Land Registry Search

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
04/07/2007 09:09

I am currently buying a property in TRNC and have asked my Solicitor what searches have been carried out on my belhalf with the Land Registry and I'm being told that the Land Registry is not currently allowing searches, therefore, I cannot get confirmation of Title of the land or current ownership and have to rely on copies obtained from the builder.



Has anyone come across this recently or know if this may be true

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
04/07/2007 09:35

I would contact Marion at the home buyers pressure group

http://www.hbpg-trnc.net

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/07/2007 12:58

MCSTEVIET,



I was told that its difficult to do a land search because the land registry office pre 74 was in Nicosia. Therefore its difficult to get accurate information about true land ownership. Hence all properties except pre 74 coming under the TRNC umbrella. What title deeds are they and where are you buying?

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
04/07/2007 13:29

Bradus,



We are buying in Lapta and is Esdger land.



MC

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/07/2007 13:45

I think it would be wise to contact HBPG you can email and they usually give a quick reponse. However I think you'll be hard pushed to get this information. Have you asked your solicitor for a copy of your title deeds (kocan) Tapu (Land registry) certified site plan, Bina Rhusati (building License) Sehir Planlama Dairesi (central Planning Office permission) complete technical specification and Architect prepared plans for complete develoment? A good solicitor would have obtained all the above as part of the search process. We requested the above and our solicitor emailed them to us. They do contain some useful information but are of course in Turkish. hpbg give examples on web site so this does help with transaltion.

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
04/07/2007 15:10

Bradus,



Yes I already emailed Marian and received a reply, along the very lines you mentioned. Thanks.



I have now asked the Solicitor for the said Doc's. I await their reply.



Thanks very much for the info and advice.



Regards



MC

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
04/07/2007 15:46

Bradus, noticed how helpfull you are, like to say its comforting to know there are 'Good Samaritans' out there. appreciated.

thank you

p

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/07/2007 18:46

Thanks Pilgrim.

paulnicholas


Joined: 14/01/2007
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 18:17

I was in the process of buying an apartment in Kyrenia when my solicitor sent me this e-mail.

Further to my previous email, we have spoken to the Vendor this afternoon who is unable to provide any evidence to show that the land on which these apartments are being built is pre 1974 Turkish Title.



As the Land Registry no longer makes any definition between the different types of title, this means there is no way for us to independently verify which type of title the land is.

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 18:53

Paul,



That idicates to me that you cannot even verify that the Vendor was even the owner of the land in the first place. Let alone verify the Title.



So what did you do ? Did you continue to buy or not ?



Who was your solicitor?



MC

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 19:46

About 8 weeks ago, an agent told me, that he heard a rumour that the government were not going to make a distinction between any types of land. pre 74, esdeger and tmd would all be classed the same.

I dismissed this comment as being untenable, but reading both your posts (Mcsteviet and paulnicholas), perhaps, they have have implemented it surreptitiously.

I still can't believe it to be true, surely the HBPG would have 'got wind of this', or those in the building trade who post comments here, would have heard of this.



It needs to be verified before one jumps to conclusions, but, iIf we were to assume that it was true, what would be the TRNC governments motives for doing so?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 20:42

'Surreptitious' was not the right word to use as it implies deception.



Forgot to mention, my source also told me that the government were going to rule, that only TC's will only be able to purchase pre 74 land.

Again, this could just be misplaced comments.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 21:02

Paul



If I was you, I would contact Marian at the HBPG and show them your solicitor letter

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 22:09

One way to think about it, it could be good news the governement is makig no distinctions in the class of title deeds. It could mean that the TRNC is moving forward and see's no chance of reunification. Why make distinctions? It only confuses people and creates anxiety.



What you need to check though, is that the builder has been grnated permission to build on the land, or indeed build on the right piec of land.



Also read that the TRNC governemnt is going to fine and imprison (3 years) any TC's who sell their displaced property in the south to a GC

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 22:11

'or indeed built on the right piece of land' - apologies, being sloppy again

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 22:47

Ilovecyprus,



Paul is totally correct in what he was told in that email. This is exactly what I was told by my Solicitor in Girne in April, when we met with him to discuss the purchase of our place.



What I can't accept though, is that the seller of a property cannot produce the original Deed that states what the land is now, OK so the Land registry will only issue one type of Title Deed from now on (TRNC Freehold), but if someone is selling a property and advertising it as Pre-74 or Esdger, then they have to be able prove it and your Solicitor should verify it(as it will be in Turkish).



Or am I missing something.



Anyway I don't know why the Land Registry is not accepting any searches, that's their job isn't it?



MC

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 22:58

Totally agree MCSTEVIET. The seller should have the original deed. There is no reason why they shouldn't. I would be very cautious.

I have no idea about the land registry.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 23:27

MC, Did you contact Marian at HBPG about your situation? If so, what did she recommend?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 23:35

Correct an independent lawyer should be able to tell you the status of your title deed. There are 3 possibiliities.

1. the property has no title deeds(Goes without saying just don't touch)

2. It has a deed with a number prefaced by the letters TRNC

3. It is a deed with only a number.

The commonest is 2 and which is now known and advertised as TRNC Deed. It relates to property or land which was GC owned before 1974. When TC refugees fled from south to north the TRNC government assessed the value of what they had left in the south and gave them points which allowed them to take possession of GC homes as a form of compensation. Their south cyprus properties were then signed over to the TRNC government who continues to hold them pending a settlement. Such properties were also given to the milatary and Turkish settlers as a reward for their services on Cyprus. By putting all deeds under TRNC heading it is now going to be difficult to spot TMD land.

3rd Title deed is pre 74 and this is instantly recognised because it is not prefaced by the letters TRNC and relates to RoC.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/07/2007 23:58

Not sure if this is helpful but as part of the contract we drew up with the solicitor we actually had wrtiten into it that if we discovered the land we were buying was not pre 74 then we would not go ahead with the sale. This was before handing over money. Checking authenticity was the first thing we did before proceeding.

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
06/07/2007 00:48

IloveCyprus,



I'm not the one with no Title.......yet, that was Paul.



Yes I've contacted Marian and she gave me info along the line offered by Bradus in Msg 5 above.



I am waiting for a response and a copy of the doc's from my solicitor.



MC

paulnicholas


Joined: 14/01/2007
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
06/07/2007 10:02

Mcsteviet,



I did not buy that apartment because the price reflected the fact that it was turkish title,i bought a house in Esentepe instead.

My solicitor is Naomi Mehmet who has been brilliant throughout and did not charge me anything for not going through with the purchase of the apartment.

I have to say we bought the house through Remax and Ruby was fantastic.

We have had some bad experiences along the way but these people have more than compensated for that.

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
06/07/2007 11:33

Paul,



Glad it sorted it's self out in the end. We too are using the same Law firm, but Hasan is my man.



I just hope we can sort things out.



Have you received your title yet? and if so, is it TRNC Freehold as they indicated it would be.



MC

paulnicholas


Joined: 14/01/2007
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
06/07/2007 12:15

MC,



Not got title yet,assuming it will be TRNC freehold,it was last year i was sent e-mail regarding title.

To be fair i dont see what Naomi would gain from saying that about the land

registry if it wasn't true.

Like everyone else i am relying on the goverment with the help of Turkey to

protect my interest so i will accept any deeds i get .



Hasan has helped us with other matters,infact everyone we have dealt with in Naomi's office have been great.

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
12/07/2007 15:56

Thanks all for the tips & info



MC

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
22/07/2007 00:49

Just bringing this back near the top of the forum list, as I think this is a subject that needs to be kept alive.



We are still trying to sort our contract....several weeks down the line, mainly due to this Land Registry problem.



I can't see how anyone can prove they own the land they are selling if, we can't get the correct search done by the authorities or get a valid copy of the current title from the Vendor.



MC

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/07/2007 01:48

Hi MCSTEVIET,



Are you still waiting for copies of your Kocani? Has your solicitor got them or are they still with the vendor?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/07/2007 02:05

Hbpg advice is: If you are considering purchasing a property in the TRNC ensure that you receive a copy of all the documents listed below for every property you view. If the person you are buying from (estate agent, builder) does not give you every document then it is advisable not to purchase that property

Copy of the Land Koçan (Title Deed)

Copy of the Land Registry certified site plan

Copy of the Building Licence/Permit

Full set of building plans stamped with the Chamber of Architects & Engineers VIZE

For a development, site plan stamped with the Chamber of Architects & Engineers Approval

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
22/07/2007 21:36

Bradus

I am told and from what I read the Tittle Deed is issued (sometimes) months after the build is complete ?

How can you purchase it this certificate is not issued ??

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
22/07/2007 22:07

Bradus,



I have asked my solicitor to get me copies of all the documents you mentioned, as I have already spoken to Marian.



I am awaiting the outcome, mine you I've been waiting several weeks now and I haven't seen anything yet, mind you that doesn't mean that the solicitor hasn't.



I'll fill you all in when I get the outcome of a meeting he waqs supposed to have with the builder last week.



Thanks



MC

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
23/07/2007 01:44

Hi all,



When I was in NC some months ago I was repeatidly told by my solicitors that

" Dont worry you have to be patient as in NC Things are slower and they take time and you have to wait as it is not like the UK"

Is it just me or do they tell all brits this??

And also this makes me feel more concerned as I feel like I am waiting in the dark unaware of what is happening -if anything is being dealt with at all???



Or have I just picked the wrong solicitor??



See ya D

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
23/07/2007 02:03

Davina,



I don't think you are on your own, I feel the same. I feel I'm asking all the questions that in the UK your solicitor would ask, but then again, you have to be careful.



The feedback seems to me to be very slow, I'm being pressured by the Estate Agent to sign the contract, to which I don't have the answers to the questions I've asked of the Solicitor, to get from the developer. So I've told the Solicitor to talk to the Estate Agent to get himoff my back.



Seems like a vicious circle if you ask me.



MC

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/07/2007 02:15

Hi Turtle,



I followed the recommended guidelines from the hbpg which was to ask for a copy of the Title deeds .My solicitor happily sent me a copy of the deeds within 48 hours of asking. If you haven't got deeds how do you know that the person selling is the legal owner? Surely the solicitor will not proceed until they have seen the deeds as how do they check on bounderies and ownership without them? So requesting to Email a copy should be simple. This does not mean that I will get my deeds until everything is finalised but it just means I can verify some of the information contained within the deed.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/07/2007 02:32

I know how you are feeling but I'm sure many on this site have been through this experience and come out the other side. Fear of the unknown and having so little control because of being so far away is bound to be stressful. Its only natural. But lets put things into perspective. MC you are doing things as you should - it does not seem to me that you are going to leave yourself wide open to do anything rash despite pressure from your estate agent. The property market in the TRNC is slow and its definately a buyers market so you can take your time. Keep up the pressure and continue to ask questions that you feel have not been answered.

Good Luck.