, and flights to Larnaca are much cheaper than to Ercan. I would appreciate any information

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 15:28

.......things WE want to change for our own selfish needs.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 15:31

Privet Olga



You'll need to take a bus to Nicosia and then walk over



http://www.intercitybusescy.com/



or Taxi



http://www.travelexpress.com.cy/IntercityServiceTaxi.htm



Udachi !

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 15:39

Take a GC cab to Ledra Palace and walk across. Then take a TC cab to your destination. On your return a TC cab will take you to LCA.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 15:40

Hi 'TRNC'



I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or I'm missing a trick !



1/ >> Since when has the border between RoC - SBA and TRNC - SBA been unmanned?<<



There isn't a 'border' anywhere as discussed and backed up by an UN/ EU - the SBA are leased from the 'rump' RoC ..



AGAIN - crossing from RoC admin'd zone to SBA - unmanned



SBA - to "area of CY not under effective control of RoC " - you refer to it as 'TRNC' - manned to implement the GL regs.



2/ I said: "The SBA are merely implementing the Green -Line regulations on behalf of the RoC ."



you said[ msg 13] : >> I don't believe the border between Akrotiri SBA and RoC forms part or parcel of the green line.<<



I responded "Correct" .. surely that implying agreement - will you now make something of the fact I didn't dispute the use word 'border' ? ;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 15:50

re msg 21



'TRNC' Vaughan



The Customs procedures at SBA crossing points are dealt with by SBA officials .. these can be GCs or TCs

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 16:08

Who wishes they didn't campaign for MM's re-instatement

jimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 16:37

I don't gooligan and I find this debate far more meaningful and interesting than the one surrounding Raoul Moat for instance.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 16:51

Hi JimmyG



I took Gooligan's msg as being light-hearted - don't worry...;)

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 16:53

Privet Mmmmmm.



You seem to know quite a lot about all this kinda stuff being a bloody foreigner and all that.



Fair deuce !

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/07/2010 17:13

It all goes back to a time when I crossed over to meet our very own Ismet .. we had a great meal and I left a tip.. The Turkish 9 real TR) gent gave us two bottles of wine



We were stopped by the SBA guys with the bottles on full display - they were confiscated .. I protested that the rules were not clear and made a big fuss



Ismet and I got them back -on condition we took them BACK into 'TRNC' :D



From that day on I made it my biz to know what I could / could not bring across !

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
15/07/2010 08:12

mmmmm,



msg 26

You said:

"AGAIN - crossing from RoC admin'd zone to SBA - unmanned"



msg 27

You then said:

"The Customs procedures at SBA crossing points are dealt with by SBA officials .. these can be GCs or TCs"

So are they "manned" or not, albeit by SBA officials acting as customs?



If there are "customs" at SBA crossing points, as you call them, they must be there because RoC and SBA are not in the same customs union, in this case the EU. It therefore follows that they (RoC and SBA) are two different states, one EU and the other non-EU, and EU states share a BORDER with non-EU states.

QED there ARE borders in Cyprus. Your msg 2 "a GC will tell you "there are no borders in Cyprus." suggests that GCs are wrong then?

gbuck


Joined: 29/06/2009
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 23:22

I take it you don't know about the Eastern SBA then? Dhekelia? It has two crossing points to the north. Near Faagusta.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 01:55

6m;



I realise you are the font of all wisdom for things ROC but are you sure the SBA's are leased by the UK?



It's my understanding they are "sovereign" and part of the UK.

RoxyBob


Joined: 13/07/2009
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 06:49

Please stop this dribble. Just answer the question posed in Msg 1. If not just shut up. Don't care whether its a border, green line, custom check point or whatever else you want to call it.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 12:36

Vaughan



What Mark has tried to explain is that the SBA man checkpoints where SBA territory 'borders' with the TRNC and it is possible to cross directly from the SBA into the TRNC e.g. the crossing point at Pyla. Akrotiri is in the 'middle' of the RoC, does not 'border' with the TRNC and therefore has no checkpoints.



http://www.sba.mod.uk/admin_maps.htm



Whilst the Green Line may to all intents and purposes appear to be a border, it cannot be 'legally' descibed as such for the myriad of reasons that Mark describes in his previous posts. Unpalatable maybe to many on this Forum, but 'legally' that is the way it is.



Hope this clarifies any confusion.



Newscoop - Re Msg 35



Correct - HMG retains sovereignty over the SBA's but does not 'own' most the land.



http://www.sba.mod.uk/admin_background.htm



Regards



Paul

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 21:23

6xm will always win the argument that the trnc has no internationally recognised border,

he has researched the legal aspects of its twilit existence for whatever reason



but it may yet have borders of a sort if it can cut the mustard on another definition of what is a state:



for example marx's a body of armed "men" may be considered a de facto state if it has ax raising powers

a clearly defined area of control and operates checkpoints at the edges or border, oops sorry!

its own taxation, policing, education and health systems



putting this emotive topic into a relative context, statehood changes over the long term eg

the usa (native americans) ...and greeks (lost lands of eastern thrace 1923)



mark seems to occupy the moral high ground and I do not question his obvious sincerity,

but allow me to quote simon bahceli in the cyprus mail saturday 31 july:



"...the former tycoon is eyeing...direct trade...this would open the breakaway turkish cypriot statelet..."



andre

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 21:46

remove the murdering greeks from the island altogether and there will be no need for borders ?

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 22:31

there is a border ,on one side is the tc,s and the other the gc,s ,and it will stay ,for now anyway .



so call it what you like ,see it if you wish or ignore it .





musin



long live the KKTC

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 07:27

Rowlo



Please remember that atrocities were committed by both sides. Not all 'Greeks' or 'Turks' are murderers.



Paul

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 08:29

If it looks like a duck and it quakes’ like a duck, it's a duck.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 09:04

re 37 Thanks for responding to 'TRNC'Vaughan and Newscoop ( msg 33 / 42)



I couldn't have put it better.. !



re andre_514 - 38

>>he has researched the legal aspects of its twilit existence for whatever reason <<



Sighs.. Yep and if you actually READ the thread you'd realise that I gain most of my knowledge to get my Turkish wine back from the SBA Police ;) !

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 09:26

message 43



groans...yeh and if you lay off the wine

you will appreciate that only SB's will lose their thread

when the old isolated trnc finally takes to the air

with the coming of direct trade after december 2010,

or as the more wisely knowledgable may well prefer to describe it

"partition made permanent"



andre

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 13:27

msg 37;

Paul;



"Whilst the Green Line may to all intents and purposes appear to be a border, it cannot be 'legally' descibed as such for the myriad of reasons that Mark describes in his previous posts. Unpalatable maybe to many on this Forum, but 'legally' that is the way it is. "



Try crossing the "border" and see what you'll get by using above as a reason.



Whats written by someone on a piece of paper and what actualy goes on in real life are two completly different things.

The so called european/Greek auothorities wouldnt let me cross over the "border" last week with a car with "ZT" (VISITOR) plates on it but also with a VALID GREEN CARD that clearly estates VIN number,engine number printed on it and NO reg.number as well as a UK log book.



So,guys/gals stop kidding yourselvs.



Welcome to real world.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 13:33

It is a demarcation line between two illegal states.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 14:47

Yorgo



I don't disagree with you as regards the 'reality' as I cross the border/buffer zone frequently - I did say 'which to all intents and purposes appears to be a border'. But I am afraid from a legal perspective it isn't.



As regards your incident with the car, can't answer that one but I am pretty sure that Mark may be able to dig up a 'directive' which explains why



Sorry



Paul

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 22:19

re messages 44 mark and 47 paul:



I am certain there is a straightforward answer to katjusha's original question:



i the green line is not recognised internationaly as a legal border

ii at the crossing points there is the appearance of an international frontier,

eg armed guards, flags, customs controls, fierce stares and two cultures daggers-drawn

iii the effective partition of the two parts of cyprus is likely to become even more tangible

as the years pass,the collapse of the "properties campaign" and "direct trade" securing the north

iv none of the above would in any way contradict mark's well-documented account of the

legal and technical status of the "green line"



but without reunification these border checkpoints (oops, sorry) I mean green line checkpoints

are unlikely to fade away in our lifetimes...



unless for any reason you promote the notion of "reunification" however far-fetched this may look



andre

mozgor



Joined: 16/06/2010
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 22:25

OK you lot, from reading the posts above, many of you would like TRNC to stay TRNC so if so, please please help us achieve this by signing the petition on the attached link and watch out for a rally in Lefkosa which is being organised to coincide with one being held in London on Sunday 3rd October. All you ever wanted to know about Cyprus is on the web page - interesting reading and a lot of people have been working very hard in the background to make this happen. So act now and be part of changing history



http://www.trncfreedom.com/