Police called after Akfinans Bank late night visit to Kulaksiz 5

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:35

Pauline Read has published an article after Akfinans Bank visited her home last night, changed the lock and then nearly injured her partner whilst leaving the scene. Read more at http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/07/31/police-called-after-akfinans-bank-employees-late-night-visit-to-kulaksiz-5/

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:41

gosh thats so awful.what are they trying to achieve now. was it only paulines house they called on x

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:47

police need to show some back bone here and do their job properly



i normally sing their praises but on this occasion i will not



everyone should boycott this bank right now in protest

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:18

as I understand it, only Pauline's house was targeted but they may have been looking for unoccupied houses only and Pauline's was the first on the list.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:27

Yet again.....wholly unconscionable and seemingly illegal actions from Akfinans bank. If you change the locks again , will you



have done anything wrong? Will they call the police?



I thought that we had been told that The Government had stepped in and sorted out Kulaksiz-5 issue? Was this yet again another TRNC rumour, without any factual basis?.



WHATEVER Cancel your accounts with this bank if you have any conscience!



wynyardman

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:29

The way this (appalling) incident is handled will be very revealing.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:41

Im surprised cause your complaining about those actions . YOU choose to live in this so called country that is by any means illegal (and you know it) with no rules or laws to protect you . I cannot believe you dident see that coming.

keep your heads down there are more coming.

the police dident question the eye WITNESSES why ?

If you have the number plates of the cars why they dident arrest those people ?

why they police dident ask any questions about the "hit and run" ?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:48

I think the Godfather has a hand in this.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:56

Tracer. If you think the dark-side is any better then you need brain surgery.

God help us all if they ever get together. Anyone know where I can get an application to join the Mafia – if you can’t beat them join them.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:58

tracer wrote "with no rules or laws to protect you." That's strange considering I feel safer in the TRNC than I do in the UK. I guess it must be down to how nice Turkish Cypriots are and so there is no need for rules and laws.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 11:03

Yesterday a member of the Constructors Union received a phone call, calling the members (or the committee, not sure) same day to consider the Akfinans matter. According to this member, Kulaksiz borrowed some money from the bank and allegedly signed blank papers. No excuse if you ask me. The more serious allegation is that the interest rate was 250% p.a. and capitalization every three months i.e. 597.29% per year. I don't think this is correct but if it is so, it should have been argued in court that the bank had acted irresponsibly and misused the trust of his client. I don't rreally have enough information about the legal background of this case.

ismet

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 11:25

A very succinct and pragmatic assessment, 'elko2'!



Nobody could convince me that nepotism did not influence the final court decision that allowed this despicable and blatant fraud to be, seemingly successfully, enacted.



Better to have sacrificed one [allegedly] corrupt bank, or as many as it takes, rather than the entire TRNC's reputation, and with it, the country's economy.

ricooper123


Joined: 14/04/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 11:45

I think the whole episode of the police action in this matter is a bit suspect???????????????

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 11:49

Tracer. a friend of mine lived in the South and came on a day trip to the north. The day after he was asked to go to the police station as there was a problem with his car. On arrival he was told there was no problem with the car BUT they asked why he was looking at property agents in the North and his reply that he was just comparing prices ( the truth ) was not accepted and he and his wife were detained for several hours and questioned as though they had commited murder.

When he told his neighbour, a Greek Cypriot, about this his neighbour told him he should leave as the police would not leave him alone .

He did.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 12:04

Cardi, perhaps your friend's story didn't ring true to the police? Perhaps he was hoping to fill his car up with cheap cigarettes and take them south? I doubt we'll know the full story.

briano


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 32

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 12:32

Hang on, how would Police in the south know what someone in the north had been doing on their day trip?



That a GC neighbour should suggest he leaves the country is absurd; I think your friend was being very imaginative heere!

barnaclebill


Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 303

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 12:49

One of the GC Meterhan police officers used to regularly fish from the pier near the Dome He was always a miserable g-t when on duty and when he was rude I often thought the next time I see you fishing you are going over the wall,LOL,I never did though.My point is though you never no who is watching .

BB

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:05

It is quite amazing that when someone says somthing on here there are quite a few who cant wait to come on and infer that their story's are lies.

The people I refered too now live here. They Rent. This was about five years ago and the police from the south would come over in unmarked cars and would make a note of GC cars near estate agents. perhaps they still do.

i was held up at the border for about 40 minutes because I had a book with estate agents ads in. It was the Tourist Guide to North Cyprus.

Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:07

Said it twice due to finger problem

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 22:31

How can anyone feel safe in the TRNC when the police can act like this?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 07:42

msg 16,



It is still a potential probelm that if you land in RoC and travel north and you have documents realating to ANY properties in the TRNC you stand a chance of being arrested or at best interviewed for several hours.

There are massive amounts of stories on internet of people who flew into RoC with GC or Greek Airlines and had been talking on the flight about their potential moveing to TRNC. Those people then found themselves being interviewed by police on landing.



Sorry but after 5 years I know these events happen, not as often now but a sad indictment of the mentallity of some.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 08:47

Must be more to all this! What was the Bnk's motives? What is the background to this property? Is there a miortgage on it? Has a PTP been obtained? etc. Is it a new/ish house with a developer pulling the strings perhaps? Are the owners residents of the TRNC, or is the property a holiday home?

Geoff

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:00

Geoff, have you been asleep this past year?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:22

and now they are accusing Pauline Read of trespassing, see http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/01/akfinans-bank-police-accuse-pauline-read-of-trespassing/

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:46

troodo

want to join mafia? try africans bank or asil nadir.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:54

jimmykibris, that's the NCFP story copied and pasted by north cyprus forum instead of supplying a link to us.

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:28

in view of message 22 and for people to see a bigger picture the link to the full story on 1 thread was posted there is a link to the ncf article at the bottom of the thread i believe.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:36

malsancak,

I have just read the latest from Pauline and I feel quite sick.



These bank employees are working with, I am sure the knowledge of those in charge of the country. I am afraid the rules of the forum do not allow me to say how I really feel!



If Eroglu and Kucuk do not respond early this coming week we know that this is a deliberate attempt to destroy the English community spririt in the hope we will leave. I think now we have got to bring out that English (UK) spirit and fight back with anything we are able.



If the scum do present a date and time for Pauline & Chris (why not the rest of the site - rhetorical I think) to be evicted then there will be a mass mobilisation. The scum will be shown the full force of an ex-pat back lash, we are all sick of being treated like dirt.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:40

I was just making the point to readers that the msg 25 link is not the original article written by Pauline Read and published by her on NCFP. I've not read the North Cyprus Forum article in full, it appears to be a direct copy of her article, but be aware that it may have been changed so that what Pauline intended to write may be misreported there.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:51

The point Pauline is making is that so far Akfinans Bank has worked within the law but the lock changing escapade seems to have been the first illegal step they've taken. As is sometimes the case, police are misinformed of the law by influential private citizens and act upon that information, as in the case of the trespass accusation and the refusal to investigate a criminal damage and dangerous driving case. Hopefully when Pauline's representatives contact those who should know better, an apology will be forthcoming, and an investigation launched as to why the police decide to act in the way they did. I should image that the only thing the police are guilty of is of being deliberately misinformed.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:54

No, I have not been asleep for the last year or whatever. And from the recent postings to this thread I am still no wiser as to what caused the problem/s in this particular case.

Was the house fully paid for and registered in the purchaser's name?

Had a PTP been issued?

Was money owed to the bank by anyone in respect of this property?

This is a forum where we can discuss most things, but constructive debate is only possible if we have all sides to the story, with no bias.

We cannot, for example, offer help if we don't knosw what exactly we are helping with

Geoff

Famagusta City

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 11:05

Geoff







theree is again a facebook group created today by request Shame on Akfinans Bank & their directors





http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?members&gid=107163066005030#!/group.php?gid=107163066005030



so it can not be clsed easily most if not all who join will be able to upload photos and be admins of the group

gardenmaker


Joined: 01/09/2008
Posts: 170

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 11:53

who needs mafia when you got the geek (not a misspell) orthodox church they make the mafia look like pussycats HYPOCRITES

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 12:14

i am in thr process of upoadin lots of press cuttings to the facebook group

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 12:26

This article about Friday night's incident appeared in Kibris Star yesterday http://www.starkibris.net/index.asp?haberID=66127

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 12:40

thanks jo and jelly it is now on the facebook group page

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 13:03

nothing changed malc no one misreported there. just the full story on 1 thread easy to follow

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 13:39

thanks for checking jimmykibris.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 13:45

I don't read (can't) Turkish So Msg 35's article no use to me. I do NOT use Facebook as I scared of identity fraud.

Why cannot someone put the full facts of this case on here, in English?

Geoff

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 13:57

geoff



as good as it is this forum is it is a a little limited ie only 1000 characters per post and no photos there are many photos and press cuttings all on 1 thread so people can see the full story.



i understand the reluctance of some to use facebook but as far as I can see there is a pretty full picure of the situation on the link no chance of identity theft on the link .



it is important people get behind this as a community it could be any one of us next.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 14:02

"Just to update you thru Malcolm. I am particularly interested in elkos

msg#11. We have also heard about the initial interest Akfinans Bank

charged being much higher than the 80% quarterly compound we all know about.

We all balked at that. The point is that despite numerous attempts to

get a copy of the original loan agreement, we have been thwarted at

every turn. What do they have to hide??



Anyone who does not know the complete story and I promise you, we are

completely blameless, if you troll the archives of North Cyprus Free

Press you can get chapter and verse.



Chris and I are still free but yesterday was touch and go as to

whether they would arrest us. It seems you can attempt to run someone

over if you work for Akfinans Bank, but you will be arrested if you

walk, even in the garden, of your own

house. How does that work for you? I think I was targetted because

I am just too lippy.



Thank you all for your support"





Pauline Read - bent but not

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 14:13

Geoff re your message 39. Are you being purposely pedantic/provocative (not sure which fits best)? We are trying to fight for our homes on a daily basis (next group meeting 3pm today) and we simply do not have the time to retype everything for you here. You have been told more than once by a number of posters how you can find out this information. We would appreciate your support so please do make the effort to at least follow the link in message 40.

Thanks.

Jo

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 16:25

Like many of you I am appalled at how this bank is acting, but more shocked by the apathy of the police. This got me wondering as to how many of the TCs feel about all this. With this in mind I read the comments below the article in yesterday's Star http://www.starkibris.net/index.asp?haberID=66127.



Allow me to translate the points made by the "Vatansver KKTC" and "Turkish Friend" : Firstly Vatansever writes than "We Cypriots fought for this land" and then TF warns Chris that "tomorrow evening the locks on his bedroom door could well be changed", adding further "we TCs didn't buy our homes with sterling - we fought in the mountains."



Obviously not all TCs think in this way, but it does give one an idea as to why the Kulaksiz 5 are getting such a raw deal.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 16:41

They reap what they sow:



http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?msg=commentsaved&n=north-cyprus-property-sales-stagnate-2010-07-29



Yet they still do not see their own actions as being the reason for this decline.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 16:47

For whatever reason my comments were not displayed so I will post her instead.



The developers have lost the plot! The sole reason people are no longer buying in the TRNC is because IT IS NOT SAFE TO DO SO!

Bad publicity highlighting the many scams that occur and the lack of legal protection and Government intervention are the reasons. Too many people have been burnt and the horror stories are well documented.



The advocates, builders and Government have failed to take constructive action to prevent the corruption and fraud endemic in the TRNC and they are now reaping the seeds they have sown..... a 50% fall in property sales. This is however just the start of the decline. This decline began when people stopped buying off plan thinking it too risky. It then became don't buy PRE 74 because foreigners will not get PTP.When auctions and memorandums occurred it was the last straw.



Developers and Government have killed the goose that laid the golden egg and have only themselves to

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:27

spot on messagae 42 there are photos press cutting and opinions on the link lets hope TOGETHER we can bring this to the FOREFRONT of trnc politics again.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:28

I may be just looking at things without trying to be political but the south side has many problems too so this doesnt appear to be just a Turkish cyp problem its about corrupt greedy criminal people and if by that it includes advocates, government, construction ,police so be it but that is what it is.



It does happen in other countries too as we know but at the moment we (or should I say I) or anyone who is going to loose their home, is going to fight the cause and the corrupt actions against us.



For the ones lucky to have had good honest buiders etc then that is good for them but its not just to do with them having done homework there was some luck.



If youre not in that position and therefore it doesnt matter it does! as the support from everyone in doing whatever we can to change it and I would add for the better of the TRNC



This situation is not just about TC not wanting us here ,it may be ,but my opinion is its about the greedy corrupt ones who exist in any country

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:34

just the ones here know they are on a winner as the law protects them not us.



We didnt buy here to get at the politics we are in a foreign country we may like things changed sometimes when we see the litter etc but we knew that when we came. We didnt come here to be cheated out of our homes and to add insult to injury be treated like the criminal.



I feel for you all I am in court proceedings myself I may be lucky but we must all be together on this one whats going to be the next thing they are going to do. I hope we can come get something together to stop this

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:44

Well at long last, Msg 40's link gives me some info. It may take folks a while to type in stuff on here, but it is always appreciated.

I was NOT trying to be in anyway provocative, I just expect all info to be on OUR forum.

I hope the ex-Squadron Leader wins the day,

Geoff

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:48

geoff msg 39



I am going to break the rules here, you are either totally thick or illeterate.



People are fighting for their lives here and you appear to be taking the p***. All the links have been posted in this thread for you to follow the story which has been running in Cyprus Today, NCFP and on this and every other forum for best part of this year.



Now msg 40 has a link that will tell you all you need to know along with the several other links posted on this thread. Nobody needs to post anymore on this thread for you to get that msg.

TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:57

It appears that it's one rule for the people, one rule for the organisations.

When I had trouble with squatters I changed the locks and the Police threatend to arrest ME if I didn't give the squatters a key. They were deadly serious as it was from an officer who spoke immaculate English with perfect grammar, so there could be no confusion in the line the Police were willing to take.

What's the difference between me and the agent acting on behalf of Akfinans Bank who hasn't been granted any rights by a court to reposses his property? None, I say. Which takes me straight back to "one rule for the people, one rule for the organisations".

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:57

geoff



because of the constraints of this forum it is not possible to put all the information on here in a concise and coherent way on occasions any information you may need can be found at http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com a good site for information but to get a full picture may involve searching or going into archives the link gives you a chronological view of events as they unfolded I am sue TOGETHER ALL THE FORUMS and ncfp can bring this to the fore of turkish and TRNC NEWS







this is not about glory BUT HELPING PEOPLE KEEP THERE HOMES

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 18:09

message 51



Youre spot on as I also know that as have been in similar situation.I know that despite behaving within my legal rights and the TC behaving against them I was in the wrong! Just look at the Mary /Geoff situation which means we have to do something. I dont mind if Im treated differantly in certain things but loosing homes getting locked up nearly getting injured. sorry a step too far and the steps have to be stopped people have rights wherever lets not get involved in politics just rights and KEEPING OUR HOMES.

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:11

sticky please??

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:22

What sticky jam, fly paper or sticky fingers which is more appropriate to TRNC!!!!! LOL

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:23

check out http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=107163066005030

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:26

this is of such importance it needs to be a sticky

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:38

you are so right, it needs the worlds attention. we have also beeb bleed dry lets tell it as it is, oh mt god my thoughts are with that wonderful strong pauline and her agile man x

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 20:12

it is worth sticky for 14 days ( just my opinion)



please post any and all press notices/ articles you find on the topic.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 20:19

and any suggeations as to what anyone can do to bring this to the attention of anyone that will listen in government, papers here and in UK, etctelevision

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 20:25

contibute to this thread it keeps it up on google hits join http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=107163066005030 and invite all your friends view and or join all of the above will keep it in the public eye publicity is the one thing the robbing bank hates

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 08:42

What constraints on here?

I fully support what is going on and agree expats/foreign buyers must stick together.

I might be thick matey, but I sure not stupid.

Geoff

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 13:28

"It really is inconvenient to have to talk to you thru Malcolm, but that is the way it has to be.

Read North Cyprus Free Press today and you will see just how duplicitous the Bank and their Advocate really have been. I hear you say - how much worse can they get - I promise you a lot lot worse. Sorry I am drip feeding you information but I am up at 4.00 am liaising with our many alllies we have all over the world. There is a concerted campaign afoot.

I do thank Malcolm for making NCFP available to me and theKulaksiz 5 and I thank you all for your support.

Pauline - bent but not broken"

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/02/akfinan-banks-indecent-proposal-to-kulaksiz-5-north-cyprus-property-owners/

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 14:54

sorry Geoff it came across as stupid with the questions that you asked in message 22.



if you are a regular memeber of the forum which I presume you are and presume you read newspapers here then I fail to see how you asked asked the questions you did . It has been so well advertised here and in the news with the full details of the case I fail to see how anyone doesnt know.



You say theres to be more to it and there probably is, on underhand side of the bank etc a polite way of putting it,



This forum is for debate yes with full facts. They have already been given ,everywhere and to everyone This thread is now to bring this recent criminal appalling behiaviour to everyones attention again and am quite sure theres a lot going on behind the scenes we are not privvy to and Im sure you must know that. They and maybe many others have battled,lost still battling and hopefully will win with lots of support .



stupid hopefully not

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 16:40

I real point is, and you won't like it, is that there are usually two sides to every dispute.

I imagine this one will be no different!

Love,

Geoff

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 16:53

Geoff



The two sides of the story:



Side 1 - Developer



Buys land and builds properties on aforementioned land.

Sells properties receiving payment in full.

Whilst the new 'owners' are waiting for the deeds, developer takes out loan with Afkinans bank.

Developer defaults on loans - actually never pays a single kurus.

Afkinans Bank sue developer for outstanding loan and accrued interest.

Developer unable to pay the bank so they place memorandums on the properties because as the deeds have yet to be issued to the owners, the properties are still in his name.

Properties auctioned and bought by the bank.

Developer walks away scot free.



Side 2 - Owners

Bought properties and paid in full.

Whilst awaiting issue of deeds, discover that memorandum has been placed on 'their' properties by Afkinans Bank.

Properties sold from under their feet and bought by the bank.





Geoff - clear enough ??



Paul

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 16:59

Geoff - clear enough!!!

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:03

Paul thank you for that spot on there are 2 sides



side 1: corrupt



side 2: legal



As paul said. Geoff clear enough and stupid hopefully not!!!!!!!

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:40

Thanks Pul,

did the buyer register the property in ther own name (necessary pre-issue of PTP and then the deeds)?

If yes they have a strong moral (I would have thought legal) case.

If no they have no case, and it ain't me who is stupid!

Simples.

Geoff

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:56

Geoff



You would have to ask the buyers with regard to registering of the properties.



Regardless of whether they did or not, I am sure you would agree they have a strong MORAL case even if 'legally' (does such a word exist in the TRNC ?) their situation is more tenuous.



By the way, I was not inferring that you were stupid, merely trying to give a brief precis of the case for you as you appeared to be having difficulty in finding the details.



Paul

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:59

moral and legal dont go together here ! they have a strong moral case the strongest Ive heard and even when you have a strong legal case or so you think when you actually look at the legislation you realise you dont have a chance unless the judge is forward thinking.



Im not sure if correct ,but am sure will be corrected, but the government brought out the legislation in 2008 for all contracts to be stamped tax paid and registered at land registry inorder to stop the double selling and mortgages from the banks. In a lot of cases people boiught off plan before this date and didnt register the contacts nuntil the new legislation came in and too late for a lot of people as the mortgages had already been taken out in the time gap.



The registration of the contract is now supposed to give the purchaser some protection basically the same as an injunction but it doesnt in this present time protect from someone going to court to win a judgement against your builder/kocan holder

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 18:09

subsequently the aggrieved places a memo on the builders assets which is your home. With it so far.



these problems are coming to light since the people buying before 2008 hadnt had any protection aprt fro breach of contract and claiming for damages which if the builder hasnt got assets your stuffed.



I cant really understand how you are finding this so difficult to understan unless you have been lucky got your deeds without a problem ,or you rent .

they know they have a good moral case and they know legally it is good but we are in north cyprus and unless you stitch them to a contract theyh cant in amy way wriggle out of 9How I dont know) then thats it in a nutshell.



Not all have this problem there theres some good ones out there if youre one dealing with a unsrupulous builder solicitor etc then they certainly know how to do the stitching.



Im not sying youre stupid just have problem why you dont get if. or maybe Im being blonde and stupid and yep Im blonde

DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 120

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 18:17

Keep this thread at the top, it could be your locks next.

Reason? because they can and the police have been shown to be complicit.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 19:12

Geoff,



you are mistaken if you think you are safe from memorandums because you registered your property.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 01:53

Bradus,



Lets not forget "injunctions" These can be taken out by anyone who feels they have a grievance, and they can be used to stop a kochan transfer, even if the builder wishes to do so. This then effectively leaves the property at the mercy of further "memorandi"



Nightmare!



wyn

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 08:26

and all because the government are unable to process Permission To Purchase applications in a timescale that would make NO KOCAN, NO MONEY! unnecessary. I read in Cyprus Today that they were blaming the Turkish military for this problem, saying it was their part of the process which was holding it up.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 08:43

Re Msgs Nos 70 and 74.

Well, this is the crux of it, and what I was getting at when I was accused on here of being all sorts of things, such as stupid, etc.

Simple question and those pushing one side of the story responding without apparently having all the facts.

The matter of Registration is but one issue, I could mention several others not addressed by this forum yet in respect of this very sad case..

Registration gives you SOME BETTER protection if it all ends up in a TRNC Court.

Put it this way! No registration for sure means NO chance of winning in Court.

These property issues always get everyone wound up - nasty developers, nasty TRNC, nasty estate agents,

nasty Solicitors, etc.

Buyers and their supporters always seem to blame everyone else but themselves!!

That is my feelings, this thread has, in my view, served its purpose and should now be closed.

Regards to all fellow free-thinkers and open debaters, and to those with no axes to grind,

Geoff

Famagusta City

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 08:47

Paul your message 66 is correct other than the builder did not buy the land he was given it by the landowner in exchange for 3 villas, 2 of which are currently lived in by the landowner's family. Builder took out the mortgage, landowner guaranteed it. All contracts were signed and the villas at the finishing stages when the mortgage was taken.

Contracts are registered but only since Jan 2008, over 2 years after the mortgage was taken.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 08:57

Re Msg 78: well there you go! I rest my case.

If folks want to support an injustice always go for a cast iron case. This one obviously is not, but it has taken us 78 postings to get to that conclusion. It is a sad case, indeed, but dodgy one to win in a Court, in my opinion.

Geoff

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 10:11

What are you talking about Geoff? If you are referring to the registration issue being after the mortgage then that is because the law was only changed in Jan 2008 to enable contracts to be registered. But then again, I'm sure you already knew that didn't you.

It's nice to know that you think people shouldn't support this injustice because the lack of laws in this country put buyers at risk. It may be a "dodgy" case to win in court but that is not the fault of the buyers.

Oh and by the way, there is no such thing as a cast iron case in the TRNC so that absolves you of supporting people in need. Nice one.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 10:35

joandjelly wrote "the builder did not buy the land he was given it by the landowner in exchange for 3 villas, 2 of which are currently lived in by the landowner's family"

If you are right then the contract to transfer the land to the builder has been broken when the landowner lost the payment they received for it, i.e. the villas! Which means the builder has lost their right to put a mortgage on it and for Akfinans to auction the land the builder has forfeited their right to... the law is not an ass it is a herd of asses!!! This is not the first time I've heard of this situation. This is the equivalent of paying for goods with counterfeit money, surely?

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 12:15

tWhat are you talking about Geoff msg 80



I totally agree what are you talking about Geoff.



You are right registration does give you some better protection if you go to court but as has been said on here so many times you must surely have understood, that before the law for registration of contracts which only came in in 2008, you just had to have your contract stamped and tax paid. Because of that there was apparantly no protection and was the time the mortgages were being taken out by the builders.the full scale of this has only come to light since the registration in 2008 and too late for many people.



Even so the registration does not stop memorandums being placed on your property whilst the kocan is in someone elses name.



So tell me who should we blame? Is it our fault that the homework with solicitors we got wrong! many of the solicitors have been trained in the uk and know UK system and TRNC system.The british system is used here just interpreted differantly!

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 12:18

You say there go I rest my case. What case do you have except you seem to have no understanding.



And as msg 80 states nice one you are a real help

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 14:20

If the government cannot protect you from the mortgage scam it makes you wonder if they'll take you into account if there is a settlement.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 17:57

These things are NOT black and white. You need to register your purchase within 3 months of purchase,

that has always been the case, incl prior to 2008.

Failure to do so, as in this case, means you have no protection against the bad guys.

To Register gives you SOME protection, possibly enough to tip the scales in Court in your favour.

Geoff



*** TIME THIS THREAD WAS CLOSED, IT HAS SERVED ITS PURPOSE ***



Let us find a case that is cast iron, and support it in Court. This case is legally flawed.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 18:21

It is a shame that this thread is hijacked yet again by a saddo from the south who rather than offer objective advice just keeps asking annoying questions and when he gets the answers decides to twist around to something else.



By all means close the thread but not beciase it serves no use but because of an idiot causing trouble for the sake of it.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 18:28

OK Geoff,



Heres a similiar type case for you as you seem to be 'Legal Eagle'



I am in a similiar position as the above development, my builder took out a mortgage for our development and yes there are 2 Landowners houses on it too. Now the bank has issued a memorandum against him as he spent the money at the Colony Casino (allegedly)



Where does your ideals for a cast iron case rest with that?



Yes the house is registered for all that did in 2008 as Lawyers excuse was that the 'paperwork' passed eachother!! So Stamp Duty was duly paid!



I and a lot of others face losing our houses , I bought mine in 2005 and have 99% paid for it.

yes worrying times and we are not the only ones having to suffer because of bank interest rates and builders spending the money unwisely.

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 18:52

You're right Geoff - Akfinans Bank is in its rights to take the properties ... that is, under the current system where a bank can offer a loan without thoroughly bothering to check the securities being offered by the borrower. As you state, the case of these unfortunate people is anything but "cast iron". Yes, they were rather naive not to insist on getting their Kocan at the earliest possible moment, but they didn't.



If a case were to be "cast iron", then by definition it wouldn't need any support. Legally these people have the odds stacked against them, but morally, even you must agree, they have done absolutely nothing wrong. The way to change such corrupt financial dealings here in North Cyprus is to put pressure on the current administration ... and thus we need such threads as this to keep people aware of unjustices being committed on this beautiful island.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:27

Crumpy...."Yes, they were rather naive not to insist on getting their Kocan at the earliest possible moment, but they didn't. "



In the TRNC you cannont "insist" on getting your Kocan.

Even when you have got your PTP ( after how many years? ),and have paid in full , there is no law in the TRNC that obligates the landowner/builder to hand over the deeds if they don't feel like it.

It is a scandalous situation that is hard to believe.

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:30

The law in the south and north have similar loop holes of deeds being mortgaged and/or not handed over to purchasers

If this were the Uk it would be called fraud by builder and or bank

I am not sure of criminal law in Cyprus but if someone sells property house or car to a third party and then goes on to raise money from a financier or bank on those sold goods the vendor has committed fraud .

The financier and or bank would then be out of pocket for their loan or guilty of complicity in the fraud

If the property is already mortgaged to the bank the solicitor should be disbarred and forced to pay compensation for not obtaining clear title for the property .

Shock in the roc a judge forced a solicitor to pay damages for lack of duty of care this was headline news

The law in Cyprus is no law at all

Like the russian doll there's always another one or twist when you think you,re home and dry

Pauline and all at K5 my heart goes out to you

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:37

Cronos the same applies to the south unless they've passed the bill to please the eu not retrospectively

You can not demand your deeds there either and mortgages are taken out on them

About two years ago before all this hit on memorandums and mortgages HBPG had a judge give a talk and he said to paraphrase" whatever the cost whatever the hoop you have to jump get your deeds don't argue over snagging pay the money and get your deeds be secure"

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:43

Thanks Cronos ... but yet another reason why we have to keep such threads going to try and change such corrupt dealings.

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:01

Hi Crumpy I would love to have been merely naive in not insisting in getting my kocan at the earliest opportunity. The earliest opportunity for me was in November 2006 when I got my PTP (applied for in May 2004) a full 12 months after the mortgage was taken out.

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:18

Hi Jo ... as you can see from my number of postings I am relatively new to Cyprus and thus there are still a few things I have learn about buying a property here. That said the more I do learn, the more I realise how we need to try and change the injustices of the current legal system.

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:18

In the TRNC if you bounce a cheque you appear in the paper & can go to jail

fail to pay a mortgage as a builder and the house owner looses their house and no publicity unless someone notices that there's an auction the day before

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:19

Hi Jo ... as you can see from my number of postings I am relatively new to Cyprus and thus there are still a few things I have learn about buying a property here. That said the more I do learn, the more I realise how we need to try and change the injustices of the current legal system.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:22

Dont worry about your postings Crumpy, if you carry on posting the same message twice you will soon have 5 stars )

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:25

I think I posted it THREE times cooper - I've got no idea what happened !

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:58

No worries Crumpy. Just goes to show how important these threads are to potential purchasers out there. Hopefully there are a few more safeguards these days. Still not enough though.

expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 22:02

msg 43:

As one who plan (planned?) to buy in NC; this whole saga.. AND the attitudes displayed in that article makes me think. And rethink. And think again.



"we TCs didn't buy our homes with sterling - we fought in the mountains." Yeah?



Well, I have (had?) the intention of investing 100-200 K (of my hard-earned money) in a house here.... But apparently TC can get that by just "fighting in the mountains? " Basically; he is telling me I´m a fool not to take my money elsewhere.



Lets hope TRNC has all the sterling it needs then, `cause not much more will come from expats with this attitude.

expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 22:06

.. with this attitude from TRNC, was what I wanted to say

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 23:11

Hi Expatlady ... don't be put off coming here - yes, those comments (below the newspaper article) were made ... by a few extremist nationalists, but are not representative of the majority - I have found that most TCs would go out of their way to help someone. But yes, there are a few (just a few) TCs who resent the Brits etc buying property here and yes there are a few unscrupulous builders, lawyers, bankers etc who feel it is easier to use the corrupt legal system to trick these expats.

expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 23:45

Crumpy:



Sorry: but I´m SERIOUSLY put off. Yes, I *know* that it is a small minority, and that there are rotten apples in every other country, too. (And yeah: I have been to TRNC, and I liked it very much. Friendly people, beautiful nature. That was why I intended to return, to buy).



The problem is, after reading about all the problems some expats experience, it seems as if the law in NC protects "the rotten apples". And that is NOT the case in every other country.



(And renting, even long-term, is not really an option; I want something more "settled". If cannot find that in Cyprus, well, I will have to find another place (around the Med.))

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 23:50

hi expat, it is lovely warts and all but this is your life, shop around and look at italty, bulgaria farnce even so many places, all of which i wished i picked xxx

expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 00:32

Well, to be honest, wrt to Cyprus: it is not so much my life, as *my money* I am worried about



Oh; and I absolutely love history; and for that Cyprus is a treasure trove.



However; I think I will still give it a try, in the autumn, ...but I am going to demand such strict conditions before I fork over any serious amount of money, that I suspect nobody will sell to me... Yes: I have learned from the horror-stories here: I would only pay a small deposit ---until I have my PTP and kocan. NO exceptions.



And if the sellers do not accept that, then, oh well, I will say bye, bye, any Cyprus-property.





(Lilli: I´m new on this board, so I don´t know your history. Why do you wish you had looked in other places than Cyprus? A link, if this has been discussed before, will do )

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 00:57

Sadly it would also appear that even with the introduction of new laws thing will not improve.I read with interest the new proposals which are set to prevent further deterioration in the construction industry, as opposed to safeguarding buyers!



The new laws would certainly not inspire me to buy! I note no changes to PTP. No mention of memorandums but a suggestion that the new law would prevent mortgages being taken out or double selling. I thought that had supposedly been introduced with the Estate Agents Law?



As usual a very complicated way of dealing with this problem, when it could be so easily rectified. Why oh why, don't they simply speed up the PTP process and introduce a law which makes it a legal requirement to handover title deeds on completion of contract?



http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Press/CT170710_kocan_law.html

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 07:12

From Pauline Read:

"I have been reading with interest the posts by Geoff. He started off the naive man who needed educating on the house buying procedure and developed into an expert able to tell us all where we went wrong. What a quick study. He is quite sure we could all have registered our Contracts prior to the Estate Agents law in January 2008 even though we have all been told quite categorically that we could not have. Tell me Geoff, if your assertions are correct, why was there a need to insert a clause in the new law allowing us to register our contracts. Bear in mind we are all stupid, you are the expert You wouldn't happen to work for Akfinans would you? What we all could do and I indeed did do, was pay the stamp duty on the Contract within the first 15 days which then makes it a legally binding document My purchase was Sept 2005, PTP applied for immediately, eventually received in July 2008."

Cont...

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 07:13

From Pauline Read:

"The mortgage was taken out Nov. 2005 after I signed the Contract and paid most of the purchase money. The mortgage was discovered when registering my Contract in early 2008. Even then, the outrageous interest rate of 80% quarterly compound was not known, all cases on Kulaksiz 5 are similar.

Try walking a mile in our shoes before you judge."

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 08:38

Re Msg 87: sue the Lawers!

Geoff

Famagusta City

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 08:46

RE Msg 109: Well I have my own problems, I haven't got my Title Deeds either, and I am retired etc. I consider it is mainly my own fault, just as I consider many (sad) cases we read about on here are their own fault. Many of us have been duped - my point is that if the expat community are to rally round a test case, then pick a winner.

My own case would not meet that criteria, anymore than the one this thread is about would.

BTW, I am not a saddo from the south, maybe (?) another saddo from the UK, like many folks on here!

Geoff

Famaguta City

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 09:20

Geoff, the reason why Pauline Read's Kulaksiz 5 case is the most important on the island is because it is the most advanced of its type. The property has been mortgaged by the landowner without the consent of the purchaser who has paid for it in full, it has then been auctioned by the Bank who allowed a 100,000TL mortgage grow to a 2m TL debt when they bought it at the auction, then without an eviction order they changed the locks to keep the purchasers out of their homes and nearly ran over a purchaser as they left the scene of the crime. If this case does not deserve the FULL support of ALL of us, especially those like yourself, then there is little hope that anyone in the same situation will ever gather enough support to make a difference. PLUS it gives a signal that other banks can start similar auctions with the understanding that they will receive little resistance. I believe that there are bank officials reading this thread for just that reason. BTW, I have an unencumbered kocan

lally


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 09:37

I agree 100% with Pauline Reed's postings re Geoff.

It is probably better that Geoff gets a real and current view of what has and still is happening in the whole property market before coming out with glib statements such has his on this thread.

Many innocent people have been caught up in the various "goings on" in the property market here, some totally illegal under any normal criteria and others bad practice by some banks as in this case. Unfortunately we have to look to the lawyers here to steer us through the morass but quite a few of them haven’t protected our interests. Finding the good ones is a challenge I'm afraid.



Many submissions have been submitted to the last two governments by buyer’s and other bodies to repeal the “specific performance law” which would allow the courts to transfer title deeds after receiving proof of payment by the purchaser. Continued:

lally


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 09:39

This would avoid very expensive and protracted court cases for financial compensation in the absence of the SPL repeal. I personally have been waiting to conclude my court case for at least 8 years.



The Permission to purchase (PTP) process is much too long and inconsistent. Once the police report is available from the UK it should take no longer than a month if only the civil service here could streamline its activities. However, having your PTP does not in anyway help in getting the title transferred if the land owner is unwilling to do so. It would also not have prevented a mortgage being issued as in Pauline’s and many other cases.



But hey Geoff, it's a free world and everyone is entitled to there opinion even though the facts behind the opinion are flawed………………….

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:00

geoff I think you are confused . You say the contracts always had to registered within 3 months where did you get that one from? You have always had to have had your cointract stamped and tax paid as you to use it in court there has to be a certain criteria. Also there is a time limit of going to court for certain actions and I think that is 3 months which is such an antiquated law it has to be challenged.



You say rally round and pick a winner. Do you understand that even if there is a cast iron case which is nearly impossible here in the the property buying process its just as difficult to get justice.

Many of us have been duped .



NO many of us have had fraudulant actions commited against us and that has already been acknowledged but as Ismet said in a previous thread getting the police here to take action is nearly impossible.



you keep going on about the registration of contracts and I keep telling you in 2004 /2005 when it wasnt law

Mandy


Joined: 25/10/2009
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:07

Hi Lilli,

Message 105. You said you wish you'd bought elewhere like italty, bulgaria or France.



I bought in Bulgaria and have problems too- I still love TRNC and am glad I 'found' it. I want to live and retire here.



It just needs the government to step in and save the country from the damage being done by the banks.



THe government have the legal system of lawmaking at their disposal and have been shown able to implement new laws very quickly.



Thats all that isd needed to transform the beautiful country

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:10

is the times until after registration that these mortgages bla bla bla happened. And if you want to learn more it DOES NOT STOP MEMORANDUMS being placed on your land whilst the kocan is someone elses hands.

Memorandums can be just as devastating as the mortgages and cost as much as interest can be added.



So Geoff tell me know how you get a cast iron case.



This thread and this support is to support and attempt for the government to listen and change the law and see the damage being done.



We can all see what is happening we dont want to go into politics we want to keep our homes and live a reasonably peaceful life and contribute to the economy and the country.



As for sue the solicitor everyone would be sued then and just goes to show what concept you have of the legal system and its consequences here.



ou say youre in the same position. Would be great for you wouldnt it if because of people like us trying to make change you got your title deeds.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:14

got your title deeds without haveing to give any support.



As for closing the thread why!!!



Because you dont understand the aims and the legalities . If you dont want to support or you just want to come on with the unhelpful comments then stay off it just read and learn maybe helpful

lally


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:17

Re message 115



The time limit for stamped contract registration is 21 days from date of contract signature. There was an amnesty in March 2008 because no one knew that this had to done..................

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 12:45

Sorry I may have confused things a little I didnt mean registering after signature and stamping. What I meant is there is a time limit in order to start court proceedings and that is 2 (or it maybe 3 months) either way it is so antiquated with such a unachievable condition.



Due to this time limit which if correct is under the specific performance law and which is the law that needs to be overhauled



It is being challenged I know at the moment . dont hold your breath !



It is this specific performance law that needs to be overhauled.



Msg 90



The criminal law is apparantly the same here just try getting the police to follow it is a differant thing especilly when its a regime of who has the most power if you get my gist.



You never know there was a big maffia arrest in italy last month. !

lally


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 13:43

Re message 120



Just to clarify that I was referring to the “Specific Performance Law” that allows the courts to order the transfer of title to the new owner. This same law applies in the UK and probably many other countries as well.



Unfortunately the TRNC version can only be considered by the courts if the time limit is within 60 days of the contract, which of course is totally impractical given the time to build a property and of course the PTP process which can take years…. If this law had been updated several years ago, it would probably have avoided the necessity of taking protracted court action for damages in many hundreds’ of cases.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 14:05

yep thats the one Im referring to and the one that needs overhauling. However at the moment am going down the path of challenging it due its impracticality and PTP



If the time limit was say 5 years at least it would give you time to get the PTP maybe! at least in that period if contract stamped signed and registered you can apply for a judgement to transfer the deeds.



Also the registration of contracts with the land registry should not allow memorandums being placed on your portion of land which the builder /Kocan holder is holdingback and which you have fully paid for.



In my probably simple opinion if

if time limit changed under SPL to a reasonable limit and contracts correctly registered then the system would be a lot easier and at least some redress in the court.



at the moment the memnorandums are now taking over from the mortgages as the registration in 2008 helped to stop that.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 16:55

The sale contract always had to be registered, but things were tightened up in 2008 - that is what I was told by a Solicitor, either he was right or wrong.

We are all in the same boat if title deeds are awaited.

Regards this thread where is it getting us? As far as I can see all aspects have been well and truly aired,

Geoff

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 16:58

could be the thread is keeping people abrest of developments

Sundance


Joined: 15/07/2010
Posts: 213

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 17:06

Message 116



Mandy your so right, could not of worded it better my self,



Sundance

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 17:12

No we are not all in the same boat. Some are in a worse and appalling situation similar to the gary robb saga .

If theses things are not supported and people like youself come on a forum picking holes in everything which is your privledge, but to ask for it to be closed. Why it should be important to us all as you never know we can all learn . Apart from tha.t this situation has gone a step further than not getting deeds maybe loosing your home and money if thats not bad enough in the first place! its gone to an even more sinister level which is why the thread was started in the first place.



If you havent got your deeds youre in the same position as many. If youre house has been taken from you and then broken into and caused injury do you really think by just ignoring it is going to go away.

Its like anything if you aint in that position it doesnt matter.



I would be really interested as am sure many others would as to how you would have acted in light of the recent incidents

expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 22:33

Msg 105: North Cyprus "is lovely warts and all"



Yeah, but the problem is that if I had been one of the Kulaksiz 5, then the "warts" would look a bit like this:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Leprosy

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 23:11

MESSAGE 116



"It just needs the government to step in and save the country from the damage being done by the banks"



Err NO!



The government are the problem. Had effective laws been introduced then the amount of scams from developers, advocates, estate agents and more recently the banks would have been preventable. These scams have being going on for several years now and despite demands for changes to safeguard house buyers the government have remained intransigent.



It does not inspire confidence in the TRNC property market by suggesting that other countries have problems too. Keep to the TRNC, as elsewhere is irrelevant if you are buying here.



Yes there have been quickly introduced laws but the big question is "were they effective?



We all know the answer to that having experienced the Estate Agents Law. The correct interpretation of laws is also sadly lacking.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 23:18

Bradus

You are spot on with your comments a usual. I only wish the revenue from property was as large as that I assume is being raked in from the gambling casinos. Then you would see some government action now that the property sector has collapsed.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 23:53

Collapsed it has. A telling time Hector,because if the Government are serious about instilling confidence and doing everything possible to prevent even further decline, we should start to see the introduction of new laws that make property purchase safe. This should start with speeding up the PTP process and making transfer of title deeds a legal requirement.



Anything other than these initiatives will fail to convince, as well as fail to safeguard.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/08/2010 08:52

further information about about Akfinans Bank and a campaign of lies at

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/05/north-cyprus-akfinans-bank-enlists-akan-kursat-in-fight-against-truth/

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
05/08/2010 11:06

bradus think you mean msg 115 not 116 and I agree the government are the problem the others are allowed to get away with it because of it.



It would appear they are more interested in the revenue from the casinos than any changes of property purchases and as we all know there are some very big connections within that circle!



But this thread should be kept to update on any further re this incident which has taken peoples problems into a far higher concern.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/08/2010 18:54

Yes Honestie. Sorry I did mean 115.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 10:42

"Hi folks,

I guess if you read NCFP you are pretty up to date with the situation.

Let me tell you, that what happened to me last Friday will happen to my neighbours, I have no doubt of this. The rule of law here seems not to apply to Akan Kursat and Akfinans Bank Limited.

Please take the few seconds to put something on the wall of facebook shame akfinans bank - it may make a difference, we need your support.

My emotional pain is obvious, you can see it etched in my face. My neighbours all look drawn and ill. Some have developed visible tremors, that one or more of us will not be here to see the end of this ordeal is inevitable. Help us."



Pauline Read

Sundance


Joined: 15/07/2010
Posts: 213

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 11:59

Hello all, I do feel sad for what you are going through, if I was back in Belfast, this sort of thing gets Resolved very differant when people take advantage , just a quick question ,is it all expats or are their any TC in any of these home,s



Sundance

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 12:16

also TCs so not specifically an ex-pat thing

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 14:23

msg 133,



Not to detract from your issues but there are many in the same pain as you and who cares. Nobody in this banana republic that is for sure.



They have all lined there own pockets at the expnse of ourselves and when they run out of money they then use the system to f*** is all again. I am fed up of it. I have even heard that our so called builder is complaining to his potential clients and for them not to listen to a trouble maker. For pity sake it is him that put us in this shit and I am trying to prevent others from falling into the same trap.



Unfortunatley as we all keep seeing on this and other forums nobody believes us "whinging Brits" they believe the lying, thieving illigitimate Cypriots that are going to screw them over. Then they come back and ask, can you help because...............



Right now I would recommend everyone follow the FCO advice in UK and stay well away from TRNC untill after it totally implodes later this year.

DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 120

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 14:59

I agree with cyprusishome, this thread should remain at the top to advise as many people as possible about the dishonesty and double dealing in the TRNC, not to mention the double standards pricing. The way that Pauline and Chris have been mistreated and cheated is disgusting and the so called police are completely complicit. The TRNC is no longer a safe place for expats.

DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 120

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 15:01

oops said it twice and will probably say it again.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 15:09

cyprusishome...msg 133



Hi David, the depth of your feelings and also your desperation,is evident from your posts.

This also came across when we met at Geoff and Mary's court appearance last month.



You are a great example to anyone thinking of buying property in the TRNC despite all the warnings.

A few short years ago you started off full of hope and actually promoted the TRNC and really wanted to give it a chance and silence the naysayers.

Things have unfortunately turned out horrendous for you personally,and you can see the TRNC property market and legal system for what it really is.

I totally agree with you....people should avoid buying in the TRNC full stop until it radically alters its laws regarding PTP and title deeds.



We got out relatively unscathed compared to many others,yourself included, and my heart goes out to all those still stuck there with little or no real security.



Good luck with your own fight ,and well done for continuing to support other victims.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 15:52

TRNC is no longer a safe place.........not even for villians anymore........as for 'rebels'....I'll keep fighting.



My heart goes out to you decent and innocent ones.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 15:57

Well I certainly don't agree with all the comments on here, no point in repeating myself either, as many others are doing.

HOWEVER, I DO agree with Msg 137 that this thread should be a "sticky", and so at the top of the listings as a warning to prospective property buyers.

Geoff

Famagusta City (in a house with no PTP, yet!)

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 16:04

as long as the fraudsters and charlatans go unpunished they and the lack of action by police ang sucsessive governments bring shame on the trnc.



at the request of pauline read a facebook group has again been set up as the bank complained and got the last one closed





http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=107163066005030

silcuty21


Joined: 24/05/2010
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 18:07

so sorry and so sad i dont know what i would do i really feel for these people it could be us next

and that s scary



sylv

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 18:19

Honestie msg 114 - "geoff I think you are confused . You say the contracts always had to registered within 3 months where did you get that one from? "



Again I am convinced that geoff is either from the south or Mars!! One thing none of us was ever told - "your contract had to be stamped and registered in 21 days of signing"



That is why the amnesty was brought in in 2008, to give people the opportunity to get legal. It still makes no difference unless there is a memorandum or mortgage at the time of registration. Problem is when there is an on going court case started before 2008. If a judge grants a memorandum or other it still goes on file but you probably would not be told until they come to take your property.



Also there are known case where mortgages have still been granted on properties even when registered, how??? Do you really need to ask?

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 20:33

Msg 144



David in the antiquated specific performance law for legal proceedings contracts have to signed stamped and registered and there is a time limit of think its 3 months to commence the proceeding and can ask the judge to make an order for the deeds to be transferred if you win that is.



so you see its impossible as thers no chance to start the proceedings within that time limit and needs to be challenged which I may be doing within my legal action,



registration was made law to stop the banks mortgaging but didnt cater for memorancums as we all know and if not mistaken if their is a mortgage taken out on land that has contracts registered its a criminal offence !! Im sure ismet will correct me if I am wrong and its what I have been legally informed as interpretation of legislation.



All contracts had to be stamped and tax paid the actual registration was made law in 2008. The amnesty as I was informed was in respect of the tax to be paid .

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 20:35

all contracts have to be signed and stamped for court use again not something told us by solicitors!

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 21:40

I am close to giving up the fight, you cannot win in a biased corrupt system.



We could go to court to get completion but we know the builder has no assets in HIS name. So we would spend time and money and in 5 years get a judgement in our favour, what would happen??



We would set up another Kulaksiz scenario of having people thrown out of thier homes because of a lieing cheating builder called Oskan Besok. Yes I keep repeating his name, I have given up any hope of him ever doing anything other than give us both an early death.



It is time all others in similar positions came out of the closet and nailed all the corrupt builders, banks, estate agents etc. Without that we may as well all give up as they will continue to hide in the anonimity of threats against buyers.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 22:34

David...they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.



I'm seriously concerned that your nightmare in the TRNC will actually kill you !



I'm not suggesting that you give up....you deserve justice....but please look after yourself and look at the bigger picture.



Cronos.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
06/08/2010 22:56

Thanks cronos.



It is more a feeling than actuallity, I am sure you know what I mean.



Now got to fight another potential auction for another site in Karsiyaka where markers have been called in. I will try to get info later from north cyprus forum site. They are been asked for £31k each house or they will be auctioned end of september.



Really does get us all down with this crooked dealing.



Say hi to better half,

David

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
07/08/2010 06:38

cyprusishome, £31k for a kocan or for a promise?

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
07/08/2010 07:07

malsancak,



My angry fingers at work, of course it is an extra £31k for each and every house to get their promised deeds or off to the auction. The owners are still working on their responses and will add further details when they decide what to do.



This is another of the hundred or so we knew were in the pipeline at the time of Kulaksiz auction and some just laughed it off as trouble making. I wish some would go to actually talk to the people involved instead of just spouting off with there idiot comments on forums.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 10:25

Paying the £31k each is probably the best way out for those given that option.

Geoff

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 10:41

Geoff, Did you read what cyprusishome said? They have to pay £31.000 by next Month. Of course everyone has that amount of money in there back pocket don't they?



Vicki

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 10:59

i bet even if they pay 31 k each there will be more to pay and i bet iys shared not full kochan so mre to pay there. of course the builder will have submitted electric plans an built a transformer house ?? no then another 5k each ++++

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 11:10

Who is to say that they will still get their title deeds? When they paid in full for their properties initially, the builder felt no need or moral obligation to hand them over then. With the law not demanding the handover of deeds on completion, how can anyone be sure that even if you pay the £30000 builders debts you will get your deeds?



Some appear to take blackmail very lightly! I am amazed that people like Geoff glibly suggest payment. Is this not simply supporting a system that allows people to pay in full for their properties and then be accountable for the builders debts? Even though these debts may have been run up in the casino or buying flash cars? Many builders have certainly not got their debts through their business dealings as they have left unstarted or unfinished houses, yet taken all the monies. What sort of long term strategy is that?

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 13:17

In reply to Britvic - obviously it depends on having the money available.

Funny though - they all had plenty of money when they first bought here at low prices compared to what many had sold their UK houses for - and I include myself in that.

Simples my friend, and SIMPLES it really is.

You'll no doubt have another pop at me - as though I care.

I am right though when I say, and said before, it is all our own silly greedy faults.

No more greedy that the banks and builders etc.

Geoff

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 13:37

geoff greed has nothing to do with it, we moved to a new country and paid the market price foe a property, i do noty think britvic david my self & others were silly in expecting the lawyers we trusted and paid to do a honourable job or the government to enforce existing laws to protect people.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 13:49

Geoff,



some people did not sell their UK house, they are maintaining two homes as they have not retired yet.



Are you actually saying that if you buy cheap you deserved to get swindled? Your logic amazes me!

What made you greedy? The purchase of a cheap house? Like everyone else who have bought in the TRNC?



"You'll no doubt have another pop at me - as though I care"



Sums you up. You don't care, because its not happened to you and your blatantly obvious attitude of "I'm alright Jack" is evident in all your posts.



Would the real reason for you doing your best to blame buyers, rather than the perpetrators, be that you are becoming worried about your investment? All this bad publicity isn't helping? Tough, that's what you get for buying in a thieves paradise! You made the choice.



This effects you too but you are too arrogant and blinded to to see this.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 13:53

geoff why not stay where you are in RoC, you are well sussed now.



You have proven conclusively that you have no idea about what is happening in TRNC nor about how builder, developers, lawyers and bankers are working together with governments tacit approval to scalp as many people as they can.



Many people came here afer selling their UK homes to settle for retirment so your statement - "Funny though - they all had plenty of money when they first bought here at low prices compared to what many had sold their UK houses for" is just total hogwash. The difference between buying and selling was the nest egg to live on while retiring early.



Keep posting by all means but as I said we all know what you are now and I will say no more to you and hope others have the same sense.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:08

Geoff....you are obviously having a whale of a time as a keyboard agent provocateur,winding people up on this forum.



The problem is Geoff,these people don't deserve your scorn,platitudes or cod philosophy about life.



What has the comparitive price of houses in UK and TRNC got to do with anything?

As Jimmykibris said ,people paid the full market price for their property in the TRNC....why does this make them greedy?



Little things please little minds Geoff...so by all means carry on posting your spite and vitriol from your place in "Gazimagusa"....but do expect us to treat your offerings with the contempt that they deserve.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:27

I really dont think Geoff if it is Geoff needs to even be aknowledged any longer as he is either just trying to upset people for whatever reason or just so unintelligent this is his only way of amusement. sad either way



No point going over it all again as this thread says it all and the intention is to keep us informed of this and other incidents. and if nothing else give moral support

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:28

Being relatively new to KKTC, I have recently read as much as I can on the case of Kulaksiz 5. I know I will upset a few people with this, but the recent article in the Kibris Gazetesi ; http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/popup.php/cat/2/news/99381/PageName/Ic_Haberler has certainly got me thinking again.



According to the article the court has ordered the builders to pay Pauline £120 000 for breach of contract. As we all know, the builders are no longer around … and Akfinans, unfarly I might add, own all the Kulaksiz 5 properties. Now as far as I can gather from the article, and even my TC fiance says it's unclear, the court has said that Pauline will get her £120 000 from Akfinans Bank, as soon as the property is sold.



Continuing to play devil's advocate here, but Pauline is not residing continuously at the house … and Akfinans Bank, in their defence, have not tried to enter any other properties on the Kulaksiz site.

jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:31

due to damp and unsafe life threatening conditions pauline moved out of her house on Kulaksiz 5 3 weeks before the auction .it was not a condition of the court victory paulins should be paid when the defunct property was sold .

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:40

Its not just Akfinans Bank doing this the Coop are at it as well!





http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2009/10/31/trnc-koop-bank-seeks-to-make-people-homeless/

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:43

Continuing to play Devil's Advocate ... the sum of £120 000 is no small sum ... it would seem to me that in awarding this to Pauline, the court is saying we understand that you are having a rough time living there - Let us award you this sum of money, so that you can buy another place where you would feel happier.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 15:14

msg 162 what bits got you thinking again

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 15:19

If Pauline & Chris received their money they may be happy.



However this is TRNC and nobody, to my knowledge has won a case here and received any payment close to the court awarded amount. In fact most folk win and receive nothing!!!!! So you must accept the cynicism that they are likely to receive their money, NOT!!!!!



If you know anything about the TRNC over the last 5 years then you must know these facts, if not then I am afraid you have an awful lot to learn.



Crumpy, playing Devils Advocate, are you renting? If not is your place completed? Do you have deeds?

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 16:04

Cyprusishome, I don't know if you are mocking me by using the phrase "Playing Devil's Advocate", but according to Wikipedia I was indeed "testing the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure."



I think Akfinans Bank behaved very badly in giving mortgages, without checking the securities being offered by the borrowers. I think Akfinans Bank also behaved badly in charging an extortionate rate of interest on the loans. I also think Akfinans Bank should have acted more quickly when they realised that the loan wasn't being repaid. However, as much as I WANT to fully support your case, I think the court, in awarding £120 000 to Pauline, has behaved very fairly. If and when I start reading reports about other peoples' houses being seized, then I will willingly join you outside their properties, to prevent this happening.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 16:20

You will get your wish very soon as there are at least 100 auctions in the pipeline one consisting of about 200 homes. Then there is the one pending in Girne that was postponed from last month involving a Cypriot widow in her sixties, I say postponed because talking to family last week no progress has been made despite promises from bank and builder.



If you think Paulines award is fair then you will be in a minority. I hope you have read the full story of this site going back to 2005.



We look forward to seeing you not only at auctions but at predicted protests that are going to start happening if the government do not act.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 16:46

crumpy



the court awarded the money to be paid back by who?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 16:55

Crumpy,



Why dont you just sit there in your blissful divorced state and leave well alone the one person who has almost singlehandedly



fought for the rights of people in The TRNC. David has sufferred it, seen it, protested about , and lead the long awaited



battle cry by the people of the TRNC who are being dispossessed of their homes and their life times savings .If that doesnt



deserve all our support I dont know what does .Get off the guys back. He has enough to contend with without your ill balanced



opinions. Do you really think Pauline will live to see her award paid?



This is s a scam which is fully supported by The TRNC Government. If it wasnt they would do something about it.



wyn

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:15

Cyprusishome, with regards to msg 169, yes over the last month I have read virtually everything there is on this case, including those articles written in Turkish ... and now feel well informed on the case.



Yes, if I sense that the TC widow (or anyone else for that matter) is having their property unjustly seized, then I will willingly follow through on my promise to join you at such protests. Furthermore, if, after Pauline's house is sold and the £120 000 is not paid to her, then I would attend protests outside Akfinans Bank and the appropriate courtrooms.



But as it stands, no one as yet has had their house unjustly seized ... and yes, I feel the court's decision for Pauline to receive £120 000, to allow her to live in another house, is fair.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:16

Wyn



You are too generous in your praise. I like a number of others do our best to keep the momentum going regarding problems here. We are not likely to loose our home like some however we are probably never going to get mains water or electric!!



Has anybody else seen the comment in today's Kibris. Has been translated on North Cyprus Forum and is a message from FCO that Pauline Reed is best advised to leave the TRNC. No other detail or sources given.



Would one of our TC friends advise please.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:17

Crumpy, please do not make any more assumptions about pauline read, if you read what she has written

especially for you, on North Cyprus Free Press, you will be better informed to give opinions.

With rgard to Cyprusishome, he has worked tirelessly for others in distress over the entire property

market fiasco and I know despite his own problems he will continue to do so, as will Pauline.

Give Christine a big hug from me David.



The people at Karisyaka who are just facing possible auction need our support and I hope you are

all up for it. I'll be there, so will Chris and Pauline, dodging cars!!



Crumpy your article will be in later today or tomorrow, dont miss it.



Geoff, You obviously are a plant (0r a vegetable) haven't made up my mind yet.



Keep sleuthing.



pollymarples

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:29

If something looks too good to be true, then in most probably is.

Unlike most contributors on here we have two properties, one in the ROC just over the border, and one in Famagusta. Having sold our 2 houses in UK 9 years ago.

The problems on both sides of the Cyprus divide are similar, in that expats like us lot have been ripped off, in a variety of different ways.

I think the latin phrase that apples is "caveat emptor"

Happy Ramadan everyone.

Geoff

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:31

BTW, I am entitled to my opinions and o expesss then on here as much as anyone else is. We won't always agree, but often out of debate and criticism comes progress.

Geoff

matula


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 647

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:41

msg 175 The phrase that comes to my mind is



I am deleting your highly offensive phrase for obvious reasons

Simbas

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:47

geoff you didnt want this thread to continue as you said its served its purpose.

You obviously do want it to continue but not sure why you contribute to it as theres nothing informative supportive or helpful. Lucky you .Two houses in cyprus at least one ias in the EU you may have your redress

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 18:07

Pauline has responded to "crumpy"'s promise that "if, after Pauline's house is sold and the £120,000 is not paid to her, then I would attend protests outside Akfinans Bank and the appropriate courtrooms" to point out that Akfinans Bank HAS ALREADY bought her property at the auction and that she has not been paid the £120,000 and much much more at http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/08/north-cyprus-two-tiered-legal-system/

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
08/08/2010 18:38

Crumpy google North Cyprus Free Press it is on for you titled NORTH CYPRUS 'two tiered legal system'



David have no fear Pauline and Chris are going nowhere. The FOC did tell them they should leave

the island for their own safety. Pauline told me they have been very supportive and have phoned

and e mailed her several times. I'm looking for two burly body guards to look after them, and when

they are not busy I hope to borrow them!!! Can't blame a girl for trying.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 00:18

i will lend her guido and i will find another heavyweight to look after her and you. i just cant beleive what im reading. thought we had it bad but this well words fail me x

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 01:39

Dear Pauline,



Sorry I'm a bit late in replying, but I'm just back from an evening out with friends As I wrote in msg 162, the article in Kibris Gazetesi (even according to my TC fiance) was vague in explaining as to where the sum of £120 000 was coming from. If as you state in http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/08/north-cyprus-two-tiered-legal-system/ the money is to be taken from "property and land still in the builders’ name", then yes, it is indeed unlikely that you will be receiving the said money ... and so under those circumstances, you get my full support.



Thank you Pauline for clarifying the situation, and thank you also for being so courteous in replying - I have to say in response to Wynyardman though, that my marital status has absolutely nothing to do with all this, so please refrain from such comments in future (msg 171).



As you can see Cyprusishome, "playing Devil's Advocate" can often enable one to fully understand the story.

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 05:18

Hi again Pauline ... I'm still trying to get my head around this:



You wrote in your article that the money "could eventually come from a (Kulaksiz) pot." Akfinans (horrible people that they are) would seem MORE confident (that you will soon be receiving that money) ... or else they wouldn't have changed the locks on only your house.



Seeing as the pot, your lawyer has found, is not bottomless, Akfinans probably feel that this money should instead be paid to them ... after all it is the Akfinans loan to Kulaksiz that started all this.



Let's presume that your lawyer does a wonderful job for you and you do get the money from the said pot. Would it then be your intention to try to stay on in the house? You have to admit that under such circumstances the court would probably rule in favour of Akfinans seizing your house :-(



I am aware that, as before, this post will not please some of you, but I would appreciate it if members didn't reply questioning my naivety etc.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 07:20

Hi Crumpy.



You sound like a nice person, but I am afraid you are still mising some of the plot.



Firstly, Akan Kursat Akfinans Advocate, knows that Pauline has not had the money because she told him.

face to face in a meeting on the 23rd July, a week before he, in company with a Akfinans Bank Manager

and a locksmith, using a small boy as lookout

broke into her villa and changed her locks. Two separate legal opinions have said this was a criminal act

without an court order, he did not have one. The vehicular attack, lets not forget and Advocate was also

involved in that criminal offence. With his experience in the court procedure he is also aware

how long the process takes and that it might never happen.



Paulines house is A health hazard for her personally because of her medical condition and is also

structurally unsound . If as I say. your words crumpy - if you were a regular reader of North Cyprus Free

Press, you would know I am Paulin's alter ego and the one

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 07:21

cont



she sends out sleuthing when she is looking for evidence for her stories. In short I get all the dirty

jobs - I know all the facts and Pauline's every thought. We are Geminis after all. Pauline

would never knowingly publish anything that was a lie.



Strange you think a debt that started as 100,000 Tl in 2005 and is now 2,400,000 TL 2010 because

of the 80% quarterly interest applied by Akfinans is all the fault of Kulaksiz, surely such a mafia style

rate also puts blame on the bank?? Me I am an equal opportunities girl, I loathe them all with a

vengence.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 08:35

In reply to Honestie, Msg 178: Well that is right, I did say I thought this thread had served its useful purpose and should now be closed. I also agreed it would be useful if it was made a "sticky" as a warning to newcomers to the TRNC who might be prospective property purchasers. However, as the thread has not been closed I will feel free to continue to participate and try to put the other side of the argument. I see "Crumpy" is getting popped at now, same as I was. So be it. Mustn't let the facts get in the way of the truth must we!? However unpalatable that truth may be to some. I agree with everyone else that those developers, banks, solicitors, who have ripped expats off SHOULD be brought to book. But I doubt they will be here, anymore than they have been in the South where similar problems exist. This is a CYPRUS problem, not just a TRNC problem. There are problems in Spain too, and Bulgaria. A lot of it is "our" own fault, "buyers beware",

Geoff

Famagusta City

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:03

Geoff, some say that the results of everything we do is our responsibility. If I buy ham from a UK butcher who had inadvertently infected it with salmonella and got I sick then I suppose "buyer beware" would apply. When my grand-father got addicted to cigarettes before there was a link with cancer then I suppose "buyer beware" applies there too. Luckily, the law disagrees with you and in the first case the seller should "be aware." Some buyers here have bought the services of UK qualified lawyers who they thought would be aware of mortgages on the property they were conveyancing. These buyers were in my grandfather's situation when he bought cigarettes but once it was established that smoking kills then smokers are in the "buyer beware" category. Pauline did not know that the legal services she bought would not establish the presence of a mortgage. Those buying now however are definitely in your "buyer beware" category. NO KOCAN, NO MONEY!

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:06

msg 177 edited for reason given

Simbas

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:22

Thank you Polly for your kind words.



With regards to my opinion of Akfinans, let me repeat what I wrote in msg 168 -

"I think Akfinans Bank behaved very badly in giving mortgages, without checking the securities being offered by the borrowers. I think Akfinans Bank also behaved badly in charging an extortionate rate of interest on the loans. I also think Akfinans Bank should have acted more quickly when they realised that the loan wasn't being repaid." And further to that Polly, its actions on the evening of July 31st are more akin to those of the mafia.



However, it would seem that you have avoided my question (in msg 183) - "Let us presume you (Pauline that is) end up receiving the money from the Kulaksiz pot - Would it then be your intention to try to stay on in the house?" Your comment in msg 184 that Pauline's house is "a health hazard for her personally because of her medical condition" would suggest to me that Pauline, on receiving the money, would indeed move on.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:33

re msg 183/189 pauline has stated in her NCFP article:

"on receipt of my award or an official Eviction Order, whichever comes first, I will, as a law abiding person, deliver my keys to my Advocate so that she could make sure they were given to the appropriate person."

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/07/more-north-cyprus-banks-to-auction-paid-for-properties-who-can-you-trust/

Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:50

Thank you for clarifying that Malsancak - Let's hope it is the award she gets and not the eviction order.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 10:46

Oh Dear, I must be loosing the plot totally, people are being nice to me!!!!!! This especially as I do not know them, one even wanting me to hug other half. At the moment I take care on that particular front, too much money has been spent.



So, where is all this talk going to get us? Will anybody turn out with my 10 other colleagues at the next protest action? I know there was a good turn out for Kulaksiz but couple of weeks later the number had dropped by 75% for next auction.



The only way others will listen is in regular mass protesting, making sure the foreign press turn out and a fully detailed information sheet made available in all languages used here.



The government are fully aware of what is said on these forums and what notice is taken - who we all are and that is it. So I hope that I see everyone out at the next call to arms and we can get to know each other.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 10:58

Geoff/Msg 186: 'A lot of it is "our" own fault, "buyers beware",'



The naivity of your postings is becoming rather annoying and tiresome.



Why don't you wise up and pipe down?



'A wise old owl lived in an oak,

The more he heard, the less he spoke.

The less he spoke, the more he heard.

Why can't we be like that wise old bird?'

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 11:41

cyprusishome, could someone to email NCFP the full details of the case so an article can be published? Or point me to where the information is? I've been out of action for a few months, working and then playing with grandchildren so don't know the details. I rely on people like Pauline Read to write articles rather than write them myself.

10 people only, what about Home Buyers Pressure Group? Is it time to form an alternative organisation which focuses on issues such as the time it takes to get PTP and the mortgage/auction problem?

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
09/08/2010 15:46

Be fair Cypruishome , you know Pauline was at the next auction, you hid her camera for her when she was

being pursued by one of the secret sercie men who's photo she accidentally took,,,oopss...



She also appeared on the TV news that day condemning the daughter of the builder involved who

was running for public office in Girne (she didnt get elected) She was on the front page of Yeni Duzen

on Monday with the headline Tragedy. She wrote an article and it was published on NCFP

within a short time of auction finish. She was in America when the next one took place or she would

have been present (did it go ahead?).



Crumpy, I know it would be time consuming but if you really want to keep up with the Kulaksiz 5

look back in the archives, I know Pauline has written in excess of 60 articles.



One final comment. Pauline knowsshe cannot have her cake and eat it - it would have been the villa

or the award.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
10/08/2010 06:15

Pauline has asked me to tell you, the only way she feels she can cope is to inject a little humour into

her articles ergo her life. She knows she has to see the irony and the very serious side of things

but she also knows if she give in to the urge to scream, she might never stop.



David, we all know you have been totally unselfish in your support of others, inlcuding Pauline and she

thinks it is time we all gave your problem attention.



Pauline says ' I know you will have exhausted every avenue you

can personally. Strength is in numbers, every person still on builders electricity, every person still on

tankered water needs to pull together. Forget the builder and land owners, they are either gone or

unwilling to help. Target the people who can change it - Kib Tek and your beledeysi



David Kib tek and the beleydesi, can if they have the will, do the right thing. So we have to become

such a bally nuisance they will do it to make us go away.'

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/08/2010 12:40

pollymarples,



A very good posting. Lets hope that you all get the support you deserve. A little humour keeps the spirit high and allows people to battle on. This is predominantly a British problem, and we must support our own. Well done!



wyn

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
10/08/2010 13:17

geoff message 186



'A lot of it is "our" own fault, "buyers beware",'



Its people like you will stop any change ,by ,with your statement telling all the lawyers,Govt officials ,etc that they are not to blame and its all our own fault.

Honestly,so many people come to NC and with a bit of sun and the drink,lose sense of morality that comes with an 'im alright Jack atitude.'

Its theft, and condoned by vested interest within the system,and I was taught that stealing was wrong.

The system is corrupt ,short of Turkey enforcing direct rule ,there is no cure,but at least dont give those involved the satisfaction of thinking we are stupid and dont recognise the corruption for what it is.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
10/08/2010 13:32