Please sign petition for ex service men

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
24/07/2010 17:48

http://www.ptsdawarenessday.com/petition.php

jamestalbot


Joined: 20/12/2009
Posts: 958

Message Posted:
24/07/2010 17:53

Have signed and sent, they deserve recognition for the traumas they have to go through to serve their country.



Regards



James

billyboy1


Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
24/07/2010 18:13

signed and also pasted it to my facebook page, hopefully more signatures from there....

Rocker



Joined: 24/09/2008
Posts: 384

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 10:41

Thank you, have signed up. Also made otherfs aware.

Rocker

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 11:12

Have signed and will put on my facebook.



Chris

PaulW



Joined: 20/07/2009
Posts: 651

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 11:13

Well, so Uncle Ted is back. Can we expect Kim to post as well Neil.



P

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 12:01

Paul, way why not sign the petition?

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 12:13

Done..and bring our lads home...





Spider.X

birdy



Joined: 21/07/2009
Posts: 154

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 12:20

signed, this is needed.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 17:12

As an Ex Serviceman, I thank all of you who have signed this!!

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 17:41

Signed. and wouldn,t it be brilliant if this succeeds we should all be indebted to these lads

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 18:53

Message 6 Paul,



What has Uncle Ted got to do with this ?



Either sign or not, but make no more stupid comments.

PaulW



Joined: 20/07/2009
Posts: 651

Message Posted:
25/07/2010 19:09

Message 12. First I have signed.

Second Neil Duffy caused a lot of trouble on this board first as Neil & Kim and then as Uncle Ted. Including sending threatening emails to members.



So you keep your comments to yourself, thank you.



Paul

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 10:28

Dony know what you are on about to be honest.



this is to get as many people to sign the petition to help ex soldiers with PTSD so when i go to downing street on the 8th september we can show the PM how many people care.. no hidden agenda



check out the web site



http://www.ptsdawarenessday.com

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 14:12

Signed - a very worthwhile cause.



Paul

janner


Joined: 12/05/2010
Posts: 80

Message Posted:
27/07/2010 14:28

signed and passed on to my email contacts...

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 09:27

back to the top





please sign the petttion it is for a really good cause to get help for all the soilders suffering this mental illness ptsd not here to argue or cause trouble just really want to get this ptsd site out there they deserve our help







thank you kim ,

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 10:25

back to the top

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 12:19

Back to the top,

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 12:21

All signed up mate,

Paul.

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 12:26

thanks paul

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 14:39

To the top.

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 18:01

back to the top

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 18:05

please sign it is such a worthy cause these soilders need our help also this saturday in the daily mail paper mine and neils story , so some of you on here will see what we said from the start is the truth , there are so many of our heros suffering on there own , kim

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 19:42

To the top,

Paul.

jamestalbot


Joined: 20/12/2009
Posts: 958

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 22:08

lets get this back to the top and sign, it's for a good cause.



James

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
29/07/2010 23:56

when you join the army , do you not expect conflict and violence ? I have every respect for these people BUT it is a choice , there is no national service....

Markyboy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 08:06

Msg. 27 Yes apc2010, when soldiers sign the dotted line they know exactly what they are signing up for, serving their country and knowing they may be sent to many different corners of the earth when needed. This thread is not about that, it is about making people aware of the stress and trauma they may recieve whilst doing this. Try to think how a young boy of 18 or 19 feels when he sees his mates killed or maimed in action, how he feels when he knows he has just taken a human life? Until you get into that situation, you cannot prepare for it and it affects different people in different ways. Post traumatic stress disorder is not just suffered by servicemen, it can happen to any of us at any time but what they have to see and put up with makes them more susceptible than most I guess. We all call for our troops to be brought home but let us support them in every way we can whilst they are still there.

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 10:45

please keep signing really need to get this petiton signed , it could make all the difference



kim

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 11:24

To the top please,

Paul.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 13:19

msg 28 i understand that but if you willingly sign up , you must expect to see people killed , they themselves are "there" to kill others.......

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 14:39

apc2010



"when you join the army , do you not expect conflict and violence ? I have every respect for these people BUT it is a choice , there is no national service.... "



I don't see your point.



The petition is to raise awareness of PTSD, a disorder that has been chronically underfunded for years. Yes, soldiers sign on the dotted line and yes, they expect to see people killed and yes, some will experience PTSD.



Are you saying that because they know the risks that they shouldn't receive any treatment ?



Using that analogy, any fireman burned in the line of duty shouldn't have his burns treated...after all he knew the risks ??



What really is your point ????



Regards



Paul

viper


Joined: 14/07/2008
Posts: 119

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 15:08

Signed.....ALL members please sign for this worthwhile cause.



Back to the top







viper

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 16:13

at the end of the day weather they sign up and expect to see conflict , they should also be entitled to the care they deserve for fighting for us and there country , which so many of these soilders are not getting half of them are living on the streets , hreos while in there uniform forgotton when they leave its not right









kim

Markyboy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 16:31

apc2010, as Paul says in message 32, the same applys to Firemen, Paramedics and Police Officers, they all know what they have joined and expect to see but the point is they do not know how they will react after seeing (god forbid) a bad accident involving children, a fire killing many and having to remove the charred corpses of the perished, however, they have the option open to them of counselling and support. At present, when a serviceman leaves the forces, there is no additional help for not only this disorder, but many other inflictions....in the first world war, a soldier suffering from battle shock (previous name for the condition PTSD) would be shot for cowardice as this disorder was not then recognised...was this fair??? Now that it is a known disorder, our tropps, still serving or otherwise should have access to treatment for this no matter that they knew what they were signing up for.....we seem as a country to help every other nationality but our own!!!

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 18:25

they should have access to treatment but a lot of soilders arent getting it , not through there own fault , thats why we are trying to get ptsd out there , and a lot of soilders just arent ready to open up to counselling





kim

Markyboy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 18:36

Totally agree Kim, as an ex serving soldier i believe these guy's who put their lives on the line for us deserve everything we can do for them....keep the post going and hope that more sign the petition.

jamestalbot


Joined: 20/12/2009
Posts: 958

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 18:42

I agree with message 35 Markyboy, I use to work in the Ambulance service and have seen many horrific accidents, I also use to be a Nurse on the A & E dept, and we use to see some terrible things on there, but we use to just get on with our job.



I am sure the servicemen and women, are all proud of what they do, and just get on with it, they deserve better treatment, lets start looking after our own for a change.



Regards



James

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 18:52

thanks guys well the site i have set up on face book for ptsd has so many serving and ex soilders on there and the trouble they are going through just to get there pensions and what they are entitled to angers me , so i will keep going till some sort of change is made , if you want a link markyboy to site to have a look let me know and will send you a link







kim

Markyboy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 19:16

Hi Kim, please send me the link, i'll podt on facebook page. I have quite a few friends & family who have served and some still serving.



James,



Thanks for support, my wife is also a nurse who works in an intensive care unit so I know first hand how you guy's have to get on with the job in hand.

More unsung heros in my eyes.



Thanks



Mark

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 19:19

http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=128377760523327&ref=ts



here it is take a look tell us what you think





kim

Jefferson


Joined: 17/05/2010
Posts: 360

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 19:34

Just signed. As an ex serviceman with a son overseas at the moment i would like to thank you for putting this on the forum.

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 19:41

your welcome also have a facebook group for ptsd helping serving soilders and ex soilders they are all heros





kim

MrsSnakes



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 1100

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 19:49

Neil, signed, regards Mrs Snakes

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 19:50

thank you kim xx

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 20:15

to the top

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 21:01

can we make this a sticky.....

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 21:48

to the top its for a good cause helping our soilders







kim

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 21:54

Back to the top.



Measey.

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
30/07/2010 22:34

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is a natural emotional reaction to a deeply shocking and disturbing experience. It is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation.







Welcome







This is the sister site to my wife Kim´s Facebook page –PTSD Awareness- Families.





She started, and it is Kims aim to help families who are affected by PTSD, both sufferers and their loved ones from all tri service and our loyal reserves and TA soldiers.





“Not All Wounds Are Visible” is something that those with PTSD know only too well.





PTSD is a silent, relentless, torture which can neither be seen, nor understood unless you suffer from it yourself.





Kim and Andrea want to reach out to those with this illness and their families to offer support and knowledge.





For it to be a safe place for people to discuss their fears, their anger, their feelings of worthlessness, and hopelessness.









But more than this..............................if you, or a family member has PTSD,

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 02:06

what i was saying is that e.g you watch a family member die (heaven forbid) , is that not a traumatic event , nobody will give u an allowance , or special care , and to the above yes they should expect to see people killed they joined the army/ services not a holiday club,, the old saying dont do the crime if you cant do the time,......again i have every respect for what they do , but they do it willingly................

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 02:40

My Father lost his youngest brother in WW2 (He was the only regular serviceman in all his family - 9 boys). He was my Uncle John and was about 25 years old and was killed by a German sniper. My Father and his brothers were conscripted; they had no choice. They were called up into the army and the navy, (we weren't posh enough for the air force) .My Dad was conscripted into the army at age 25 (he was 'first in and last out')



Now, I have every respect for all of our service men and women, and I do appreciate the call for understanding of post traumatic stress disorder, but, you join the Armed Forces knowing what you sign up for, surely?



Oh, and Neil, please no more e-mails of your medals. I know you were in the forces - or did you want me to send a photograph of my Dad's WW2 medals? Please do let me know.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 03:04

msg 52 , i agree totally , my point exactly , I am sure many people not in the services could have reason for PTSD, but they agree to do a job ........

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 03:11

and for those who disagree , it saves you "back to the top"..............

Markyboy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 07:58

Hi Kim,



Have joined the site and will post on my wall for all to see.



Mark

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:25

apc2010 and Jeannie.



If you were to read the site and the petition it is not just for service men, it is for all that suffer with the illness, i have met some narrow minded people in my life but you 2 really do top it don't you.



Jeannie. you should have a bit more understanding as your father served..



so when you pass an ex servicemen living on the street do you not give him a pound...... these men and women join up to serve your country, to keep you safe and keep great Britain what it is, they pay there tax and some do pay the ultimate sacrifice. PTSD IS NOT MENTIONED WHEN YOU JOIN UP and believe me its not something you would want, or with your attitudes meet some one that suffers.



Neil



P.S my medals are David Cameron's Desk

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:40

apc and Jeannie



PTSD is a disorder which affects people in all aspects of life, not just the armed forces or emergency services. However, it is probably true to say that they suffer the disorder more than most due to the nature of their jobs. As I have said before in a previous post, I do not understand the point that you are both trying to make. Is it that, because these people decide on a particular career, if they get PTSD then they only have themselves to blame and shouldn't receive any treatment ? Using this analogy, if you get in a car of your own volition and then have an accident resulting in injuries, should these be treated, after all you decided to get in the car and take the risk.



The petition is there to raise awareness of PTSD, either sign it or don't.



Paul (ex Royal Marine)

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:22

well in paul,



all we put this on for was to rais awareness.



http://www.ptsdawarenessday.com

barnaclebill


Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 303

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 14:01

Hi Neil

Signed up a few days ago will now raise awareness on my old Regimental Site. I have been trying to understand where apc2010 and Jeannie are coming from but I am lost for words.It takes all kinds to make a world and they are entitled to their opinion. Keep up the good work.

P.S. Seen a lad in town yesterday,(UK) wearing a T shirt highlighting the plight of those suffering with PTSD

BB

keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
Posts: 2521

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 14:32

I think that 'signing up' to serve your Country KNOWING that there's a distinct possibility that you'll get 'bit's shot off you' is a credit to the men involved - and not just physical 'bits' of course

I think that they are entitled to expect that if the worst happens, then they (or their loved ones) will receive the very best of care. The UK, by all accounts, does not have an overwhelmingly good record in this respect - the moves to close dedicated Military Hospitals not so long ago is just one example of cost-cutting at the expense of those who willingly stood in the front line, and suffered for our benefit

It is not all that long ago that people were shot for Cowardice when they were unable to carry on due to PTSD or 'Shellshock' - thankfully we have moved on from there, & if there is anything at all that can be done to help these damaged individuals, then it SHOULD be done

It's just a pity that we can't go back in time to help those who were left to suffer by themselves...

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 14:41

How exactly does a person serve their country fighting on another's soil?



Especially when they stop counting the innocent civilians being killed. If there are 5 deaths to each incident, that will account for 450,000 innocent deaths by the allied forces?



Not very civilised is it?



Mind numbing.



Peter Fonda had the right idea. If people were allowed to eat their prisoners, no mother would send their child to war and all wars would come to an end.

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 14:44

Keith.. well said mate, i was discharged for PTSD and every day is a nightmare, we are trying our best to help all with the condition and we have also joined up with a charity "soldiers off the street"



we will make a difference but it will take time and we will make sure that no body has to suffer in silence again mate



Neil

Markyboy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:01

Yfred,



They serve their country fighting on anothers soil by reducing the chances of terrorist activities on UK soil....as in the 07/07 Bombings in London.



These extremist terrorists are trained in Afganhistan and funded by the opium trade made from the poppies growing there.



I really don't think we need to get into the argument of why our guys are there or that they new what they were signing up for, the thread is to raise awareness and sign the petition, if you don't agree, you don't need to sign but also, as others have said, no need to try and say that they new what they were letting themselves in for.



Saying that, the more response that the thread gets, good or bad it keeps it at the top and people reading.



Msg 57 and 60 got it right.



Mark

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:34

msg 63 i think you will find terrorism is up because of the invasions into other countries..........

Markyboy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:57

Back to the thread heading, back to the top.

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 17:41

hi markyboy



thank you for signing and everyone else who has , everyone deserve help weather they decide to join they fight for us and our countries and are all heros





kim

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 17:49

YFred



I don't know where you get your numbers from but the number of 'innocent' civilians killed in Afghanistan by the coalition forces is a fraction when compared with the number of Afghans who have been killed by the Taleban/insurgents. The death of any civilians is always very sad, but when the 'enemy' dresses like the civilian population and engages the coalition forces from within civilian compounds, then regretably, from time to time the coalition will cause civilian casualties.

During a recent surge operation in Helmand, the coalition forces warned the civilian population that an operation was forthcoming to give them time to leave the area. The result.......the Taleban moved in and planted 10 times the normal amount of IED's for the coalition forces to contend with. Every day in Afghanistan, over a hundred civilians are killed by the Taleban by suicide bombs or the current trend is to kidnap and behead people.



Not very civilised eh ???



Paul

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 17:55

since the taliban were removed herion production has gone through the roof............

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 21:40

hi could you all keep signing the petition please really need to get ptsd awareness out there





thank you kim

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 21:50

USA just released 90,000 documents documenting attacks on civilians which have not been made public previously. That was assuming an average of 5 deaths per incident. The reasoning being that if there were no deaths, why cover up the incident. I fear the average figure is actually higher than what I used in the calculation.



As to defending UK whilst attacking another country? Way to go. The attacks in London started after UK got involved with the Americans in the east. You are gona have to come up with a better argument than that. Even the attack on the world trade centre was a reaction to Americans shooting down the iranian civilian plane in the persion gulf and American support for israel. Not even an apology We really must stop deluding ourselves.



We must stop sending out troops to their death on pretend defense when it is an attack.

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 08:17

to the top

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 12:33

YFred



Re msg 70



" USA just released 90,000 documents documenting attacks on civilians which have not been made public previously. That was assuming an average of 5 deaths per incident. The reasoning being that if there were no deaths, why cover up the incident. I fear the average figure is actually higher than what I used in the calculation."



Where do you get the figure of 5 deaths per incident - 90000 documents x 5 = 450000 deaths ?



Do you know what a War Diary is ?? Have you ever served in the military ? Have you read any of the reports.



A war diary records all manner of incidents that have taken place ranging from enemy attacks, friendly attacks, natural disasters, political meetings.



I have attached a quick link to just one of the Wikileaks pages - does this tell of the killing of civilians in every report.



http://wardiary.wikileaks.org/afg/sort/severity/high_0.html



Please do your homework and a bit of background reading before you post such utter rubbish.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 12:36

continued....



Whether you agree with the war in Afghanistan is your choice and I respect that, but please don't try to justify your view by using false information, it merely detracts from your argument.



Regards



Paul

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 15:47

please sign the petition



http://www.ptsdawarenessday.com

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 02:02

neil/kim



As you know, Paul (my husband) has signed the petition, and, as you will also be aware, I have posted personally that I have only the greatest respect for our servicemen/women. Indeed, we are both regular attendees at the parades we have for our homecoming service personnel (we live in an area where there are are a number of bases). And, as you so rightly pointed out, Neil, my father was a serving solider in WW2 (who, I should add, like many other servicemen, mentioned very little about his experiences). I know he was in the eighth army and (obviously) served in North Africa, Egypt, etc. I am not saying that the servicemen who served in WW2 underwent the same sort of hardships that our current servicemen have to suffer - 'war' has changed - a little, although not very much, if you think about it. In saying this, I would like to make it very plain that I do not hold in contempt, in any way, shape or form, the sacrifices our armed forces have made.

continued..

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 02:11

However, I do still stand by what I said in that there is no conscription and the choice to join the armed forces is still (as far as I am aware) voluntary. I work with many women whose teenage chidren, having left school with few prospects, are now considering joining-up. There are few choices in the workplace and the women I work with are terrified that their kids are thinking of taking this option. I DON'T BLAME THEM. I would hate it if my son were still a teenager and was considering this. I am being perfectly honest here, I would try to dissuade my son if ever the thought entered his head. In my, very humble opinion, our kids should not be out there fighting anyway. As I say, I've been to a few parades and it's bloody heartbreaking to me to see the youth of these lads and lasses ande not forgetting those friends they've left behind - for ever.



Rant over - I'm glad to have got that of my chest.

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 02:28

Oops - sorry - OFF my chest

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 11:45

Jeannie



Well put and of course you are entitled to your opinion. As far as I am aware nobody on this thread has disagreed with the fact that those who volunteer for a career in the Armed Forces (myself included) know what they are volunteering for. Of course they do, media coverage of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been and continue to be extensive. However, your message number 52 seems to infer that because 'they' know what they are letting themselves in for, then they shouldn't expect to receive treatment for the after effects. Thankfully, not everyone suffers PTSD as the result of traumatic events but for those who do, surely you don't advocate that they should be discarded just because 'they knew what they were getting into' ? If this is your opinion then again, I use the analogy of a fireman being injured in the line of duty - should he/she be treated as they knew what they were volunteering for ??



Regards



Paul

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 12:40

Im going to rattle a few cages now!



I am an ex serviceman with over 30 years experience of serving on 9 Operational areas.

PTSD was not around until the larger Army was involved in the First Gulf War-0 where was the PTSD for Ulster, Falklands and other conflicts before that. Answer no where, after the Falklands my Unit 2 Para had to complete a basic 2 page tick questionaire and we never heard the results.

Yet 9 years later we come back and are hit with reams of paper and so called experts and the Gulf War was only 4 days long for most!!!!!!

Members of other like minded units (yes even the marines agree with us on this) have the notion that the craphats were looking for compo!!

I will ask and would like to know the percentage of non Airborne/Commando personnel who claim PTSD against those from them!!

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 13:04

Ang



As an ex Royal Marine I reluctantly have to disagree with you on this. Fair(ish) point about the Gulf War, but I think Iraq and Afghanistan are totally different conflicts to the likes of the Falklands and Ulster. The sheer number and severity of the engagements experienced in Afghanistan, coupled with the almost daily encounters with IED's and the subsequent horrific injuries are far in excess of those that most of us typically experienced in the aforementioned conflicts. The coalition forces are also dealing almost daily with the aftermath of attacks on the civilian population. I have no doubt that 'some' will try it on in an attempt to gain 'compo' but I sincerely hope that these few do not divert attention from those who are unfortunate enough to experience this debilitating disorder.



Just my opinion of course



Regards



Paul

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 13:14

Paul,

I have served in Iraq and Afghanistan as both a member of HM Forces and as part of the 'Security Circus'

I also would like to point out how short peoples memories can be of Ulster and the IED's, I think you will find that more soldiers were killed in Ulster from IEDs than in Afghanistan and where is all the publicity for that!



Yes our lads deserve our full backing and as all ex serviceman this comes without a thought as we are loyal and honest toilers who have done our time.



I still fail to see what the main fuss is about with PTSD as what can be worse than hand to hand fighting , Clearing the area after Warrenpoint, seeing a village and inhabitants murdered and destroyed by the West Side Boyz in Sierra Leone, the Srebcincia atrocities- done by fellow Europeans! All these were done under the threat of explosive munitions around.

All I am basically saying is that it is amazing how this PTSD rears its ugly head when the larger Army are involved!!

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 13:37

PSTD has probably been around for centuries but has only been recognised as such in recent years. I had an uncle who fought in the navy in WW2 and he came back a total mental wreck from the guns on ship. He then was left to pick up the pieces, there was not the recognition of the condition so they got no help.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 13:52

The fact that they are not counting Civilian deaths should be ringing alarm bells nevermind the 90000 documents never seen before.



I cannot answer your question about me and the army. I could be prosuceted. Have you not signed the bit of paper that says you will not see anything?

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 14:09

Ang



Fair point, but the point that I am trying to make is that the frequency of these type of incidents is much higher than it has been in previous conflicts. Just last year alone there were 7500 IED detonations in Afghanistan and this figure is expected to rise. Over 1300 UK forces have been wounded in action in the past 4 years. Even when the 'Troubles' were at their worst, they couldn't compare to these numbers.



I was extremely sceptical about the existence of PTSD but an old friend of mine who has served for over 35 years has been at the forefront of attempts to lessen the effects of 'traumatic' incidents for a number of years. The fact that these are now adopted theatre wide demonstrates that the UK military recognise that something needs to be addressed.



Personally, I think that PTSD has always been there (shell shock), but has only recently been acknowledged and is now being treated. It also doesn't recognise your cap badge



Regards



Paul

Markyboy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 14:13

Just a little analogy here but is it fair to say that the temprement of the troops serving 20 years ago is different to that of those serving today??

Not wanting to diverse from the subject at hand but as an ex crap hat, I know that the Paras and Marines are a differnent breed of soldiers and a cut above the rest...they are after all, the elite of the British Armed Forces.

Do you think that the training our troops get today and society as a whole has a bearing on this?

I still think that PTSD is an issue and has been around since WW1 but was just termed then as shell shock and more recently (20 years ago) as Battle Shock, it was even refered to in the Soldiers handbook issued in basic training.

What I'm getting at is when I went through basic, it was 12 weeks and then onto trade training, my Senior NCO's in my first unit always said we had it easy as things were tougher when they went through basic??

I also had the privelige to serve with a CSM who was a Para and had seen tbc...

Markyboy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 228

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 14:24

Continued... active service in the Falklands, he would always relay stories of what happened there, much of which i didn't fully believe as they were outlandish until I read the book 'Green eyed boys' which had many of the incidents he referred to in it.

What I'm getting at is do you think our training techniques are inadequate for our troops to mentaly get through these conflicts they are now facing.

As far as I know, P Company and The Cammando Training has changed little over the years which is maybe why they suffer less...or do they??



Please don't slate me on this, it is just a discussion point...

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 14:26

YFred



As I suspected, you are unwilling or unable to answer my question.



I will answer yours:



Yes I have signed that piece of paper, but nowhere in the Official Secrets Act does it state that I am forbidden to debate what is in the public domain.



Also, that piece of paper does not prevent you from stating whether you have served in the Armed Forces otherwise all those brave old people who parade at the Cenotaph every Nov 11th could find themselves arrested. All ex servicemen are also issued with a Veterans badge which they are encouraged to display proudly, hardly a requirement to 'hide' the fact that you have served.



Methinks that you are copping out.



Finally, civilian deaths are being counted but I have no doubt that more are being killed than is officially reported. That said, the number of civilians killed by coalition forces (either accidently or deliberately) is very small compared to those that have been killed by their fellow Afghans (Taleban).



Paul

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:20

Paul,



you don't mean like the report the yanks made the other day and concluded that no civilian casualties whilst the locals were saying 44 civilians dead?



Also, can you really separate the deaths of civilians by allies with others just because the final act was carried out by a local, the allies have no responsibility for it?



Are you aware of the The Lost Legions of Rome trying the civilise the Germanic tribes?



History should be learned before the so called "civilised world unleash their un-civilised methods to civilise the descendents of Genghis Khan". They have a fantastic philosophy on war. It should be taught at sandhurst.



The Russians learned it the hard way; let’s see how long it takes the west to learn the same lesson. My hunch is another 4 years, before they give in. With 1000 Brits and 5000 Yanks killed.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:45

YFred



read my post again:



"civilian deaths are being counted but I have no doubt that more are being killed than is officially reported"



I only differentiate between those killed by coalition forces and those by the insurgents because the deaths caused by the coalition usually make headline material whereas the daily suicide bombings by the Taleban which cause significantly more casualties barely raise an eyelid. Take today for example - 5 children killed by a suicide bomber targetting an Afghan official, will this hit the front pages ??



Your last point I cannot disagree with, although I believe that there is still the scant possibility of a solution albeit via an 'agreement' with the Taleban and not by military victory over them.



Anyway, back to the original thread. Sign the petition



Paul

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 18:21

Good debate at the end there and very interesting.

I respect what all the youngsters are going through now and agree that there are a lot more IED's than in Ulster- but you have better training, methods to detect, and you know they are going to be there- unlike on a country road in your own country!!

This bullshit about the Official Secrets Act and you cannot talk or discuss is bollocks. Point above about ex members showing their colours with pride is a very good example.

All the OSA is is to stop you complaining/exagerrating to the PRESS and there is a warning about legal action, however never seen it enforced. Also if you were classed as PV or above then you have something worth telling but most mere mortals never get to that classification.

Just last week Generals Dannat and Jackson were discussing the Iraq War in Public- do not see the Gallows being prepared there!!!

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 18:54

can i just say thank you for siging those of you who have buts lets not get in to arguements over it , or they may close the thread ,



kim

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 20:25

Good luck for September Neil,

Paul.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 20:34

Neil/Kim



No arguments here, just healthy debate



Paul

PaulW



Joined: 20/07/2009
Posts: 651

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 11:11

Here is Neil's story



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1299730/Have-medals-Mr-Cameron-Veterans-protest-No10-slashed-benefits.html



P

Rogerdodger


Joined: 24/04/2008
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 16:02

Signed today, as an ex serviceman, been round the block, done my fair share, and seen the effects is has had on friends and other squadies, and other servicemen and women.





RD

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
05/08/2010 04:56

good debate , back up

neilduffy


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
05/08/2010 10:45

please keep signing kim