Tea and toast at the talats.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
29/07/2008 23:24

Shock horror probe,

The old kid Christofias has been invited round to the Talats on Sunday afternon for tea and rock cakes.If this meeting takes place it would make him the first president of the Cyproit republic to visit the so called "occupied areas",

Paul.

graham


Joined: 20/10/2007
Posts: 397

Message Posted:
29/07/2008 23:34

Story here in paper



http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/default.asp?smenu=69&sdetail=4377&wpage=1&sc=2350



Graham

Chris


Joined: 26/03/2008
Posts: 454

Message Posted:
29/07/2008 23:38

Lets hope it does not turn into a bun fight!



Chris

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
29/07/2008 23:39

He is not the president of the Cypriot republic.



He is the president of the Greek Cypriot republic.



Even the flag they use was made by a TC.



But the national anthem is the Greek national anthem.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/07/2008 23:52

Doger,



As a purely political gesture, to help hasten an amicable settlement, I would serve him black pudding!



Oh come on!, what else did you expect me to say!



wyn

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 00:52

Alasian



He is the democratically elected President of the Republic of Cyprus in the eyes of the rest of the world, except Turkey.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 01:18

Stubs, Republic of Cyprus lived between 1960 and 1963 and was formed of the two politically equal nations of cyprus the GCs and TCs.



The GCs forcefully kicked us out of the Republic in 1963 and rejected our appeals to return back until 1974.(See Klerides/Denktas letters, See Dr. Ihsan Ali's memoirs)



Currently, the terrorist regime that calls itself republic of Cyprus is nothing but a GC administration.



Here are very simple examples that will even be enough for a complete ignorant about Cyprus problem to get going:



1)If the organisation in South was Republic of Cyprus, its national anthem would not be the national anthem of Greece. Any arguments about this?No, I thought so.



2)Had the illegal organisation in South been Republic of Cyprus, Turkish would have become an official EU language. As Turkish was an official language of the Real Republic of Cyprus. Is Turkish EU's official language? No, I thought so.



3)Had the administration in South been the real Republic of Cyprus, with the political equality of TCs, Would a Kurdish Foreigner Terrorist be given the Republic of Cyprus ? NO,



Here is the photo,



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Cypruspassportofocalan.jpg



Can you explain this? No, I guessed so.



4) Christofias is nothing but the elected leader of the GCs, no more, no less.

Who says so? One of the two equal owners of Cyprus, The Turkish Cypriot Nation. Even if you persuaded the WHOLE world including Turkey with your lies, we would not yet give up our right to equal ownership of Cyprus.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 01:31

Correction 3)... Republic of Cyprus citizenship

littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 08:34

Comrads comrads you should all know that brothers educatedin Moscow With poltical leanings will always seek mutual glory to show that the cause works.



Remember animal farm........... It is true the rest of the world has showncommunisam does not work but the one thing about brothers Talat and Christofias they will not stop trying to show it can work in cyprus.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 12:08

Who saw the invite in CT to Talat's daughters' wedding at the Merit.



Obviously panicing about not getting re-elected next year. Do not forget if you do go you have to queue to give the couple money and then you are shown the door!!!!!!!



Certainly a good comrade.



As for our GC friends above, who cares what the rest of the world think it is time their minds were altered and stop listening to Greek & GC rhetoric.



Interesting, anyone visiting the south count the number of times you see the RoC flag flying. Unlike the proud TC who fly the TC flag alongside the Turkish flag, the majority of flags you will see are Greek on other side. That certainly tells me something!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 17:46

Alasian



I could post many links from the UN etc about how the Christofias administration is the only recognised government of the Republic of Cyprus. The northern part, according to many resolutions passed by the UN, is still "under occupation". Their words, not mine.



As there are quite a few Turkish Cypriots who reside or work in the ROC they where entitled to vote. Was it not the case that a candidate as in one of the wards was in fact a Turkish Cypriot woman?



It is obvious that the TRNC is under the control of Turkey. No decisions can be made with regards a settlement without the backing of the Turkish military. Why doest Talat give back Varosha to its rightful inhabitatants? Is it because it is not his call but Turkey's?



As for Turkish not being an official language of the EU this is a mistake. Turkish is on the Euro coins, on warnings on the cigarettes bought in the south.



Did Cyprus ever have its own "national anthem" or has it always been the Greek one?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 18:59

Politically motivated or not, it's a great gesture that Talat has invited Christofias over for a family do after his daughter's wedding. That kind of gesture sends the subliminal message to the people on both sides that all Cypriots are humans like nothing better than to get together (as long as the troublemakers and nationalists are marginalised out of the picture where they belong). If the leadership can do it then so can the people and this will be in everyone's minds come the negotiations in September. Who can imagine this ever happening 10 years ago between the right-wing diehards Denktas and Clerides? Stick the Bob Dylan on - The times they are a changin'.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 19:43

Thanks Paul



This seems like a very significant event to me. Ultimately the two sides are likley to be polarised on prominent issues, however the behaviours from the leaders are setting a congenial and concilitarory tone, which many lay TC's and GC's may unknowingly feel compelled to mirror, and this may have a decisive bearing on how people vote on judgement day.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 20:24

hi guys

does this mean that they recognise the north exsists ,becouse according too

the rest of the world there is no north

just a thought

musin

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 20:32

It's neccessary (and convenient) to give it some visibility if one is to bargain with it. God forbid no, we can't recognise it, thats going way too far

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 20:43

Stubs, please answer the clear questions:



1)If the organisation in South was Republic of Cyprus, its national anthem would not be the national anthem of Greece. Any arguments about this?



Ofcourse the Real Republic of Cyprus' national anthem was not the Greek national anthem.



The Illegal Republic of Cyprus' national anthem was made Greek National anthem after the occupation of ROC by GCs in 1963.



Ofcourse Cyprus can never have and never had the Greek National Anthem as we the TCs will never allow this as one of the TWO equal owners of Cyprus.



2)Had the illegal organisation in South been Republic of Cyprus, Turkish would have become an official EU language. As Turkish was an official language of the Real Republic of Cyprus. Is Turkish EU's official language?



Turkish was an official language of the Real Republic of Cyprus that existed between 1960 and 1963.



If the illegal terror regime in South was ROC, why hasnt Turkish become one of EU's official languages? Hint: GC side did not ask for this from EU



Please read and learn before discussing Cyprus problem with a Cypriot.



Here is a link for you to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union



I dont see Turkish in the above?



3)Had the administration in South been the real Republic of Cyprus, with the political equality of TCs, Would a Kurdish Foreigner Terrorist be given the Republic of Cyprus ? NO,



Here is the photo,



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Cypruspassportofocalan.jpg



Can you explain this? No, I guessed so.



4) I can show you many UN resolutions recognizing Slobodan Milosevic as the Yugoslavian President despite the massacres that were taking place in Yugoslavia.



Adolf Hitler, and Nazi Germany was recognised by the whole world, until 1938.



The apertheid regime in South africa was recognised after late 1980s.



The most important thing is one of the TWO EQUAL owners of Cyprus do not and will never recognise your Republic as the Cyprus Republic.



As we are one of the two EQUAL founders of Republic of Cyprus, this makes it not existing.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 20:53

I agree with PtePike, this is a very good gesture by President Talat.



One of the major problems, is despite north Cyprus being non-religious, actually one of the least religious European nations, among with Sweeds or Finns, the South to the Contrary is the most religious nation in Europe.



They are virtually ruled by the church which affects every decision of theirs.



For example, the current education minister in South Cyprus, is the first in GC history to be appointed without Churches' approval.



For us the TCs, this sounds like a joke but in South this is a reality.



Add to these the fact that the current archbishop of GCs is an extremist.



Despite all this, we now have a comparatively good possibility of having the Cyprus problem solved, more than ever since 1963.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 21:17

"1)If the organisation in South was Republic of Cyprus, its national anthem would not be the national anthem of Greece. Any arguments about this?

Ofcourse the Real Republic of Cyprus' national anthem was not the Greek national anthem.

The Illegal Republic of Cyprus' national anthem was made Greek National anthem after the occupation of ROC by GCs in 1963"



What was the original Cyprus national anthem? Why do you as a Cypriot not lobby politicians in the south to change this.



A quick check via google gives me the words of the National Anthems of both Greece and Cyprus whilst they are similiar they are not the same.



English translation of Cyprus National Anthem



I shall always recognise you

By the dreadful sword you hold,

As the earth, with searching vision,

You survey, with spirit bold.

'Twas the Greeks of old whose dying

Brought to birth our spirit free.

Now, with ancient valour rising,

Let us hail you, Oh Liberty!

Now, with ancient valour rising,

Let us hail you, Liberty,

Now, with ancient valour rising,

Let us hail you, Liberty!



English translation of the Greek National Anthem





We knew thee of old,



Oh, divinely restored,



By the lights of thine eyes



And the light of thy Sword



From the graves of our slain



Shall thy valour prevail



As we greet thee again-



Hail, Liberty! Hail!



(repeat previous two lines three times)



scource : Lyricsondemand.com



What was the original Cyprus national anthem then?

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 21:23

"2)Had the illegal organisation in South been Republic of Cyprus, Turkish would have become an official EU language. As Turkish was an official language of the Real Republic of Cyprus. Is Turkish EU's official language?

Turkish was an official language of the Real Republic of Cyprus that existed between 1960 and 1963.

If the illegal terror regime in South was ROC, why hasnt Turkish become one of EU's official languages? Hint: GC side did not ask for this from EU

Please read and learn before discussing Cyprus problem with a Cypriot"



I believe it is a mistake by the EU that Turkish is not an official language of the EU. Having said that Turkish is also on Euro coins and on the warnings on cigarette packets in the south.



I have spent a lot of time in the company of Cypriots over the years and do have a wealth of depth on the subject. Because i am non-Cypriot it gives me some advantages being that I can look at the Cyprob more objectively without being blinded by prejuduces on all sides. Unfortunately others can not.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 21:28

"3)Had the administration in South been the real Republic of Cyprus, with the political equality of TCs, Would a Kurdish Foreigner Terrorist be given the Republic of Cyprus ? NO,

Can you explain this? No, I guessed so."



I can't explain this any more than you can. It is a hypothetical question. Also given the fact the the TRNC has harboured criminals and still continues to at this stage and given Kimlek cards to one high profile one (Gary Robb) and even Asil Nadir spring to mind.



Those in greenhouses really should not throw stones

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 21:36

Just an observation. It's interesting that Stubs, Susanne and PP all visit this site at the same time, after some absence.



As I say, just an observation, probably has no significance.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 21:36

"4) I can show you many UN resolutions recognizing Slobodan Milosevic as the Yugoslavian President despite the massacres that were taking place in Yugoslavia.



Adolf Hitler, and Nazi Germany was recognised by the whole world, until 1938. The apertheid regime in South africa was recognised after late 1980s.

The most important thing is one of the TWO EQUAL owners of Cyprus do not and will never recognise your Republic as the Cyprus Republic.

As we are one of the two EQUAL founders of Republic of Cyprus, this makes it not existing. "



Robert Mugabe is still the recognised president of Zimbabwe who is still responsible for attrocities against his own people today.



I'm afraid that your views are blinded on the ROC. Many of your fellow countrymen do not agree with your sentiments hence the reason so many fly to Larnaca, work in the ROC and pay taxes to what you call an "illegal government", shop at Orphanies or Alphamega, and there are some who also live in the ROC.



You view the ROC as something which does not exist however what is undeniable is that the ROC administration is recognised as the only official government of Cyprus. You can make all the claims you want about you not recognising the ROC administration but the fact still remains that the UN, the EU and almost every other country in the world only recognise the ROC government as the only government of Cyprus.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 21:40

Alasian



I have answered your questions as much as I can so maybe you could be kind enough to answer mine.



In your opinion why does Talat not give Verosha/Maras back to its rightful owners?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 22:06

ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 22:15

Hi all,

I wonder if Talat will be mother.Seriously though it has to be seen as a god kind gesturre by Talat who i also understand invited the president of the g.c. republic to his daughters wedding as well.



Stubs,susanne and pikey,you speak with great passion and add to any debate that you enter into,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 22:19

stubs



it is in the hands of the rightful owners or should i say back in the hands of the

rightful owners

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 22:45

It ia good gesture newlad

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 22:48

Musin



The Turkish Military have NEVER owned Verosha/Maras.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 22:57

I agree with private pike and aslan this is an excellent offer by pres. talat:

it is the sort of confidence-building gesture we need from these two leaders,

as well as from the other six hundred thousand people living on the island



on a completely irrelevant note,

the south african national anthem (nkosi sikelele' i africa) uses a well-known

all-african hymn hybridised with new words in english

the yugoslavian anthem (let's go serbs!) has similar music to poland's

the japanese anthem melody was composed for them by an english officer

in the nineteenth century but the lyrics were created by the japanese

the israeli anthem ha'tikhva uses a "very similar" melody to m'vlast by smetana

america's anthem was originally an eighteenth century english drinking song

and god save the queen was to the austrian tune, good emperor franz-jozef



andre

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 23:09

stubs

how far back into history do you want too go,anyway give me one reason

why we should what will they give us ,what have they ever given us apart

from grief

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/07/2008 23:20

and why do you ask this question is it relevant

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 00:37

Musim



Feel free to go back to establishment of the Republic of Turkey who's army currently have Maras/Verosha fenced off.



Remind me when Maras/Verosha belonged to the Turkish military

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 00:44

ILC: "Just an observation. It's interesting that Stubs, Susanne and PP all visit this site at the same time, after some absence.



As I say, just an observation, probably has no significance."



You hit the nail on the head with your final sentence. This is the time of year those of us with young kids tend to go away for a family break. This is the case with me and for all I know Stubs and Susanne also. You don't think I'd be on the BBs if I wasn't already seated at the PC anyway, for chrissakes??

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 00:50

you are right PP. It's probably just a coincidence. These things do happen

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 00:59

Newlad: "Stubs,susanne and pikey,you speak with great passion and add to any debate that you enter into,



Paul."



Cheers for that, matey. Personally I can't just ignore a place with as much assets and potemtial as Cyprus being reduced to a punchbag for closet racists, ultra nationalists and the selfish ignorant - many of whom encompass all three features.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 10:03

Pikey,

There is always two sides to every story.I try to keep an open mind about the Cyprus issue and i am learning things all the time regarding the troubles.Thanks for your comments,

Paul.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 11:39

No probs Paul. I hope they get it worked out for good this autumn. It's no more than the ordinary Cypriots deserve.

dodger



Joined: 29/07/2007
Posts: 1895

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 15:38

Pikey,

Its a big ask mate.But then so was Northern Ireland,

Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 15:42

This may not be as significant an event as we think it is. Talat may just be bringing balance back in to the system. Talat fairly recently refused an informal get together with Christofias (an event organised by the UN). Talat was smarting at the UK signing of the moratorium so he refused. His own personal system in response to that event may have calmed down and he has now decided to address that inbalance. (not that he is likely to be conscious of that, it would be represented in his system as an uneasy feeling).



I think it would be very telling if there was another informal meeting between the two leaders. This would suggest to me that there is real momentum and that trust has really taken hold. I don’t think they will though because in the negotiations they will have to represent their sides formally. Too much informality might raise the anxiety of Nationalists – Papadopolous etc. This might be the reason that Christofias declined the wedding invite. This would be seen as just too much.



Just adding a cautious and different perspective

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 17:08

Just noted that the Cyprus Turkish journalists and the Turksih Cypriot Chamber of commerce are supporting the peace process. Looks like groups are getting behind Talat. If groups like this contunue to get on board then this might create a surge and groundswell of support. It may become increasingly difficult for nationalists to influence the outcome. Do the TC's crave for a better life? Are the TC's heading for a yes vote?

Perhaps General Buyukanit of the Turkish army senses this and has asked the TC's to show caution.



Can the same be said of the South? It could be a much tougher job for Christofias. How are the large groups in the South responding? Can he convince the hardliners like Paps and the church? Christofias has used the word 'fight'.. for the GC's property rights etc. He has got to get a heck of a good deal from the negotiating table. Can he do it, or are the GC's going to vote no? Do the GC's feel they hold all the aces (EU and security council support) and should not concede any ground?



Keep watching this space

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 20:14

Mark,

Good post.I still think that the biggest stumbling block will be the removal of the turkish troops and the involvement of turkey itself though.

Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 20:20

Hi all,

It has been confirmed that Christofias will be heading over to Kyrennia for his tea and black pudding with Talat.No date has been confirmed but it will happen over the next few days,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 20:52

hi guys

just a quick question if and when we go too the polls yet once again and its a

yes from us and once again a no from the greeks,what then does our suffering

go on ,i suggest yes ,becouse its so one sided it stinks.our concerns just falls

on deaf ears,do we really count up to now my answer is no, we are insignificant as far as the world is concerned.

a yes from us a no from the greeks ,then what thats my question.

thanks musin

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 20:57

Musin,

You seem adamant about the no vote from the greek cyps why is this,



Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 21:11

paul

do you really think anything has changed ,ill tell you nothing has changed

and if the greeks do say yes ,whose door do you think they will knocking at first

the british ,they have already tried with the orams.

they threw the british out before and trust me they will again.

beware of greeks bearing gifts

musin

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 21:13

paul

are you a politician, you answered my question with a question

musin

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 21:44

Musin,

You say beware of greeks bearing gifts why is this,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
31/07/2008 21:51

the right honurable paul

you are a politician ,answer my queston and i will answer yours.





musin

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/08/2008 11:47

Musin, a large number of GC's must be open to some type of change otherwise they wouldn't have voted Christofias in. Many GC's may be on the margin and may be easily persuaded to vote yes. I feel that Christofias has to get a very good deal on Turkish troops, settlers and property to sway a large proportion and nothing but total control will probably satisfy the hard liners.

It seems alot depends on what the priests are telling their flock. Being cynical it might go something like 'Send love and best wishes to your fellow cypriots especially your brothers the Turkish Cypriots.....and lets make sure we don't settle for less than having the whole island. God wants us to have the island and promises to give it back to us, amen'



In answer to your question. It would seem that we would be back to square one. Britain has signed the moratorium which I believe means that Britain won't recognise the TRNC should talks fail.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/08/2008 12:05

Musin,



What do you mean "we"? You are English domiciled and presumably have no say or bearing over how the Turkish Cypriots choose to vote. It's their country and future, not yours.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/08/2008 13:37

ARCHBISHOP Chrysostomos yesterday appeared to be mending fences with the government ahead of new Cyprus talks due to start in September.



After a meeting with President Demetris Christofias, with whom he has had a number of run-ins, Chrysostomos said the Church supported new efforts to resolve the Cyprus problem.



The Archbishop said he was satisfied with the briefing he received and with the positions expressed by the President regarding the principles for a Cyprus settlement.



“We wish the President success, because his successes will be to the benefit of our people and homeland,” Chrysostomos said.



Only three weeks ago, the Church leader incurred the wrath of ruling AKEL after he criticised their handling of the Cyprus problem in a speech he made in Athens.



“I know what the people want, but sometimes the people are asleep when the leadership is not vigilant. There is a risk of indifference and everyone has to be on national alert,” he had said.



“Because the entire political leadership accepted a federation and so that the people of Cyprus would not be divided, it is with great pain that the Church and Archbishop accepted a federation.”



He also said it was his right to speak his mind about the Cyprus issue and was not trying to divide people.



Yesterday, he said of his meeting with Christofias: “The President stated unequivocally that will stick with his principles until the end. He will claim the rights of our people and wants a solution that people could easily survive in the land of their forefathers. We agreed on this and I am very satisfied,” he said.



As part of his determination to be informed of developments, the Archbishop met on Wednesday with House President Marios Garoyian, and again expressed his support for negotiations.



He also plans to meet other party leaders, and said he would seek meetings with the ambassadors of the five permanent members of the Security Council, Britain, France, Russia, China and the US.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/08/2008 14:02

if indeed the TC's are living in s**t then the GC's have helped to create this through the embargoes etc.

Unfortunately, the TC's will never know if the TRNC would have really worked if they were granted the freedoms that the GC's have and at the same time had the support from the International community.

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
01/08/2008 22:50

Stubs,

Thank you for your reply and the questions.



1) I have heard from older Cypriots that there was an anthem of the REAL Republic of Cyprus without words.



But the real Republic of Cyprus lived for only 3 years, after which it became the Greek Republic of Cyprus so, it may be difficult to find out the old anthem.



Why we do not lobby in the south to have them change their anthem?



Well, simply because, the organisation in South has nothing to do with the True Republic of Cyprus.



Had it been the Real Republic of Cyprus, 30 % of all Government employees would be TCs.



40% of the soldiers in the military would be TCs.



There would be seperate parliaments for GCs and TCs and a common one.



So, as a big power, as one of the Two Equal owners of Cyprus, ofcourse we would have been able to prevent the ROC from dissolving into GreekROC and having Greek national anthem,etc.



But we were forcefully removed, and the ROC is long dead.



What we can do, is to try to reach a solution based on the political equality of the two nations, and their two equal constituent states.



2)Thanks for accepting that Turkish is not an official language of the EU, there is no more need for arguing about whether the organisation in South is ROC, because had it been so, Turkish as one of the Two Equal Official languages of Cyprus would have become an EU language.



3) We did not give TRNC citizenship to terrorists that were killing the GCs or the Greeks, but the GC leadership has given a citizenship to a Kurdish foreigner terrorist.



In the Real Republic of Cyprus, where we had political equality this could have never happened.



4) There were two equal owners of Republic of Cyprus, hence one of them was forcefully kicked out of the republic in 1963, it ceased to exist any more.



There is a handful of Turkish Cypriots that would recognise the Greek Cypriot Republic as the Republic of Cyprus. But you must know that they are Turkish speaking Greek Racists(hence even the newspaper has white/blue logo colours, as well as an african depicted as a monkey as their logo)



There are racists/extremists in all countries and I would not suggest that you especially as a foreigner be on the same side with racists and suggest that the organisation in South is ROC after all the facts that you have accepted(such as Turkish/national anthem)



Shopping in Southern Cyprus or travelling from there or befriending Greek Speaking Cypriots from there is in no way Recognition of the Occupied Republic of Cyprus as Republic of Cyprus.



I wish, the Greek Cypriots could also be as progressive as we the Turkish speaking Cypriots are, and see things with the same eye. In that case, they would start visiting North Cyprus as much as TCs do visit South, and spending on TC products as much as TCs spend on GC products.



Unfortunately, the GCs have this really big disadvantage of being the most religious nation of Europe(We on the other hand being in the competition for being the least religious nation of Europe)



Until 3-4 years ago, there were only Orthodox marriages in Southern Cyprus, thus a TC who was not Greek Orthodox could not marry a GC who was.



Also, they have just now, for the first time in the GC history had a education minister that was not approved by the Church.



The orthodox religion is apparently not quite humanist as can be seen from the Serbian and GC behaviour towards people of other beliefs.





----



For your question about Varosha/Maras, You should understand as a human being how our feelings are hurt, when after living under embargoes for the last 45 years and we are the ones that are asked to make concessions.



We:

-Cannot export our national cheese Hellim/Halloumi into the EU.

-Cannot fly anywhere directly from Cyprus, or more important for our economy, no visitor can fly directly to Northern Cyprus

-Cannot play eve

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/08/2008 23:19

suzzane and pike

sorry to disappoint you both ,but yes i will be voting ,yes i have a kimlik card ,

yes i have a home in kktc ,yes sorry to disappoint,its a shame you two wont be voting

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/08/2008 23:26

msg 55

susanne

how do you know the t/cs are living in shit ,you have never been too the north

you are far to scared or are you.

you are listening to too much greek propoganda.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/08/2008 23:39

msg 52

mark time holds the key however one thing i am sure of the trnc will stay in

the hands of the turkish we will not bestow it to the greeks .

i welcome the t/cs and the g/cs mixing but only on equal terms ,can the greeks

really accept this ,maybe i dont know ,but if they can then we have a chance.

respect

musin

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
02/08/2008 01:58

susanne

We are not living in s...t as you so rudely put it. It is idyllic, and having

seen the south, I much prefer the north. Have you ever been? Best beaches,

not so crowded or so commercialised. No Ayia Napias! Very little crime also.

Rogerdodger


Joined: 24/04/2008
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
02/08/2008 09:39

Susane, Why do you feel uncomfatable walking adriving arround the trc, it is no different to the Cypriot side or to the UK, their are troops and garrisons in both countries, you are not allowed to take pho's there either, if you are not happy or don't feel safe then go back to the UK, I for one do not have a problem, what ever country you decide to visit or live in you have to except their rules and laws.



You do have a chip on your shoulder, relax and go with the flow, you need to except that people are different, and live different ways and adapt to it.



Chill out girl

littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
02/08/2008 10:48

Did any one go ??

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/08/2008 11:15

MUSIN: "suzzane and pike sorry to disappoint you both ,but yes i will be voting ,yes i have a kimlik card , yes i have a home in kktc ,yes sorry to disappoint,its a shame you two wont be voting."



Hmm. You describe yourself as living in London - where you claim to have started your education as a child some 50 years ago. If you are not a permanent resident in Cyprus you will NOT be entitled to vote - making your input about as valid as the kimilk card.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/08/2008 12:22

Alasian: "There is a handful of Turkish Cypriots that would recognise the Greek Cypriot Republic as the Republic of Cyprus. But you must know that they are Turkish speaking Greek Racists(hence even the newspaper has white/blue logo colours, as well as an african depicted as a monkey as their logo)"



Could you explain more about this, please? Who are these Turkish speaking Greek racists and what is the newspaper?



Also, I understood the accepted version of events is that the TC leadership quit the governent of Cyprus having made the constitution as unworkable as possible and after expoilting the minority checks and balances to their own ends. Try as I might I can't find any credible evidence the TC MPs were "forced out". They were told to pull out by their own leadership as part of their long term strategy of separatism, weren't they?

Alasian


Joined: 11/08/2007
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
02/08/2008 13:37

Southern Cyprus is not the "Cypriot" side but the Greek Cypriot side.



We are as Cypriot as the Greek Cypriots.

----



PtePike,

http://www.afrikagazetesi.net/



We did not quit the government of ROC, but forced to do so under fire from the GC terrorists and the Greek Occupation forces.



In 1963, even the car and office of Vice President Dr. Fazıl Küçük was being shelled by GC terrorists, let alone the ordinary TC civilians or Government employees.



The accepted version of Cyprus' history does not state that we have withdrawn from the government. What you call the accepted versio is the GC nationalist version.



You obviously need to learn more about 1963- 1974 and how we were forcefully kicked out of the republic, so please find below some info and links.



1) Turkish Cypriot judge wins Supreme Court battle



A TURKISH-CYPRIOT judge who was ordered to abandon his job has won a Supreme Court battle to claim unpaid wages and pension money dating back to 1966.



.... Ulfet Emin was forced out of his office on the morning of June 2, 1966 by Greek Cypriot police and moved into the Turkish section of the island despite his protests.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/



I believe for a neutral person even the above single example would be enough.



A situation where a enormously powerful person, a judge, was forcefully kicked out of his position , think about the ordinary TC officials.



2) See the Klerides/Denktas letters after 1967, Denktas at one letter asks for the return of Turkish Cypriot Members of the Parliament to return to be allowed to return to their posts, Klerides replies no, saying that unless the 13 points of Makarios(which would make us a minority in our own motherland) are accepted, he cannot guarantee the safety of the TCs



3)Read the Memoirs of Dr Ihsan Ali, who as a TC devoted his life to the service for GC administration. He mentions at one point how he asked Makarios to allow the Turkish Cypriot officials to return to the government, for which Makarios does not reply at all.



4)Republic of Cyprus would have an army called the Army of Cyprus.



The Greek Cypriot leadership unilaterally dissolved the real army and formed an illegal barbaric terrorist organisation called the "National Guard" which was formed exclusively of the GCs, whereas the Army of Cyprus would be %40 TC, %60 TC.

5)..

6)..

..

199)..













----



Susanne, It is very rude to say that we are living in shit.



Contrary to the life we had during the Turkish Cypriot genocide between 1963 and 1974, we are living a life of paradise, free from the continous threat of getting killed by a GC terrorist and free from getting imprisoned in small ghettos in which we were shelled by GC army.



I believe on the other hand the GCs are living in the middle ages.



What is the church land for example? I believe in any settlement the TC leadership should try to exclude this comedy from North Cyprus.



What will dirty black bearded biggots do with all the lovely Cypriot land?



I could not imagine how living in a state ruled by dirty bearded dark dressed biggots would be.



You can any time start living in the Free From Childish Religious oppression areas in North Cyprus.



There are many open minded GCs who were forced to live in the Free Areas because of the oppression in South.



Here is an example:



Antonis Angastiniotis



http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-7695688617775364591



-----



Susanne and Stubs



Please also refrain from using offensive words for TCs dispersed around the World because of GC embargoes.



They are our brothers and I would like to see a solution to the Cyprus problem where tens of thousands of TCs return to their ancestral land free from the embargoes that forced them away.

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/08/2008 22:39

Excellent post.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/08/2008 23:26

guys, guys...



I love this forum but one thing is a serious problem for me,

and it nearly makes me puke (sorry!!!)



we all go aound with this high and mighty air that we are somehow objective,

that none of us have an "axe to grind"



well chaps and chapesses, i certainly do!

without going into detail I've thrown in my lot with the north

so I am "fairly likely" to take their side

rather than the (equally deserving?) other side!!!



the er... objective facts are these:

yes, prior to 1974 the tc's were treated horrifically,

and were being groomed for ethnic cleansing

yes, many greek cypriots lost their homes and livlihoods in 1974

often through no fault of their own, and most are unlikely to ever return



so:



you have ex-pat people who are loth to give up their "place in the sun"

you have gc's who dream of "returning" to their childhood homes but won't

you have tc's who are "welcome" to live in the south but aren't

and you have turkish settlers who are said to be somehow a "problem"



meanwhile it is tea, crumpets, cucumber sandwiches, fig rolls

and goodness knows what else for the two presidents,

a bizarre but necessary choreography

to solomnise a peace proposal, the bare bones of which

are obvious even now to anyone with half a brain



but which may well fail because of the real fears of all concerned



andre

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
03/08/2008 00:11

msg 65

pike you talk the most utter rubbish without even thinking ,where was

you educated ,try engaging your brain before you post .

yes i will be voting .

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/08/2008 03:48

MUSIN: "msg 65 pike you talk the most utter rubbish without even thinking ,where was

you educated ,try engaging your brain before you post .

yes i will be voting"



Will you be voting legally?

littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
03/08/2008 07:54

Andre



Brilliant post.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/08/2008 13:08

Andre,



Certainly a good post for the gullible and those wishing to support one side's position only. However those seeking a more balanced view can consider the views on the international community via the United Nations:



21. Whilst establishing an independent and sovereign Republic, the Constitution of Cyprus, "unique in its tortuous complexity and in the multiplicity of the safeguards that it provides for the principal minority, ... stands alone among the constitutions of the world" (S.A de Smith, The New Commonwealth and its Constitutions, London, 1964, p. 296). Therefore, it was no surprise that, within less than three years, abuse of safeguards by the Turkish Cypriot leadership led to total unworkability of the Constitution which necessitated the proposals for constitutional amendments submitted by the President of the Republic and which were immediately rejected by the Turkish Government and subsequently by the Turkish Cypriot community.





22. Turkey, in furtherance of its designs based on territorial aggrandizement, instigated the Turkish Cypriot leadership's resort to insurrection against the State, forced the Turkish Cypriot members of the executive, legislature, judiciary and civil service to withdraw from their posts and created military enclaves in Nicosia and other parts of the island. As a result of the foregoing and the intercommunal violence that ensued the Security Council of the United Nations was seized with the situation and by resolution 186 (1964) of 4 March 1964 a peacekeeping force was sent to Cyprus and a mediator appointed. In his report (S/6253-A/6017) the Mediator, Dr. Galo Plaza, criticized the 1960 legal framework and proposed necessary amendments which were again immediately rejected by Turkey, a fact which resulted in serious deterioration of the situation with constant threats by Turkey against the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Cyprus which necessitated a series of United Nations resolutions calling, inter alia, for respect of the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus.





23. The Secretary-General of the United Nations in 1965 described the policy of the Turkish Cypriot leaders in this way:





"The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together, or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities.



SOURCE

http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/0/a99f1cd34153d51780256686005288d9?Opendocument



This was my favourite bit:



Turkey... forced the Turkish Cypriot members of the executive, legislature, judiciary and civil service to withdraw from their posts and created military enclaves in Nicosia and other parts of the island.



Kind of disagrees with claims the TCs were forced out of govenment by the GCs. An oft repeated lie does not become the truth, as they say. Also, it's strange that you describe the editorial staff on Afrika as "Greek racists". After all, being leftist and of the "Cyprus for the Cypriots" position, they often reflect the views of the current Turkish Cypriot leadership. Then again, in the bad old days they got firebombings, death threats and detentions for bravely speaking out against the Turkish regime. My kind of journalists but not yours, it appears.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
03/08/2008 14:23

pike

you dont have a brain ,try disappearing back too were you belong the greek

side .

you know all



i will tell you again for the last time ,now listen carefully you stupid boy

i will be voting ,yes legally annasildimi.........

Kyrenia007


Joined: 19/08/2007
Posts: 88

Message Posted:
03/08/2008 16:17

Bos ver Musin bey,

The only solution is partition. One way or another the majority of these people want to stamp out our ethnicity as Turkish Cypriots. I have wasted enough of my time trying to reason with Greek Cypriot nationalists and I am going to invest more of my time promoting the Republic of Northern Cyprus. I am happy to read the posts in here that support our community and I hope to see much more of it as the well serviced propaganda machine of the South needs to be exposed for what it is.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
03/08/2008 16:53

kyrenia007



you are 100 per cent correct .







long live the kktc and all her people.