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Police called after Akfinans Bank late night visit to Kulaksiz 5

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malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:35

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Message 1 of 768 in Discussion

Pauline Read has published an article after Akfinans Bank visited her home last night, changed the lock and then nearly injured her partner whilst leaving the scene. Read more at http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/07/31/police-called-after-akfinans-bank-employees-late-night-visit-to-kulaksiz-5/



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:41

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Message 2 of 768 in Discussion

gosh thats so awful.what are they trying to achieve now. was it only paulines house they called on x



cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 09:47

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Message 3 of 768 in Discussion

police need to show some back bone here and do their job properly



i normally sing their praises but on this occasion i will not



everyone should boycott this bank right now in protest



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:18

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Message 4 of 768 in Discussion

as I understand it, only Pauline's house was targeted but they may have been looking for unoccupied houses only and Pauline's was the first on the list.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:27

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Message 5 of 768 in Discussion

Yet again.....wholly unconscionable and seemingly illegal actions from Akfinans bank. If you change the locks again , will you



have done anything wrong? Will they call the police?



I thought that we had been told that The Government had stepped in and sorted out Kulaksiz-5 issue? Was this yet again another TRNC rumour, without any factual basis?.



WHATEVER Cancel your accounts with this bank if you have any conscience!



wynyardman



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:29

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Message 6 of 768 in Discussion

The way this (appalling) incident is handled will be very revealing.



tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:41

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Message 7 of 768 in Discussion

Im surprised cause your complaining about those actions . YOU choose to live in this so called country that is by any means illegal (and you know it) with no rules or laws to protect you . I cannot believe you dident see that coming.

keep your heads down there are more coming.

the police dident question the eye WITNESSES why ?

If you have the number plates of the cars why they dident arrest those people ?

why they police dident ask any questions about the "hit and run" ?



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:48

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Message 8 of 768 in Discussion

I think the Godfather has a hand in this.



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
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Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:56

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Message 9 of 768 in Discussion

Tracer. If you think the dark-side is any better then you need brain surgery.

God help us all if they ever get together. Anyone know where I can get an application to join the Mafia – if you can’t beat them join them.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 10:58

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Message 10 of 768 in Discussion

tracer wrote "with no rules or laws to protect you." That's strange considering I feel safer in the TRNC than I do in the UK. I guess it must be down to how nice Turkish Cypriots are and so there is no need for rules and laws.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 11:03

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Message 11 of 768 in Discussion

Yesterday a member of the Constructors Union received a phone call, calling the members (or the committee, not sure) same day to consider the Akfinans matter. According to this member, Kulaksiz borrowed some money from the bank and allegedly signed blank papers. No excuse if you ask me. The more serious allegation is that the interest rate was 250% p.a. and capitalization every three months i.e. 597.29% per year. I don't think this is correct but if it is so, it should have been argued in court that the bank had acted irresponsibly and misused the trust of his client. I don't rreally have enough information about the legal background of this case.

ismet



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 11:25

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Message 12 of 768 in Discussion

A very succinct and pragmatic assessment, 'elko2'!



Nobody could convince me that nepotism did not influence the final court decision that allowed this despicable and blatant fraud to be, seemingly successfully, enacted.



Better to have sacrificed one [allegedly] corrupt bank, or as many as it takes, rather than the entire TRNC's reputation, and with it, the country's economy.



ricooper123


Joined: 14/04/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 11:45

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Message 13 of 768 in Discussion

I think the whole episode of the police action in this matter is a bit suspect???????????????



Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 11:49

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Message 14 of 768 in Discussion

Tracer. a friend of mine lived in the South and came on a day trip to the north. The day after he was asked to go to the police station as there was a problem with his car. On arrival he was told there was no problem with the car BUT they asked why he was looking at property agents in the North and his reply that he was just comparing prices ( the truth ) was not accepted and he and his wife were detained for several hours and questioned as though they had commited murder.

When he told his neighbour, a Greek Cypriot, about this his neighbour told him he should leave as the police would not leave him alone .

He did.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 12:04

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Message 15 of 768 in Discussion

Cardi, perhaps your friend's story didn't ring true to the police? Perhaps he was hoping to fill his car up with cheap cigarettes and take them south? I doubt we'll know the full story.



briano


Joined: 05/05/2009
Posts: 32

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 12:32

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Message 16 of 768 in Discussion

Hang on, how would Police in the south know what someone in the north had been doing on their day trip?



That a GC neighbour should suggest he leaves the country is absurd; I think your friend was being very imaginative heere!



barnaclebill


Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 303

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 12:49

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Message 17 of 768 in Discussion

One of the GC Meterhan police officers used to regularly fish from the pier near the Dome He was always a miserable g-t when on duty and when he was rude I often thought the next time I see you fishing you are going over the wall,LOL,I never did though.My point is though you never no who is watching .

BB



Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:05

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Message 18 of 768 in Discussion

It is quite amazing that when someone says somthing on here there are quite a few who cant wait to come on and infer that their story's are lies.

The people I refered too now live here. They Rent. This was about five years ago and the police from the south would come over in unmarked cars and would make a note of GC cars near estate agents. perhaps they still do.

i was held up at the border for about 40 minutes because I had a book with estate agents ads in. It was the Tourist Guide to North Cyprus.



Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 15:07

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Message 19 of 768 in Discussion

Said it twice due to finger problem



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
31/07/2010 22:31

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Message 20 of 768 in Discussion

How can anyone feel safe in the TRNC when the police can act like this?



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 07:42

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Message 21 of 768 in Discussion

msg 16,



It is still a potential probelm that if you land in RoC and travel north and you have documents realating to ANY properties in the TRNC you stand a chance of being arrested or at best interviewed for several hours.

There are massive amounts of stories on internet of people who flew into RoC with GC or Greek Airlines and had been talking on the flight about their potential moveing to TRNC. Those people then found themselves being interviewed by police on landing.



Sorry but after 5 years I know these events happen, not as often now but a sad indictment of the mentallity of some.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 08:47

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Message 22 of 768 in Discussion

Must be more to all this! What was the Bnk's motives? What is the background to this property? Is there a miortgage on it? Has a PTP been obtained? etc. Is it a new/ish house with a developer pulling the strings perhaps? Are the owners residents of the TRNC, or is the property a holiday home?

Geoff



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:00

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Message 23 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff, have you been asleep this past year?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:22

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Message 24 of 768 in Discussion

and now they are accusing Pauline Read of trespassing, see http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/01/akfinans-bank-police-accuse-pauline-read-of-trespassing/



tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:46

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Message 25 of 768 in Discussion

troodo

want to join mafia? try africans bank or asil nadir.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 09:54

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Message 26 of 768 in Discussion

jimmykibris, that's the NCFP story copied and pasted by north cyprus forum instead of supplying a link to us.



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:28

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Message 27 of 768 in Discussion

in view of message 22 and for people to see a bigger picture the link to the full story on 1 thread was posted there is a link to the ncf article at the bottom of the thread i believe.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:36

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Message 28 of 768 in Discussion

malsancak,

I have just read the latest from Pauline and I feel quite sick.



These bank employees are working with, I am sure the knowledge of those in charge of the country. I am afraid the rules of the forum do not allow me to say how I really feel!



If Eroglu and Kucuk do not respond early this coming week we know that this is a deliberate attempt to destroy the English community spririt in the hope we will leave. I think now we have got to bring out that English (UK) spirit and fight back with anything we are able.



If the scum do present a date and time for Pauline & Chris (why not the rest of the site - rhetorical I think) to be evicted then there will be a mass mobilisation. The scum will be shown the full force of an ex-pat back lash, we are all sick of being treated like dirt.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:40

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Message 29 of 768 in Discussion

I was just making the point to readers that the msg 25 link is not the original article written by Pauline Read and published by her on NCFP. I've not read the North Cyprus Forum article in full, it appears to be a direct copy of her article, but be aware that it may have been changed so that what Pauline intended to write may be misreported there.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:51

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Message 30 of 768 in Discussion

The point Pauline is making is that so far Akfinans Bank has worked within the law but the lock changing escapade seems to have been the first illegal step they've taken. As is sometimes the case, police are misinformed of the law by influential private citizens and act upon that information, as in the case of the trespass accusation and the refusal to investigate a criminal damage and dangerous driving case. Hopefully when Pauline's representatives contact those who should know better, an apology will be forthcoming, and an investigation launched as to why the police decide to act in the way they did. I should image that the only thing the police are guilty of is of being deliberately misinformed.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 10:54

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Message 31 of 768 in Discussion

No, I have not been asleep for the last year or whatever. And from the recent postings to this thread I am still no wiser as to what caused the problem/s in this particular case.

Was the house fully paid for and registered in the purchaser's name?

Had a PTP been issued?

Was money owed to the bank by anyone in respect of this property?

This is a forum where we can discuss most things, but constructive debate is only possible if we have all sides to the story, with no bias.

We cannot, for example, offer help if we don't knosw what exactly we are helping with

Geoff

Famagusta City



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 11:05

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Message 32 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff







theree is again a facebook group created today by request Shame on Akfinans Bank & their directors





http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?members&gid=107163066005030#!/group.php?gid=107163066005030



so it can not be clsed easily most if not all who join will be able to upload photos and be admins of the group



gardenmaker


Joined: 01/09/2008
Posts: 170

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 11:53

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Message 33 of 768 in Discussion

who needs mafia when you got the geek (not a misspell) orthodox church they make the mafia look like pussycats HYPOCRITES



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 12:14

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Message 34 of 768 in Discussion

i am in thr process of upoadin lots of press cuttings to the facebook group



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 12:26

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Message 35 of 768 in Discussion

This article about Friday night's incident appeared in Kibris Star yesterday http://www.starkibris.net/index.asp?haberID=66127



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
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Message Posted:
01/08/2010 12:40

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Message 36 of 768 in Discussion

thanks jo and jelly it is now on the facebook group page



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 13:03

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Message 37 of 768 in Discussion

nothing changed malc no one misreported there. just the full story on 1 thread easy to follow



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
01/08/2010 13:39

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Message 38 of 768 in Discussion

thanks for checking jimmykibris.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
01/08/2010 13:45

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Message 39 of 768 in Discussion

I don't read (can't) Turkish So Msg 35's article no use to me. I do NOT use Facebook as I scared of identity fraud.

Why cannot someone put the full facts of this case on here, in English?

Geoff



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 13:57

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Message 40 of 768 in Discussion

geoff



as good as it is this forum is it is a a little limited ie only 1000 characters per post and no photos there are many photos and press cuttings all on 1 thread so people can see the full story.



i understand the reluctance of some to use facebook but as far as I can see there is a pretty full picure of the situation on the link no chance of identity theft on the link .



it is important people get behind this as a community it could be any one of us next.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 14:02

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Message 41 of 768 in Discussion

"Just to update you thru Malcolm. I am particularly interested in elkos

msg#11. We have also heard about the initial interest Akfinans Bank

charged being much higher than the 80% quarterly compound we all know about.

We all balked at that. The point is that despite numerous attempts to

get a copy of the original loan agreement, we have been thwarted at

every turn. What do they have to hide??



Anyone who does not know the complete story and I promise you, we are

completely blameless, if you troll the archives of North Cyprus Free

Press you can get chapter and verse.



Chris and I are still free but yesterday was touch and go as to

whether they would arrest us. It seems you can attempt to run someone

over if you work for Akfinans Bank, but you will be arrested if you

walk, even in the garden, of your own

house. How does that work for you? I think I was targetted because

I am just too lippy.



Thank you all for your support"





Pauline Read - bent but not



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
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Message Posted:
01/08/2010 14:13

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Message 42 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff re your message 39. Are you being purposely pedantic/provocative (not sure which fits best)? We are trying to fight for our homes on a daily basis (next group meeting 3pm today) and we simply do not have the time to retype everything for you here. You have been told more than once by a number of posters how you can find out this information. We would appreciate your support so please do make the effort to at least follow the link in message 40.

Thanks.

Jo



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 16:25

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Message 43 of 768 in Discussion

Like many of you I am appalled at how this bank is acting, but more shocked by the apathy of the police. This got me wondering as to how many of the TCs feel about all this. With this in mind I read the comments below the article in yesterday's Star http://www.starkibris.net/index.asp?haberID=66127.



Allow me to translate the points made by the "Vatansver KKTC" and "Turkish Friend" : Firstly Vatansever writes than "We Cypriots fought for this land" and then TF warns Chris that "tomorrow evening the locks on his bedroom door could well be changed", adding further "we TCs didn't buy our homes with sterling - we fought in the mountains."



Obviously not all TCs think in this way, but it does give one an idea as to why the Kulaksiz 5 are getting such a raw deal.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 16:41

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Message 44 of 768 in Discussion

They reap what they sow:



http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?msg=commentsaved&n=north-cyprus-property-sales-stagnate-2010-07-29



Yet they still do not see their own actions as being the reason for this decline.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 16:47

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Message 45 of 768 in Discussion

For whatever reason my comments were not displayed so I will post her instead.



The developers have lost the plot! The sole reason people are no longer buying in the TRNC is because IT IS NOT SAFE TO DO SO!

Bad publicity highlighting the many scams that occur and the lack of legal protection and Government intervention are the reasons. Too many people have been burnt and the horror stories are well documented.



The advocates, builders and Government have failed to take constructive action to prevent the corruption and fraud endemic in the TRNC and they are now reaping the seeds they have sown..... a 50% fall in property sales. This is however just the start of the decline. This decline began when people stopped buying off plan thinking it too risky. It then became don't buy PRE 74 because foreigners will not get PTP.When auctions and memorandums occurred it was the last straw.



Developers and Government have killed the goose that laid the golden egg and have only themselves to



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:27

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Message 46 of 768 in Discussion

spot on messagae 42 there are photos press cutting and opinions on the link lets hope TOGETHER we can bring this to the FOREFRONT of trnc politics again.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:28

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Message 47 of 768 in Discussion

I may be just looking at things without trying to be political but the south side has many problems too so this doesnt appear to be just a Turkish cyp problem its about corrupt greedy criminal people and if by that it includes advocates, government, construction ,police so be it but that is what it is.



It does happen in other countries too as we know but at the moment we (or should I say I) or anyone who is going to loose their home, is going to fight the cause and the corrupt actions against us.



For the ones lucky to have had good honest buiders etc then that is good for them but its not just to do with them having done homework there was some luck.



If youre not in that position and therefore it doesnt matter it does! as the support from everyone in doing whatever we can to change it and I would add for the better of the TRNC



This situation is not just about TC not wanting us here ,it may be ,but my opinion is its about the greedy corrupt ones who exist in any country



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:34

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Message 48 of 768 in Discussion

just the ones here know they are on a winner as the law protects them not us.



We didnt buy here to get at the politics we are in a foreign country we may like things changed sometimes when we see the litter etc but we knew that when we came. We didnt come here to be cheated out of our homes and to add insult to injury be treated like the criminal.



I feel for you all I am in court proceedings myself I may be lucky but we must all be together on this one whats going to be the next thing they are going to do. I hope we can come get something together to stop this



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:44

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Message 49 of 768 in Discussion

Well at long last, Msg 40's link gives me some info. It may take folks a while to type in stuff on here, but it is always appreciated.

I was NOT trying to be in anyway provocative, I just expect all info to be on OUR forum.

I hope the ex-Squadron Leader wins the day,

Geoff



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:48

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Message 50 of 768 in Discussion

geoff msg 39



I am going to break the rules here, you are either totally thick or illeterate.



People are fighting for their lives here and you appear to be taking the p***. All the links have been posted in this thread for you to follow the story which has been running in Cyprus Today, NCFP and on this and every other forum for best part of this year.



Now msg 40 has a link that will tell you all you need to know along with the several other links posted on this thread. Nobody needs to post anymore on this thread for you to get that msg.



TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:57

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Message 51 of 768 in Discussion

It appears that it's one rule for the people, one rule for the organisations.

When I had trouble with squatters I changed the locks and the Police threatend to arrest ME if I didn't give the squatters a key. They were deadly serious as it was from an officer who spoke immaculate English with perfect grammar, so there could be no confusion in the line the Police were willing to take.

What's the difference between me and the agent acting on behalf of Akfinans Bank who hasn't been granted any rights by a court to reposses his property? None, I say. Which takes me straight back to "one rule for the people, one rule for the organisations".



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 17:57

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Message 52 of 768 in Discussion

geoff



because of the constraints of this forum it is not possible to put all the information on here in a concise and coherent way on occasions any information you may need can be found at http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com a good site for information but to get a full picture may involve searching or going into archives the link gives you a chronological view of events as they unfolded I am sue TOGETHER ALL THE FORUMS and ncfp can bring this to the fore of turkish and TRNC NEWS







this is not about glory BUT HELPING PEOPLE KEEP THERE HOMES



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 18:09

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Message 53 of 768 in Discussion

message 51



Youre spot on as I also know that as have been in similar situation.I know that despite behaving within my legal rights and the TC behaving against them I was in the wrong! Just look at the Mary /Geoff situation which means we have to do something. I dont mind if Im treated differantly in certain things but loosing homes getting locked up nearly getting injured. sorry a step too far and the steps have to be stopped people have rights wherever lets not get involved in politics just rights and KEEPING OUR HOMES.



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:11

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Message 54 of 768 in Discussion

sticky please??



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:22

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Message 55 of 768 in Discussion

What sticky jam, fly paper or sticky fingers which is more appropriate to TRNC!!!!! LOL



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:23

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Message 56 of 768 in Discussion

check out http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=107163066005030



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:26

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Message 57 of 768 in Discussion

this is of such importance it needs to be a sticky



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 19:38

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Message 58 of 768 in Discussion

you are so right, it needs the worlds attention. we have also beeb bleed dry lets tell it as it is, oh mt god my thoughts are with that wonderful strong pauline and her agile man x



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 20:12

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Message 59 of 768 in Discussion

it is worth sticky for 14 days ( just my opinion)



please post any and all press notices/ articles you find on the topic.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 20:19

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Message 60 of 768 in Discussion

and any suggeations as to what anyone can do to bring this to the attention of anyone that will listen in government, papers here and in UK, etctelevision



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
Posts: 151

Message Posted:
01/08/2010 20:25

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Message 61 of 768 in Discussion

contibute to this thread it keeps it up on google hits join http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=107163066005030 and invite all your friends view and or join all of the above will keep it in the public eye publicity is the one thing the robbing bank hates



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 08:42

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Message 62 of 768 in Discussion

What constraints on here?

I fully support what is going on and agree expats/foreign buyers must stick together.

I might be thick matey, but I sure not stupid.

Geoff



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
02/08/2010 13:28

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Message 63 of 768 in Discussion

"It really is inconvenient to have to talk to you thru Malcolm, but that is the way it has to be.

Read North Cyprus Free Press today and you will see just how duplicitous the Bank and their Advocate really have been. I hear you say - how much worse can they get - I promise you a lot lot worse. Sorry I am drip feeding you information but I am up at 4.00 am liaising with our many alllies we have all over the world. There is a concerted campaign afoot.

I do thank Malcolm for making NCFP available to me and theKulaksiz 5 and I thank you all for your support.

Pauline - bent but not broken"

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/02/akfinan-banks-indecent-proposal-to-kulaksiz-5-north-cyprus-property-owners/



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 14:54

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Message 64 of 768 in Discussion

sorry Geoff it came across as stupid with the questions that you asked in message 22.



if you are a regular memeber of the forum which I presume you are and presume you read newspapers here then I fail to see how you asked asked the questions you did . It has been so well advertised here and in the news with the full details of the case I fail to see how anyone doesnt know.



You say theres to be more to it and there probably is, on underhand side of the bank etc a polite way of putting it,



This forum is for debate yes with full facts. They have already been given ,everywhere and to everyone This thread is now to bring this recent criminal appalling behiaviour to everyones attention again and am quite sure theres a lot going on behind the scenes we are not privvy to and Im sure you must know that. They and maybe many others have battled,lost still battling and hopefully will win with lots of support .



stupid hopefully not



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 16:40

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Message 65 of 768 in Discussion

I real point is, and you won't like it, is that there are usually two sides to every dispute.

I imagine this one will be no different!

Love,

Geoff



fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 16:53

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Message 66 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff



The two sides of the story:



Side 1 - Developer



Buys land and builds properties on aforementioned land.

Sells properties receiving payment in full.

Whilst the new 'owners' are waiting for the deeds, developer takes out loan with Afkinans bank.

Developer defaults on loans - actually never pays a single kurus.

Afkinans Bank sue developer for outstanding loan and accrued interest.

Developer unable to pay the bank so they place memorandums on the properties because as the deeds have yet to be issued to the owners, the properties are still in his name.

Properties auctioned and bought by the bank.

Developer walks away scot free.



Side 2 - Owners

Bought properties and paid in full.

Whilst awaiting issue of deeds, discover that memorandum has been placed on 'their' properties by Afkinans Bank.

Properties sold from under their feet and bought by the bank.





Geoff - clear enough ??



Paul



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 16:59

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Message 67 of 768 in Discussion











Geoff - clear enough!!!



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:03

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Message 68 of 768 in Discussion

Paul thank you for that spot on there are 2 sides



side 1: corrupt



side 2: legal



As paul said. Geoff clear enough and stupid hopefully not!!!!!!!



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:40

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Message 69 of 768 in Discussion

Thanks Pul,

did the buyer register the property in ther own name (necessary pre-issue of PTP and then the deeds)?

If yes they have a strong moral (I would have thought legal) case.

If no they have no case, and it ain't me who is stupid!

Simples.

Geoff



fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:56

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Message 70 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff



You would have to ask the buyers with regard to registering of the properties.



Regardless of whether they did or not, I am sure you would agree they have a strong MORAL case even if 'legally' (does such a word exist in the TRNC ?) their situation is more tenuous.



By the way, I was not inferring that you were stupid, merely trying to give a brief precis of the case for you as you appeared to be having difficulty in finding the details.



Paul



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 17:59

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Message 71 of 768 in Discussion

moral and legal dont go together here ! they have a strong moral case the strongest Ive heard and even when you have a strong legal case or so you think when you actually look at the legislation you realise you dont have a chance unless the judge is forward thinking.



Im not sure if correct ,but am sure will be corrected, but the government brought out the legislation in 2008 for all contracts to be stamped tax paid and registered at land registry inorder to stop the double selling and mortgages from the banks. In a lot of cases people boiught off plan before this date and didnt register the contacts nuntil the new legislation came in and too late for a lot of people as the mortgages had already been taken out in the time gap.



The registration of the contract is now supposed to give the purchaser some protection basically the same as an injunction but it doesnt in this present time protect from someone going to court to win a judgement against your builder/kocan holder



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 18:09

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Message 72 of 768 in Discussion

subsequently the aggrieved places a memo on the builders assets which is your home. With it so far.



these problems are coming to light since the people buying before 2008 hadnt had any protection aprt fro breach of contract and claiming for damages which if the builder hasnt got assets your stuffed.



I cant really understand how you are finding this so difficult to understan unless you have been lucky got your deeds without a problem ,or you rent .

they know they have a good moral case and they know legally it is good but we are in north cyprus and unless you stitch them to a contract theyh cant in amy way wriggle out of 9How I dont know) then thats it in a nutshell.



Not all have this problem there theres some good ones out there if youre one dealing with a unsrupulous builder solicitor etc then they certainly know how to do the stitching.



Im not sying youre stupid just have problem why you dont get if. or maybe Im being blonde and stupid and yep Im blonde



DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 18:17

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Message 73 of 768 in Discussion

Keep this thread at the top, it could be your locks next.

Reason? because they can and the police have been shown to be complicit.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
02/08/2010 19:12

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Message 74 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff,



you are mistaken if you think you are safe from memorandums because you registered your property.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 01:53

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Message 75 of 768 in Discussion

Bradus,



Lets not forget "injunctions" These can be taken out by anyone who feels they have a grievance, and they can be used to stop a kochan transfer, even if the builder wishes to do so. This then effectively leaves the property at the mercy of further "memorandi"



Nightmare!



wyn



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 08:26

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Message 76 of 768 in Discussion

and all because the government are unable to process Permission To Purchase applications in a timescale that would make NO KOCAN, NO MONEY! unnecessary. I read in Cyprus Today that they were blaming the Turkish military for this problem, saying it was their part of the process which was holding it up.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 08:43

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Message 77 of 768 in Discussion

Re Msgs Nos 70 and 74.

Well, this is the crux of it, and what I was getting at when I was accused on here of being all sorts of things, such as stupid, etc.

Simple question and those pushing one side of the story responding without apparently having all the facts.

The matter of Registration is but one issue, I could mention several others not addressed by this forum yet in respect of this very sad case..

Registration gives you SOME BETTER protection if it all ends up in a TRNC Court.

Put it this way! No registration for sure means NO chance of winning in Court.

These property issues always get everyone wound up - nasty developers, nasty TRNC, nasty estate agents,

nasty Solicitors, etc.

Buyers and their supporters always seem to blame everyone else but themselves!!

That is my feelings, this thread has, in my view, served its purpose and should now be closed.

Regards to all fellow free-thinkers and open debaters, and to those with no axes to grind,

Geoff

Famagusta City



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 08:47

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Message 78 of 768 in Discussion

Paul your message 66 is correct other than the builder did not buy the land he was given it by the landowner in exchange for 3 villas, 2 of which are currently lived in by the landowner's family. Builder took out the mortgage, landowner guaranteed it. All contracts were signed and the villas at the finishing stages when the mortgage was taken.

Contracts are registered but only since Jan 2008, over 2 years after the mortgage was taken.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 08:57

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Message 79 of 768 in Discussion

Re Msg 78: well there you go! I rest my case.

If folks want to support an injustice always go for a cast iron case. This one obviously is not, but it has taken us 78 postings to get to that conclusion. It is a sad case, indeed, but dodgy one to win in a Court, in my opinion.

Geoff



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 10:11

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Message 80 of 768 in Discussion

What are you talking about Geoff? If you are referring to the registration issue being after the mortgage then that is because the law was only changed in Jan 2008 to enable contracts to be registered. But then again, I'm sure you already knew that didn't you.

It's nice to know that you think people shouldn't support this injustice because the lack of laws in this country put buyers at risk. It may be a "dodgy" case to win in court but that is not the fault of the buyers.

Oh and by the way, there is no such thing as a cast iron case in the TRNC so that absolves you of supporting people in need. Nice one.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 10:35

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Message 81 of 768 in Discussion

joandjelly wrote "the builder did not buy the land he was given it by the landowner in exchange for 3 villas, 2 of which are currently lived in by the landowner's family"

If you are right then the contract to transfer the land to the builder has been broken when the landowner lost the payment they received for it, i.e. the villas! Which means the builder has lost their right to put a mortgage on it and for Akfinans to auction the land the builder has forfeited their right to... the law is not an ass it is a herd of asses!!! This is not the first time I've heard of this situation. This is the equivalent of paying for goods with counterfeit money, surely?



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 12:15

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Message 82 of 768 in Discussion

tWhat are you talking about Geoff msg 80



I totally agree what are you talking about Geoff.



You are right registration does give you some better protection if you go to court but as has been said on here so many times you must surely have understood, that before the law for registration of contracts which only came in in 2008, you just had to have your contract stamped and tax paid. Because of that there was apparantly no protection and was the time the mortgages were being taken out by the builders.the full scale of this has only come to light since the registration in 2008 and too late for many people.



Even so the registration does not stop memorandums being placed on your property whilst the kocan is in someone elses name.



So tell me who should we blame? Is it our fault that the homework with solicitors we got wrong! many of the solicitors have been trained in the uk and know UK system and TRNC system.The british system is used here just interpreted differantly!



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 12:18

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Message 83 of 768 in Discussion

You say there go I rest my case. What case do you have except you seem to have no understanding.



And as msg 80 states nice one you are a real help



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 14:20

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Message 84 of 768 in Discussion

If the government cannot protect you from the mortgage scam it makes you wonder if they'll take you into account if there is a settlement.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 17:57

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Message 85 of 768 in Discussion

These things are NOT black and white. You need to register your purchase within 3 months of purchase,

that has always been the case, incl prior to 2008.

Failure to do so, as in this case, means you have no protection against the bad guys.

To Register gives you SOME protection, possibly enough to tip the scales in Court in your favour.

Geoff



*** TIME THIS THREAD WAS CLOSED, IT HAS SERVED ITS PURPOSE ***



Let us find a case that is cast iron, and support it in Court. This case is legally flawed.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 18:21

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Message 86 of 768 in Discussion

It is a shame that this thread is hijacked yet again by a saddo from the south who rather than offer objective advice just keeps asking annoying questions and when he gets the answers decides to twist around to something else.



By all means close the thread but not beciase it serves no use but because of an idiot causing trouble for the sake of it.



ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 18:28

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Message 87 of 768 in Discussion

OK Geoff,



Heres a similiar type case for you as you seem to be 'Legal Eagle'



I am in a similiar position as the above development, my builder took out a mortgage for our development and yes there are 2 Landowners houses on it too. Now the bank has issued a memorandum against him as he spent the money at the Colony Casino (allegedly)



Where does your ideals for a cast iron case rest with that?



Yes the house is registered for all that did in 2008 as Lawyers excuse was that the 'paperwork' passed eachother!! So Stamp Duty was duly paid!



I and a lot of others face losing our houses , I bought mine in 2005 and have 99% paid for it.

yes worrying times and we are not the only ones having to suffer because of bank interest rates and builders spending the money unwisely.



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 18:52

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Message 88 of 768 in Discussion

You're right Geoff - Akfinans Bank is in its rights to take the properties ... that is, under the current system where a bank can offer a loan without thoroughly bothering to check the securities being offered by the borrower. As you state, the case of these unfortunate people is anything but "cast iron". Yes, they were rather naive not to insist on getting their Kocan at the earliest possible moment, but they didn't.



If a case were to be "cast iron", then by definition it wouldn't need any support. Legally these people have the odds stacked against them, but morally, even you must agree, they have done absolutely nothing wrong. The way to change such corrupt financial dealings here in North Cyprus is to put pressure on the current administration ... and thus we need such threads as this to keep people aware of unjustices being committed on this beautiful island.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:27

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Message 89 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy...."Yes, they were rather naive not to insist on getting their Kocan at the earliest possible moment, but they didn't. "



In the TRNC you cannont "insist" on getting your Kocan.

Even when you have got your PTP ( after how many years? ),and have paid in full , there is no law in the TRNC that obligates the landowner/builder to hand over the deeds if they don't feel like it.

It is a scandalous situation that is hard to believe.



wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:30

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Message 90 of 768 in Discussion

The law in the south and north have similar loop holes of deeds being mortgaged and/or not handed over to purchasers

If this were the Uk it would be called fraud by builder and or bank

I am not sure of criminal law in Cyprus but if someone sells property house or car to a third party and then goes on to raise money from a financier or bank on those sold goods the vendor has committed fraud .

The financier and or bank would then be out of pocket for their loan or guilty of complicity in the fraud

If the property is already mortgaged to the bank the solicitor should be disbarred and forced to pay compensation for not obtaining clear title for the property .

Shock in the roc a judge forced a solicitor to pay damages for lack of duty of care this was headline news

The law in Cyprus is no law at all

Like the russian doll there's always another one or twist when you think you,re home and dry

Pauline and all at K5 my heart goes out to you



wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:37

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Message 91 of 768 in Discussion

Cronos the same applies to the south unless they've passed the bill to please the eu not retrospectively

You can not demand your deeds there either and mortgages are taken out on them

About two years ago before all this hit on memorandums and mortgages HBPG had a judge give a talk and he said to paraphrase" whatever the cost whatever the hoop you have to jump get your deeds don't argue over snagging pay the money and get your deeds be secure"



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:43

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Message 92 of 768 in Discussion

Thanks Cronos ... but yet another reason why we have to keep such threads going to try and change such corrupt dealings.



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:01

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Message 93 of 768 in Discussion

Hi Crumpy I would love to have been merely naive in not insisting in getting my kocan at the earliest opportunity. The earliest opportunity for me was in November 2006 when I got my PTP (applied for in May 2004) a full 12 months after the mortgage was taken out.



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:18

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Message 94 of 768 in Discussion

Hi Jo ... as you can see from my number of postings I am relatively new to Cyprus and thus there are still a few things I have learn about buying a property here. That said the more I do learn, the more I realise how we need to try and change the injustices of the current legal system.



wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:18

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Message 95 of 768 in Discussion

In the TRNC if you bounce a cheque you appear in the paper & can go to jail

fail to pay a mortgage as a builder and the house owner looses their house and no publicity unless someone notices that there's an auction the day before



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:19

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Message 96 of 768 in Discussion

Hi Jo ... as you can see from my number of postings I am relatively new to Cyprus and thus there are still a few things I have learn about buying a property here. That said the more I do learn, the more I realise how we need to try and change the injustices of the current legal system.



cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:22

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Message 97 of 768 in Discussion

Dont worry about your postings Crumpy, if you carry on posting the same message twice you will soon have 5 stars )



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:25

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Message 98 of 768 in Discussion

I think I posted it THREE times cooper - I've got no idea what happened !



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:58

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Message 99 of 768 in Discussion

No worries Crumpy. Just goes to show how important these threads are to potential purchasers out there. Hopefully there are a few more safeguards these days. Still not enough though.



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 22:02

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Message 100 of 768 in Discussion

msg 43:

As one who plan (planned?) to buy in NC; this whole saga.. AND the attitudes displayed in that article makes me think. And rethink. And think again.



"we TCs didn't buy our homes with sterling - we fought in the mountains." Yeah?



Well, I have (had?) the intention of investing 100-200 K (of my hard-earned money) in a house here.... But apparently TC can get that by just "fighting in the mountains? " Basically; he is telling me I´m a fool not to take my money elsewhere.



Lets hope TRNC has all the sterling it needs then, `cause not much more will come from expats with this attitude.



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 22:06

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Message 101 of 768 in Discussion



.. with this attitude from TRNC, was what I wanted to say



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 23:11

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Message 102 of 768 in Discussion

Hi Expatlady ... don't be put off coming here - yes, those comments (below the newspaper article) were made ... by a few extremist nationalists, but are not representative of the majority - I have found that most TCs would go out of their way to help someone. But yes, there are a few (just a few) TCs who resent the Brits etc buying property here and yes there are a few unscrupulous builders, lawyers, bankers etc who feel it is easier to use the corrupt legal system to trick these expats.



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 23:45

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Message 103 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy:



Sorry: but I´m SERIOUSLY put off. Yes, I *know* that it is a small minority, and that there are rotten apples in every other country, too. (And yeah: I have been to TRNC, and I liked it very much. Friendly people, beautiful nature. That was why I intended to return, to buy).



The problem is, after reading about all the problems some expats experience, it seems as if the law in NC protects "the rotten apples". And that is NOT the case in every other country.



(And renting, even long-term, is not really an option; I want something more "settled". If cannot find that in Cyprus, well, I will have to find another place (around the Med.))



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
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Message Posted:
03/08/2010 23:50

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Message 104 of 768 in Discussion

hi expat, it is lovely warts and all but this is your life, shop around and look at italty, bulgaria farnce even so many places, all of which i wished i picked xxx



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 00:32

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Message 105 of 768 in Discussion

Well, to be honest, wrt to Cyprus: it is not so much my life, as *my money* I am worried about



Oh; and I absolutely love history; and for that Cyprus is a treasure trove.



However; I think I will still give it a try, in the autumn, ...but I am going to demand such strict conditions before I fork over any serious amount of money, that I suspect nobody will sell to me... Yes: I have learned from the horror-stories here: I would only pay a small deposit ---until I have my PTP and kocan. NO exceptions.



And if the sellers do not accept that, then, oh well, I will say bye, bye, any Cyprus-property.





(Lilli: I´m new on this board, so I don´t know your history. Why do you wish you had looked in other places than Cyprus? A link, if this has been discussed before, will do )



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 00:57

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Message 106 of 768 in Discussion

Sadly it would also appear that even with the introduction of new laws thing will not improve.I read with interest the new proposals which are set to prevent further deterioration in the construction industry, as opposed to safeguarding buyers!



The new laws would certainly not inspire me to buy! I note no changes to PTP. No mention of memorandums but a suggestion that the new law would prevent mortgages being taken out or double selling. I thought that had supposedly been introduced with the Estate Agents Law?



As usual a very complicated way of dealing with this problem, when it could be so easily rectified. Why oh why, don't they simply speed up the PTP process and introduce a law which makes it a legal requirement to handover title deeds on completion of contract?



http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Press/CT170710_kocan_law.html



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 07:12

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Message 107 of 768 in Discussion

From Pauline Read:

"I have been reading with interest the posts by Geoff. He started off the naive man who needed educating on the house buying procedure and developed into an expert able to tell us all where we went wrong. What a quick study. He is quite sure we could all have registered our Contracts prior to the Estate Agents law in January 2008 even though we have all been told quite categorically that we could not have. Tell me Geoff, if your assertions are correct, why was there a need to insert a clause in the new law allowing us to register our contracts. Bear in mind we are all stupid, you are the expert You wouldn't happen to work for Akfinans would you? What we all could do and I indeed did do, was pay the stamp duty on the Contract within the first 15 days which then makes it a legally binding document My purchase was Sept 2005, PTP applied for immediately, eventually received in July 2008."

Cont...



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 07:13

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Message 108 of 768 in Discussion

From Pauline Read:

"The mortgage was taken out Nov. 2005 after I signed the Contract and paid most of the purchase money. The mortgage was discovered when registering my Contract in early 2008. Even then, the outrageous interest rate of 80% quarterly compound was not known, all cases on Kulaksiz 5 are similar.

Try walking a mile in our shoes before you judge."



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 08:38

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Message 109 of 768 in Discussion

Re Msg 87: sue the Lawers!

Geoff

Famagusta City



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 08:46

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Message 110 of 768 in Discussion

RE Msg 109: Well I have my own problems, I haven't got my Title Deeds either, and I am retired etc. I consider it is mainly my own fault, just as I consider many (sad) cases we read about on here are their own fault. Many of us have been duped - my point is that if the expat community are to rally round a test case, then pick a winner.

My own case would not meet that criteria, anymore than the one this thread is about would.

BTW, I am not a saddo from the south, maybe (?) another saddo from the UK, like many folks on here!

Geoff

Famaguta City



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 09:20

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Message 111 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff, the reason why Pauline Read's Kulaksiz 5 case is the most important on the island is because it is the most advanced of its type. The property has been mortgaged by the landowner without the consent of the purchaser who has paid for it in full, it has then been auctioned by the Bank who allowed a 100,000TL mortgage grow to a 2m TL debt when they bought it at the auction, then without an eviction order they changed the locks to keep the purchasers out of their homes and nearly ran over a purchaser as they left the scene of the crime. If this case does not deserve the FULL support of ALL of us, especially those like yourself, then there is little hope that anyone in the same situation will ever gather enough support to make a difference. PLUS it gives a signal that other banks can start similar auctions with the understanding that they will receive little resistance. I believe that there are bank officials reading this thread for just that reason. BTW, I have an unencumbered kocan



lally


Joined: 21/08/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 09:37

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Message 112 of 768 in Discussion

I agree 100% with Pauline Reed's postings re Geoff.

It is probably better that Geoff gets a real and current view of what has and still is happening in the whole property market before coming out with glib statements such has his on this thread.

Many innocent people have been caught up in the various "goings on" in the property market here, some totally illegal under any normal criteria and others bad practice by some banks as in this case. Unfortunately we have to look to the lawyers here to steer us through the morass but quite a few of them haven’t protected our interests. Finding the good ones is a challenge I'm afraid.



Many submissions have been submitted to the last two governments by buyer’s and other bodies to repeal the “specific performance law” which would allow the courts to transfer title deeds after receiving proof of payment by the purchaser. Continued:



lally


Joined: 21/08/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 09:39

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This would avoid very expensive and protracted court cases for financial compensation in the absence of the SPL repeal. I personally have been waiting to conclude my court case for at least 8 years.



The Permission to purchase (PTP) process is much too long and inconsistent. Once the police report is available from the UK it should take no longer than a month if only the civil service here could streamline its activities. However, having your PTP does not in anyway help in getting the title transferred if the land owner is unwilling to do so. It would also not have prevented a mortgage being issued as in Pauline’s and many other cases.



But hey Geoff, it's a free world and everyone is entitled to there opinion even though the facts behind the opinion are flawed………………….



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:00

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geoff I think you are confused . You say the contracts always had to registered within 3 months where did you get that one from? You have always had to have had your cointract stamped and tax paid as you to use it in court there has to be a certain criteria. Also there is a time limit of going to court for certain actions and I think that is 3 months which is such an antiquated law it has to be challenged.



You say rally round and pick a winner. Do you understand that even if there is a cast iron case which is nearly impossible here in the the property buying process its just as difficult to get justice.

Many of us have been duped .



NO many of us have had fraudulant actions commited against us and that has already been acknowledged but as Ismet said in a previous thread getting the police here to take action is nearly impossible.



you keep going on about the registration of contracts and I keep telling you in 2004 /2005 when it wasnt law



Mandy


Joined: 25/10/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:07

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Hi Lilli,

Message 105. You said you wish you'd bought elewhere like italty, bulgaria or France.



I bought in Bulgaria and have problems too- I still love TRNC and am glad I 'found' it. I want to live and retire here.



It just needs the government to step in and save the country from the damage being done by the banks.



THe government have the legal system of lawmaking at their disposal and have been shown able to implement new laws very quickly.



Thats all that isd needed to transform the beautiful country



honestie


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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:10

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is the times until after registration that these mortgages bla bla bla happened. And if you want to learn more it DOES NOT STOP MEMORANDUMS being placed on your land whilst the kocan is someone elses hands.

Memorandums can be just as devastating as the mortgages and cost as much as interest can be added.



So Geoff tell me know how you get a cast iron case.



This thread and this support is to support and attempt for the government to listen and change the law and see the damage being done.



We can all see what is happening we dont want to go into politics we want to keep our homes and live a reasonably peaceful life and contribute to the economy and the country.



As for sue the solicitor everyone would be sued then and just goes to show what concept you have of the legal system and its consequences here.



ou say youre in the same position. Would be great for you wouldnt it if because of people like us trying to make change you got your title deeds.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:14

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got your title deeds without haveing to give any support.



As for closing the thread why!!!



Because you dont understand the aims and the legalities . If you dont want to support or you just want to come on with the unhelpful comments then stay off it just read and learn maybe helpful



lally


Joined: 21/08/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:17

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Re message 115



The time limit for stamped contract registration is 21 days from date of contract signature. There was an amnesty in March 2008 because no one knew that this had to done..................



honestie


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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 12:45

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Sorry I may have confused things a little I didnt mean registering after signature and stamping. What I meant is there is a time limit in order to start court proceedings and that is 2 (or it maybe 3 months) either way it is so antiquated with such a unachievable condition.



Due to this time limit which if correct is under the specific performance law and which is the law that needs to be overhauled



It is being challenged I know at the moment . dont hold your breath !



It is this specific performance law that needs to be overhauled.



Msg 90



The criminal law is apparantly the same here just try getting the police to follow it is a differant thing especilly when its a regime of who has the most power if you get my gist.



You never know there was a big maffia arrest in italy last month. !



lally


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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 13:43

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Re message 120



Just to clarify that I was referring to the “Specific Performance Law” that allows the courts to order the transfer of title to the new owner. This same law applies in the UK and probably many other countries as well.



Unfortunately the TRNC version can only be considered by the courts if the time limit is within 60 days of the contract, which of course is totally impractical given the time to build a property and of course the PTP process which can take years…. If this law had been updated several years ago, it would probably have avoided the necessity of taking protracted court action for damages in many hundreds’ of cases.



honestie


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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 14:05

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yep thats the one Im referring to and the one that needs overhauling. However at the moment am going down the path of challenging it due its impracticality and PTP



If the time limit was say 5 years at least it would give you time to get the PTP maybe! at least in that period if contract stamped signed and registered you can apply for a judgement to transfer the deeds.



Also the registration of contracts with the land registry should not allow memorandums being placed on your portion of land which the builder /Kocan holder is holdingback and which you have fully paid for.



In my probably simple opinion if

if time limit changed under SPL to a reasonable limit and contracts correctly registered then the system would be a lot easier and at least some redress in the court.



at the moment the memnorandums are now taking over from the mortgages as the registration in 2008 helped to stop that.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 16:55

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The sale contract always had to be registered, but things were tightened up in 2008 - that is what I was told by a Solicitor, either he was right or wrong.

We are all in the same boat if title deeds are awaited.

Regards this thread where is it getting us? As far as I can see all aspects have been well and truly aired,

Geoff



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 16:58

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could be the thread is keeping people abrest of developments



Sundance


Joined: 15/07/2010
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 17:06

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Message 116



Mandy your so right, could not of worded it better my self,



Sundance



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 17:12

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No we are not all in the same boat. Some are in a worse and appalling situation similar to the gary robb saga .

If theses things are not supported and people like youself come on a forum picking holes in everything which is your privledge, but to ask for it to be closed. Why it should be important to us all as you never know we can all learn . Apart from tha.t this situation has gone a step further than not getting deeds maybe loosing your home and money if thats not bad enough in the first place! its gone to an even more sinister level which is why the thread was started in the first place.



If you havent got your deeds youre in the same position as many. If youre house has been taken from you and then broken into and caused injury do you really think by just ignoring it is going to go away.

Its like anything if you aint in that position it doesnt matter.



I would be really interested as am sure many others would as to how you would have acted in light of the recent incidents



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 22:33

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Msg 105: North Cyprus "is lovely warts and all"



Yeah, but the problem is that if I had been one of the Kulaksiz 5, then the "warts" would look a bit like this:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Leprosy



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 23:11

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MESSAGE 116



"It just needs the government to step in and save the country from the damage being done by the banks"



Err NO!



The government are the problem. Had effective laws been introduced then the amount of scams from developers, advocates, estate agents and more recently the banks would have been preventable. These scams have being going on for several years now and despite demands for changes to safeguard house buyers the government have remained intransigent.



It does not inspire confidence in the TRNC property market by suggesting that other countries have problems too. Keep to the TRNC, as elsewhere is irrelevant if you are buying here.



Yes there have been quickly introduced laws but the big question is "were they effective?



We all know the answer to that having experienced the Estate Agents Law. The correct interpretation of laws is also sadly lacking.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 23:18

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Bradus

You are spot on with your comments a usual. I only wish the revenue from property was as large as that I assume is being raked in from the gambling casinos. Then you would see some government action now that the property sector has collapsed.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
04/08/2010 23:53

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Collapsed it has. A telling time Hector,because if the Government are serious about instilling confidence and doing everything possible to prevent even further decline, we should start to see the introduction of new laws that make property purchase safe. This should start with speeding up the PTP process and making transfer of title deeds a legal requirement.



Anything other than these initiatives will fail to convince, as well as fail to safeguard.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
05/08/2010 08:52

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further information about about Akfinans Bank and a campaign of lies at

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/05/north-cyprus-akfinans-bank-enlists-akan-kursat-in-fight-against-truth/



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
05/08/2010 11:06

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Message 131 of 768 in Discussion

bradus think you mean msg 115 not 116 and I agree the government are the problem the others are allowed to get away with it because of it.



It would appear they are more interested in the revenue from the casinos than any changes of property purchases and as we all know there are some very big connections within that circle!



But this thread should be kept to update on any further re this incident which has taken peoples problems into a far higher concern.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
05/08/2010 18:54

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Yes Honestie. Sorry I did mean 115.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 10:42

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"Hi folks,

I guess if you read NCFP you are pretty up to date with the situation.

Let me tell you, that what happened to me last Friday will happen to my neighbours, I have no doubt of this. The rule of law here seems not to apply to Akan Kursat and Akfinans Bank Limited.

Please take the few seconds to put something on the wall of facebook shame akfinans bank - it may make a difference, we need your support.

My emotional pain is obvious, you can see it etched in my face. My neighbours all look drawn and ill. Some have developed visible tremors, that one or more of us will not be here to see the end of this ordeal is inevitable. Help us."



Pauline Read



Sundance


Joined: 15/07/2010
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 11:59

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Hello all, I do feel sad for what you are going through, if I was back in Belfast, this sort of thing gets Resolved very differant when people take advantage , just a quick question ,is it all expats or are their any TC in any of these home,s



Sundance



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 12:16

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also TCs so not specifically an ex-pat thing



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 14:23

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msg 133,



Not to detract from your issues but there are many in the same pain as you and who cares. Nobody in this banana republic that is for sure.



They have all lined there own pockets at the expnse of ourselves and when they run out of money they then use the system to f*** is all again. I am fed up of it. I have even heard that our so called builder is complaining to his potential clients and for them not to listen to a trouble maker. For pity sake it is him that put us in this shit and I am trying to prevent others from falling into the same trap.



Unfortunatley as we all keep seeing on this and other forums nobody believes us "whinging Brits" they believe the lying, thieving illigitimate Cypriots that are going to screw them over. Then they come back and ask, can you help because...............



Right now I would recommend everyone follow the FCO advice in UK and stay well away from TRNC untill after it totally implodes later this year.



DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 14:59

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I agree with cyprusishome, this thread should remain at the top to advise as many people as possible about the dishonesty and double dealing in the TRNC, not to mention the double standards pricing. The way that Pauline and Chris have been mistreated and cheated is disgusting and the so called police are completely complicit. The TRNC is no longer a safe place for expats.



DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 15:01

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oops said it twice and will probably say it again.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 15:09

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cyprusishome...msg 133



Hi David, the depth of your feelings and also your desperation,is evident from your posts.

This also came across when we met at Geoff and Mary's court appearance last month.



You are a great example to anyone thinking of buying property in the TRNC despite all the warnings.

A few short years ago you started off full of hope and actually promoted the TRNC and really wanted to give it a chance and silence the naysayers.

Things have unfortunately turned out horrendous for you personally,and you can see the TRNC property market and legal system for what it really is.

I totally agree with you....people should avoid buying in the TRNC full stop until it radically alters its laws regarding PTP and title deeds.



We got out relatively unscathed compared to many others,yourself included, and my heart goes out to all those still stuck there with little or no real security.



Good luck with your own fight ,and well done for continuing to support other victims.



yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 15:52

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TRNC is no longer a safe place.........not even for villians anymore........as for 'rebels'....I'll keep fighting.



My heart goes out to you decent and innocent ones.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 15:57

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Well I certainly don't agree with all the comments on here, no point in repeating myself either, as many others are doing.

HOWEVER, I DO agree with Msg 137 that this thread should be a "sticky", and so at the top of the listings as a warning to prospective property buyers.

Geoff

Famagusta City (in a house with no PTP, yet!)



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 16:04

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as long as the fraudsters and charlatans go unpunished they and the lack of action by police ang sucsessive governments bring shame on the trnc.



at the request of pauline read a facebook group has again been set up as the bank complained and got the last one closed





http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=107163066005030



silcuty21


Joined: 24/05/2010
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 18:07

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so sorry and so sad i dont know what i would do i really feel for these people it could be us next

and that s scary



sylv



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 18:19

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Honestie msg 114 - "geoff I think you are confused . You say the contracts always had to registered within 3 months where did you get that one from? "



Again I am convinced that geoff is either from the south or Mars!! One thing none of us was ever told - "your contract had to be stamped and registered in 21 days of signing"



That is why the amnesty was brought in in 2008, to give people the opportunity to get legal. It still makes no difference unless there is a memorandum or mortgage at the time of registration. Problem is when there is an on going court case started before 2008. If a judge grants a memorandum or other it still goes on file but you probably would not be told until they come to take your property.



Also there are known case where mortgages have still been granted on properties even when registered, how??? Do you really need to ask?



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 20:33

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Msg 144



David in the antiquated specific performance law for legal proceedings contracts have to signed stamped and registered and there is a time limit of think its 3 months to commence the proceeding and can ask the judge to make an order for the deeds to be transferred if you win that is.



so you see its impossible as thers no chance to start the proceedings within that time limit and needs to be challenged which I may be doing within my legal action,



registration was made law to stop the banks mortgaging but didnt cater for memorancums as we all know and if not mistaken if their is a mortgage taken out on land that has contracts registered its a criminal offence !! Im sure ismet will correct me if I am wrong and its what I have been legally informed as interpretation of legislation.



All contracts had to be stamped and tax paid the actual registration was made law in 2008. The amnesty as I was informed was in respect of the tax to be paid .



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 20:35

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all contracts have to be signed and stamped for court use again not something told us by solicitors!



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 21:40

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I am close to giving up the fight, you cannot win in a biased corrupt system.



We could go to court to get completion but we know the builder has no assets in HIS name. So we would spend time and money and in 5 years get a judgement in our favour, what would happen??



We would set up another Kulaksiz scenario of having people thrown out of thier homes because of a lieing cheating builder called Oskan Besok. Yes I keep repeating his name, I have given up any hope of him ever doing anything other than give us both an early death.



It is time all others in similar positions came out of the closet and nailed all the corrupt builders, banks, estate agents etc. Without that we may as well all give up as they will continue to hide in the anonimity of threats against buyers.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 22:34

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David...they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.



I'm seriously concerned that your nightmare in the TRNC will actually kill you !



I'm not suggesting that you give up....you deserve justice....but please look after yourself and look at the bigger picture.



Cronos.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
06/08/2010 22:56

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Thanks cronos.



It is more a feeling than actuallity, I am sure you know what I mean.



Now got to fight another potential auction for another site in Karsiyaka where markers have been called in. I will try to get info later from north cyprus forum site. They are been asked for £31k each house or they will be auctioned end of september.



Really does get us all down with this crooked dealing.



Say hi to better half,

David



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
07/08/2010 06:38

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cyprusishome, £31k for a kocan or for a promise?



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
07/08/2010 07:07

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malsancak,



My angry fingers at work, of course it is an extra £31k for each and every house to get their promised deeds or off to the auction. The owners are still working on their responses and will add further details when they decide what to do.



This is another of the hundred or so we knew were in the pipeline at the time of Kulaksiz auction and some just laughed it off as trouble making. I wish some would go to actually talk to the people involved instead of just spouting off with there idiot comments on forums.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 10:25

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Paying the £31k each is probably the best way out for those given that option.

Geoff



britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 10:41

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Geoff, Did you read what cyprusishome said? They have to pay £31.000 by next Month. Of course everyone has that amount of money in there back pocket don't they?



Vicki



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 10:59

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i bet even if they pay 31 k each there will be more to pay and i bet iys shared not full kochan so mre to pay there. of course the builder will have submitted electric plans an built a transformer house ?? no then another 5k each ++++



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 11:10

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Who is to say that they will still get their title deeds? When they paid in full for their properties initially, the builder felt no need or moral obligation to hand them over then. With the law not demanding the handover of deeds on completion, how can anyone be sure that even if you pay the £30000 builders debts you will get your deeds?



Some appear to take blackmail very lightly! I am amazed that people like Geoff glibly suggest payment. Is this not simply supporting a system that allows people to pay in full for their properties and then be accountable for the builders debts? Even though these debts may have been run up in the casino or buying flash cars? Many builders have certainly not got their debts through their business dealings as they have left unstarted or unfinished houses, yet taken all the monies. What sort of long term strategy is that?



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 13:17

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In reply to Britvic - obviously it depends on having the money available.

Funny though - they all had plenty of money when they first bought here at low prices compared to what many had sold their UK houses for - and I include myself in that.

Simples my friend, and SIMPLES it really is.

You'll no doubt have another pop at me - as though I care.

I am right though when I say, and said before, it is all our own silly greedy faults.

No more greedy that the banks and builders etc.

Geoff



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 13:37

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geoff greed has nothing to do with it, we moved to a new country and paid the market price foe a property, i do noty think britvic david my self & others were silly in expecting the lawyers we trusted and paid to do a honourable job or the government to enforce existing laws to protect people.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 13:49

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Geoff,



some people did not sell their UK house, they are maintaining two homes as they have not retired yet.



Are you actually saying that if you buy cheap you deserved to get swindled? Your logic amazes me!

What made you greedy? The purchase of a cheap house? Like everyone else who have bought in the TRNC?



"You'll no doubt have another pop at me - as though I care"



Sums you up. You don't care, because its not happened to you and your blatantly obvious attitude of "I'm alright Jack" is evident in all your posts.



Would the real reason for you doing your best to blame buyers, rather than the perpetrators, be that you are becoming worried about your investment? All this bad publicity isn't helping? Tough, that's what you get for buying in a thieves paradise! You made the choice.



This effects you too but you are too arrogant and blinded to to see this.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 13:53

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geoff why not stay where you are in RoC, you are well sussed now.



You have proven conclusively that you have no idea about what is happening in TRNC nor about how builder, developers, lawyers and bankers are working together with governments tacit approval to scalp as many people as they can.



Many people came here afer selling their UK homes to settle for retirment so your statement - "Funny though - they all had plenty of money when they first bought here at low prices compared to what many had sold their UK houses for" is just total hogwash. The difference between buying and selling was the nest egg to live on while retiring early.



Keep posting by all means but as I said we all know what you are now and I will say no more to you and hope others have the same sense.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:08

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Geoff....you are obviously having a whale of a time as a keyboard agent provocateur,winding people up on this forum.



The problem is Geoff,these people don't deserve your scorn,platitudes or cod philosophy about life.



What has the comparitive price of houses in UK and TRNC got to do with anything?

As Jimmykibris said ,people paid the full market price for their property in the TRNC....why does this make them greedy?



Little things please little minds Geoff...so by all means carry on posting your spite and vitriol from your place in "Gazimagusa"....but do expect us to treat your offerings with the contempt that they deserve.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:27

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I really dont think Geoff if it is Geoff needs to even be aknowledged any longer as he is either just trying to upset people for whatever reason or just so unintelligent this is his only way of amusement. sad either way



No point going over it all again as this thread says it all and the intention is to keep us informed of this and other incidents. and if nothing else give moral support



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:28

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Message 162 of 768 in Discussion

Being relatively new to KKTC, I have recently read as much as I can on the case of Kulaksiz 5. I know I will upset a few people with this, but the recent article in the Kibris Gazetesi ; http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/popup.php/cat/2/news/99381/PageName/Ic_Haberler has certainly got me thinking again.



According to the article the court has ordered the builders to pay Pauline £120 000 for breach of contract. As we all know, the builders are no longer around … and Akfinans, unfarly I might add, own all the Kulaksiz 5 properties. Now as far as I can gather from the article, and even my TC fiance says it's unclear, the court has said that Pauline will get her £120 000 from Akfinans Bank, as soon as the property is sold.



Continuing to play devil's advocate here, but Pauline is not residing continuously at the house … and Akfinans Bank, in their defence, have not tried to enter any other properties on the Kulaksiz site.



jimmykibris


Joined: 20/07/2010
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:31

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Message 163 of 768 in Discussion

due to damp and unsafe life threatening conditions pauline moved out of her house on Kulaksiz 5 3 weeks before the auction .it was not a condition of the court victory paulins should be paid when the defunct property was sold .



britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:40

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Message 164 of 768 in Discussion

Its not just Akfinans Bank doing this the Coop are at it as well!





http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2009/10/31/trnc-koop-bank-seeks-to-make-people-homeless/



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 14:43

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Message 165 of 768 in Discussion

Continuing to play Devil's Advocate ... the sum of £120 000 is no small sum ... it would seem to me that in awarding this to Pauline, the court is saying we understand that you are having a rough time living there - Let us award you this sum of money, so that you can buy another place where you would feel happier.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 15:14

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Message 166 of 768 in Discussion

msg 162 what bits got you thinking again



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 15:19

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Message 167 of 768 in Discussion

If Pauline & Chris received their money they may be happy.



However this is TRNC and nobody, to my knowledge has won a case here and received any payment close to the court awarded amount. In fact most folk win and receive nothing!!!!! So you must accept the cynicism that they are likely to receive their money, NOT!!!!!



If you know anything about the TRNC over the last 5 years then you must know these facts, if not then I am afraid you have an awful lot to learn.



Crumpy, playing Devils Advocate, are you renting? If not is your place completed? Do you have deeds?



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 16:04

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Message 168 of 768 in Discussion

Cyprusishome, I don't know if you are mocking me by using the phrase "Playing Devil's Advocate", but according to Wikipedia I was indeed "testing the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure."



I think Akfinans Bank behaved very badly in giving mortgages, without checking the securities being offered by the borrowers. I think Akfinans Bank also behaved badly in charging an extortionate rate of interest on the loans. I also think Akfinans Bank should have acted more quickly when they realised that the loan wasn't being repaid. However, as much as I WANT to fully support your case, I think the court, in awarding £120 000 to Pauline, has behaved very fairly. If and when I start reading reports about other peoples' houses being seized, then I will willingly join you outside their properties, to prevent this happening.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 16:20

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Message 169 of 768 in Discussion

You will get your wish very soon as there are at least 100 auctions in the pipeline one consisting of about 200 homes. Then there is the one pending in Girne that was postponed from last month involving a Cypriot widow in her sixties, I say postponed because talking to family last week no progress has been made despite promises from bank and builder.



If you think Paulines award is fair then you will be in a minority. I hope you have read the full story of this site going back to 2005.



We look forward to seeing you not only at auctions but at predicted protests that are going to start happening if the government do not act.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 16:46

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Message 170 of 768 in Discussion

crumpy



the court awarded the money to be paid back by who?



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 16:55

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Message 171 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy,



Why dont you just sit there in your blissful divorced state and leave well alone the one person who has almost singlehandedly



fought for the rights of people in The TRNC. David has sufferred it, seen it, protested about , and lead the long awaited



battle cry by the people of the TRNC who are being dispossessed of their homes and their life times savings .If that doesnt



deserve all our support I dont know what does .Get off the guys back. He has enough to contend with without your ill balanced



opinions. Do you really think Pauline will live to see her award paid?



This is s a scam which is fully supported by The TRNC Government. If it wasnt they would do something about it.



wyn



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:15

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Message 172 of 768 in Discussion

Cyprusishome, with regards to msg 169, yes over the last month I have read virtually everything there is on this case, including those articles written in Turkish ... and now feel well informed on the case.



Yes, if I sense that the TC widow (or anyone else for that matter) is having their property unjustly seized, then I will willingly follow through on my promise to join you at such protests. Furthermore, if, after Pauline's house is sold and the £120 000 is not paid to her, then I would attend protests outside Akfinans Bank and the appropriate courtrooms.



But as it stands, no one as yet has had their house unjustly seized ... and yes, I feel the court's decision for Pauline to receive £120 000, to allow her to live in another house, is fair.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:16

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Message 173 of 768 in Discussion

Wyn



You are too generous in your praise. I like a number of others do our best to keep the momentum going regarding problems here. We are not likely to loose our home like some however we are probably never going to get mains water or electric!!



Has anybody else seen the comment in today's Kibris. Has been translated on North Cyprus Forum and is a message from FCO that Pauline Reed is best advised to leave the TRNC. No other detail or sources given.



Would one of our TC friends advise please.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:17

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Message 174 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy, please do not make any more assumptions about pauline read, if you read what she has written

especially for you, on North Cyprus Free Press, you will be better informed to give opinions.

With rgard to Cyprusishome, he has worked tirelessly for others in distress over the entire property

market fiasco and I know despite his own problems he will continue to do so, as will Pauline.

Give Christine a big hug from me David.



The people at Karisyaka who are just facing possible auction need our support and I hope you are

all up for it. I'll be there, so will Chris and Pauline, dodging cars!!



Crumpy your article will be in later today or tomorrow, dont miss it.



Geoff, You obviously are a plant (0r a vegetable) haven't made up my mind yet.



Keep sleuthing.



pollymarples



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:29

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Message 175 of 768 in Discussion

If something looks too good to be true, then in most probably is.

Unlike most contributors on here we have two properties, one in the ROC just over the border, and one in Famagusta. Having sold our 2 houses in UK 9 years ago.

The problems on both sides of the Cyprus divide are similar, in that expats like us lot have been ripped off, in a variety of different ways.

I think the latin phrase that apples is "caveat emptor"

Happy Ramadan everyone.

Geoff



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:31

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Message 176 of 768 in Discussion

BTW, I am entitled to my opinions and o expesss then on here as much as anyone else is. We won't always agree, but often out of debate and criticism comes progress.

Geoff



matula


Joined: 07/07/2008
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:41

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Message 177 of 768 in Discussion

msg 175 The phrase that comes to my mind is



I am deleting your highly offensive phrase for obvious reasons

Simbas



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 17:47

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Message 178 of 768 in Discussion

geoff you didnt want this thread to continue as you said its served its purpose.

You obviously do want it to continue but not sure why you contribute to it as theres nothing informative supportive or helpful. Lucky you .Two houses in cyprus at least one ias in the EU you may have your redress



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 18:07

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Message 179 of 768 in Discussion

Pauline has responded to "crumpy"'s promise that "if, after Pauline's house is sold and the £120,000 is not paid to her, then I would attend protests outside Akfinans Bank and the appropriate courtrooms" to point out that Akfinans Bank HAS ALREADY bought her property at the auction and that she has not been paid the £120,000 and much much more at http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/08/north-cyprus-two-tiered-legal-system/



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
08/08/2010 18:38

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Message 180 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy google North Cyprus Free Press it is on for you titled NORTH CYPRUS 'two tiered legal system'



David have no fear Pauline and Chris are going nowhere. The FOC did tell them they should leave

the island for their own safety. Pauline told me they have been very supportive and have phoned

and e mailed her several times. I'm looking for two burly body guards to look after them, and when

they are not busy I hope to borrow them!!! Can't blame a girl for trying.



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 00:18

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Message 181 of 768 in Discussion

i will lend her guido and i will find another heavyweight to look after her and you. i just cant beleive what im reading. thought we had it bad but this well words fail me x



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 01:39

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Message 182 of 768 in Discussion

Dear Pauline,



Sorry I'm a bit late in replying, but I'm just back from an evening out with friends As I wrote in msg 162, the article in Kibris Gazetesi (even according to my TC fiance) was vague in explaining as to where the sum of £120 000 was coming from. If as you state in http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/08/north-cyprus-two-tiered-legal-system/ the money is to be taken from "property and land still in the builders’ name", then yes, it is indeed unlikely that you will be receiving the said money ... and so under those circumstances, you get my full support.



Thank you Pauline for clarifying the situation, and thank you also for being so courteous in replying - I have to say in response to Wynyardman though, that my marital status has absolutely nothing to do with all this, so please refrain from such comments in future (msg 171).



As you can see Cyprusishome, "playing Devil's Advocate" can often enable one to fully understand the story.



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 05:18

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Message 183 of 768 in Discussion

Hi again Pauline ... I'm still trying to get my head around this:



You wrote in your article that the money "could eventually come from a (Kulaksiz) pot." Akfinans (horrible people that they are) would seem MORE confident (that you will soon be receiving that money) ... or else they wouldn't have changed the locks on only your house.



Seeing as the pot, your lawyer has found, is not bottomless, Akfinans probably feel that this money should instead be paid to them ... after all it is the Akfinans loan to Kulaksiz that started all this.



Let's presume that your lawyer does a wonderful job for you and you do get the money from the said pot. Would it then be your intention to try to stay on in the house? You have to admit that under such circumstances the court would probably rule in favour of Akfinans seizing your house :-(



I am aware that, as before, this post will not please some of you, but I would appreciate it if members didn't reply questioning my naivety etc.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 07:20

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Message 184 of 768 in Discussion

Hi Crumpy.



You sound like a nice person, but I am afraid you are still mising some of the plot.



Firstly, Akan Kursat Akfinans Advocate, knows that Pauline has not had the money because she told him.

face to face in a meeting on the 23rd July, a week before he, in company with a Akfinans Bank Manager

and a locksmith, using a small boy as lookout

broke into her villa and changed her locks. Two separate legal opinions have said this was a criminal act

without an court order, he did not have one. The vehicular attack, lets not forget and Advocate was also

involved in that criminal offence. With his experience in the court procedure he is also aware

how long the process takes and that it might never happen.



Paulines house is A health hazard for her personally because of her medical condition and is also

structurally unsound . If as I say. your words crumpy - if you were a regular reader of North Cyprus Free

Press, you would know I am Paulin's alter ego and the one



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 07:21

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Message 185 of 768 in Discussion

cont



she sends out sleuthing when she is looking for evidence for her stories. In short I get all the dirty

jobs - I know all the facts and Pauline's every thought. We are Geminis after all. Pauline

would never knowingly publish anything that was a lie.



Strange you think a debt that started as 100,000 Tl in 2005 and is now 2,400,000 TL 2010 because

of the 80% quarterly interest applied by Akfinans is all the fault of Kulaksiz, surely such a mafia style

rate also puts blame on the bank?? Me I am an equal opportunities girl, I loathe them all with a

vengence.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 08:35

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Message 186 of 768 in Discussion

In reply to Honestie, Msg 178: Well that is right, I did say I thought this thread had served its useful purpose and should now be closed. I also agreed it would be useful if it was made a "sticky" as a warning to newcomers to the TRNC who might be prospective property purchasers. However, as the thread has not been closed I will feel free to continue to participate and try to put the other side of the argument. I see "Crumpy" is getting popped at now, same as I was. So be it. Mustn't let the facts get in the way of the truth must we!? However unpalatable that truth may be to some. I agree with everyone else that those developers, banks, solicitors, who have ripped expats off SHOULD be brought to book. But I doubt they will be here, anymore than they have been in the South where similar problems exist. This is a CYPRUS problem, not just a TRNC problem. There are problems in Spain too, and Bulgaria. A lot of it is "our" own fault, "buyers beware",

Geoff

Famagusta City



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:03

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Message 187 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff, some say that the results of everything we do is our responsibility. If I buy ham from a UK butcher who had inadvertently infected it with salmonella and got I sick then I suppose "buyer beware" would apply. When my grand-father got addicted to cigarettes before there was a link with cancer then I suppose "buyer beware" applies there too. Luckily, the law disagrees with you and in the first case the seller should "be aware." Some buyers here have bought the services of UK qualified lawyers who they thought would be aware of mortgages on the property they were conveyancing. These buyers were in my grandfather's situation when he bought cigarettes but once it was established that smoking kills then smokers are in the "buyer beware" category. Pauline did not know that the legal services she bought would not establish the presence of a mortgage. Those buying now however are definitely in your "buyer beware" category. NO KOCAN, NO MONEY!



simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:06

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Message 188 of 768 in Discussion

msg 177 edited for reason given

Simbas



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:22

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Message 189 of 768 in Discussion

Thank you Polly for your kind words.



With regards to my opinion of Akfinans, let me repeat what I wrote in msg 168 -

"I think Akfinans Bank behaved very badly in giving mortgages, without checking the securities being offered by the borrowers. I think Akfinans Bank also behaved badly in charging an extortionate rate of interest on the loans. I also think Akfinans Bank should have acted more quickly when they realised that the loan wasn't being repaid." And further to that Polly, its actions on the evening of July 31st are more akin to those of the mafia.



However, it would seem that you have avoided my question (in msg 183) - "Let us presume you (Pauline that is) end up receiving the money from the Kulaksiz pot - Would it then be your intention to try to stay on in the house?" Your comment in msg 184 that Pauline's house is "a health hazard for her personally because of her medical condition" would suggest to me that Pauline, on receiving the money, would indeed move on.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:33

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Message 190 of 768 in Discussion

re msg 183/189 pauline has stated in her NCFP article:

"on receipt of my award or an official Eviction Order, whichever comes first, I will, as a law abiding person, deliver my keys to my Advocate so that she could make sure they were given to the appropriate person."

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/07/more-north-cyprus-banks-to-auction-paid-for-properties-who-can-you-trust/



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 09:50

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Message 191 of 768 in Discussion

Thank you for clarifying that Malsancak - Let's hope it is the award she gets and not the eviction order.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 10:46

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Message 192 of 768 in Discussion

Oh Dear, I must be loosing the plot totally, people are being nice to me!!!!!! This especially as I do not know them, one even wanting me to hug other half. At the moment I take care on that particular front, too much money has been spent.



So, where is all this talk going to get us? Will anybody turn out with my 10 other colleagues at the next protest action? I know there was a good turn out for Kulaksiz but couple of weeks later the number had dropped by 75% for next auction.



The only way others will listen is in regular mass protesting, making sure the foreign press turn out and a fully detailed information sheet made available in all languages used here.



The government are fully aware of what is said on these forums and what notice is taken - who we all are and that is it. So I hope that I see everyone out at the next call to arms and we can get to know each other.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 10:58

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Message 193 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff/Msg 186: 'A lot of it is "our" own fault, "buyers beware",'



The naivity of your postings is becoming rather annoying and tiresome.



Why don't you wise up and pipe down?



'A wise old owl lived in an oak,

The more he heard, the less he spoke.

The less he spoke, the more he heard.

Why can't we be like that wise old bird?'



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 11:41

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Message 194 of 768 in Discussion

cyprusishome, could someone to email NCFP the full details of the case so an article can be published? Or point me to where the information is? I've been out of action for a few months, working and then playing with grandchildren so don't know the details. I rely on people like Pauline Read to write articles rather than write them myself.

10 people only, what about Home Buyers Pressure Group? Is it time to form an alternative organisation which focuses on issues such as the time it takes to get PTP and the mortgage/auction problem?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
09/08/2010 15:46

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Message 195 of 768 in Discussion

Be fair Cypruishome , you know Pauline was at the next auction, you hid her camera for her when she was

being pursued by one of the secret sercie men who's photo she accidentally took,,,oopss...



She also appeared on the TV news that day condemning the daughter of the builder involved who

was running for public office in Girne (she didnt get elected) She was on the front page of Yeni Duzen

on Monday with the headline Tragedy. She wrote an article and it was published on NCFP

within a short time of auction finish. She was in America when the next one took place or she would

have been present (did it go ahead?).



Crumpy, I know it would be time consuming but if you really want to keep up with the Kulaksiz 5

look back in the archives, I know Pauline has written in excess of 60 articles.



One final comment. Pauline knowsshe cannot have her cake and eat it - it would have been the villa

or the award.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 06:15

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Message 196 of 768 in Discussion

Pauline has asked me to tell you, the only way she feels she can cope is to inject a little humour into

her articles ergo her life. She knows she has to see the irony and the very serious side of things

but she also knows if she give in to the urge to scream, she might never stop.



David, we all know you have been totally unselfish in your support of others, inlcuding Pauline and she

thinks it is time we all gave your problem attention.



Pauline says ' I know you will have exhausted every avenue you

can personally. Strength is in numbers, every person still on builders electricity, every person still on

tankered water needs to pull together. Forget the builder and land owners, they are either gone or

unwilling to help. Target the people who can change it - Kib Tek and your beledeysi



David Kib tek and the beleydesi, can if they have the will, do the right thing. So we have to become

such a bally nuisance they will do it to make us go away.'



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 12:40

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Message 197 of 768 in Discussion

pollymarples,



A very good posting. Lets hope that you all get the support you deserve. A little humour keeps the spirit high and allows people to battle on. This is predominantly a British problem, and we must support our own. Well done!



wyn



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 13:17

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Message 198 of 768 in Discussion

geoff message 186



'A lot of it is "our" own fault, "buyers beware",'



Its people like you will stop any change ,by ,with your statement telling all the lawyers,Govt officials ,etc that they are not to blame and its all our own fault.

Honestly,so many people come to NC and with a bit of sun and the drink,lose sense of morality that comes with an 'im alright Jack atitude.'

Its theft, and condoned by vested interest within the system,and I was taught that stealing was wrong.

The system is corrupt ,short of Turkey enforcing direct rule ,there is no cure,but at least dont give those involved the satisfaction of thinking we are stupid and dont recognise the corruption for what it is.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 13:32

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Message 199 of 768 in Discussion

msg 198



totally agree and think Im becoming a grumpy old woman!



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 14:14

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Message 200 of 768 in Discussion

msg 199,

You are

But I still love you...



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 14:24

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Message 201 of 768 in Discussion

thanks Keith Im only grumpy on here although john wouldnt say that!



As you can see it gets my back up when someone really doesnt get how bad and corrupt the system is , You couldssay its our own fault when we suffer a burglary because we left a window open . doesnt work like that their shouldnt be people out there stealing even if you have left youre window open. Just as the peole here shouldnt have to deal with the corruption that these peole have had. we would never have got the vote if emily pankhurst hadnt done what she did. And with that I should shut up cos youre going to say we never should have and that could be another thread!! `love to steve



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 16:58

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Message 202 of 768 in Discussion

I think we all agree that Akfinans behaved very badly in charging such a high rate of an interest. However, being a Mathematician, I have to say that the figures here are not quite adding up. It is commonly stated that the interest rate was 80% per annum compounded quarterly. Let us then presume the loan has been gathering interest for 5 years (though I remember reading somewhere that it has been accumulating for 5+ years)



Simple IGCSE Maths is then as follows :

5 years = 20 quarters



Interest rate per quarter = 20%



Multiplicative factor for every quarter = 1.2



Therefore after 5 years (ie. 20 quarters) the 100 000 TL will have accumulated to 100 000 x 1.2^20

= 3 833 760 TL



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 16:59

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Message 203 of 768 in Discussion

(cont from above)



However, at the time of the auction (when incidentally it was decided that no more interest should be added) the loan had amassed to only 2077 000 TL according that is to http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/03/akfinans-banks-cunning-plan-to-inflate-kulaksiz-5-debt/ … a figure very different to the one calculated above.



If the interest had indeed been accumulating for 5 years and the 100 000 TL had amassed to 2 077 000 TL, then the actual interest rate per annum would be 65½ % … that is assuming quarterly compounding.



Although I have taken Miss Marple's suggestion to read the archives of the NCFP, I have been able to find the exact date for the commencement of the loan … however I do remember reading somewhere that it was November 2005. If that date is indeed correct, it would mean the interest rate used is closer to 70%.



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 16:59

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Message 204 of 768 in Discussion

(Again cont from above)



Whether the interest rate is 65, 70 or 80% it is still far too high and I'm sure that Kulaksiz only accepted it because they had no intention of repaying it. However, can someone supply me with more details on the loan, so that I can check these figures.



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 17:21

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Message 205 of 768 in Discussion

I think we all agree that Akfinans behaved very badly in charging such a high rate of an interest. However, being a Mathematician, I have to say that the figures here are not quite adding up. It is commonly stated that the interest rate was 80% per annum compounded quarterly. Let us then presume the loan has been gathering interest for 5 years (though I remember reading somewhere that it has been accumulating for 5+ years)



Simple IGCSE Maths is then as follows :

5 years = 20 quarters



Interest rate per quarter = 20%



Multiplicative factor for every quarter = 1.2



Therefore after 5 years (ie. 20 quarters) the 100 000 TL will have accumulated to 100 000 x 1.2^20

= 3 833 760 TL



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 17:31

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Message 206 of 768 in Discussion

Why don't you p**** off you pompous ********,



You do not have the full facts of dates and actual interest etc all you are doing is causing more grief to the people from this debacle, many of who are reading this.



Perhaps you would like to come to karsiyaka and meet all concerned and bring your friends along from the bank just to rub the noses of these innocent people further in the dirt.



What a total prat you are.



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
10/08/2010 17:50

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Message 207 of 768 in Discussion

Dear Cyprusishome,



I am trying to ascertain the true facts ... and I don't want to use the figure of 80% if that is not indeed correct.



I have nothing whatsoever to do with the bank ... and am surprised that you should even suggest such a thing.



I understand you are angry, but calling people names is certainly not going to help.



Although I have visitted KKTC in the past, I arrive "for good" on Sunday - Hopefully then, I can join you for a drink one day ... and you won't think so ill of me.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:02

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Message 208 of 768 in Discussion

why on earth are you trying to work out the interest this thread is not about interest its about what happened to these people and thir homes. you really are not doing yourself any favours. You may b a mathematician but these people are not interested in that. what interest the bank has charged is irrelevent to the fact what they did to them. Interest is just another diabolical thing to add to the list and the last few messages are just annoying and out of context.



How is working the rate out is that giving support to these people please enlighten me or nam I missing something



wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:06

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Message 209 of 768 in Discussion

Cyprushome Don't waste your time on the prat crumpy life's too short.The maths of the interest and true cost of this loan is impossible to workout as there is no repayment so whilst an interest amount was applied daily monthly as no payment was made no effective cost could be calculated

The loan was probably to pay off a bad night at the casino and save a beating for the builders who took out the loan.keep up your good work



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:11

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Message 210 of 768 in Discussion

Dear Honestie,



The other night we were out with some Turkish friends at a dinner party in Istanbul. I was telling them about the case, but they questioned the interest rate. We got out the calculator ... and realised something was wrong. As a Mathematician I felt ashamed to be using figures that didn't add up ...



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:15

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Message 211 of 768 in Discussion

Jackie,

You can't expect a maths teacher to look at it the same way, can you? - and anyway, I found his number shuffling mildly interesting - it's not stopping other people discussing other aspects, after all...



Crumpy,

You did make one very relevant observation - that Kulaksiz only accepted the high interest rate because they had no intention of repaying it.

p.s. if you compound the interest annually, you get about 1.9 million Lira - near enough?



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:16

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Message 212 of 768 in Discussion

Dear Wanderer,



As I said before, it would be more beneficial to the case (which I fully support) if we didn't call each other names ...



I am merely asking for the date from whence the loan commenced.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:24

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Message 213 of 768 in Discussion

keith

I agree I dont and yes I agree number shuffling interesting Im always doing it get my bank acount to add up! and youre right doesnt stop other people discussing other aspects but in my grumpy mode it didnt seem to help the victims .



Must stop being grumpy



ps since when could you add up



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:25

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Message 214 of 768 in Discussion

Dear Keith,



Thank-you FINALLY for a civil answer.



However, I have to say that my "number shuffling" is the standard way of calculating compound interest.



As for your question as to the amount amassed if the 80% had been compounded yearly ... yes you are quite correct , it is indeed 1 900 000 TL (to 2 significant figures) ... however, in all the articles it mentions that the interest is quarterly.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:25

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Message 215 of 768 in Discussion

As I said a pompous prat who has no care about the issue other than to belittle the people involved.



As I said come to Karsiyaka and meet the people I am sure they will like to place you in the same ddp shit hole they are in.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:28

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Message 216 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy when people say 5 years sometimes they don't actually mean exactly that number just like when I give my age. With such a high interest rate a few quarters out would make a great difference PLUS, you give the impression that you are calling people liars or idiots, just like I do when I get all pompous, but then I was a teacher too



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:32

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Message 217 of 768 in Discussion

Dear Cyprusishome,



If you continue using such language you will only succeed in having this thread removed ... and that is what none of us wants.



And true to my earlier word (see msg 172) I do intend to join you on such protests ... that is if you promise not to thump me



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:41

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Message 218 of 768 in Discussion

Re : 209 - "this loan is impossible to workout as there is no repayment".



On the contrary Wanderer, because there have been no repayments, the calculations are simpler.



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:42

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Message 219 of 768 in Discussion

Please, everyone -

Have a look at Crumpy's previous posts on this thread - msgs 43 + 92 before you start saying that he doesn't support the victims - calling him names does nothing for your own credibility.

He can hardly help it if his chosen profession leads him to view everything from a mathematical viewpoint - did you see his post on the World Cup? - he managed to bring maths into that!

Also demonstrating that the interest rates were usurious only strengthens the case against the bank, doesn't it? - But to be able to demonstrate it, you first of all need to be able to understand the process, and that (I think ) is what Crumpy is trying to do...



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:54

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Message 220 of 768 in Discussion

Thanks Keith - have to go now ... my partner has told me to go and get the car washed ... and while there I will have to work out the amount of water used



Have a good evening everyone. And as stated above I arrive for good on Sunday ... and look forward to metting some of you ...



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 18:57

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Message 221 of 768 in Discussion

thats a big one keith usurious what does it mean.



I can see from crumpys previous posts taht he wants to support but you cant blame some of the messages failing to understand what his sums mean in context to what happened that night. Maybe just my view and were all entitled but I think if I had been in that position that night someone quoting figures at me wouldnt help as it does come across as that well intentioned.



and thats not hopefullt bringing my credibility into it just stating how it seems.



as for strenghening the case against the bank I would imagine its pretty water tight anyway on their side immorally and ilegally and on the other side morally and legally.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/08/2010 19:21

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Message 222 of 768 in Discussion

Bertrand Russel was a conscientious objector in the last war. As a result, he was sent to prison.



The first day the warder said to him..."Whats your job son" I am a Philosopher sir. he replied. What does a Philosopher do son.



the warder asked. "I think" he replied. Oh Yes, said the warder. Heres a bucket, do you think you could clear the shithouse out.



Now Crumpy appears to me, like our friend Bertram. Give him the bucket, get a bit of service in. And perhaps then your



opinions will be worth listening to.!



Just my view, thats all.



wynyardman



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 20:32

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Message 223 of 768 in Discussion

Re : msg 222



Dear Wynyardman,



In reply to "... then your opinions will be worth listening to", I can only say that my opinions are pretty the same as yours ... however I do like to be sure of the facts behind my opinions ... and the extortionant interest rate charged is key in the case against Akfinans.



In any case, by all means I will do my stint in the ****house as soon as I am settled in KKTC.



Have a pleasant evening,



Crumpy



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 20:43

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Message 224 of 768 in Discussion

Jackie,

At the end of your 2nd para. is the phrase "wouldnt help as it does come across as that well intentioned." - Did you mean to say '...as it DOESN'T come across as that well intentioned...' - which of course completely alters the meaning!

Do you get my point?

Just because someone has a different slant on a situation, either through upbringing, training, whatever, is no reason to ascribe foul motives to him, or call him names

I imagine that a lot of people who might have rallied round in support will now think 'I don't want anything to do with that bad tempered lot'!

If you don't want other's points of view, then form a closed user group so that us 'civilians' don't keep sticking our heads up and saying what we think - of course no one will know anything about it, and no one will turn up at the protests...

BUT - if you choose to air it in public, you won't do yourselves any good by calling people 'pompous prats' when you can't even work out what they really mean



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 21:39

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Message 225 of 768 in Discussion

Now crumpy my mathematical genius friend, there is just one thing you have missed out of your

calculations. We are not dealing with an honest bank. If we were they would show Pauline a copy

of the orginal loan agreement - they refuse. She sort of does have the right to ask since they used

her and everyone elses house on Kulaksiz 5 as security without their consent or knowledge.



You say you have trawled through her articles, you somehow missed the one with the copy of the

court order when Akfinans won their repossession order which clearly shows the interest rate of 80%.

This is a printed court document that cannot be disputed, even by you, it is dated 20th November 2008.



Crumpy the bank now put the debt at approx 2,440.000 TL because they have added their costs in

paying government taxes related to the purchase.



Crumpy you must be fun at parties.......



teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 21:44

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Message 226 of 768 in Discussion

Msg 224: "I imagine that a lot of people who might have rallied round in support will now think 'I don't want anything to do with that bad tempered lot'!"



Couldn't agree more.



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
10/08/2010 21:45

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Message 227 of 768 in Discussion

I´m completely with Keithcaley here.

Guys and gals; I have learned a lot from reading this site, + http://www.hbpg-trnc.net, + http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/category/property/

And I have learned a lot about the horrific treatment of some property-buyers in NC. I can also understand that after such treatment tempers are short, to say the least. For rather selfish reasons I am also very grateful that you make your stories public: so that others (like me!) do not fall into the same traps.

However, msg: 222: "opinions will be worth listening to": if you want "outsiders" (like myself, or like Crumpy) to listen to YOUR opinion/stories; you must also allow us to question you, in all honesty. And not blame math-teachers for acting like, well, math teachers.



(Btw: I don´t know what is "normal" interest rate in NC? The assertion that people only agreed to ursury rates BECAUSE they had no interest in paying them in the first place does not seem unreasonable)



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 21:59

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Message 228 of 768 in Discussion

Msg 226:

Ditto, I´m afraid.



I wish people would refrain from "ad honinem" attacks on other members here, (even if they are driven (understandably!) to their "wits end" by TRNC banks and property sellers.)



Also; I suspect that this will not be solved until people say loud and clear that we are not buying here, because of cases like this. (The Geoff and Mary Day-case also, from what I have read, seem horrific. An absolutely horrible "advertisement" for property developers in NC.)



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 22:14

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Message 229 of 768 in Discussion

msg: 221

You asked what "usury" is?

Take a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury



What I can say is that usury is completely against the ideas of Islamic Banking!



(This is the one, and only one, case where I would say: Too bad that NC is a secular place.)



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 22:40

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Message 230 of 768 in Discussion

expatlady,

'honestie' - Jackie - knows full well what I meant by 'usurious', she was just teasing...

Anyway, let's hope that we can return to 'reasoned debate' now! - and give these people what support we can - it's the SYSTEM that we should be attacking - not each other.



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 22:55

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Message 231 of 768 in Discussion

Hi again,



I don't want to put peoples' back up, but I have finally come across the information I was requesting According to

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/05/31/details-of-akfinan-banks-kulaksiz-5-mortgages/

the 100 000 TL loan commenced in November 2005 (meaning 18 quarters had elapsed by the time of the auction) and the £1600 loan commenced in March 2005 (meaning 21 quarters).



Thus at 80%, compounded quarterly, the TL loan should have amassed to 100 000 x 1.2^18 = 2 623 333 TL

And the sterling loan to £ 1600 x 1.2^21 = £73608 which at TODAY's rate is 174 666 TL.

So, the total loan (not including excluding taxes related to the auction) should be 2 798 000 TL ... which is still very different to the figure given in

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/03/akfinans-banks-cunning-plan-to-inflate-kulaksiz-5-debt/



Someone at the bank is not doing the Math correctly ...



deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 22:55

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Message 232 of 768 in Discussion

I can understand why Cyprusishome should be so enraged that at a time when many are trying to find ways of supporting the unfortunates caught up in what is a total scam a calculator should be used to examine figures of an alleged legal charge when it is obvious that banks are being permitted by government and courts to proceed with actions which have no merit whatsoever. The scam is so shallow it is plainly obvious that banks loan money without requisite enquiries or knowing that the loan will never be repaid by the developer, indeed made in anticipation of recovering the loan from the house purchaser including extreme rates of interest. If the developer failed to declare the interest of the purchaser at the time of the loan he should be in the criminal courts. The bank legal charge should fail for lack of conduct in pre enquiries. Rather than cause more pain with a calculator better to believe "there are only 3 kinds of accountant, 1 those who can count and 2 those who can't" !



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 23:01

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Message 233 of 768 in Discussion

exactly keith and I wouldnt call anybody a pompous prat on this forum you know me would say it to their face. As for my paragraph sorry got it wrong you were right with what I wanted to say was just having a blonde moment Again you are right it is the system we are attacking we just got side tracked or should I say I did with maths.. Lets get on and support



and yes I did know what usury meant !



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
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Message Posted:
10/08/2010 23:19

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Message 234 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy,

You carry on!

If you can prove that the figures used by the Bank are incorrect, you may provide factual evidence to demolish the basis on which the auction was granted.

What you are doing is, in my opinion, at least as useful as what a lot of other people are doing.

Just because you are attacking it from a different angle doesn't mean that you're wrong.



deputydawg,

Unfortunately, it would appear that what is "plainly obvious" cannot be successfully used as evidence to indict those who are responsible for controlling the very courts which produced this injustice.

One can only hope that the E.C.H.R will agree with you (as I do) if Pauline Read is eventually obliged to put her case before them. In the meantime, every effort should be made to find a factual or procedural fault in the 'legal' process that has got us to where we now are - 'In my opinion'.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 08:13

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Message 235 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy anyone trying to help pauline and the rest of the group has her vote.



Now if you could bring some of your tenacity to bear in winkling out the original loan agreement

you would have her undying gratitude.



I have to admit, even with my sleuthing skills, I have not been able to get hold of it - when something

is this closely guarded, you have to ask why? Aunt Jane would turn in her grave.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
11/08/2010 11:36

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Message 236 of 768 in Discussion

actually, Crumpy is giving Akfinans Bank justification for recalculating the loan and coming to a higher figure. Mind you, perhaps the interest is added at the end of the quarter and might have commenced on 30th November 2005, say? I love mathematicians, if they had their head in an oven and their feet in a freezer they'd say that on average they felt just right!



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 12:02

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Message 237 of 768 in Discussion

Re: msg 236 - "I love mathematicians, if they had their head in an oven and their feet in a freezer they'd say that on average they felt just right!" - I've never heard that one before Malsancak



Interest is never added at the commencement of the loan - it is only after the agreed period has elapsed. I guess the discrepancy in the figures is because the court told the bank to stop charging interest about 6 months before the July auction took place.



In any case, with my head out of the oven , we all agree that, whatever the true interest is, it is extortionant and is just one of the factors why Akfinans has behaved in a scandalous way.



Have a nice day,

Crumpy



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 12:11

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Message 238 of 768 in Discussion

plus, no one in their right mind would ever pay those rates (builder) or expect them to be paid (bank). It's mad !!!



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 12:19

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Message 239 of 768 in Discussion

Re : msg 238



"No one in their right mind would ever pay those rates (builder) or expect them to be paid (bank)" - I totally agree Malsancak - they (bank & builder) were probably smiling at each other when they were agreeing this loan.



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
11/08/2010 14:33

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Message 240 of 768 in Discussion

msg 238 &239: " they (bank & builder) were probably smiling at each other when they were agreeing this loan."



That is exactly my feeling too, especially when they did not inform those who had actually paid monies for the properties. This stinks.



May I ask for something? There is now so much written about this case, someone mentioned 50 articles? And some of it is rather, quite understandably, somewhat emotional. For a "beginner" (like myself) it is not always easy to find the bare facts. And, sorry, you cannot expect that people take anyones word for it that things are horrible, we want to see it, preferably without spending too many hours reading every single article written about the case.



I wish there was a *single* page, laid out in chronological order, how thing has progressed.



And this "main page" should have just the bare facts, to make clear the "modus operandi" of these guys.



This "main" page, or "start page", could then have links to different articles writt



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 14:38

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Message 241 of 768 in Discussion



Just as a start:



March 2005: £1600 loan from XX to YY. Registered as a Memorandum on property Kulaksiz 5, as YY still had Title Deeds. New owners not informed.



November 2005: 100 000 TL loan from XX to YY. Registered as a Memorandum on property Kulaksiz 5. New owners not informed. http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/05/31/details-of-akfinan-banks-kulaksiz-5-mortgages/



6th November 2009: Breach of Contract action won be P.R., but...: http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/08/north-cyprus-two-tiered-legal-system/



As many dates as possible, and then links to articles that write about that particular issue. The photocopy of deeds, memorandums etc is very valuable.





(Oh, and apology for thinking that you did not know what "usury" was )



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 15:28

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Message 242 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy, if you dig out the court order as pollymarples suggested in her message 225 you will see that the court imposed the 80% quarterly capitalised interest on a loan amount of 105,000TL with effect from 30 June 2006.



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 15:46

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Message 243 of 768 in Discussion

Msg: 242: can´t you please dig it out?



Update:



March 2005: £1600 loan from XX to YY. Registered as a mortgages on property Kulaksiz 5, as YY still had Title Deeds. New owners not informed.



November 2005: 100 000 TL loan from XX to YY. Registered as a mortgages on property Kulaksiz 5. New owners not informed. http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/05/31/details-of-akfinan-banks-kulaksiz-5-mortgages/



March 2008: New owners informed of mortgages on Kulaksiz 5, when they went to register their Contracts http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/06/10/kulaksiz-5-falsely-blamed-for-north-cyprus-akfinans-bank-property-scandal/



6th November 2009: Breach of Contract action won be P.R., but...: http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/08/north-cyprus-two-tiered-legal-system/



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 16:07

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Message 244 of 768 in Discussion

msg 240

the bare facts is and which sadly is the norm in this case and I think many more to come is:

In simple terms, as has been the way of purchasing here in trnc, as did pauline and others involved in this particular incident

prior to 2008

1) you purchase property and in the main people were purchasing off plan

2) you signed a contract advocates applied for your permission to purchase

3) you paid your stage payments

4) on completion and if lucky, you got your keys and moved in and waited for your permission to purchase to come through and then your deeds could be transferred.



thats the easy version



the more common version;



1) and 2) the same

between stages 2 3 and 4 (contracts were not registered at the land registry as this law did not come into effect until 2008) the builder /kocan holder frequently mortgaged the land they were building or had built on knowing they had already sold them and as the deeds in their name no problem. the banks didnt check.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 16:19

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Message 245 of 768 in Discussion

the banks not checking is complete negligence but thats the banks.

Discovery of mortgages and memorandums on your priopert/land was only discovered when contracts were registered in 2008 and thats when a the scale of underhand tactics was revealed and too late for many. If the builder did not pay off the mortgage the deeds couldnt be transferred and subsequently the bank could call in the loan on the builders assets your home!



options open: you sue for breach of contract for damages you may win that and subsequently that results in a memorandum being placed on the land in your favour land which already has a mortgage on it and the reason you went to court in the first place!



second option you or anyone else pay the mortgage off to the bank in order to get the tiitle deeds which really goes against your principles seeing as everythings already been paid for.



since the registration of contracts in 2008 this was to stop banks from giving mortgages on land /property sold



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 16:25

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Message 246 of 768 in Discussion

msg 244 thanks for the info, I am trying to piece together what happened at what date in this story:

Update:



13.03.2005 : £1600 Registered as a mortgage on property Kulaksiz 5, registred as owned by Yuksel Yilmaz. Charge in favour of Akfinans Bank.



14.09.2005 Abdurrahman Guney for himself and on behalf of Kulaksiz Construction Limited, Yuksel Yilmaz and Pauline Read (purchaser) were co signatories of a Contract of Sale. The Contract specifically denies the existence of any encumbrances and undertakes that there will be none taken. http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/06/03/akfinans-bank-allows-builders-to-mortgage-properties-after-theyve-sold-them/



04.10.2005 Stamp duty paid on Contract of Sale at the tax office



11.11.2005: 100 000 TL Registered as a mortgage on property Kulaksiz 5, as owned by Yuksel Yilmaz. Charge in favour of Akfinans Bank Ldt. New owners not informed. http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/05/31/details-of-akfinan-banks-kulaksiz-5-mortgag



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
11/08/2010 16:26

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Message 247 of 768 in Discussion



March 2008: New owners informed of mortgages on Kulaksiz 5, when they went to register their Contracts http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/06/10/kulaksiz-5-falsely-blamed-for-north-cyprus-akfinans-bank-property-scandal/







6th November 2009: Breach of Contract action won be P.R., but...: http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/08/north-cyprus-two-tiered-legal-system/



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 16:29

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Message 248 of 768 in Discussion

It hasnt however stopped a court judgement being obtained for debt owed by a builder and then the memorandum is placed on the builders assets, your property, and again youre in a position that that judgement can be called in and properties auctioned.





So when asked about the bare facts and horrible That is the bare facts and happening to many people some unaware of what can be happening to their properties.



the extra horrible bits in this scenario is how its been carried out etc but the case leading up to it is the same standard procedure happening to many as thats the law here and that is what is being challenged .



Yes the interest rate and the activities and underhand handling of the properties by the bank some may not believe or want to but just the bare facts as to how the legal system works and purchasing property is enough for people to know it is horrible especially when you are in it.



hope Ive made it as simple nas I can . Paulines articles just confirm it all



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 19:00

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Message 249 of 768 in Discussion

Re : msg 242 - "Crumpy, if you dig out the court order as pollymarples suggested in her message 225 you will see that the court imposed the 80% quarterly capitalised interest on a loan amount of 105,000TL with effect from 30 June 2006."



Thanks for this Joandjelly - I tried my best to search the archives, but couldn't find such a court order :-( (See my msg below) Maybe you could provide a link to it.



In any case, this figure of 105 000 TL over a period of 4 years (16 quarters) would seem to fit:



The loan would have accumulated to 105 000 x 1.2^16 = 1 941 000 TL (to the nearest 1000TL). And regardless of whether the sterling loan was incorporated into this or not, we are then (relatively speaking) much closer to the figure of 2 077 000 TL as given in

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/03/akfinans-banks-cunning-plan-to-inflate-kulaksiz-5-debt/



Crumpy



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 19:08

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Message 250 of 768 in Discussion

Re : msg 240



As Expatlady states "For 'beginners' (like us) it is not always easy to find the bare facts ... we would like to see them, preferably without spending too many hours reading every single article written about the case ... we need a *single* page, laid out in chronological order."



I'm sure your endeavours Expatlady will result in new recruits to the cause.



Crumpy



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 19:47

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Well Crumpy Pauline tells me that she would like to look as she did when she was 23 and that isnt going

happen either.



A single page in chronological order. Do you realise that every single day brings new problems for

Kulaksiz 5. If Pauline lives long enough and ever gets the time, she intends to write a book, the

problem is new material emerges every day. Her research is updated daily. The title

You Couldn't Make It Up



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 19:56

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crumpy the figures relating to the bank loan are just one of the aspects of this case .The other aspects are re the purchase procedure and the legal system that has allowed pauline and many others situation to happen. Then the mortgage and diabolical interest that has to be looked at by the government here as there is no financial control.



As keith said anything to give factual evidence to this case but the facts even without the interest are facts enough as I put in message 244 that allowed this situation.The legal system is to be challenged in respect of how we have been allowed to purchase property and I assure you there are many others in the pipeline and that has nothing to do with interest its to do with antiquated legal and illegal procedures.



Maybe its me but the simple facts of this case are surely enough for people to understand. The chronological order after that re the bank and its outrageous interest just compounds the whole nastiness and greed of these people i



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 20:34

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Dear Honestie and Polly ... look at msg 250 ... can't you see the quotation marks ... I'm not saying I don't support what Expatlady wrote ... but ... forget it ...



honestie


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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 20:55

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crumpy

for beginners its just to say it didntjust start off with the question of the criminal rate of interest charged by the bank the whole situation started off as I tried to simply put it was by the inept and thats a nice way of putting it! purchase of a property in a corrupt legal system. If that hadnt happened in the first place then the situation with the bank could never have occurred and now it has it has just compounded the situation. Yes anything to help with facts helps but calculation and the loan isnt just the story and thats the bit I am trying to get across in a simpler term instead of it focusing on the maths. Yes its appalling but even more apalling is that its even got to that. The whole thread is to bring to attention the actions of the legal system in allowing it to get this far and yes a bank that could only operate here.



hopefully precise calculations will come into it at some stage.



anyway thats 2 of us I give up



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 20:59

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Dear Honestie ... look at msg 250 ... can't you see the quotation marks ... I'm not saying I don't support what Expatlady wrote ... but ... I give up ...



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:07

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Crumpy....I know that numbers give you a warm glow , but irrespective of whether the interest rate is 8% , 18% ,or 80% , can you not accept that it is WRONG full stop to have a system whereby people can buy in good faith , pay in full , and satisfy all their own contractual obligations , to then end up having their home auctioned from under their feet?



I know it's hard for you but forget the maths,that's just an incidental side issue.

Observe the bigger picture and just admit that it is just plain wrong.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:09

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crumpy of course I saw the quotation markst hats why I madeit simple for beginners couldnt really be any simpler Im afraid some of it bacme difficult when the calculations came into and yes I did understand the avenue you were going down !just not the angle you were coming from but thats my opinion and has made a good debate and kept the thread at the top .Its not about you or me its about the support for these people and they made need the calculations but we need to change a system first



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:18

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Re : msg 256 - "irrespective of whether the interest rate is 8% , 18% ,or 80% , can you not accept that it is WRONG full stop"



As early as msg 204 Crumpy stated "Whether the interest rate is 65, 70 or 80% it is still far too high and I'm sure that Kulaksiz only accepted it because they had no intention of repaying it."



Some of you really do need to go back and see who said what



... and Honestie (re msg 250, 252, 253. 254 and 255) who is quoting who ...



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:25

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Re : 257 - "crumpy of course I saw the quotation markst" ... and I presume, Honestie, you understand what it means to quote ... so please can you and now Cronos get off my back ... or is it that the mere mentioning of Maths teachers brings back bad memories for you ...



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:25

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Crumpy....do you have delusions of grandeur? ;-)



Why are you referring to yourself in the third person?



And thanks for the stern advice "Some of you really do need to go back and see who said what"



We promise we'll try harder in future Sir !



steveafc


Joined: 12/12/2008
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:27

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Message 261 of 768 in Discussion

this is message 261....................................this needs to end !



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:31

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sorry crumpy youve lost me have a good night and as I said Ive given up so no more quotes



msg 256 cronos



thanks Im on your understanding and I must stop being grumpy



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:32

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steveafc, if only. Don't think closing the thread will stop the problem. Might just make a few people happy because its out of the public eye, though.



Jefferson


Joined: 17/05/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:32

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I am so sorry for all you involved people and i know that nothing i can say will help. However my thoughts are with you all.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:34

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Malsancak...msg 263



Do you think there are any posters on here who would be happy if this was out of the public eye ? ;-)



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:38

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Dear All,



My fiance and I arrive on Sunday ... and once settled in KKTC I was fully prepared to do everything I could to support the unfortunate people living in Kulaksiz ... and others in danger of losing their homes.



However, following some of members' comments on this thread, I have decided not to get involved ...



:-(



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:39

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Dear Crumpy....msg 266



I suspect that was your intention all along......Goodnight.



cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:41

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Message 268 of 768 in Discussion

"Well after all that Crumpy", it just dont add up )



steveafc


Joined: 12/12/2008
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:44

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Message 269 of 768 in Discussion

Malcolm .......of course it won't stop (or solve) the problem.............but................it just gets too much...........and as much as i feel for these people ( and i do ) enough is enough



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 21:59

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Re : msg 267 - "I suspect that was your intention all along" - So, I'm a liar as well ...



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 22:03

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........Goodnight Crumpy.



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 22:08

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Is this rudeness all because you didn't like being corrected Cronos.



cronos


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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 22:10

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I can't remember actually being "corrected " Crumpy , but if it works for you then that's fine......Goodnight.



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 22:22

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Cronos, refer to msgs 258 and 260.



I am sorry to other members for how this thread has degenerated. I will not send any more messages.



I too am tired Cronos ...



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 22:50

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Message 275 of 768 in Discussion

Ok, just a few general notes:

1. msg 251: "A single page in chronological order. Do you realise that every single day brings new problems". Yes. Still......

2. when I try to understand the picture here, it is to see what has gone wrong. And it looks as if there are *several* issues (not just one): like new mortgage on property already paid for, AND ursury rates.

3. I had though of buying here: that is why I want to see ALL the pitfalls.

4. Imagine: I have two set of people, telling me COMPLETLY different stories. One is telling me: it is safe to buy! The other: it is pure hell, and a complete fraud, Who will I believe? Those who say: "Just take my word for it!" No: I believe those who present the best facts.

5. In all writing there is a basic rule: don´t TELL people, SHOW them. And "show them", in a way that it takes less than 10 hrs to understand. I have already spend 4-5 hrs piecing the story together: that is too much for most people. And I still don´t have the full picture



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
11/08/2010 23:06

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..though I fully understand that writing, both here, and other places can serve as a "medicine", a therapy, if you like, for the people in it up to their neck, I wish you would consider what you want to ACHIEVE with your writing? Is it just a personal "get-it-of-my-chest"? A private therapy?



Or do you want to educate others? Influence people?



It is your choice. Please think about it. The second alternative does not automatically follow from the first.



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 00:57

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Message 277 of 768 in Discussion

Although tired, I am unable to sleep ...



So, I have reread some of the messages above ... and I would firstly like to apologise to Honestie ... unfortunately I didn't read (your) msg 252 as thoroughly as I should have done. I picked up on the phrase "chronological order" and presumed wrongly that you were trying to make the same point as Polly did in msg 251. My subsequent messages to you were inappropriate.



Secondly I apologise for upsetting people with all the Maths. In my defence though, for me (misguidedly maybe) it was necessary to be sure of all the figures, if I am to support the case.



Please be reassured that for the last six weeks I have been truly committed to the cause I felt so agrieved one evening (August 2nd) I actually sent an email to info@akfinansbank.com with "Zavalli Kulaksiz'daki oturanlar - ne bicim bir bankasiniz !" written in the subject box, which translates as "Poor Kulaksiz residents - what kind of bank are you!".



Regards to all ...



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 01:21

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Message 278 of 768 in Discussion

crumpy direct your energy now to the victims of gary robb, we are so many the use all your analalytical powers and advise us please



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 13:13

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crumpy apologies accepted



I was just trying to explain that this situation and I am repeating myself was not the high interest of the bank but the flawed and thats a nice way of putting it! legal system compounded by a ruthless bank. To some and myself included the path you were going down was lost with us but no doubt spot on with your view and calculations which at the right time will be invaluable.



some have asked for the the thread to be closed as enough is enough! if the thread was carrying on as it was. But the thread was started to inform everyone of yet another incident by the bank and to bring awareness to us all.



Im afraid the thread seem to get hijacked by other issues. I hope the thread is kept going with the intention it was started. I am not part of the kulaksiz residents. I live here and like many have my own legal proceeding in process although not quite in the same position as others.



We want to change the system bring awareness to people



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 13:30

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as many are still unaware of what could be happening to their properties.



As lilli said your energy can certainly be put to good use and at the right time your calculations invaluable so I too apologise if we got off on a wrong footing and lets carry on to support even if just by this thread/forum these poor people.



Ex pat lady

If some say its ok to buy and some dont then you have to read the other threads which will give yoiu a lot of advise . as with anything only you can decide and this thread wasnt necessarily intended to advise to buy or not its in my opinion to bring this incident?incidents to peoples attention as Im sure theyre saying enough is enough themselves.



I know when I write what I wish to ACHIEVE is a simple awareness and support.If from that people wish to educate themselves they can dig deeper.

In my simple terms awareness can lead to educating.

Influencing people is a a differant category it can come from awareness ,education or other other avenues



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 13:41

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Message 281 of 768 in Discussion

I have ginen the simple way of what went wrong with purchasing property here for many people. Not all were in the position as they had builders who were honest but for the ones who didnt or who havent then they have used the legal system to their advantage.



No matter what order things happened to the kukakiz 5 the legal system let them down thats it and thats a legal system one has to look at understand and then you can decide to take a risk or not. Things change here on a regular basis and advocates interpretation varies.



hope this explains and I think now most if the rights and wrongs have been debated til the end and we should move on to keeping this in the public eyed for the right reason.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 13:44

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Message 282 of 768 in Discussion

Crumpy



I like & applaud your action in sending an email to Akfinans bank. I've used your heading in Turkish and added

"Your policy in mortgage lending to developers against property that you know or should have known, has already been sold by that developer to an innocent purchaser is a terrible stain to the reputation of your company, the TRNC and Turkey."



I doubt the bank officials will take the a blind bit of notice but if enough people do it, you never know.



Crumpy



Joined: 05/06/2010
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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 13:50

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Message 283 of 768 in Discussion

Re : msg 279 - "crumpy apologies accepted" - Thank you Honestie.



Incidentally, re: msg 277, I don't feel sending that email to Akfinans was the cleverest thing to do, but I think it proves that I do feel very strongly about all this ... and regardless of whether the perpetrator is Akfinans, Gary Robb or Oskan Besok, I will support you to fight these injusticies ...



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 13:59

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Message 284 of 768 in Discussion

Dear Hector ... thank you for msg 282 ... my TC fiance wasn't that happy I sent that email ... but ... yeah ... thanks ...



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 15:22

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If you haven't got your deeds yet, keep this thread alive. If you've discovered a mortgage when you applied for title deeds tell us which bank was responsible. If you're fed up with the thread then you don't have to click on the link.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 17:18

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Message 286 of 768 in Discussion

Steveafc, do you know how many people would love to say enough is enough and then all their problems

would disappear. Life isnt like that and if you dont like what you read, dont read it. There are lots of

alternatives on Cyprus 44, you dont have to tune into this thread. Pauline is all in favour of free will.

and so am I. Sorry if we are boring you. I am sure we would all prefer our lives to be boring than have

to wake up to this mess every day.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
12/08/2010 17:32

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We would all prefer it pollymarples,

Geoff



100672


Joined: 17/06/2009
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 00:22

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Message 288 of 768 in Discussion

Deepest sympathy to all those suffering such worry. I see talk of other bank auctions of property in Karsiyaka, where can I found out more please?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 06:30

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100672



Usually on the coffee shop door, which is how the Kulaskiz 5 found out. No niceties like having a leaflet

through your door. In theory it can all happen without you even knowing about the auction. Which is

why it is as so insidious.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 08:49

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When there is a loser there is always a winner. A lot of readers here won't like this, but such auctions can mean a great buy for a newcomer, provided they take all the precautions many of us should have taken (but didn't).

Two sides to every saga, why cannot this thread be made a "sticky" so newcomers can easily find it and read all about the pitfalls of property purchase in Cyprus - and as I have said before there are similar problems on BOTH sides of the border - and the benefits,

Geoff

retiring to my Famagusta City bunker!



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 08:58

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Message 291 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff,

You said "such auctions can mean a great buy for a newcomer" - are you completely bereft of any sense of morality?

Do you think that just because the inane laws of this place say that the name on a Kocan signifies who is the owner that it is also ok to forget everything that your parents taught you about right and wrong?

Or do you believe that any action is ok as long as you can get away with it, regardless of the suffering that your actions might cause?

I think that you're singing from a different song book to the rest of us!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 08:59

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Geoff, I think you may have been in your bunker throughout the entire thread. What precautions could a foreigner take to prevent the same happening to them apart from people who say NO KOCAN, NO MONEY! and who, because of that, the bank won't deal with them? Of course, Akfinans Bank won't get into financial difficulties during the 3-5 years the buyer waits for their kocan and would never have their assets (including Kulaksiz 5) seized. Could never happen could it?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 09:00

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Fortunately, most decent people wouldnt bid but of course there will always be one. Not you I am sure

Geoff! Did you see the strangle hold Pauline got that potential bidder in at the Kulaksiz 5 auction, four

policemen did not deter her. Be afraid, be very afraid.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 09:14

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oops keithcaley wrote, "Do you think that just because the inane laws of this place say that the name on a Kocan signifies who is the owner"

I think you might be inviting a few GC comments here, it will be interesting to see who though and whether the thread will end up being closed because of it.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 09:14

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Geoff/Msg290: 'retiring to my Famagusta City bunker!'



You obviously have no concept of the Cypriot law that not only allows, but clearly condones these iniquitious bank scams.



Your mean sarcasm, made at the expense of other innocent people's misfortune, is liable to land you with a very expensive dentist's bill if you're not careful!



Jefferson


Joined: 17/05/2010
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 09:32

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Message 291 Couldn't agree more it would be totally immoral to bid but they will still sell.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 16:14

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Re 291: I am not bereft of morality, just a realist. So should you be!

Geoff

Now emerged from the Famagusta bunker and taking in the rays on Palm Beach. This is why we are all here, place in the sun etc, low cost of living, cheap houses etc. Not to argue the toss and chewing the cud.



P.S what do we have to do to get this thread marked as a "sticky"??



nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 16:47

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Unfortunately there are people who will try to profit from other's misery and I'm sure some would level that accusation at me also, having purchased on "exchange" land. Ignorance is bliss!

However it is the manner in which Akfinans Bank (and Koop Bank) go about their business that appalls me. More akin to a seedy, backstreet, "break-your-legs" moneylender than a respected, high-street institution, Akfinans Bank should be seen for what they are: a morally bankrupt organisation - and keeping this thread alive will serve to warn others of the potential dangers of doing business in TRNC.

I had thought that in dealing through registered solicitors (Advocate) and banks that I would be protected - I could not have been further from the truth.

So keep this thread alive: to warn and to educate.

NO KOCAN - NO MONEY!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 16:50

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Yes Geoff that is exactly right - wish I had the time to relax - Pauline says it will be when she buys a small

plot in Lapta Cemetry.



ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 18:01

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My builder has a memorandum against him by another bank. But he has reached an agreement with the Bank that the Bank will take half of his land and he will sell a lot of land to people like me who have paid everything in exchange for getting our deeds.



The problem with this is the amount £20-£25k and getting the majority of the other 50 homeowners to agree.



I have agreed as I just want this settled and will have a piece of land as well. So I commend my builder (yes he is at fault) but at least this is a compromise proposal.



Is the K5 site beyond this???????



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 19:37

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geoff think we all now know your just trying to wind peoople up for whatever reasons best known to yourself.

and think youre just best ignored. Maybe you always were and you just wish to get some attention think its worn off now so youre best relaxing and chewing your cud wherever you may be and enjoy your retirement/ please keep out of the sun it can affect the btrain.



lets keep the thread for the real reason which we keep getting side traced on



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 19:45

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Honestie,



Geoff is an agent provocateur who hinds behind the cloak of devil's advocate.



Don't put him off posting on here....it keeps a valuable thread at the top....but don't give him the satisfaction or oxygen of publicity by responding.



Good luck with your continued fight.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 19:47

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sorry...."hides"



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 19:49

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K5 is beyond that and then some. When they drive a car at you at speed, I think negotiation is well and truly over .



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
13/08/2010 19:53

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cronos Realised you meant hides cloak of devil 's advocate yep and hes probably is one advocate that is!



cheers Honestie



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
14/08/2010 14:58

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Message 306 of 768 in Discussion

Re 302: Cronos is right, and I've said it myself, this thread IS a valuable thread and should be kept at the top of the listings (i.e. a "sticky"). I have asked 3 times how can we get this thread marked as a "sticky" but no on responded. Newcomers to KKC deserve to know the pitfalls of property purchase here and how to avoid them.

In my view no one should be put off buying a house here provided they know how to avoid being ripped off.

Geoff



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
14/08/2010 15:10

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Geoff.....if you have a GUARANTEED system to avoid being ripped off in the TRNC property market ,then I suggest you set yourself up as a consultant.



As far as I can see,no amount of knowledge or "homework" can protect you 100%....all it can do is minimise the risk.



How about you charge people maybe £5K for your services.....but if they don't get PTP and unencumbered title deeds in their name within 3 years you give them £10K back?



Is your system that foolproof?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
14/08/2010 16:54

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cronos, as long and the £10K is put in a secure account. Trouble is a lot of builders would pay Geoff £10k to bring the suckers to them and he'd still be £5k in pocket



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
14/08/2010 17:58

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suggest you all read Ipek Ozerim in Cyprus Today - today - she really tells it like it is.



Good one Ipek.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
14/08/2010 19:38

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malsancak.....good point



But I was only going to give him the £5K fee when I'd got my deeds !



No win ,no fee

NO KOCAN , NO MONEY !



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
14/08/2010 20:10

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pollymarples,



Any chance of you copying and pasting the article for those of us that cannot get Cyprus Today? I have always admired her articles because as you say, she tells it like it is.



Londra Gazette also ran an article about the K5 auction and were supportive to their cause.



Tasgirl


Joined: 31/12/2008
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Message Posted:
14/08/2010 20:57

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Dear Ang1706 did you also note in that offer that banks are forbidden to own property by TRNC law ( not that anyone observes the law here ) ? so the half property half money could not ever be accepted by the loan sharks, but if that statement in N.M.'s letter is true how on earth did the bank bid for and buy the K5 houses ?



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 00:48

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Bradus,

Your profile says that you are in England.

You say that you cannot get Cyprus Today.

It is available in the UK by subscription.



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 00:57

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tasgirl i have asked that question to many of my cypriot customers as usual shrug.However i heard tonight and i do not wish to start any rumour that its all been sorted and the owners are to pay 10k each, any truth



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 07:17

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Lilli,



Absolute rubbish. I do wish whoever starts these rumours would stop and think the damage and hurt

they cause.



AKFINANS wanted £40,000 from each owner before the auction - they have never made an offer

after the auction but have indicated it will be well in excess of that amount now, if they did

make an offer.



Lilli - Pauline says, would you please tell whoever gave you information, we know they mean well

but IT IS WRONG...............



Bradus I will ask NCFP if they can print Ipeks article and all you then have to do is Google North Cyprus

Free Press. Give it a little time.



Lilli, you are one of Pauline's favourite posters - always so positive - and your smile, she loves it.



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 07:28

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Hi I heard it from a customer who has a villa by the ones in question. I told him that it was probably another rumour to make the bank look good. I did not know the person but he does post on here and is following the posts. Hopefully he can clarify where he heard it from. Tell Pauline I like her, now admire her also. Her strenght is an insperation to us all



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 09:47

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Re Msg 307: Cronos, I wouldn't want to make money like that out of other peoples unfortunate misery.

In any case prospective buyers will get all the main facts on websites such as this one, which is why I think this thread should now be marked as a "sticky". I am retired and don't want work anyway!

But maybe someone else could take up your idea of becoming a "consultant"??

Geoff

Famagusta City.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 10:44

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Geoff....msg 317



Hahaha...nice get out Geoff.

But you wouldn't be making money out of other people's misery.....because under my proposals,if your 100% guaranteed scheme didn't work , then you wouldn't get paid !



I'm sure that no-one else will take up the challenge , because as we all know , in the TRNC no amount of research , knowledge ,expertise or "homework" can protect you from a flawed ,biased and discriminatory legal system.



I do agree with your suggestion to make this a "sticky" though.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 11:54

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cronos



the only sensible thing geoff has said make it a sticky mind you earlier on he wanted the thread closed! but

as you said shouldnt put him off posting as his posts are inspirational



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 12:04

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Right for Bradus and anyone not able to get Cyprus Today



Google North Cyprus Free Press - click into Cyprus Today article - there is a link at the end of the article

which will take you into Ipek's excellent article. Well worth reading - this lady has you know mens thingys.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 12:51

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Pollymarples



read the article and excellent . I hope she is right in her forecast . Keep up the good work and so many people behind you



honestie



Bradus


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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 13:16

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http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ipek.pdf



Thanks Pollymarples. I think this article is an accurate reflection of what is happening to many buyers in the TRNC as a result of memorandums being placed on properties. I am amazed at the amount of people that have recently discovered memorandums on their properties and never really worried about not having their title deeds until now.



This article says so much about the apathy and unwillingness to intervene from the very people who have the power to introduce change and prevent this and further scams from occurring.



Why can't people see the long term damage this is having on the property market?



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 13:29

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msg. 312

tasgirl wrote: "Dear Ang1706 did you also note in that offer that banks are forbidden to own property by TRNC law ( not that anyone observes the law here ) ? so the half property half money could not ever be accepted by the loan sharks, but if that statement in N.M.'s letter is true how on earth did the bank bid for and buy the K5 houses ? "



Not completely true. The banks can bid and buy a mortgaged property in order to prevent it going very cheap but they have to sell it within a year.

ismet



cronos


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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 13:29

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An excellent article....and all the more forceful because it is written by a TC who is ashamed by the actions of the TRNC authorities.



It is a pity that the TRNC govt seems to have no shame at all.



honestie


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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 14:05

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bradus





you are right that how many people have just realised about memorandums which have taken over from the mortgages as the registration of contracts hasnt catered for memorandums yet another loophole!!! people still dont realise that they are at risk as whenever mentioned they said no worries Ive got a good honest builder. Who know what can happen in a day, week .month or year . without your kocan youre still at risk. If anything puts house prices up it will be for the ones with the kocans. Not everyone has bought just for investment many have bought for the home to live here and dont want to loose their home. either way investment or home it has to be addressed.



Ismet. can a bank buy and bid for property at any auction to prevent it going cheap or only at an auction they have initiated to call in their loan?



Bradus


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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 14:43

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Why don't people wake up and ask, "What possible reason could my builder have for not handing over the deeds?"



Surely any honest builder would see the transfer of the deeds as the final step in the legal process?



Wake up and smell the coffee................if you do not have your title deeds you are putting yourself at risk. Do everything you can to obtain them and if there is a reluctance on your developer to hand them over take immediate action to prevent memorandums being put on your property.



Never use the excuse my builder is a friend and I trust him! Would a true friend hold onto something that morally he should no longer legally own, if it wasn't that the TRNC laws unethically allowed him to do so?



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 15:32

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Your builder is not your friend - period - you have a business deal with him. If you do not have your Kocan, even if you have registered your contract, get a search done with the land registry, if there is no extra

mortgage/court memorandum behind your contract - ask your advocate about putting your OWN charge

in behind your contract, then you become the 1st and 2nd creditor and it will deter anyone from using

your property as security against a loan YOU have not taken. I say deter - nothing will stop some of these

sharks, but at least you wont loose your money. It will cost to do this but the peace of mind will compensate

for the cost. If there is a charge/court memorandum, the sooner you find out, the sooner you can act.



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 15:43

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Re : msg 324 - Cronos wrote "It is a pity that the TRNC govt seems to have no shame at all." - Cronos, I think there might possibly be more to it than that :



Yesterday evening, I was talking to an elderly TC friend of my fiance’s family and he gave me some insight in to why the ruling TC elite are (a) reluctant to do anything to upset the present corrupt house-buying applecart and (b) not at all keen on the island’s reunification.

In the late 80s and early 90s with Eroğlu as prime minister it was decided that the formerly Greek-owned properties should finally be allocated to those TCs who had lost land and property in the south. Obviously this was a massive undertaking, requiring for example signatures of the former TC muhtar and three other TC witnesses, who had to testify that the applicant did indeed own the land or property. As one would expect, applicants often became frustrated with the slow process and would employ agents to do all the work for them.



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 15:44

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(continued from above)



Now then, according to this elderly friend of my fiance’s family, some of these agents were not operating as they should do: Typically he says, the applicant, on applying for, say 10 acres, would be told he was in fact entitled to 30 acres, but “to speed things up” he would be given 15 and then told to sign his name on documents whereby he was agreeing to sell the remaining 15 to mainland Turks or Brits ... but of course that money for the land would go into the pockets of the agents. These agents would then pay off their mates in the office dealing with this property allocation ... and, according to said elderly gentleman, pay a certain amount to those in government ... so they would turn a blind eye.



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 15:45

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(continued AGAIN from above)



Until recently the agents and the politicians at the time had no worries about being found out. However, now with the ‘border’ open and reunification a distinct possibility, these agents and politicians are concerned that if and when the GCs start asking for compensation for the land and property they lost, international auditors etc will be brought in to examine all the documents ... and will discover these wrong-doings that occured when Eroğlu was prime minister ... and, according to my elderly TC friend ... the wrong-doings from which Eroğlu directly benefitted from.

Yeah, I have no proof for all this, but it would explain why Eroğlu is reluctant to stop the injusticies being committed in the house-buying sector at the moment – after all, he himself (according to my elderly TC friend) was involved in similar wrong-doings 20 years ago. It would also explain why he is less than keen to to have the island reunified.



DeaconB


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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 16:53

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I can’t believe that there are any corrupt ministers in the TRNC government. You will be suggesting that our own politicians fiddle claims next.



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 17:02

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Hi Crumpy, Well wether its true or not, which i would not be surprised as i have heard similar from elderly GCs. It seems all those in Government and names we still know were at it. Its just scandalous to think the fate of cypriot people is based on the fear the bad guys get found out and thhe innocent expats suffer



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 17:20

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Crumpy, that (and other stories that cannot be verified) might explain why the government are reluctant to issue title deeds but not why they are reluctant to stop Banks putting mortgages on already sold properties.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 17:22

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And now you know why the law and justice are at opposite ends of the spectrum. May God help the TRNC.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 17:52

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malsancak



I realise the government can and should step into making the a lawful requirement to transfer the deeds but its the builder thats the first obstacle who uses the law to not transfer. The government could and should step in and crumpys message may explain why they dont however if you have a company then you have no problems with transfer as you dont wait for permissions to purchae snd its the permissions to purchase that holds it up as we all know and thats when we have the risk without a kocan



Im sure theres stuff going on we dont and will never know thats the trouble we are at their mercy and I think we all have known that and taken that slight risk just we never envisaged the corruption thats emerging now. But theres more behind the scenes of that Im sure



Tasgirl


Joined: 31/12/2008
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Message Posted:
15/08/2010 23:08

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Dear ismet, thank you for your insight into TRNC Law, however, the statement from our learned friend in her letter to my fellow residents is quite clear '' under TRNC banking regulations, banks are not permitted to own real estate directly'' is she wrong ? If she is wrong and you are right who will be watching to see that the money lenders don't hold these homes for more than one year and a day ?



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 00:55

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msg. 336,

Tasgirl,

Essentially the banks are not allowed to accumulate immovable properties but they are alowed to bid and buy mortgaged properties as a temporary measure i.e. they have to get rid of them within a year. I am not sure about the penalty if they keep them any longer and who looks after these matters. I would think it comes under the control of the Central bank but I am only guessing here. The correct answer should be found in the relevant law. Hence Akfinans Bank did not act unlawfully by taking part in the bidding.

ismet



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 07:02

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Elko 2 is absolutely correct, they can own them for one year although Pauline still officially maintains she owns her property. Who polices this - dont be silly, AKFINANS thinks it is above the law, witness their

lock changing fiasco and vehicular attack on poor Chris. Pauline and Chris are okay, bent but not broken

although, if Chris had not jumped out of the way in time, he would have been very broken, if not worse.

This is not an exaggeration, it is a fact.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 08:42

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I have re-read all posts on this thread. Can someone please answer the following questions:-



1. Does Pauline own the property, i.e. fully paid for, or was it/is it on a loan/mortgage?

2. Was a PTP issued?



Geoff

Famagusta City



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 09:26

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Geoff, do we read the same thread? Crumpy did all your homework for you.



For those paying attention go to north cyprus free press todays article



Akfinans makes the Mafia look like a Benevolent Society



honestie


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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 12:02

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Ismet



Sorry to repat my question to you msg 325 and reference subsequent posts.



1) can banks bid for properties at auction that they themselves have the mortgage on or can they bid at any auction for mortgaged properety in order to stop the price being low. Also you mention the central bank are we talking about central bank here in north cyprus and if so what do the regulate etc and where would I find the relevant law in relation to banks and financial control thats a joke! here



2) If you take your builder to court as for whatever reason he wont transfer and plays the games they do in order to get out of paying taxes and getting more money.

3) If you win for breach of contract and get damages awarded and you subsequently place a memorandum on the builders assests( of which yours is one of them for which youve been to court) and you then ask for the judgement to be called in will all the builders assets property be auctioned and do the creditors take order of who is first



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 12:45

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'Cypriot law is based on British law...'



Correction: Cypriot law is based in Cyprus and British law is based in Great Britain!



If this were not the case, this Kulaksiz 5 'atrocity', together with Akfinans Bank's [alleged] ensuing actions, would never have been allowed to be [purposely] perpetrated, let alone 'legally' condoned.



LondonCypriot


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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 12:59

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I would go to Mr Rauf Denktas and ask for support and help and explain all of these things. Mr Rauf Denktas is a keen supporter of the victims from my understanding. The more support and media attention, the better.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 14:38

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Just to clarify a couple of points.

1. I do not read anything and everything, so if you have a question for me in the middle or the end of a general message, I am most likely to miss it, e.g. see msg. 325 above.



2. It seems that the banking law is not on the internet and hence I have difficulty checking it. Of course I have all the laws in pring udner my hand but once you get used to internet its difficult to go back to old ways. Anyway, ı would imagine that a bank can bid only for property tht they have a mortgage on themselves. It would make no sense if they could bid at any auction.



3. Registration: I have always maintained that registration should protect the owner against memorandums taken after the registration but you will need a good lawyer to argue it out in court. I believe that in the case of Pauline, they had a judgement in favour against the builder. Thus if they had placed a memorandum on the assets of the builder before the bank they should have got priority.



ismet



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 16:08

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Re Msg 340: I re-read all the posts on here and could not find the answers to my questions.

I'll make it easier, does Pauline own the property outright, Yes/No?

Geoff



jillyjugs


Joined: 21/07/2010
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 16:16

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yes as she paid for it as per contract but no as she does not have kochan in her name



Molly


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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 16:17

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Post 345



Geoff, forgive me for being blunt but you portray yourself as being stupid; or you are being deliberately obtuse.



If Pauline owned the property, this situation could never have arisen. Technically, she is the owner (as she has paid for the house) but because she COULD NOT get the title deed, because of the mortgage, she is not the LEGAL owner.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 17:08

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Geoff, I am quite sure you are an akfinans lacky, therefore you know , Pauline does have the PTP but could

not get the transfer because of the mortgage. She did try.



Why is it you are deliberately trying to muddy the waters. Dont bother to answer, we already know.



The answer you demand - she considers herself to be the owner. Good enough for you.........

Go back to your paymasters and report - bent but not broken despite their and your best attempts.





Elko her memorandum should take precedence over all others, but in this country - who knows?



Whatever happens she intends to fight the Bank, if not for herself, for her innocent neighbours, to the end.



So GEOFF, go back and tell them.She does hope they enjoyed her blog today watch this space................



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 17:51

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Am I the only one who has noticed Geoff's south Cyprus email address. It may not be relevant but perhaps it's just a wind up. Mind you, perhaps like many of us, he finds it hard to believe that Pauline has paid every penny for the property but has not been issued title deeds. There are about 100,000 in the south in the same situation and some of them too are beginning to discover the builders are being given mortgages on finished properties they've sold.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 18:45

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malsancak,



A good observation. Worthy of further thought!



wyn



lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 19:35

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wynyardman and malsancak



see message 175



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
16/08/2010 22:41

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come on geoff some more inspirational questions to keep this at the top



Tasgirl


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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 00:20

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Hi everyone, may I present a screen play.......... curtains open on a builder as he goes to his bank manager and suggests a quick, get rich scheme, '' Hi cousin'' ( everyone is related in this country ) I have sold some english families homes on my land ( maybe stolen but we won't talk about that ) but I want get a 4x4 quickly and I have kept the title deeds in my name, ( organized for my benifit by the government) so if you give me a few 1000 quid 'init' I'll sign a blank agreement to repay you 1000 % interest and when it reaches enough for you to take early retirement, you can steal their homes ( with permission of the courts and the government ). Excellent says the Banker, no one can say I'm a crook, I'm just helping my family to get another 4x4. Everyone exits stage left, singing aren't the English silly Buggers ?



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 00:27

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tas that about sums it up, sad but true, nott just the english many different nationalties also in the same boat x



girne 29


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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 03:24

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Tasgirl

You didnt write the script for 'The Untouchables' did you.? Where's our incorruptable Elliot Ness going to come from.?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 03:59

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Tasgirl so close to the truth.



Here is your material for the next act in your play, the everyday story of mafia folk



Yuksel Yilmaz (landowner) best friend of Ertul Kader Akfnans Bank Manager/part owner

Abdurrahman Guney former director of Kulaksiz Const. also friend of Ertul baby.



Friends know everything going on in each other's lives.



Horses head on the pillow - oops sorry, getting carried away.............



Yilmaz family settlers from Trabzon Turkey circa 1974 - so never paid a kurush for the land.



Okay ready for act 2 scene 1 - enter Tasgirl................



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 07:00

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Re No. 349: I have never tried to hide the fact we have TWO houses, one in Famagusta and the other one in Vrysoulles. So what?

Geoff



Geoff


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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 08:38

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It would be better if these debates could avoid getting personal. First 349 about my email address, now 358.

Listen buddy, our houses are paid for - even though we don't have title deeds for both of them.

Is Pauline's house also paid for outright?

Why is it so hard to get a straight answer on here sometimes?

It makes a big difference if it was paid for in full, as compared to having a loan/mortgage, especially if that loan/mortgage was in arrears (I not suggesting it was, I don't know, do you?).

There has been a lot of mumbo jumbo on this thread, difficult to see the wood for the trees.

Geoff



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 08:51

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Geoff, I haven't written anything about you having two houses!

Anyway, scene two (fiction) - Akfinans Bank writes a cheque to itself for 2 million TL, to pay for Kulaksiz 5, and it bounces. They look at their balance and discover that they've only got 1,800,000TL in the account. Even though the cheque is made out to themselves it first has to be taken from the account. Two months later they are still trying to work out how to pay for K5 but it is too late and the sale is cancelled and everyone lives happy ever after



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 10:45

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geoff

most of the mumbo jumbo is written by you!



If youve read anything, you will see pauline has paid in full and how could she have got a mortgage /loan on it The banks wont allow mortgages to us on exchange land as far as I am aware. I dont think its didfficult at all for you to see the wood for the trees you seem to be the only tree. And not being personal you just ask for the replies you get as your posts just go on and on about questions that have already been covered.and even if she had held back for bad workmanship is the whole saga still lawful!!



As I said you really are inspirational!!!!



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 11:02

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Geoff reminds me of a criminal defence lawyer who tries to get his client off on a technicality despite knowing that he committed the crime,has committed previous crimes,and is generally a low life scumbag.



Geoff,for his own reasons,is always trying to argue minor points to deflect the blame onto the victim and suggest contributory negligence,rather than admitting that a "legal" system that allows this situation to arise in the first place is wrong,full stop,and has no place in a "civilised" society.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 11:06

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Geoff, it would be interesting, especially for someone posting from the south, for you to summarise what you think happened at Kulaksiz 5. It is always good to get the views of an outsider.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 11:18

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good point malsancak mind you think we know his views as think in one of his previous posts he did put them but would be interesting to see them again.



cronos

defence criminl lawyer..do you think he could be that good !aggree he could try to get client off although from the postings on here doubt it Would love to give him a run for his money though and be the prosecuting lawyer



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 15:52

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Message 364 of 768 in Discussion

Re 362: I would if I could, but I have been trying to learn the full facts of the case, so far to no avail.

Sorry malsancak, can't help you. Maybe YOU would care to summarise it all for us to see, since you imply that you know the facts, even if we don't!

Geoff

P.S. you'll find the other recent thread about property of interest:

"New law what does Elko think or others please?"



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 15:55

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Message 365 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff, why should anyone want to go over the same old ground ov er and over and over again.

MESSSAGE FROM PAULINE

I have never had a mortgage in the TRNC. That someone would think it ok to take a mortgage on my property

after I had contracted to buy it and paid the money for that purchase in my books and in the mind of decent

honest folk is wrong. What you think, frankly I couldnt give a toss. Back off - we all know your objectives.

You fool no-one



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 16:15

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Message 366 of 768 in Discussion

geoff



As has been said you are probably on this thread to wind people up if so youre are just coming across as so unintelligent not even enough niw to wind up.



you have already had the facts msg 40 a link then msg 52 etc etc.



plus many other summaries. what exactly is it that you want to know that has somehow managed to excape you on this thread.



ask the question or questions which no doubt have already been answered and maybe a reply can be given yet again



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 17:50

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Message 367 of 768 in Discussion

Many thanks Pollymarples (Msg 365), that is the info I had been after.

In that case she is just like many of us here in the TRNC, messed about.

If only we knew when we bought our houses what we know now!!

Time to get on with th rest of our lives me thinks.

Geoff



honestie


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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 17:57

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Message 368 of 768 in Discussion



if only! yawn



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 19:11

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Message 369 of 768 in Discussion

Hi again guys



It does come over that some of you are being a little hard on old Geoff - I really don't believe he is trying to wind anyone up ... yes, he may be a tad forgetful (aren't we all?), but I sincerely believe that like myself and Expatlady he just wanted to be sure of the facts.



Think of it this way guys, more than anyone else, Geoff has kept this thread at the top of page, thus enlightening all newcomers to the forum of the injusticies committed by certainer builders and banks here in North Cyprus ... moreover injusticies that the present government seem unwilling to put right.



As I said, we have Geoff to thank for this thread being a virtual sticky



By the way, if needed, I'm alongside you at the next auction!



Regards to all,

Crumpy



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 20:16

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Message 370 of 768 in Discussion

Geof wrote, "Sorry malsancak, can't help you. Maybe YOU would care to summarise it all for us to see, since you imply that you know the facts, even if we don't! "

"we" ?????? I guessed that you didn't understand, but you should have said. Rather than go through the whole story again, first I'd like you to say what you have learnt so far. I just don't want to go over the things you have already understood. So, what parts of Pauline's story in the 365 comments have we understood?



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 21:07

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Message 371 of 768 in Discussion

come on crumpy course he is how many posts are there on here which have given the circs. Plus he wanted it to close the thread earlier on then hes just annoyed people and have to say me included now I am just bored However you are right its keeping it at the top but we dont want to go off the thread to discuss our geoff there again maybe we do if i keeps this going.

anyway as Malsancak said what part of paulines story has he understood and what more does he want to ask???



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 21:32

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Message 372 of 768 in Discussion

I think I'm right in saying that this is the longest thread ever on Cyprus44.



So that I don't have to read every post on this thread can someone tell me in a few short words exactly what this thread is about.



Thanks.



cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 21:34

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Message 373 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff's the man to ask No1, he seems to be clued up on everything )



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 21:39

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Message 374 of 768 in Discussion

Pauline bought a property on a site called Kulaksiz 5 and after she paid for it and whilst waiting for PTP discovered a mortgage on it put there by Akfinans Bank which was originally 106,000TL but increased to 2mTL because the builder never made the repayments so the bank auctioned the property and bought it for about 2mTL and then whilst changing the locks of Pauline's house, without an eviction order, they drove away and nearly ran Pauline's partner down and despite this the police failed to properly investigate the incident.



No1Doyen


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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 21:45

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Message 375 of 768 in Discussion

Thanks malsancak. That's despicable.



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 21:54

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Message 376 of 768 in Discussion

I like many many others have followed this thread with the greatest of sympathy towards the residents of this site. What I cannot understand is the likes of No1 Doyen posting such a damn ridiculous comment when he posts on here all the damn time. What is his problem!



Crumpy



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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 22:08

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Message 377 of 768 in Discussion

Hi Natalie ... maybe No 1 Doyen shouldn't be making light of this thread but his comment "Thanks malsancak. That's despicable." had me in hysterics.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 22:23

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Message 378 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff, I wholeheartedly agree. why dont you go and get on with your life i.e and leave those

who are not in the pay of Akfinans Bank to talk about something you deliberately pretend you dont understand.

You are a very sick individual who Pauline truly feels sorry for.



Post edited due to inappropriate language.

AJ



ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
17/08/2010 22:44

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Message 379 of 768 in Discussion

For Tasgirl,



I am not a legal expert, but according to my builder the Bank CANNOT own or take land for the FULL exchange of the debt.But they can do as what has been proposed.



My Lawyer is also in the loop regarding this issue and all other parties are being contacted, so I ,optonistically believe that it is allowed otherwise I would not have been interested. Meetings are going on as we speak between Lawyers, Bank and Builder so perhaps this is a way forward.



I personally hope this is allowed and not another scam to be ripped off at the 11th hour!!



But are very interested in what developments if any can be sought for the people on K5!



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 05:46

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Message 380 of 768 in Discussion

How strange since Pauline is also very directly involved in this and has heard NOTHING.

Message 379 - where is this information coming from????/



Tasgirl


Joined: 31/12/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 12:45

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Message 381 of 768 in Discussion

dear ang1706 please keep us informed of any developments, as they occur, from the discussions with your lawyer and builder, anything that assists Pauline and friends will be good news for us all. Make no mistake, the sharks are circling us all, who are in jeopardy, just waiting for next chance to attack



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 14:33

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Message 382 of 768 in Discussion

Does the number of viewings this thread has attracted mean that purchasers are finally getting worried??



Can a new thread i.e. PART 2 be started because this one takes longer to load now!!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 15:25

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Message 383 of 768 in Discussion

One of the advantages of a thread with so many views and comments is that it shows the strength of feeling. Once a part 2 thread is started the impact and all this information is lost.



honestie


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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 15:33

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Message 384 of 768 in Discussion

it does take longer to load and to get through but as you say once part 2 is started will it loose its impact or will it loose it anyway through the thread being to long. Is there a way to do it with a part 2 and keep the impact and views as Im sure theres a lot more to come and with views there comes more info unless its from geoff that is!



As you started the thread think it would be for you to do whats best and to keep getting the interest and support



honesie



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 18:36

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Message 385 of 768 in Discussion

I think what would end this thread should be when there is nothing new to say and everyone realises that if an ex-pat buys a property here there is a likelihood of a mortgage being placed on it. In Cyprus Today they stated that court cases because of debt in the TRNC have risen from virtually nothing to 16,000+ cases last year. It is debt that is part of the reason for the auctions.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 19:21

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Message 386 of 768 in Discussion

As in most things people dont think its going to happen to them. If the thread is closed will you open another to keep us all upto date of any good news or the worse further bad news so any further support can be given either via this forum ar any other way





thanks



Honestie



zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 19:24

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Message 387 of 768 in Discussion

No Further Posts Here..







Sorry.. This thread reached its maximum limit of 255 posts.







Don't blame me! It's a database limit for a byte!







You may post a new topic with the same title and keep going? Ehh..







-Izzet



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 19:26

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Message 388 of 768 in Discussion

See PTP Confusion thread.



Same principle (or lack of) same bloody rip off!



wyn



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 20:01

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Message 389 of 768 in Discussion

The PTP delay was blamed on the Turkish military being slow to respond! If the PTP process could be reduced to the 4 months it took me in 2002 then the mortgage problem would disappear without any need for new legislation.



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 20:03

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Message 390 of 768 in Discussion

Malsancak



This thread will remain hot even if a Part 2 is started. Many banks are rubbing their hands in anticipation of forthcoming auctions.



Your comment in post 385 is incorrect. Providing purchasers register their contracts, no mortgage can be obtained by the landowner/vendor.



The current court cases relate to mortgages taken out prior to Jan 2008 when it was not possible to register contracts of sale. Unfortunately, the protection afforded by contract registration is limited and does not preclude memorandums being put on the property.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 20:26

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Message 391 of 768 in Discussion

and as the builders realise that as the registration doesnt cover it they now use memorandums. Someone comes along goes to court says builder owes whatever with interest and builder says yes my lord I do hey ho judgement recieved memo placed on the builders assets (your home )and there we are blackmaiedl to pay meronadum to get your deeds. Profits shared by the two who went to court.



believe me its happening fraud yes proving it difficult. As we all say whilst the kocan is someone elses name you are at risk for further debt



honestie



wanderer


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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 20:37

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Message 392 of 768 in Discussion

honestie

I had not thought that bankers would do such things



They are such professional tailors sorry bankers

John leCarrie could not of written better but with this story there is no ".Smiley"



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 20:37

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Message 393 of 768 in Discussion

honestie....it is easy to believe the scenario that you describe.



On many developments where buyers have problems either with the build or with getting deeds,more often than not the builder will blame it on a dispute with the landowner,or a partner who is a brother/cousin !



I admit that my own experience of the TRNC has made me very cynical,but I wouldn't be at all surprised if these "disputes" were engineered between family and friends as a convenient excuse to absolve themselves of responsibility for completing a contract and handing over deeds.



Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 20:48

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Message 394 of 768 in Discussion

The whole world is in debt, why should the TRNC be any different?



wynyardman



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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 20:51

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Message 395 of 768 in Discussion

Cronus,



Spot on again. Another astute observation.



wyn



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 20:51

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Message 396 of 768 in Discussion

I can assure you it does and it isnt banks it can be any debtor. money lender family friend in fact anybody From what I now know I dont even think has to be provided to a judge I think if the builder says YES I DO then case proved! scary but not surprising



sound like a wedding you pay to get out of that one too! joke



and of cousre it does easy then for the builder landowner especailly when they transfer all their assets to or buggar off to outer mongolia.



Most of these cases have a similar thread some worse as it is in this particular thread others not quite as complicated but on a same theme want more money by any means.



And no not negative just honest and realistic not all have had problems and they have had honest people building and to deal with its the whole system letting it down and there must be a bigger piciture going on behind the scenes scary to know what



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 21:27

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Message 397 of 768 in Discussion

I think this thread is important because the Kulaksiz 5 story has it all, not just the 106,000TL mortgage on the sold property which turned into 2,000,000TL but also the successful court case by Pauline where she has so far won nothing, the auction where the bank buys the property for exactly what it is owed, the illegal changing of locks, the attempt to maim or kill which the police seem to ignore. There's a novel in there somewhere!



Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 21:30

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Message 398 of 768 in Discussion

If this was the UK, we'd have'm bang to rights. Unfortunately, when in Rome.............



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 21:32

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Message 399 of 768 in Discussion

Malsancak..."There's a novel in there somewhere! "



Good idea.....but you'd have a real job convincing the outside world that this was fact and not fiction.



It sounds too unbelievable for anyone not familiar with the TRNC !



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 21:36

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Message 400 of 768 in Discussion

Washerman....msg 398



"When in Rome...expect to be a victim of state sponsored corruption" ?



Is that the saying that you are thinking of?



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 21:41

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Message 401 of 768 in Discussion

Malsancak,



They would not listen, they did not know how, Perhaps they,ll listen now!



INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION? SOMEONE NEEDS TO START THINKING ABOUT IT!!



wyn



Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 21:42

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Message 402 of 768 in Discussion

That's the problem, I think that some people's expectations were too high and no, when in Rome, do as the Romans do, but I don't know, I wasn't on that job



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 21:43

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Message 403 of 768 in Discussion

Oh they are starting to be recognised Wyn.



Recognised for what they truly are !



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 21:46

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Message 404 of 768 in Discussion

Washerman.....do you think that paying for a property in full and wanting title deeds for that property is expecting too much?



Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 21:48

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Message 405 of 768 in Discussion

Depends who you are dealing with.....Soldier, Sailor, Candlestickmaker...............



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 22:07

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Message 406 of 768 in Discussion

cronus,



Message 404 Yes bloody right I do...........in any civilised society!





wyn



Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 22:09

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Message 407 of 768 in Discussion

"Civilised" according to whose rules - Buyer Beware!



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 22:15

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Message 408 of 768 in Discussion

Washerman.....the usual casual throwaway comments,but no real answers or depth to your responses.



Care to expand?



Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 22:17

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Message 409 of 768 in Discussion

Cronos......Care to be more specific?



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 22:18

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Message 410 of 768 in Discussion

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/letters/could-ireland-provide-answer-developer-worries/20100307







More in common with the ROC than you can imagine!



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 22:19

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Message 411 of 768 in Discussion

Not really....I don't want to help you derail this important thread.



Keep in touch with yourself !



Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 22:23

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Message 412 of 768 in Discussion

Cronos......OK



Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 22:27

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Message 413 of 768 in Discussion

So, Bradus, Cyprus is corrupt! What, more than Ireland, the UK etc. etc.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 23:09

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Message 414 of 768 in Discussion

no probably just as bad but more tools (and I say that in the nicest possible way) to deal with it. and as we are dealing with it here and not UK or Ireland we use the tools we have here which are very very limited. bit like the brains some of them have but then they must be brainier they get away with it.

good tv series tinker tailor ...........



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
18/08/2010 23:17

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Message 415 of 768 in Discussion

Cronos(message 399) It is not unbelievable to me although I am a new poster to Cyprus 44, I am not new to TRNC corruption.



I have been reading this board for some considerable time, and have written many books in my head, it is so corrupt a country that I now want no part of it, I lost a lot of money (which is nothing) but my loss of faith in human nature has made me so angry I cannot any longer believe anything anyone has to say to defend either the Government or any of it's inhabitants, this thread has made me believe that just maybe there are some victims who want to change that corruption, but with Advocates who don't know what they are doing, a Government who don't know what they are doing, and victims who don't know where to begin to try to put the corrupt system to rights, we are all going round in circles, I believe thats what the present Government want, that eventually we will all go up our own backsides



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 07:21

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Message 416 of 768 in Discussion

Pauline wants you all to now that the novel that comes out of this debacle is going to be hers.



Why do you think she ends so many of her articles/comments with YOU COULDN'T MAKE IT UP

that will be the title.



She thought winning the Breach of Contract and then receiving the money would be the end (stop laughing)

she had no idea at that time what lay ahead. Be assured, she is an avid keeper of records, her research

is ongoing and if this ever ends, the book will follow, even if she has to publish it herself.



She is a lady of strong resolve.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 07:48

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Message 417 of 768 in Discussion

Back in September 2005 I helped set up HBPG and was voted onto the steering committee. I bought http://www.homebuyerspressuregroup.com and created a website which allowed homebuyers to star rate the service they'd received from lawyers, builders and estate agents. It worked, a group of Girne lawyers threatened to sue me for £200,000. The committee outvoted me and so I took off the rating system. I knew it was successful the minute the lawyers responded. The point of this is that if no one is upset at what we're doing now we can't be doing it right.

HBPG has always been seen as the lead when it comes to property issues but not when it comes to the issues that count, i.e. unworkable PTP regulations, ability to put mortgage/memorandums on deeds, withholding deeds and using them to blackmail buyers, they seem to be silent.

I learnt from the 2005 experience that I will not lead and instead stick to publishing North Cyprus Free Press. Perhaps we need some legal ideas about how to stir things up?



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 10:16

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Message 418 of 768 in Discussion

Malsancak.....I never knew you were a founder member of HBPG,but your comments make a lot of sense.



The HBPG in its current form provides a very useful service to buyers by offering advice and support.

I am certainly not knocking the integrity and efforts of those involved.



However,as I've said before,I think that the TRNC government, Ministers and advocates are cynically playing along with them and just paying lip service,whilst having no real intention of changing anything.

They just see the HBPG as a minor irritation.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 10:27

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malsancak/Msg 417: 'HBPG has always been seen as the lead when it comes to property issues but not when it comes to the issues that count, i.e. unworkable PTP regulations, ability to put mortgage/memorandums on deeds, withholding deeds and using them to blackmail buyers, they seem to be silent.'



Excuse me, but they are NOT silent!



Please consider this:



Why should HBPG members/advisors wish to risk getting themselves deported any more than you, or I, do?



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 11:37

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Message 420 of 768 in Discussion

malsancak



what reason did the solicitors give for threatening to sue. I know why but just wondered as to their official reason



thanks

honestie



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 12:24

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Message 421 of 768 in Discussion

Tenakoutou, HBPG may not be silent but they appear to be when it comes to things like Pauline's partner being nearly run over, and this allows builders and banks to carry on without any pressure being put on them. I also run the risk of being deported but then why would I want to live in a country that would deport me for telling the truth? I do not knock HBPG for their advice and support role, I just believe they would be better named Homebuyers Group and perhaps a different group should be formed which was more able to put pressure on builders, advocates, estate agents and the current government.

honestie, the reason for the £200k amount was because of the damage to their reputation/cashflow that would occur for saying, for example, Advocate A did not discover a mortgage on the property I bought, and so I give them 1/5 stars.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 12:29

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Message 422 of 768 in Discussion

certainly have it tied up dont they and as I think was discussed before. I take it you cannot sue solicitors but they can sue you is that correct.



Its ok I think even my blonde moment has guessed that one



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 12:59

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Message 423 of 768 in Discussion

mind you I wonder what advocates would do if someone merely wrote "Advocate A did not find mortgage on the property"? In my case my Advocates, Gurkhan & Gurkhan, discovered unpaid taxes and warned me about them. My problem was not with my advocate.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 13:39

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Message 424 of 768 in Discussion

This perception that you will be deported for telling the truth is a perception encouraged by the TRNC

simply to gag you. Unfortunately, they have not found a gag big enough for Pauline. Talk about gob

on a stick...........



She has now discovered that since changing her locks, they have been back and cut off her electricity,

also without a Court Order.........dont ask her what she needed electricity for????????/



kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 13:52

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Message 425 of 768 in Discussion

TRNCvictim - "but with Advocates who don't know what they are doing, a Government who don't know what they are doing".

Sadly, I believe they know exactly what they are doing.



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 15:37

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Message 426 of 768 in Discussion

Kaiserphil



Correct. They aint stupd, if they didnt know what they were doing, we would be screwing them instead of the other way round. To convince people to part with their life savings to pay for a property they wont own for years, or worse never own ,and to manipulate the legislature,shows a high level of intelligence and cunning,which, if you are not affected yourself ,might even draw admiration.



john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 15:52

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Message 427 of 768 in Discussion

trnc now = turkish republic of nepotism and corruption



invest a lira here at your peril



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 16:03

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Message 428 of 768 in Discussion

I don't believe this has anything to do with the TRNC, it is to do with the inability or, more likely, the disinterest of people in power to protect those living and visiting here and the same is happening in the south and throughout the world wherever people allow it to happen. For those who blame the TRNC I would say that the only reason that these powerful people are getting away with it is because the people who live here are letting them do it!



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
19/08/2010 17:24

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Message 429 of 768 in Discussion

msg#417 malsancak:

I did not know that story; most interesting.

A similar thing happened in the south, but there they withdrew: http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/libel-case-against-cpag-dropped/20100612



Obviously, "someone" needs to set up a web-site outside TRNC, preferably through an web-provider, say in NW Europe or the US. It doesn´t cost much. This provider would then not reveal the name of the involved in the web-site, unless there was a court-order to do so. And NO court in, say the US would give such an order based on just a rating of builders...



Even better: set up the web-site for CPAG (ie; property-owners in SC) here in the north...I´m sure the "powers to be" here would love to see all dirt from "the other side" out in the open....



Within a month I predict there will be a similar web-site set up in the south.... dishing out all bad things there is to say about the property-marked in the north...



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
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19/08/2010 17:25

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Sorry

Dont get you Mal ' it has nothing to do with the TRNC'.



Thats like saying ,the heroin trade has nothing to do with Afghanistan,its just the farmers,who are like farmers elswhere.



The TRNC are the people who live here, the TRNC are the people who allow it, the govt is the govt of the TRNC,the lawyers work under the law of the TRNC ,the builders and estate agents work under the leglislation, or non leglislation of the TRNC.

AND

The people that will eventualy get rid of the corruption will be the good and honest, people ,lawyers ,politicians, who are there,but have to remain quiet for the moment.They are real patriots,the ones who do not think sweeping things under the carpet is a way of showing how much you support the TRNC.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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19/08/2010 17:37

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girne_29, I think we're agreeing with each other. It's not the TRNC it's the attitudes of ALL the people who make up what the TRNC currently is and those attitudes can change. It's like when people blame the British today, or the Germans for example, for what happened in the past. All who live here are the TRNC, we might try to hide from that fact but we get the government we deserve and deserve the government we get. Even I am guilty of trying to avoid that fact by saying that I haven't been given a vote here and so I'm innocent. I like your last bit although the keeping quiet bit is also what causes the problem to perpetuate.

BTW, some say there would be no heroin trade if there were no need for illegal heroin and they call for it to be legalised. Causality, now there's a topic you should avoid if you want to stay sane.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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19/08/2010 17:41

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expatlady, it was me that put up a copy of the CPAG website and then was asked by the original owner to take it down. I've still got a copy. North Cyprus Free Press is published in the US and we are happy to publish the truth or to quote named individuals who have something to say.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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19/08/2010 20:40

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See Pauline's latest offering on NCFP - if nothing else, Malcolm's words coming from Dixon of Dock Green

will make you laugh.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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20/08/2010 08:10

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Akfinans Bank has now allegedly, without a court order, cut off electricity to Pauline's home - http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/20/kulaksiz-5-homeowners-in-north-cyprus-fight-alone-against-akfinans-bank/



pollymarples


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20/08/2010 10:39

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Please be aware that Pauline acknowledges and appreciates all your support, she is having a GO at those



who could support Kulaksiz 5 and all the other victims in this fiasco they call a property market,



but CHOOSE not to. Thank you all for being brave enough to stand up and be counted.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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20/08/2010 12:03

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As has been said so many times so many people dont realise ti could be happening to them and maybe rround the corner. Its assumed that because of registration we are safe but no we are not. there are mant satisfied customers out there and may look as though we are just ;whinging as they put it.



There are many scenarios of differant problems with off plan purchases here and in other countries but we are here ,trying to fight it here, as this is where our homes are and most people will fight for their home.



Paulines situation and her neihbours has developed into something more sinister ( as have other purchases eg. Gary Robbs development far more than just an average something gone wrong and a bit of a lax or sloppy service



sorry guys but if Emily Pankhurst hadn t fought for the vote then we would never have got it just as Akfinas bank probably wish they had never heard of Pauline Read.



Keep going theres a lot of people behind you even if it is just moral support



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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20/08/2010 12:10

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Geoff Day was temporarily jailed for allegedly stealing paint left on his property by his disgruntled builder. He then had to attend court for 40+ occasions. Now, Pauline has a receipt for the villa she paid to be built on the land that Akfinans bought at the auction. I wonder if at some point she'll be able to accuse them of stealing her property?



DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 14:49

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These injustices and the clear racial prejudice is not allowed in civilised countries.

To just sit back and do nothing whilst these people are victimised should not be acceptable to anyone.

What has happened to the Days’ and the Kulaksiz residents is a disgrace and needs to be shown to the world as such.

How about Cyprus 44 arranging collection of donations to take out a full page advert in a UK Newspaper to highlight the problems and at least help others not to fall into the same trap?

Or should you just keep a low safe profile?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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20/08/2010 15:18

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although the idea is good the trouble is that today's news is tomorrow's chip paper and like the Orams case, will soon disappear from the public eye. The money might be better spent on a 1000 give-away T-shirts (high profile event for that) with a high impact English and Turkish message on them. Not sure what the message would be though.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 15:26

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Malsancak...."Not sure what the message would be though. "



This would be catchy....



T urkey's

R otten

N epotistic

C ousin







Maybe not !



DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 15:29

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Any action is better than no action. Sitting back and keeping a low profile was what the average German did when the persecution of the Jews began. This situation is not that dissimilar. If allowed to they will take and take whilst a complicit, largely related, TRNC Government watches



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 16:54

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DeaconB, I'm behind you all the way but it would take more that an advert in an expensive UK newspaper. Pauline's story has been on the front page of local newspapers and that made little difference.



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 16:59

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....and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office will publish the fact that they have always warned their citizens about buying property in the TRNC !



DeaconB


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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 17:15

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I know that I tend to be more than a little negative about the dealings of the TRNC Government at the best of times. In this instance I feel strongly that enough is enough and we the expats bring shame upon ourselves, and invite similar treatment from the greedy, if we do not get fully behind these people and draw a line in the sand. Or is everyone happy to sit back and see who will be the next victim. In a world of hawks and doves I know it won’t be me but I still care about the rights of dove that it will be and that might be you.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 17:23

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Perhaps if the front page of the Home Buyers' Pressure Group website was to say NO KOCAN, NO MONEY! in every EU language and also in Russian then perhaps buyers might get the message?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 20:12

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None of us truly believed the gov. would allow us to watch our houses be auctioned - they did



None of us believed they would allow us to be illegally evicted - they did



None of us believed they would turn a blind eye to attempted murder - they did



None of us believe they will allow legally sanctioned eviction - they will



None of us believe Geoff and Mary are guilty - they dont either but they allow the farce to coninue



WHY DO THEY DO THESE THINGS - because they can........



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 20:58

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"With lies you may get ahead in the world - but you can never go back." ~Russian proverb



The government would do well to take on board that quote. As would the dishonest builders, estate agents, lawyers etc. Yes, there is corruption everywhere in the world - it's just that here they are more blatant about it. You cannot create a positive, prosperous country or environment that is built on lies, deceit, underhand practises, racism, victimisation, and retarded business. A bad reputation sticks. So much for austerity measures, North Cyprus needs to protect all its residents in law, life, and community. That's what a civilised nation does. To get something positive in any area of life, you have to put something positive into it. North Cyprus is sinking into a black hole and the people in power either don't care or can't be bothered to care. There are many good people who know what's right and wrong, but will they ever be allowed to make a positive difference?



Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 21:10

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Dear Polly



'trying to finish us off'



Julie xx



john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 22:07

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None of us truly believed the gov. would allow us to watch our houses be auctioned - they did







None of us believed they would allow us to be illegally evicted - they did







None of us believed they would turn a blind eye to attempted murder - they did







None of us believe they will allow legally sanctioned eviction - they will







None of us believe Geoff and Mary are guilty - they dont either but they allow the farce to coninue







WHY DO THEY DO THESE THINGS - because they can........



trnc



turkish republic of nepotism & corruption =



yeni trnc



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
20/08/2010 23:16

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Deacon B, I like you am very negative about the TRNC Government, and like your idea about the advert in the UK press, it might cost a little money, but I DO KNOW that both the TRNC Offices and the Turkish Embassy in London will hate it!



Malcancak the front page of the HBPG will never say "No Kocan No Money" they are to scared of their own shadows!



We can keep fighting in words on this forum, but until you get out there and really let them know how we feel, nothing will change, for Pauline and the rest of the victims of the TRNC and believe me it really makes no difference from where we all come from, it is only by being united there is any hope of letting this corrupt Government, Advocate's and Estate Agents know they will not win what has now become a bloody war!



And yes Cronas the Foreign and Commonwealth Office will continue to tell us they have warned us!! such a pity they" DID NOT WARN US IN 2003"



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 07:26

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Believe me if Pauline has her way - it will be out there, outside these borders, but will the world care????



When you have nothing left, desperation leads you...........



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 08:29

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TRNCvictim Msg 450: You are correct, the FCO did nothing back then, in fact quite the opposite. We bought our first house in Cyprus in Feb 2003, we checked via our MP with the FCO and we were told that on both sides of the Green Line no problems. The BHC were no better.

Like I said before on here, to both Pauline, myself, and others: Buyer Beware. If it looks a real bargain it most likely is not.

What can we all do about it? Sod all,

Geoff



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 08:47

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Pauline has sent another epistle to NCFP to be published today.



In it she is asking you to:



1. Write to the MP in the last city/town you lived in, in the UK telling them what is happening

and copy in the local newpaper there. MP's do not ignore the press, they might inore you.

2. Send a copy to President Eroglu.



You can google all the address information you need. If enough local papers pick this up, so will the

national press.



If you are not brave enough to do number 2, at least do number 1



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 11:03

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TRNCvictim/Msg 450: 'Malcancak the front page of the HBPG will never say "No Kocan No Money" they are to scared of their own shadows!'



What a snide, thoughtless and scurillous comment to make about the thoroughly decent, public-spirited and stalwart people, who have so selflessly committed so much time, effort and concern on behalf of so many victims - such as yourself.



Personally, I couldn't care less if you are new to this forum - you owe them [HBPG] an abject apology, which, I am sure, most forum members would expect to be forthcoming.



DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 12:00

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It is true that HBPG, especially Marion, has campaigned long and hard and have the full admiration and respect. of all, but low profile tactics and negotiations have been proved not to work. Please take up Pauline’s latest suggestion and email/write to your UK MP and newspaper, write to Eroglu If you feel that you are afraid to speak out in the defence of people who are clearly being persecuted then you should seriously be asking yourself why. TRNCvictim is absolutely right the last thing the TRNC Office and the Turkish Embassy want is to be in the press for persecution and disregarding human rights, so that is a good place to start.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 12:16

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Right Tenakatou the way forward is to work together - divide and con quer - lets not give them

the amunition.





Have you written to your MP yet - dont forget to copy in the local newspaper, from little acorns........



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 12:46

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DeaconB/Msg455: ' * but low profile tactics and negotiations have been proved not to work.'



So, what do consider holding a weekly, public meeting ['surgery'] at the 'Pia Bella' hotel, having a high profile website, and constantly lobbying TRNC ministers for change, to be?



As for writing to UK MP's - I wrote to a high profile EU MP [re Kulaksiz 5]. The reply I received was to voice my concerns to their appointed representative in Nicosia - a Greek Cypriot!



* You're another one that also needs to publish a retraction and proffer an apology.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 12:47

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It's a valid point that the HBPG have worked tirelessly to support buyers. They rightly deserve the praise they so often get.However as more cases come to light it is becoming very evident that they are very much a reactive support network as opposed to being proactive. Their strength is in negotiation with builders and buyers and finding ways forward to complete buildings and obtain title deeds. Usually this results in buyers paying more money to the developer and even covering his debts! I have spoken to many in this situation who thankfully did get their deeds by agreeing to pay much more than their agreed contractual price, but they feel that this has become a cop out for unscrupulous builders and by taking this route they are perpetuating this problem.



Given the increase in this particular problem I would say they have a point? Tactics certainly need changing and one thing is very evident the change is not going to come from HBPG and a softly,softly approach.



Bradus


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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 12:53

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They have tried hard to work in partnership with the Government who have sadly just paid lip service and totally ignored their request for constructive change.As a result many people are now beginning to think that the Government have led the HBPG on a merry dance.



Their current approach is understandable, given that they could lose their citizenship or face punishment for openly criticising the TRNC Government. Maybe what the TRNC needs is a real pressure group rather than a support group that does not rely on the patronage, goodwill or approval of the TRNC Government for it to operate?



cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 12:57

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And unfortunately,for such an organisation to exist,it may have to be based and operate outside of the TRNC for its own safety.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 13:02

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pollymarples/Msg 456: 'the way forward is to work together...'



Casting aspersions against HBPG is certainly not 'working together'.



Consider this: 'A house divided against itself cannot stand.'



Perhaps, TRNCvictim & DeaconB should have thought of that before carelessly tapping such tripe on their keyboards.



As a 'Kiwi', I don't have a UK MP to make contact with, which is why I contacted a Euro Parliament member - unfortunately, as you may have read in Msg 457, only to be fobbed off by a cursory reply that I consider to have been a bloody insult, no less!



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 13:18

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Concerning the resistance to 'change'; is it conceivable that the Turkish government could possibly be complicit with the TRNC government in the latter's apparent intransigence?



Are they totally oblivious to all this 'Banana Republic' politicing that is being perpetrated, and are they not the least bit concerned that their own reputation is also being besmirched by their lack of intervention - especially in consideration of their EU membership aspirations?



The mind simply boggles!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 13:40

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Tenakoutou wrote "is it conceivable that the Turkish government could possibly be complicit with the TRNC government in the latter's apparent intransigence"

You're not suggesting that by writing to the TRNC President we'd be writing to the wrong government, are you? This would seem to imply that HBPG could also be trying to persuade the wrong government and this could explain why it is having difficulty with the wider issues such as changing laws which only benefit business people.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 13:51

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malsancak/Msg 463:



Well, you said it!



Who am I to suggest, or advise?



Next question:



How likely is it that CY44 postings are scrutinised in Ankara?



cronos


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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 13:56

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Tenakoutou...."How likely is it that CY44 postings are scrutinised in Ankara? "



I know we all like to think our voice is being heard and our opinions matter ,but I honestly think that although our postings on here may be monitored in Ankara,we are dismissed as just a minor irritation in their greater plan.



malsancak


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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 15:01

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As long as we just talk no one is going to worry, but organise a visible protest that might be seen by world media and that's a different story. Government officials start to panic then. However, HBPG tried the protest path and were quickly promised (but not given) what they wanted. I hate to say it but only images of pensioners being evicted will work in the end, the government/banks will try to prevent this by getting the evictees to pay to keep their homes. They know the majority will do this and the rest, I suppose, they'll expect the stress to get them to give up for one reason or another.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 15:18

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Re Msg 453 from pollymarples.

Excellent suggestion, will do soonest. I have my old UK MP's address, what is the correct address for

President Eroglu please??

Geoff



apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 16:04

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i think your uk mps will also give you lip service or refer to their government website whish states..

The Republic of Cyprus is a full member of the EU. But the country remains divided by the 'Green Line' which separates the 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' from the rest of the island. The 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' is not recognised by the British Government.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 17:37

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However, if it could be shown, although I doubt it could, that Turkey was interfering in the process of law then this would be a different matter. Turkey controls the police so I suppose ultimately the decision not to prosecute the high profile dangerous driving which could have injured Pauline's partner, could be traced to Turkey. He is an EU citizen and as such could complain to the EU. I don't believe anything else in the case could be traced to Turkey.



apc2010


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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 17:45

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lets be honest if the mp feels he can gain more votes/ popularity he will help , but as there is little incentive to him/her , I doubt very much they will bother , same the world over .........



the newspaper ad , will have a much better impact or a website with a similar address to something important to the government ............



apc2010


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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 17:49

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on the website idea check out this site................



https://secure2.uk2.net/domains?domain=trnc&x=14&y=14



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:28

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At least if we try and fail we will have the satisfaction of knowing we tried, what will doing nothing achieve?





My point being that a deluge of letters on the same subject just might have some effect especially if

copied to the local newspaper in the MP,s constituency.



I have already sent several and will go through the cabinet. Nothing ventured - nothing gained!!



100672


Joined: 17/06/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 19:09

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I sympathise with the obvious desperation being expressed, but a little note of caution - the economic situation is already dire - if there is sufficient publicity to prevent anyone purchasing here, how many more builders/estate agents etc are going to go under - leading to many more problems. It seems to me that looking ahead the main focus of effort should be on finding a way to unblock the Permission to Purchase logjam. I appreciate this does not help some of you already in trouble - but as anywhere in the world, getting to the right person, who has the power to change something, is far more effective than a "scattergun" approach. Does anyone have any idea who that "right" person might be?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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21/08/2010 19:28

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perhaps if we keep telling prospective purchasers NO KOCAN, NO MONEY! then the government will pull their finger out and shorten the PTP time?



cronos


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21/08/2010 20:09

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100672...msg 473



You make some valid points , but the softly softly approach will not work on a government that is unwilling to listen and treats victims with contempt.



As perverse as it sounds,maybe the only way to affect change in the TRNC is to generate enough bad publicity worldwide,so that the tourism and construction industries ARE actually threatened with terminal ruin !



Only when TC's feel the pain and start to support the victims of the property scams,rather than remaining silent,will the necessary change come.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 21:06

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cronos, I think ABAG are trying that http://tinyurl.com/29jcjy8



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 21:20

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The necessary change will only come if and when Turkey give TRNC 'the message' - certainly NOT before!



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 21:26

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Forgive not a whiz kid, also have title deed probs, peanuts compared to Pauline's and co problems. Joining the EU in 2004 has done absolutely nothing to solve the self same problems south side. They are as bad if not worse. Could we not li nk up with the pressure group south side somehow to make our voices louder, especially in the 'event' and I hold my breath, of a solution. Failing which, why can we not lobby Turkey instead of this waste of space of a puppet 'government' here?



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 22:01

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When you buy a property in good faith, whether pre '74 TT, or 'Esdeger' - you should be granted sole ownership by way of title deed soon afterwards.



This needs to be 'rammed home' to Turkey at the *highest level - but the problem is, precisely, *TO WHOM?



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 22:14

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What disheartens me is the way various TRNC politicians, all too few though, when they choose to actually acknowledge expats exist, choose fine words about how important we are, then express total ignorance and surprise about the problems we face.



cronos


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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 22:19

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Hector,



Unfortunately they realise that the gravy train is about to be derailed ,and the concerns of foreign buyers and ex-pats represent the law of diminishing returns.



Change will only come when the TC's shout loud enough about their collapsing economy,and when Turkey forces the change on its errant child.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 22:53

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Tenakoutou (mess 454) There will be no apology coming from me, I am sure HBPG are selfless, (please tell me what they have achieved in their monthly Pia Bella meetings)? and as for scurrilous (abusive, coarsely humorous) I have never been course or abusive in my life! just honest! I couldn't careless if you are an old poster to this forum I owe HBPG nothing!



Bradus (message 458/459) I knew many years ago a softly softly approach would never work, as always you know the goal posts!



Cronas (mess 460) Yes I agree outside the TRNC is the best way forward, as you say rightly for safety reasons



Pollymarples I have written and have had meetings with many MP's and MEP's they all say the same "Unrecognized Country" they can do nothing (been there got the bloody T Shirt) maybe you can do better!! I sincerely hope so!



WHAT THEY ALL HATE IS ANY DISRUPTION IN LONDON! THEY HATE BANNERS, AND THEY HATE THEIR BEAUTIFUL SQUARES TO LOOK UNTIDY!!



deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 22:56

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I like message 473, have a target which may bring action rather than a scattergun approach. Lord Maginnis, who I believe has property in TRNC and declares his interest recently took the UK government to task and made them admit that GC propaganda was false. Indeed his dog with a bone attitude has perhaps done much to get acknowledgement that TRNC should be looked at for direct trading. Is it worth a try to ask him if he is willing to accept a petition or request for him to take forward politically and/or in media ? He certainly would not be shy to make the position known to mainland Turkey. If for whatever reason he is precluded from giving asssistance I am sure he can point us in the right direction. There may be members who know more of him than I and can comment as to if there is any merit or not in this. Meantime, my plan B is pathetic. I can only think of "Jim will fix it". NB Believe Maginnis is a member of friends of North Cyprus or similar.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
21/08/2010 23:08

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Deputydawg,



Many many victims have already contacted Lord Maginnis ! "Good Luck" (de ja vue) once again! I must have been before my time! :-(



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 06:49

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Message 485 of 768 in Discussion

President

Dervis Eroglu

K.K.T.C. Basbakanlik

3, Selcuklu Sokak

Bakanliklar Yolu

Lefkosa

Mersin 10

Turkey



why is it we can all think of a dozen reasons NOT to do something ...........



Here is a reason to DO it - actions speak louder than words........



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 09:24

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Many thanks pollymarples (485),

Geoff



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 09:24

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Trncvictim





Did someone ever try to kill you and were you warned to leave the island for your own safety??



Therein lies the difference and the reason the MP's just might take more notice - the press definitely

would.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 09:51

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Message 488 of 768 in Discussion

I'm not sure if anyone has said this before but one of the reasons that the vast majority of property owners and also possibly the HBPG committee cannot support any action which would affect property prices may be because they are looking to sell up and move out! I'm not sure what the reasons are for the HBPG committee taking such a soft approach nowadays and it could quite understandably be that the government have pressured them into this position. If this is the case then currently there is nothing to stop the flood of auctions, blackmail demands (pay an extra £40k for your deeds) and evictions which are sure to come. To rephrase what should be our catchphrase, "NO KOCAN, NO HOME!"



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 10:40

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Prior to the Kulaksiz 5 auction, CY44 members were requested to write to the UK Press, and a comprehensive list was supplied.



One wonders just how many members did, in fact, write [enclosing the 'Cyprus Today' stories as 'attachments'], because, as far as I am aware, there was nil British Press, or TV, representation on the day of the auction.



How many members even had the basic courtesy of a reply?



Does TRNCvictim really think that writing to the President will do any good, apart from the possibility of the sender getting deported for criticising a TRNC government representative?



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 11:54

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msg 479



i agree with you this needs to be rammed home in Turkey and to anybody we can find that has the authority and power and guts to do something so far noone has but just becauses no one has before doesnt mean we should stop trying and maybe just maybe we will find that person. As you said its how.Yes I agree in writing to the president altough he is already aware but the pressure needs to continue and to try and find that person with the power .



TRNC victim : I must have been before my time: many people fighting battles have been before their time but still need to continue as eventually and hopefully time catches up and makes the battle worth fighting hopefully..



I think because of this particular incident with Pauline and the sinister turn it has taken has made it all the more worthwhile to fight.



Like msg 478 my title deeds problems are also peanuts compared to Pauline and co problems and it could have been me in that situation



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 12:00

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Tenakoutou (mess 489)I can't see where I said that writing to the President will do any good??



Pollymarples (mess 487) Yes by anonymous telephone call at work in the UK threatening that we would DIE unless we left a certain builder in the TRNC alone!!!! we called the UK Police, we have had subsequent anonymous calls, very threatening, at the moment it's quiet! I know it's not as awful as Pauline's experience, but none the less very frightening! however our reserve will not falter, we will carry on trying to get to the core of the corruption. In the last 7 years there have be many brick walls! some we have knocked down, and some seem impenetrable, but we won't give up, thats what the Government are waiting for us to do! they'll have an awful long wait!



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 12:14

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Is'nt there a Turkish 'Ambassador' already on the Island? Would that be the place to start? But then, if this is the case, then I am sure they are fully aware of the situation, but it might be worth a try to start to badger him instead!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 12:16

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Here is something to make you titter.



A WHILE BEFORE THE AUCTION PAULINE WAS APPROACHED BY TWO BROTHERS OF the

Director of Kulaksiz CONS. OFFERING HER PROTECTION BECAUSE IN THEIR WORDS,

AKFINANS WAS NOT A 'PROPER' BANK she did not take them seriously - she does now.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 12:17

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Message 494 of 768 in Discussion

The letter template is here http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/22/kulaksiz-5-letter-template-tell-your-mps-meps-and-local-newspapers/

If you want to turn it it into a PRESS RELEASE then just remove the letter specific section and add PRESS RELEASE at the top



Sugarpuffbear


Joined: 14/05/2010
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 15:14

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Message 495 of 768 in Discussion

I have read with great interest this whole story, The Akfinans Bank behaved despicably with their high interest rates and mafia type approach to solving the problem. I have asked myself why should their manager stoop as low as this. I then realised that both his own life and his family's might also be at risk which drove him to do something as bad as what he is doing to satisfy the bank's greed .

If we petition our local MPs in the UK, is this going to have an adverse effect on when and if they consider the TRNC as being a country fit for trading with the rest of the world. Will this not stregthen the ROC's hand .

I think the way forward is to write to all 50 TRNC Government representatives instead, I am not sure whether there is any services charter that would make them reply, in order to get them to bring pressure on the banks to stop interest being charged on mortgaged land that has already been sold which must be retrospective, back to the date of the sale registration.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 15:35

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Message 496 of 768 in Discussion

Sugarpuffbear - BEEN there, done that , got the cold shoulder. Whatever happens hereon in has been

brought on by the TRNC themselves. If you have read the story, the bank is family owned and the

Manager is the son - save your sympathy for the victims. If you read the template letter you will

see we are accusing the south too, so how is this strengthening their hand.



We all love the TRNC but they do not listen, perhaps they will listen to outside pressure just a pity

it has to come to this but desperate times need desperate measures.



The only solution the TRNC is interested in is the one where pensioners part with £55,000 and

if they havent got it, take a 20 year mortgage from AKFINANS, I am sure that at 87 Mike looks forward

to such a prospect.



Are you from embargoed??



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 16:03

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#495 "if they consider the TRNC as being a country fit for trading with the rest of the world. Will this not stregthen the ROC's hand"

if the TRNC was truly not fit then all it would have to do was make itself fit! Seems the sensible thing to do. Unfortunately I believe the governments (both north & south) see nothing wrong with allowing businesses to be able to freely rip off consumers. Probably not a good advert for trading with them, directly or indirectly.



Sugarpuffbear


Joined: 14/05/2010
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 17:07

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Message 498 of 768 in Discussion

Pollymarples - Sorry I did not realise the bank was family owned, I obviously missed that bit! Now I realise why Akfinans were running the show themselves and being so intent on profiteering for themselves.

The TRNC Government must step in and regulate the Banks operating in TRNC .

If you think UK MPs have any talks with the TRNC or through the UK Foreign Office then fine I go along with it.

And no I am not from Embargoed



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 17:34

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Sorry Sugarpuffbear, but feel a little protective of Pauline and Chris, fraud is bad enough, but attempting

to run someone over and virtually having to beg the Police to take a statement, is beyond the pail, stilll

no actiontaken against the driver............ really has this country grown up enough to join the big players?



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 17:51

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Message 500 of 768 in Discussion

Sugarpuffbear

'If we petition our local MPs in the UK, is this going to have an adverse effect on when and if they consider the TRNC as being a country fit for trading with the rest of the world. Will this not stregthen the ROC's hand . '



No ,what strenghens the ROC's hand ,is the actualite of what is going on , not the publisising of it.

I think the ROC would be delighted with the corruption not being tackled, it makes NC look like a banana republic while at the same time diverts attention from the corruption in the ROC.



Forgive me , but if you are new to the site ,allowing things to be kept in house and swept under the carpet has been justified in the past with similor reasons to yours, at its worst 2006-2008 and it didnt work. People who raised concerns were shouted down as being traitors,usually by people whose main objective was to ensure the problems were kept hidden long enough for these same patriots to sell to some naive Brit,and get the hell out.



Jwheeler&Sons


Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 141

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 17:55

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Message 501 of 768 in Discussion

AK Finance London. Google . It,s not rocket science.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 19:25

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Message 502 of 768 in Discussion

To be truthful I doubt very much if the British Government would ever intervene or discuss with the current TRNC Government the problems its citizens are experiencing. The TRNC is not recognised and we all knew this when we bought.



However what we should be doing is writing to the British Government and demanding that they change the information currently being given on their FCO site.Presently the warning is just about purchasing GC land and buying in an unrecognised state. What it should be warning buyers about is the memorandums, mortgages, title deeds, auctions and scams. They should also provide information regarding the lack of legal protection and duty of care from advocates. They should certainly not be recommending advocates on their site as this is misleading to prospective buyers and gives the impression its safe, as long as you go through these recommended advocates. We all know that this is untrue, advocates are as powerless as us because the law fails us all.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 19:31

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Message 503 of 768 in Discussion

Sad to say that the above will do little to help those caught up in the above. However it will help prevent this from happening to other innocent victims. It would also have an impact on the property industry and might encourage support from those employed in the construction industry to also demand changes to stimulate the market.



We should also do our best to work in partnership with the builders and advocates. They have as much to lose as us.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 19:50

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Message 504 of 768 in Discussion

Bradus I agree . At the moment as you say the info from the british government is just about the land situation and not as you say all the other aspects and as you also quite rightly say not recommending advocates who cannot if they want to ,seem to do anything under this climate.



Do you think that as some sort of a pressure group we could attempt this or could the HBPG have an input



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 20:15

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Message 505 of 768 in Discussion

I would love to see the HBPG get involved but I'm not sure they would think it appropriate.

My other suggestion would be to select one well known MP and for everyone that wishes to participate, to target this particular one. I have already written to Nick Clegg about how the FCO site is failing to identify the problems that exist and may well be responsible for British citizens becoming homeless. It certainly wouldn't hurt for others to do so too.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 21:52

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Message 506 of 768 in Discussion

TRNCvictim/Msg 491:



I'm very sorry for attributing that to you.



As another victim of all this TRNC skulduggery, you have my sincere sympathy.



There simply seems no legal redress here - I should know after losing half our life savings as a result their 'kangaroo' court system.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 22:03

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Message 507 of 768 in Discussion

Tenakoutou (mess 506)



Thank you! and your right there is no legal redress, we all have to keep working for the same end! they will not frighten me any more!



X



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
22/08/2010 23:12

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Message 508 of 768 in Discussion

TRNC victim



Are you an AGA victim?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 06:48

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Message 509 of 768 in Discussion

As for writing to MP's and local newpapapers, yes, they may want to ignore you, but copying in the local

press just MIGHT make them think twice - if at first you don't suceed, try, try try again. When you have

nothing to loose - what else is there ??



By the way Pauline's computer is under attack.......wonder who from.......the car didn't suceed!



If you dont hear from me. cos obviously I use her computer, you will know why.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 07:47

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Message 510 of 768 in Discussion

(1/3) Daniel Hannan MEP asked the question below in the European Parliament about the RoC

"A number of constituents have contacted me regarding the property laws of Cyprus. My constituents are among thousands of UK citizens who fear they have bought properties in the country and risk losing their homes.

My constituents are concerned that the Cypriot Government is not following EU and UN Charters on the protection of property rights by allowing property developers to retain title deeds to the properties. My constituents inform me that these developers can use deeds as collateral to obtain mortgages and if developers go bankrupt, buyers, who have already paid in full, can lose their homes. Some of my constituents tell me that they have been waiting seven years for the title deed to their property."



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 07:49

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Message 511 of 768 in Discussion

(2/3) "My constituents inform me that it is the situation in Cyprus that deeds do not come automatically. They tell me that there can be many problems such as mortgages on the land, antiquated property laws and builds without permits. My constituents add that buyers are fooled by claims that the Cypriot legal system, with regard to property law, is based on British law and that this is not the case.

I would like to ask the Commission if Cyprus, by allowing developers to retain title deeds even after full payment, is acting in accordance with EU/UN Charters and its own Constitution (Article 23) regarding property rights.

Does the Commission have any plans to take action against the Cypriot Government? If so, what action does it plan to take?"

Answer

"The Commission cannot make an assessment of the situation based on the information included in the question."

In the end it turned out that it was up to the RoC if they want to allow builders to rip off EU citizens.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 08:47

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Message 512 of 768 in Discussion

That seems to give both TRNC and RoC 'carte blanche' to carry on with all this subterfuge and skulduggery.



From where is the incentive, or threat, NOT to con foreigners into buying, and then reclaim the property by devious means?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 08:55

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We seem to get nowhere complaining to the MEPs about the TRNC but if the focus is on ALL Cyprus then they have to listen. I think pushing for a warning on the Foreign & Commonwealth Office website and then, if that succeeds, getting this change reported in UK newspapers has to be the way to go.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 09:00

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Message 514 of 768 in Discussion

Oops,just discovered the property warning hidden away on the page:

"Both Cypriot and foreign owners of around 100,000 properties have not been able to obtain their title deeds. Some people have been trying to obtain them for over 30 years. There are many cases of people without title deeds finding it difficult to sell their property, or whose developer has imposed a sales fee, high property taxes or service charges. As developers are able to take out mortgages on property for which they hold the title deeds, there is also a risk that a developer could go bankrupt with an outstanding mortgage on the property, rendering it liable to repossession by the mortgage holder."

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/cyprus



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 09:30

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Message 515 of 768 in Discussion

Yes,



it appears to have been updated this month, which is very good news and shows that the government are aware of all the existing problems and have acted on the request for it to be updated to give buyers a more accurate account of buying in Cyprus.



And I thought i was wasting my time! What is the next step forward?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 09:40

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Message 516 of 768 in Discussion

the FCO statement is justification for a NO KOCAN, NO MONEY! campaign, which covers future buyers. I believe the government are trying to buy time with a temporary kocan but I'd only pay temporary money for that.

But what about those already caught, both north and south? I believe that if it can be shown that the mortgage was not used for operating expenses, for example, then any building company taking out a loan, making no repayments from the start and then spending the money recklessly could be shown to be deliberately defrauding buyers. Can anyone think of a case where this might apply?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 09:43

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Message 517 of 768 in Discussion

Make the world and his wife aware - SHAME CYPRUS - make them aware - the tables are about to be turned

On them.................SHOUT LOUD AND LONG. Start with the letter to your MP COPIED to the local rag

THE COPY TO THE NEWPAPER IS THE IMPORTANT PART but it is also putting your MP on notice



WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 09:57

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Message 518 of 768 in Discussion

We know that help is not coming from the EU but LOOK at the penultimate paragraph on the template

letter the MP's can and should lobby the Turkish Government, they set up the IPC, so they proved they

are interested in solving the property problems, perhaps they could find a way to incorporate these and

other property related problems under the same unmbrella or create a new unmbrella.



Now is the time to the pressure on.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 11:33

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Message 519 of 768 in Discussion

Everyone.................



If I organized another peaceful demonstration in London outside the TRNC Offices, and then we all moved on to the Turkish Embassy sometime in October, how many of you who would be in the UK at that time would be willing to join us?



I emphasize "Peaceful" (they have all been in the past)! and hopefully it will not be to cold in October!



It matters not a jot what your grievance with the TRNC is, but we can all show a united front!



I can guarantee neither establishment will like it, but obviously the more of us the more Impact it will make, I know it is financially unviable for those of you living in the TRNC, but maybe you have family or friends who would stand in to increase numbers? one thing is for certain it would get some press coverage!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 11:53

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I wonder if this could be an All Cyprus demonstration so that property groups in the south could join in. With 30,000+ people in the south with mortgages on fully paid for properties a demonstration would more impact. I thought the LibTor government had banned city demos?



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 11:59

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malsancak message 520



They haven't banned them to my knowledge, but I will definately find out



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 12:02

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Message 522 of 768 in Discussion

malsancak



I agree that there maybe more impact if the south could join in with any of the ongoing problems then it shows its the whole of cyprus and not just a TRNC problem that they can shrugg of as its not recognised.



I am quite sure that the governments will not like it but will at first just see it as a little bit of a problem that will go away but it would be up to the pressure group to make sure it doesnt.



May be time to start a cyprus (forget the divide) property pressure group. Only a suggestion and not sure how we can organise it.



everything could then be under the one umbrella and try and keep politics out of it and keep to the aim and intention of the fraud and corruption that is allowed to continue after all what is happening is major fraud.



DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 12:06

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Malcolm is spot on an all Cyprus demo could attract world attention.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 12:29

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Message 524 of 768 in Discussion

Malcolm,



We spoke to CPAG a couple of years ago, they told us that they had enough problems of their own, and were moving forward within the EU albeit slowly, and they didn't want to take on board the added problems that the North had!



Things maybe different now, perhaps someone could E Mail them again, and see what reaction we get now?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 12:35

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Message 525 of 768 in Discussion

apologies, the protest ban was for a specific circumstance!



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 12:39

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Message 526 of 768 in Discussion

TRNC victim



sorry excuse my ignorance what does CPAG stand for having a blonde day!



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 12:45

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honestie (mess 526)



Cyprus Property Action Group (it's an action group covering the South of the Island)



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 14:39

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Write to all your MEPs http://www.writetothem.com/



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 14:39

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Good idea MALCOLM - write your letters too. Just had acknowledgement of one of mine to Nick Clegg deputy prime minster - it's a start.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 16:01

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wasn't my idea it was Thunderbox's on NCFP!



100672


Joined: 17/06/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 18:56

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Have just sent off my letter to MEPs - sorry won't be in UK in October, or would join your proposed demo. However, will be in Cyprus, working on local TRNC friends who have any kind of influence to see if we can't get this ridiculous situation resolved. Suggest we should also be lobbying the TRNC judicial system - many advocates trained in UK or Turkey and profess to be proud of their respect for the law.... Also, can any sympathetic Turkish-speaking friends get publicity in Turkey? Pointing out that Turkey's reputation as a civilised country is also being tarnished here.....

I think the UK will be useless in helping with this.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 20:33

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UK MEPs have to take notice but apart from newspapers, if there is a juicy story, no one else would care what happened here.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 20:57

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Message 533 of 768 in Discussion

QUOTE:

The homeowners’ decision to take legal action in Britain came after a member of the House of Lords called for the closure of all Cypriot real estate offices in Britain and a ban on any Cypriot property companies participating in U.K. trade shows.



During a debate last month, Nigel David Jones also called on the British government to “work with other European countries to urge the government of Cyprus to prosecute individuals who have retained title deeds after completion of property sales to U.K. or other E.U. citizens.”



Very topical in Parliament at the moment.........now is the time to tell your story! Name your developer and ask that they be prevented from participating in all UK trade shows. For those that bought from TC's with English Passports name and shame them and in particularly if anyone bought through an English agent or company inform your MP.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 21:05

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Message 534 of 768 in Discussion

malsancak



UK MEPs try to take notice and some have tried to help! but the bottom line always is, and I Quote

"TRNC is Unrecognized" none can seem to get passed that quotation!! hopefully you will all do better!



As for the newspapers, your so right a juicy story is what they want, hopefully Pauline's will be juicy enough, other than that no-one cares a toss about the TRNC! or any of it's victims within! we all should have listened to the FCO, even though the FCO said nothing in 2003!!! so we can all (I will put it nicely) Go away!



ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
23/08/2010 21:17

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Message 535 of 768 in Discussion

I have been looking at this thread and apologise for repeating things (but its such a long thread!)



I was under the impression what my builder was trying to do by offering us land for an extra £20-£25k was unique but studying the whole thread I find out its not as another builder is quoting £31K for Deeds



This appears to be a scam to get more money out from us homeowners in order to get deeds and to be honest I am very dissapointed.



The Government HAS GOT TO DO SOMETHING otherwise this will spiral out of control and any respectable business and builder will all be tainted with the same brush.



Sorry if I sound so obvious, also read about the problems in the South and appears that EU Laws and Regulations are not being followed there- so what chance of anything here!!

I have spoken to a QC in Scotland and he is writing to the Chief Justice of Scotland to inform the UK Government of our plight, so who knows maybe Turkey might take more of an interest!



malsancak


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Message Posted:
24/08/2010 08:57

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I think we need to repeat the same thing 100s of times before people realise that ancient legalities we automatically expect in the UK, e.g. "duty of care" and "duty of trust", seem to have not yet fully established themselves here. More at http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/24/kulaksiz-5-is-there-no-legal-duty-of-trust-in-the-trnc/



Geoff


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Message Posted:
24/08/2010 09:00

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I think in any letters to MEPs, MPs, EU, etc it might be worth mentioning our property problems are similr to the Spanish land-grabs??

Geoff



malsancak


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Message Posted:
24/08/2010 09:06

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or just include us in anything the EU decides to do to the south where the same practices are prevalent.



Tenakoutou



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Message Posted:
24/08/2010 09:48

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Please read my messages *44-48 on the topic ' Why the Hell should Turkey pay compensation to the Greek Cypriots...?'



I, respectfully, invite and request your comments on *these, as they are so closely allied to the subject of this thread.



malsancak


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Message Posted:
24/08/2010 15:29

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What is amazing is that a recent Daily Telegraph article can point people to Cyprus estate agents, including in Kyrenia, and give no clue that there are FCO warnings about buying in north and south Cyprus.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/expatproperty/7960509/The-Cyprus-property-dream.html



100672


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 00:10

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Re my message 531 - response from the only one of 5 MEPs I wrote to who is at work..... "The EU exists to try to solve cross-border problems - but property does not cross borders so therefore all laws about property are national and are not EU/cross-border. There is nobody in Brussels who has any say about property or title-deeds. Anybody who buys property in Turkish-occupied north Cyprus automatically accepts the risk that local laws and methods will apply until they are changed. The EU is working continuously to help resolve the north/south Cyprus problem, as you know. But the solution depends on the building of mutual confidence between Athens and Ankara and that it is taking a long time, as you must also know. With that mutual suspicion remaining, there is no way that a message from me will "shame" anybody into changing their practices." Good case of sloping shoulders and lack of concern - on our own, I think.....



malsancak


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 08:24

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100672, your posts confirms what I've believed all along - the EU is not concerned about north Cyprus. If the letter had focused on Cyprus as a whole then they would have to deal with your concern differently.



Geoff


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25/08/2010 08:40

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Well the EU may not be concerned about north Cyprus, but they should be in the context of Turkey's application to join the EU and the re-unification (another flying pig) talks. If the talks fail it will be the fault of the GCs and their church (who call the shots over there).

Geoff



malsancak


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 08:57

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When MEP Daniel Hannan posed the property question to the European Parliament, but only about the south, after two years he was told much the same as above - "all laws about property are national." Even though the EU are not happy about the mortgage situation they seem to be hinting that there isn't much they can do about it in the short term. What does that tell you about the EU.

In terms of Pauline's campaign I believe we have to warn property buyers on the whole of Cyprus about this issue and not look to any government to help save them from potential financial disaster.



Tenakoutou



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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 10:34

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I know, damn well, that I was being mocked by the Euro MP when he told me to take my grievance to their GC appointed representative in Nicosia!



Obviously, as far a the whole of Cyprus goes, EU member buyers are all in a 'cleft stick' - completely at the mercy of the local laws, or lack of them!



If Bruxelles is incapable of co-ordinating and enforcing standard legal procedure within member states, then perhaps this top-heavy, 'jobs for the boys' club, called the 'European Union', should be disbanded and terminated [for all the use it is] ASAP!



DeaconB


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25/08/2010 13:20

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I have had no positive replies from a number of MEPs yet, I know that it is holiday time so they have the benefit of the doubt for a couple of weeks but I shall make formal complaints about those who fail to respond. Never asked anything from them before but for what their gravy train costs me I expect and will have a response.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 14:33

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Well I have had acknowledgements from Uk MP's but lots on hols



Working my way thru cabinet.



100672


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25/08/2010 15:49

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Malsancak re msg 542 - message to MEPs was: If you are not already aware, please take note of the desperation of law-abiding Brits living in both North & South Cyprus (clearly no advantage to being a EU member there then) who are in danger of losing their homes due to not being able to obtain their title deeds. This has given rise in some cases to them having their homes repossessed because banks illegally (or at least immorally) give builders and developers loans against properties already sold to the home owner. Cyprus law is supposed to be based on UK law- as a MP would you let this happen to your constituents in the UK? What you can do is make the problems well-publicised so that the government of Republic of Cyprus and both Turkey and the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus are shamed into taking some action. Check out the North Cyprus Free Press,and even sympathetic articles written by local Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus Today re the Kulakzis 5 victims. Your help is desperatelyneeded.



malsancak


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 16:06

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100672, you couldn't have put it clearer than that! Looks like the European lawmakers can't enforce even the most. basic EU laws, too busy taking the ride on that gravy train.



honestie


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 18:06

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so far sent my emails and to foreign office . Have aimed it at a corrupt and fraudulant property scam by the very nature of the fraud that is involved in obtaining monies for these properties. It has even been told to me by solicitors that the actions are criminal however it seems the police will not take action against their own.



Althought this is at the moment just a minor thorn in the side of both governments it will be turning into a major one which will not go away and will esculate to being another part of the land issues of a differant nature.



awaiting replies !!!



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 18:50

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Now folks, just look at what a teller of porkie pies Akkfinans Advocates turn out to be PAULINE sent me

sleuthing again, look what I found .............latest story on North Cyprus Free Press.....remember, you

read it there first.



Bradus


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 21:28

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Why not post on the Telegraph article mentioned in post 540? Why do we allow untruths to be told? Come on!



We wanted to get publicity and this is an ideal venue to inform the readers exactly what is happening in Cyprus and why should not consider buying there.



Who knows they might ask for the full story.



TRNCvictim


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 22:00

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Bradus (mess 552)



Completely agree, already done!



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 22:16

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WELL DONE TRNC VICTIM You could also tell them what liars the fatherless Advocates can be too.



honestie


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 22:55

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bradus



posted on it but hasnt shown up yet does it take some time for the postings to go on



Bradus


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Message Posted:
25/08/2010 23:03

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Mine went on straight after, but I can't see TRNC Victims despite having several attempts. Obviously Pollymarples can.



Hope it appears soon.



TRNCvictim


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26/08/2010

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Bradus (Mess 556)



Well I certainly put it on there! If it isn't on tomorrow morning I will put it on again!



The best I can do, I assumed it took a little while?



Obviously I'm not as quick as you Bradus!



cronos


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Message Posted:
26/08/2010 00:02

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TRNCvictim......maybe they are being vetted before deciding whether to print ?



Just how vociferous was your post?



honestie


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Message Posted:
26/08/2010 00:11

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well mine wasnt on either so we shall see tomorrow



cronos


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Message Posted:
26/08/2010 10:12

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Slightly off topic but maybe the extradition of Asil Nadir makes this an excellent opportunity to lobby the UK media about the issues on here?



I would say that most people in the UK neither know nor care about North Cyprus and the property scandals,but

with Mr Nadir's story now taken centre stage in the media,along with the topics of TRNC...fraud....corruption..etc, now might be a good time to alert the press to the plight of the Kulaksiz 5 and numerous others,and the dicriminatory and ineffective legal system in general.



cronos


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26/08/2010 10:29

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Sorry..I said "extradition" when of course I meant his "decision to return" ! ;)



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
26/08/2010 11:01

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Bradus and TRNC vic. both on there, 2 from you Bradus.



Now lets talk about WCS's It would be fair to say that Akfinans's esteemed Advocates do have W.C.'s

how else could they urinate? It is also the ideal place to hang ones diplomas and possibly Pauline's

photo, oh no that is probably on the DART BOARD



DeaconB


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Message Posted:
26/08/2010 14:18

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Hope Nadir gets to share a cell with Gary Robb, both innocent and persecuted by a corrupt British legal system, or what?



DeaconB


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Message Posted:
26/08/2010 20:13

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Nasil's return is front page news with bags of TV time in the UK. It would be a very good time to arrange a protest to coincide with the courts case. He appears very confident that a Conservative Government will ensure him justice.



TRNCvictim


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Message Posted:
26/08/2010 22:28

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DeaconB (mess 563/564)





"Or What comes to my mind"!! Yes he does seem confident that the Coalition Government will help him out! we will have to see?



It's really funny he didn't want to come back before? 17 years is a very long time!



And yes I agree that a "PROTEST" to coincide with his court case could be productive, it depends how many victims are prepared to stand their ground, as David (cyprusishome) has said in the past will it just be the same old faithful? probably, well I have been there before, and the sad victims who can't be bothered to get off their backsides, or think that a "PROTEST" is beneath them, deserve everything they get? and in future should just fight for themselves! or carry on cow towing to a Government who IS NOT interested, it's only by being counted that any of us can win, being united whatever our grievance is the only way forward.



malsancak


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 07:59

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Trouble with trying to coincide a protest with the Nadir court case is they within a few weeks he'll be old news. It is difficult to decide what to protest about, e.g. "TRNC is a bad place to buy property" will be quickly countered with a statement saying that legislation has now been introduced which will prevent the problem ever happening again PLUS they'll say that it is NOW safer to buy here than it is in the south and some other EU countries.



Geoff


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 08:12

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Re 566: Safer don't mean safe!

Geoff



negativenick


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 09:01

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i'm glad to be part of the longest thread in CY44 history.......................................



malsancak


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 11:01

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negnick, we're going for 1000 posts and 20,000 views and then we'll invite Guinness Book of Records to authenticate us, as long as we mostly manage to keep to the Kulaksiz 5/mortgaged and auctioned property issue



DeaconB


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 14:16

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Publishing all if any replies from MPs/MEPs/ and or others should boost numbers.



apc2010


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 14:21

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using asil nadir for publicity could be a two edged sword, seeing he has been a "fugitive" in n/c , you may lose sympathy,, just an opinion ....



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 15:44

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Well fancy Talat Kursat inviting Pauline to look at at ISO 9001 Certificate, she can look at it

on the internet, couldnt be counterfeit could it, when the WCS deny all knowledge of them in

writing?????



Too many busy roads down there for my liking, she doesn t pay me enough to let her take

those sort of risks and I wont let her go alone.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 16:06

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PollyM do you think that come and look at my certificates might be a euphemism for something



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 16:32

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Well, I've seen a few etchings in my time - Pauline can be a bit gullible, 'talk about innocents abroad'



100672


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 20:05

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Re Msg 549: Further details from MEP..... "I realise now that you do not understand the EU.

EU laws only cover cross-border situations. Otherwise local and national laws apply. Full stop.

The EU is of enormous benefit for resolving cross-border problems. We all benefit from it in many different ways. The EU does not have any involvement in domestic problems - because the UK and other member states wish to keep their own laws. So, as I said, there are no EU property laws, and no EU powers to enforce laws inside Cyprus. The UK and Cyprus have their own national laws and their own courts and courts of appeal. Unlike the USA, where the federal government can intervene in local situations, Brussels cannot intervene and it has no FBI or euro-army or euro-prisons to pressurise badly-behaving Cypriots." "... do you really want Brussels interference in UK or Cyprus.." Hmmmm - maybe not, when you put it like that!



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 20:15

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No we do not, but a little lobbying Turkey would not go amiss - since Turkey seems hell bent on joining

their club!! Turkey could turn this situation around with the right incentive.



cronos


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27/08/2010 20:21

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Turkey should remember that they are the "T" in the TRNC and the world knows this.



Therefore by association they are complicit in and responsible for all the corruption and fraud within the TRNC property market.



If they wanted things to be resolved,then as the paymasters they could instigate change very quickly.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 20:27

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So, 'cronos', one wonders what Turkey's agenda of 'turning a blind eye' REALLY is?



natalie


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Message Posted:
27/08/2010 21:36

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As I stated before, our only hope is to lobby Turkey starting with their rep right here in the TRNC. Nobody else gives a god damn



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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27/08/2010 22:05

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natalie can you send me an email so I can reply to you if thats ok



honestie



TRNCvictim


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Message Posted:
28/08/2010 10:41

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apc2010 (mess 571)



Whilst I understand exactly what you mean by a two edged sword, I somehow think that not only the UK press but also the TRNC/Turkey media will be watching Adir's trial extremely closely, he's front page news at the moment, what better time to demonstrate against the corruption of a Government that has harboured him for 17 years! a Government who allows elderly British ex pats to be evicted from the homes they have bought and paid for! and allows unscrupulous Advocates to break into their homes, and attempt to run someone over, and do absolutely nothing in response!



pollymarples


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28/08/2010 18:36

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Not strictly speaking true to say anyone has been legally evicted YET, Paulines breaking and entering by the advocate, bank manager and locksmith was illegal, that is a fact. We have given statements to the Police' witness too, and have asked that they be prosecuted, attempted murder ranks as pretty serious anywhere

but here - time will tell.



TRNCvictim


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28/08/2010 20:45

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pollymarples (mess 582)



Sorry I got it wrong! re the eviction, so have you not heard yet if the "advocate, bank manager and locksmith" are going to be prosecuted? and I agree attempted murder is a serious crime, in most Country's surely you would have heard something by now?



but agree in the TRNC!!! who knows?



Please tell Pauline I am thinking of her



pollymarples


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29/08/2010 08:04

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No havent heard a thing from the Police - they were rather busy this week all those naughty London

Turkish Cyps caught gambling, got to get your priorities right..





TRNC vic Pauline has a little article on the subject - should be on NORTH CYPRUS FREE PRESS

shortly



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
29/08/2010 09:46

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article is here http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/08/29/nanny-state/



malsancak


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Message Posted:
29/08/2010 17:18

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Good news PollyM, there is a meeting arranged by the HBPG which might sort out Kulaksiz 5's problems:

"Construction Association President Soner Yetkili will speak at a general HBPG meeting in the Pia Bella Hotel on Tuesday the 14th September 2010 starting at 12 noon. If you are experiencing any problems with your construction company you should come along and listen to proposals for possibly finding a solution for you." http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/diary.html

This might be a new way forward for the 1000s about to have their homes auctioned. I can't wait to hear what he has to say, I only wish HBPG could release the information earlier in order to put these people out of their misery.



john_good


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Message Posted:
29/08/2010 17:42

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buyers pay outstanding cash into a government supervised account and work ewill be done ?? however how will they force land owners to hand over kochans ???



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
29/08/2010 17:55

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Yippee do. Soner Yetikli promised us help on ADA T.V. and indeed did hold a meeting, we furnished him

with lots of information - Kulaksiz was taken to task - how did this help us??? You guessed not at all.



Forgive me if i DONTget excited - been here before. It will make no difference to those with illegal

mortgages on their homes. Trust Pauline, she does know.



TRNCvictim


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30/08/2010 00:29

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I know pollymarples, but maybe Soner Yetikli and ADA T.V. and their meeting with all your information will achieve something!!" hopefully"



I do understand why your not excited, I have also been there before! whatever your problem with the TRNC Government they will continue to stick their heads in the sand and then "hopefully" we will all GO AWAY!



And if we all GO AWAY they will then have to answer to NO-ONE, and everyone in the TRNC will be happy bunnies!! and the I'm Alright Jacks will have nothing to worry about for at least another 12 months!



After that who gives a hoot!



The circle of rubbish will begin again with new recruits, who believe in ...... what ....... the next circle..... and the next...... until the TRNC Government ends up it's own...................................



One thing I do know Pollymarples the "I'm Alright Jacks" are getting smaller! and smaller!



Tell Pauline & Chris to keep strong! it's a bloody long road!



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
30/08/2010 04:11

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They know, they have been on it for four years and three months so far, just beginners really - pity

we dont all come with USE BY dates stamped on our bums, then we could work out if we are likely to

live long enough to see an end to it all.



I am sure a lot of people would go away if they could afford to or had somewhere to go. Don't you

just love the 'smug' barstewards who say 'if you don't like it - leave. Chance would be a fine thing.



Pauline and Chris however are going nowhere, despite Akfinans's best efforts, they train everyday

in the little known art of 'dodge the car' and if it becomes an Olympic sport are in with a chance

of a Gold Medal.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
30/08/2010 12:52

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'fact finding mission' proposed by Daniel Hannan MEP to look into the property issue in the ROC has been

rejected by the EU.



Surprise, surprise, another can of worms with the lid kept firmly shut.



cronos


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Message Posted:
30/08/2010 12:55

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Unfortunately,any British victim of the property scandals in TRNC who thinks that the UK govt or the EU will be able to resolve their problems and overturn the injustice is in for a very rude awakening.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
30/08/2010 13:49

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No-one ever thought that. Be nice if someone cared, if only a little.



cronos


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30/08/2010 13:52

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Polly....there are plenty on here that do care.



What I can't be doing with is those that won't offer support,or even actually blame the victims for their predicament.......just because they themselves haven't had any problems....YET !



nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
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Message Posted:
30/08/2010 17:47

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Does anyone know if there are further auctions planned or evictions? Has any other bank (other than Akfinans) gone down this route? Is there a storm brewing quietly in the background?



Hector


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Message Posted:
30/08/2010 19:20

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It's almost certain.



TRNCvictim


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Message Posted:
30/08/2010 23:22

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nareik



I certainly know that Amaranta Valley is to be auctioned, my advocate informed me, needless to say after I told him I had heard, he then confirmed that yes at a date to be confirmed, I don't know who the bank is, but I know that Akan Kursat was a director of Aga, and that his father Talat Kursat took one of my payments!



And yes there may well be a storm brewing! I should get a good umbrella!



pollymarples


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31/08/2010 02:49

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Do you realise that yesterday marked one month passing since a bank manager, an advocate and a locksmith

broke into MY villa and changed my locks; one month since a bank manager and an advocate drove a car

at speed at Chris causing him to jump out of the way to avoid injury or worse. What have the police done -

you got it - sweet f.a.



We all know Akan Kursat is a disgrace to the legal profession, yet the bar takes no action against him, so

what does that make them ? Talat Kursat took one of your payments TRNC victim - well they say

the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!!



You can be sure that whenever and wherever there is an auction, Pauline will be there running around with

her camera and notepad, hotly pursued by the secret service and getting up as many noses as is humanly

possible. All will be reported on North Cyorus Free Press.



nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 113

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 16:30

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Well done Pauline. That's wonderful spirit that you have. It's such a pity that that spirit is lacking in so many of your fellow expats.

Keep doing what you are doing and speaking out against the injustice (towards expats and local TC's) of the TRNC Government in not facing up to the very real problems and appalling property situation. And by their inaction, being complicit.



Nareik.



apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 16:37

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again although repeating myself , try opening a website with these titles you will get much more publicity and affect the builder/ govern. maybe then they will listen..........



on the website idea check out this site................







https://secure2.uk2.net/domains?domain=trnc&x=14&y=14



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 16:46

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apc2010:

here is one that is not taken:

http://whois.domaintools.com/trncproperty.info



Good luck!



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 17:50

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Message 602 of 768 in Discussion

am I correct in thinking that you can get a website and somehow make sure it gets into the first page when its googled?



good idea as anyone googling to find properties to buy could find that one first and maybe more impact



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 18:10

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or write an article for NCFP and the title get you to the top of Google, for example Googling Akan Kursat or Talat Kursat gets you their NCFP articles by Pauline Read



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
31/08/2010 19:53

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Hi Guys,



Pauline would love to do as you say but frankly she is a Ludite and writing for North Cyprus Free Press

with Malcolm's support and back up ois abpout the limit of her expertise. She vowed never to own

a lap top but unfortunately events in the shape of Kulaksiz, Abdurrahman Guney , Yuksel Yilmaz and

Akfinans put paid to that resolve. She is committed to Kulaksiz 5 and writing a book. She also has

unfinished business in the courts.



Who knows, if the day ever comes when she if finished with this.............



apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
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Message Posted:
31/08/2010 20:01

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msg 603 , true but if you are looking for property who knows these names ???(kursat)..nobody , but if you own, say" trnc property" website you could influence people who are looking to buy,, trust me then the government will listen ...if everyone who has had problems puts the "website" as their home page , it will be top in no time....

i am sure pauline would find help amongst the other unhappy buyers........



ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
31/08/2010 22:03

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Message 606 of 768 in Discussion

Just watching CNN and see that they are asking for stories on http://www.cnn.com/impact. Maybe worth a try.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 00:21

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There is already a very good TRNC Propery victim website out there just google Aga Buyers Action Group, it's been out there for many years!



It has been very well read, and will continue until the TRNC Government acknowledge their failings!



The Kursats are on there along with their counterparts, it is now very lengthy, but is definately doing it's job!



apc2010 "trust me then the Government will listen" This Government listens to no one! believe me!



apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 00:28

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my point was who knows what aga is ? ... somebody who is interested in buying in n/c will google either trnc property or n/cyprus property , if you get a website that attracts/puts off buyers they may take notice , or one similar to the government ........



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 00:38

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that was the point I was trying to make . If anyone is looking for property they google it and if a site came up at the top that when they went into it the aga victims and kulaksiz victims etc and the warnings maybe it would have more impact.



as mesg 608 says you have to know about the aga victims etc in the first place



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 01:09

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cant this kursat bloke be taken to the law society in UK, that's where they trained and got their qualifications, allegedly. Is it really true amaranta is being auctioned. God im geting repitive strain injury reading all this but such heartache for us all. Or the bar council in uk, could be a start



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 08:07

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Message 611 of 768 in Discussion

Hi Lilli



Right on the button, still waiting to hear if he is, as he claims, a member of the English bar.

Will keep you posted. Shall we lay odds.





Is it me or does it feel like typing thru treacle on this thread for everyone?



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 09:41

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apc2010:



The content of your postings is quite correct!



May I add that, fortunately for Cyprus, the 'impulse buying - it can't happen to me' brigade are the biggest percentage of buyers, and it's doubtful whether that will ever change, whether it's here, Florida, or Timbuktu!



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 11:07

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Pollymarples



This is a copy of the letter the Law Society sent to us, re Talat Kursat being a member of the English Bar









http://latchfords.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AED4FE7679CA3C33!2525.entry



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 17:25

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Thanks TRNC victim. I am still waiting for my reply from the Bar Council of England and Wales and

THe Cyprus Republic Bar. Pauline has written a little something for North Cyprus Free Press on the

strength of the e mail ABAG published in comments on the ISO9001 article.



Now should I investigate the claim to be members of the TRNC Bar??



I hope they dont put a Contract out on Pauline - it would be curtains for me too......



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 20:43

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PollyM, I wouldn't worry too much about a contract, no one takes any notice of them



100672


Joined: 17/06/2009
Posts: 33

Message Posted:
01/09/2010 21:20

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A little glimmer of hope from the second MEP to reply to my message (msg 548 refers)

"Thank you for your email. Sadly, we are aware of such abuses happening in Cyprus. I will write to the European Commission expressing your concerns and when I receive an answer I will get back to you.

Best wishes,

Emma

Miss Emma McClarkin MEP"

Yet to hear from 3 more MEPs.....



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 21:35

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The EU has stated that member states are entitled to make their own rules/laws re property - so, they've wriggled out of their responsibilities on that one.



But, what if those referred to property rules/laws also violate the EU/UN code of Human Rights - surely, then the EU should be obliged by their own charter to act in such cases?



Kulaksiz 5 and the Akfinans Bank scandal are glaring examples where the EU should insist on the TRNC government paying compensation to these victims, or face funding aid being suspended until such time that the TRNC government amend their laws to respect the Human Rights of both foreigners and Turkish Cypriots, alike.



apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 21:41

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msg 617 , the eu agreed that g/cs human rights were/are being violated , and you are right , then they referred them to the IPC, they did not want to get involved.....



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 21:47

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pollymarples



As malsancak said don't worry to much about a contract "They are not worth the paper they are written on"



I would have been long gone by now! so many threats!!!!!!, I know it's easy for me in the UK, and not so easy for you and Pauline, but freedom of speech and telling it exactly like it is, is very important!



Keep the faith, keep chipping away, even though I know how hard it can become!



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 21:50

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John,

message 617.



I agree with your post. The way forward will come from outside the TRNC. A case like the K5 auction threat or Wyn's

should be taken before the ECHR's to see if any sort of precedent can be set.



The EU laws that have been broken are numerous.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 21:54

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Bradus,



My understanding, is a precedent will be set by The President of The TRNC High Court.



Time will tell.



wyn



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
01/09/2010 22:10

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I certainly hope so. But lets keep all options, for all problems open.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 02:54

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Pauline will keep the faith, you can take that to the Bank but not Akfinans. By now she should have their

Advocates foaming at the mouth and hopefully their credibility being questioned at the highest level,

she is a great forwarder of copies of everything she writes!!



Pauline believes by being so vocal she is ensuring her safety. She hopes she is right. Her biggest

regret and conversely her greatest spur was the attack on her villa and Chris. These idiots do not

realise what we Anglo/American Red Indians are capable of: where's my war bonnet??



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 09:05

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30 years in computers and I didn't realise that I could change my profile so that the last message comes first!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 12:25

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Well as we all now expected the Kursat boys ARE NOT MEMBERS of the Cyprus bar either.



You check this yourself ...google Cyprus Bar and trawl thru the membership - they arent there.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 16:16

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pollymarples



would you ask Pauline if she would like some kind of a banner about Akfinans Bank & the plight of Kulaksiz 5 at the Protest in London, or if she would like us to give either the TRNC Office's or the Turkish Embassy a detailed letter of your predicament, and how you have all been treated, I'm certain the London Turkish Press will be there (they always have before) we could give them a statement from you?



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 17:00

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Pollymarples



This information relates to the South only - they would never acknowledge the existence of their "learned friends" in the north!!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 17:11

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Molly, then why have a Kyrenia section?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 19:25

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Molly all you have to do is google Cyprus Bar and you will see for yourself there is a Kyrenia district.

Using your logic why claim membership of the Cyprus Republic Bar http://www.talatkursat.com click on

Memberships? Not an attempt to misrepresent their status, surely??



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 21:08

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Message 630 of 768 in Discussion

Can we not organise a parellel silent protest in conjunction with AGBAG's ignore the offices of the UBP, surely someone must know the offices of the Turkish ambassador here. We do as another poster suggested, need to hit the engine driver, the monkey or monkies are so well 'greased' well say no more!



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 21:42

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Natalie



That would be so good!! how about a silent candlelit vigil, at the Turkish Ambassador's Office, from all the victims in the TRNC? to coincide, with the end of our protest in the UK! you are 2 hours behind us, so would be going dark!



You are a clever girl, I take my hat off to you



X



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 21:49

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Maybe in conjunction with the HBPG NOW is the time, I really feel the support will be there is it is advertsied enough. So much despondency



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 21:58

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Any takers, lets put our money where our mouths are



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
02/09/2010 22:17

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I meant you are 2 hours in front of us, it's me (I'm just a woman)



Will there be any takers? cyprusishome (my hero) where are you! your country men/women need you! to rally the TRNC troops!



4th October, Silent, Candlelit Vigil!



For all the TRNC Victims, there are many of us!



X



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 07:40

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TRNC victim - there is no such thing as 'just a woman' Pauline would never accept that.



We have the time, lets get this event organised and synchonised, it is brilliant. Do they have enough

candles in the TRNC - I will talk to some people here. Be back when I have some feedback.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 15:51

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Message 636 of 768 in Discussion

Listen my friends, we all have our problems, mine is the inability to obtain a PTP for our pre-74 TTD house.

Pauline has worse problems and deserves all our sympathy.

However, I don't myself think her case is cast iron enough to be a successful test case.

I would happily support a test case if it showed signs of being a success.

And to the post that suggested someone might knock my teeth out because of my comments I suggest you read my postings again, more carefully. And we don't need that sort of posting (threats) on here thank you.

It took me ages just to get a few simple questions about the Pauline case answered.

Geoff

Famagusta City



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 16:10

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Pollymarples if you are stuck for candles, I can send you some!



It would be good to support each other?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 16:32

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Geoff, just to remind us, what would be an example of a test case that you would support? If you tell us I'm sure we could find one for you.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 16:40

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Right ignore Geoff, if he thinks he had to work hard for answers, then he isnt asking the right

questions. It has been out their in the public domain since before the auction, frankly your sort of

support is not worth candle.





Talking of candles. ABAG, we intend to support you by holding a candlelight protest here on the 4th

October and if Pauline and I are standing alone outside the Turkish Embassy I will be surprised, but we will still be there. Will we have company????



Cyprusishome - where are you - we need you!!!



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 16:45

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1. House paid for in cash, NO MORTGAGE OR LOAN.

2. House registered in buyer's name.

3. PTP not issued due to builder/developer's actions.

4. Bank attempting re-possession due builder/developer defaulting on bank loan.



Or something similar.

Hope that answers Msg No. 638

Geoff



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 17:30

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Message 641 of 768 in Discussion

oh no geoff not again

what is the differance to what you have written above than to Pollymarples.



again surely the fact her partner was nearly run down a bla bla bla and dont tell me you havent understood that bit ! is even more serious than maybe youres or my position.

I would love to know why you seem to think that giving support either verbally on this forum or in any other way is the wrong thing to do.



surely this is a test case or maybe youre defintion of test case is differant to others Ive done many test cases and sometimes the ones you dont think can be won are the ones you can get the best result.



Polly there is tremendous support maybe not everyone aggrees with demonstrating etc but doesn mean they are not behind the scenes doing other things I can assure you



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 17:52

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Geoff, said he'd support a test case in which "1. House paid for in cash, NO MORTGAGE OR LOAN and 4. Bank attempting re-possession due builder/developer defaulting on bank loan."

I'd have to admit that you've got me there as in Pauline's case the builder put a mortgage on her house and so it fails No.1 test, although he did the default on the loan and so passes No.4 of your test.

You wouldn't be looking for a black cat which is coloured white would you?



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 18:14

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Pollymarples (Mess 639)



Fantastic News, wish I could meet Pauline, such a strong lady! (the only time I will be in the TRNC is when they Auction Amaranta Valley) perhaps we could meet then?







Cyprusishome I know your fed up, but we need you!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 18:32

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TRNC Victim - Pauline will be at EVERY auction God willing running around with her notebook and being

chased by the security police when she accidentally takes their photo, why not, they take enough photos

of her.



I think we all know Geoff is a little challenged, so be nice to him.



I will be hopefully meeting those of you who can make it to the Candelight vigil on the 4th Oct. Pauline

never goes anywhere without me.



natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:15

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Pleased my suggestion got you going. We will be there!!



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:34

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Letter in Cyprus Today August 28th



'My wife and I have had the threat of our home (not investment package) being auctioned off for the past 8 years. That is nearly a decade; approximately 3,285 days. Any one of which could have been the day of the auction. Can anyone imagine the burden of stress placed on our shoulders?







During this period we have hand delivered our entreaties to the appropriate ministers. We have sat down with them and explained our situation. All to no avail.







In the name of justice and human rights I hope this government will do something to help the people who bought properties years ago and are now facing up to the possibility being made homeless.



I implore any persons, irrelevant of race or creed, to fully support any poor souls who find themselves facing auctioneers. Do not make a bid that will only bring misery and homelessness.



Name & address supplied.'



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:58

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Natalie,



Yes sweetheart, it was a good suggestion! and yes it did get us going, and please be there! we will definately be in London, (and I will get to meet musin M)!



Pollymarples,



I will endeavor to be there if your homes are Auctioned, (but since my husband has died I have never set foot in the TRNC) the thought makes me shudder!



Hector,



What a terribly sad letter, how can this Government treat all victims with such comtempt? they have treated us like that as well for the last 7 years! they must understand we are human beings, who all made one fatal mistake, we gave them our life savings! It must end!



No Kochan, No Money



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 23:13

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Message 648 of 768 in Discussion

Sorry no time to read all the comments,but know quite a bit about this all from a lot of people involved. If it wasn';t so sad it would make the comedy of the year. When a certain lady writes her book I reckon it should be serialised in U.K - a sort of 'Last of the Summer Cyprus Wine' style. The Earless wonders, and the Rogue Builders, and the AKFarcical Bank and, and, and.......



Let's just hope the victims DO end up laughing and that justice is done and seen to be done. Nil desperandum! And any other approriate cliche.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 05:41

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TRNC vic tim If you dont make it to the auction, if it takes place, I will be there and so will Pauline.



Pauline had a very fetching picture taken of her chastising the first bidder at the Kulaksiz auction and

had some very effective 'words' with a potential bidder at the Tuteska Auction, there were no bids there.



You can be sure she will NOT stay silent at yours, God willing, it wont happen.





Here we go again. Silent Candlelit Vigil 4th October 2010



IF YOU CARE - BE THERE



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 15:26

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Pauline is a bit depressed, she had a reply from the TRNC BAR Seems the Kursat boys are members,

strange to get the e mail on a Saturday after 1.00, hope she doesnt have have to change her e mail

address!! One out four membership claims is true.; these are the professionals.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 16:21

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pollymarples (650)



Tell Pauline to cheer up! this could be good news, surely Baro will have to do something about a member of their highly esteemed organization, breaking into your home, and attempting to run Chris over!



I should send them a letter of complaint, detailing the facts



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 16:22

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Re 642: No, but maybe I am looking for a white cat coloured black.

Look, many of us have problems here with our properties, whether it be houses being illegally (generic term) auctioned off, refusal by the Authorities to issue PTPs on pre-74 Turkish Deeded properties, builders charging over the odds after sale, etc etc.

Many of us stand to lose 1000s and we seem to have no way out.

I'm 66, last thing I want is hassle.

So, we must keep a sense of humour, even if we live in hopes only to die in despair!

The advice/warning to all those contemplating purchase of land and/or property in the TRNC has got to be:

No Kocan, no money.

Otherwise walk away and buy in another country.

When I think of the support the British Expats gave to TRNC during the Anan Plan era etc it makes be very angry to be double crossed as many of us have been.

Geoff



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 17:09

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otherwise just walk away and buy in another country what with.!!!! Maybe we are not all as wealthy as you and even if I was I wouldnt be giving up . I certainly dont want hassle but will have more hassle if I have no home and especially by walking away are you really that serious to put such a statement.



your previous posts have at times caused amusement and in some cases frustration with the same questions you asked and asked which still didnt sink in but now I think that last post is just an insult to people the people who didnt want hassle who certainly havent the means and have a bit more of a pride.



Be a differant story if they did make a differance what would you say then. No dont answe it will probalby be What was it about again!!!!



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 17:24

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Go on, keep it up, Geoff - that big dentist's bill could be getting closer than you think!



kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 17:29

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Honestie - I think Geoff meant 'walk away' if the vendor will not accept 'no kocan, no money'.



keithcaley



Joined: 13/06/2008
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 17:34

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Jackie,

Calm down! - and actually read what Geoff wrote: -

"The advice/warning to all those contemplating purchase of land and/or property in the TRNC has got to be: No Kocan, no money. Otherwise walk away and buy in another country."

He wasn't referring to you, or to anyone else who has purchased - actually, in an earlier post he says "we all have our problems, mine is the inability to obtain a PTP for our pre-74 TTD house"

He also says "Many of us stand to lose 1000s and we seem to have no way out. I'm 66, last thing I want is hassle" & "When I think of the support the British Expats gave to TRNC during the Anan Plan era etc it makes be very angry to be double crossed as many of us have been"

What have you got against this man?

I know that it seemed to take forever to 'knock the information into his thick skull' but I do think that you're 'going off on one - just a bit'!

Try deep breathing exercises



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 17:36

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What are you gonna do Tenakoutou, stomp on Geoff's dentures?

He really is a numpty.



TRNC Victim, Pauline finds it strange to get a reply on a Saturday just after 1.00 which ends 'have a nice weekend.' from the Bar Council. None of the other replies have been anything but business like.

Do you think Pauline is too suspicious she thinks one of the 'boys' might have been in the office

it was sent from.



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 17:36

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Message 658 of 768 in Discussion

thank you kaiser phil



and if so apologies just that some of the previous posts have been a little what shall I say insensative and needs the whole srory repeating and repaeating only for the advise to be its not a strong case





Really must remember to take the tablets before I read and write on here!!!



kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 20:22

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Message 659 of 768 in Discussion

Then do have a glass of something to wash them down!



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 20:37

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Message 660 of 768 in Discussion

dont worry I will just a glass or two water of course not being one to drink that is! sorry going off thread now



TRNCvictim


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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 21:18

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pollymarples (mess 657)



Tell Pauline I agree the timing is very strange! and no she can never ever be too suspicious!



I have my monocle (cos I don't see very well) pinned to the ground!



honestie (mess 653)



I agree with Keithcaley, Geoff is trying to help in his own way!



Tenakoutou (mess 654)



Your a sweetheart, but all of us have dentures (or in my case crowns)! hope you will join any protest either in London (I would like to meet you) or in the TRNC?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 22:59

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Message 662 of 768 in Discussion

I think you are right, Geoff's comments were quite constructive.



Tenakoutou



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Message Posted:
04/09/2010 23:10

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TRNCvictim/Msg661:



Although I might be 'tongue in cheek' re Geoff's possibly imminent dentist bill - I just think he should have been more thoughtful and circumspect before 'committing to the keyboard'.



However, when so many people have lost as much as they have through this infernally lawless place, others [like Geoff!] should have the sensitivity to realise that these innocent victims are justifiably liable to get extremely 'shirty'.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 08:00

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Message 664 of 768 in Discussion

We all a little tetchy when we perceive criticism and who can blame us? However, here we still are on a

thread that is sooo important creating a record. Imagine if it did get in the Guiness Book of Records,

people would say 'well what is this subject all about' which in itself could be good publicity.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 09:24

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Message 665 of 768 in Discussion

the mortgage linked auctions are starting in the south now, see http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/09/05/homebuyers-throughout-cyprus-hit-by-mortgage-scandal/



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 09:25

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Message 666 of 768 in Discussion

Re 663 and other recent posts: Fair comment, and if anything I've said in earlier posts is seen as being insensitive I apologise unreservedly to anyone who took any offence. One or two posts have upset me a bit, we are all a bit jumpy (shirty as Tenakoutou calls it) in this current (TRNC property) situation.

Geoff

Famagusta City.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 09:43

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Message 667 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff,



I am sure that your appology will be well received by many .



Does thread " 666 ", have any further significance, that we need to be aware of?



wyn



Tenakoutou



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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 09:51

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Message 668 of 768 in Discussion

No worries, Geoff - 'water off a duck's back' as far as I'm concerned - just a pity you didn't mention your own predicament [same as mine] from the outset! Had you done so, I'm sure all, or most, of what many perceived as unwarranted criticism, could have been avoided.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 10:05

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Message 669 of 768 in Discussion

Wynyardman re thread 666 the devil is in the detail.



Pauline wrote that on the day of the auction see North Cyprus Free Press



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 12:33

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Message 670 of 768 in Discussion

geoff apoligies accepted . As I said I should take the tablets first!



At the end of the day if we are facing the same proble some worse than others we should be working together .



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 13:06

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Re 667: No, no further significance.

Re 668: I didn't mention my own case earlier as it is totally different to Pauline's, and not as serious (in that no one is trying to re-possess our home which we still occupy with no problems, other than the pre-74 TTD issue).

Geoff



Bradus


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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 13:53

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Message 672 of 768 in Discussion

But you would be in exactly the same position as Pauline, if your builder decides not to pay his bills and therefore memorandums are placed on your fully paid for property?



Geoff


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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 14:29

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Re 672: There is no builder, the property is not new having being built in 1922 by a TC and occupied by his family until we bought it from his daughter recently widowed.

Geoff



Bradus


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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 14:39

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Message 674 of 768 in Discussion

But the point remains the same Geoff, you don't own a property you have paid for and the vendors debts could become yours.



So unfair!



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 16:28

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Message 675 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff, whilst the deeds are not in your name you are vulnerable so you could put a charge on your own home, costs but

would give you peace of mind. You would be a creditor on your own home, but at least you can trust

yourself, and would make anyone else think twice about doing it.



Bradus


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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 16:33

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Message 676 of 768 in Discussion

Certainly worth considering.



Geoff


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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 16:45

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Message 677 of 768 in Discussion

Thanks Pollymarples and Bradus. We will consider this via our solicitor.

Geoff



expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
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Message Posted:
05/09/2010 18:11

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Message 678 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff; you say you don´t have a memorandum/mortage on your property?



To be blunt: you don´t KNOW that --unless you checked the register these last few days?



Remember; the K5-people lived for years, not knowing that someone had put a mortgage on their property.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
06/09/2010 07:38

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Message 679 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff expatlady is right. Any creditor of the person whose name is on your Kocan can get a court

memordandum put on your home even if you have registered your contract (have you?) without your

knowledge or consent. Horrible, but true.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
06/09/2010 08:29

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Thanks Pollymarples, I'll be checking all this out ASAP. I appreciate your help and advice.

Yes, the contract was correctly registered.

Geoff

Famagusta City



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
06/09/2010 10:44

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Message 681 of 768 in Discussion

Thats good Geoff because when you registered your Contract you would have been told if there was a mortgage (that is when Kulaksiz 5 found out about their mortgage which had been taken out 3 years

previously). If you put A CHARGE ON YOUR HOUSE you will be 1st and 2nd creditor assuming no one else

has registered anything in the time between your Contract registration and now.



I pray all is well for you Geoff.



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
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Message Posted:
06/09/2010 12:47

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Message 682 of 768 in Discussion

Pollymarples - do you know in which name the properties are now registered?



Geoff


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Message Posted:
06/09/2010 18:08

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Re 681: Thanks Pollymarples, you're one of the best, that's for sure!!!

Geoff

Famagusta City



honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
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Message Posted:
06/09/2010 18:20

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Message 684 of 768 in Discussion

geoff



whilst the registration of contracts in 2008 nstopped the banks mortgaging the legislation hasnt catered for and is a big loophole that if someone wins a courtcase for debt agains your vendor who still has the kocan than that judgement called amemorandum will be placed on his assest which is your Kocan.



Not saying this will happen and the solicitor wont even know when til the court case has been held and won so thats how vulnerable everyone is without Kocan unless you have the charge as Pollymarples suggets It costs mind you but may be better than loosing everything.



Your solicitor will know and should tell you what we have just advised



hope you get it sorted.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
06/09/2010 19:52

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Molly Pauline had a meeting with Akan Kursat on the 23rd July when he stated that Kulaksiz 5

had been registered in the name of Akfinans Bank and that they had paid the sum of 350,000 TL

transfer charges and taxes. When you consider that Land Registry is understaffed, that the time

involved was so short, that Akan Kursat is a born liar (witness fraudulent use of ISO9001, claimed

memberships of the English and Cyprus Bars which turned out to be untrue) Would you believe

anything that comes out of that man's mouth - Pauline doesn't.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
06/09/2010 21:09

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Message 686 of 768 in Discussion

Pollymarples (mess 685)



Pauline would be right to not believe anything that comes out of Akan Kursat's mouth or his fathers, indeed Daddy took most of Aga Victims money! did he know Gary Robb was a wanted criminal? well he professes to be a lawyer and member of the English Bar! "



Keep the Faith



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
07/09/2010 07:15

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Message 687 of 768 in Discussion

TRNC Victim I know someone with mutilple schlerosis who was a victim of double selling on AGA and TALAT KURSAT acted for both purchasers, one of the few finished properties, the other buyer moved in.

Kursat's excuse he was sooo busy he didnt notice. She didnt get her money back, she gave a statement

to the fraud squad, spent two hours with the fraud squad - what did they do, diddly squat.....

The house could well be one of the ones in the auction threat. Could be heads you loose, tails you loose



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
07/09/2010 08:21

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Message 688 of 768 in Discussion

This is so obviously a case of fraud that lawyers here should be ashamed of being part of the legal system IF it does not do something about it. Akfinans, by placing a mortgage on a contracted and paid for property, changed the sales agreement. They were negligent by not finding out or ignoring the existence of a sales agreement which stated that the sale was of an unencumbered property and they should suffer because of that negligence. Even though in law Akfinans had a right to mortgage the property, they were defrauding the buyers by doing so. If the law does not see this as a case of fraud then this is a very dangerous place to do business and potential buyers need to be told this.



In a more simple case, if you buy a tin of K5 sardines and find out that they have been contaminated by AKF canning company, if K5 is bankrupt I cannot see why you cannot sue AKF for the return of the money paid. If the contamination causes injury I doubt that ABC would escape having to compensate you.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
07/09/2010 08:41

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Message 689 of 768 in Discussion

Now folks, just when your think you have heard it all, a new scam appears. GARNISHEE,

lets see if we cannot nip this in the bud.



See this on North Cyprus Free Press later this morning. No wonder Kursat and Akfinans

hate Pauline so. Nothing is off limits as far as she is concerned.



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
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Message Posted:
07/09/2010 09:54

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Message 690 of 768 in Discussion

Message 685 Pollymarples



The reason I asked is because under TRNC banking rules, banks are not permitted to have property registered in their names!



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
07/09/2010 10:05

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Pollymarples (mess 687)



I also know someone who was double sold on an Aga site, they now have no property, and no money, the lawyer who represented both buyers was Akan Gurkan!



These so called Lawyers have an awful lot to answer for! where in all this fiasco was Baro? Oh I forgot "they have no duty of care"



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
07/09/2010 10:54

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Message 692 of 768 in Discussion

So it goes on - but remember NOTHING lasts forever



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
07/09/2010 11:24

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Message 693 of 768 in Discussion

apart from eternal damnation perhaps?



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
07/09/2010 11:26

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Message 694 of 768 in Discussion

Like it, appeals to a girl with my belief system.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
08/09/2010 07:12

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Message 695 of 768 in Discussion

The ABAG PROTEST TAKES PLACE ON 4TH OCTOBER 2010 outside the Turkish Embassy in London

where a letter containing a list of questions will be handed in, starting at 8.30 till 4.30.



A similar silent candlelit vigil will be held outside the Turkish Embassy in Lefkosa on the same day.

More details to follow.









IF YOU CARE - BE THERE



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
08/09/2010 16:07

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Message 696 of 768 in Discussion

pollymarples (mess 695)



Thank you for your support, just one small correction the time will be 10.30am - 4.30pm we are seeking an appointment with the consulate to hand our list of questions over, I will put the list on the board for everyone to see, and if anyone would like to add a question please feel free!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 06:27

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Message 697 of 768 in Discussion

Sorry TRNC VICTIM, Thought you all might like to get up a little earlier (joke).



EXCITING TIMES AHEAD ???????





PROTEST LONDON - TURKISH EMBASSY 10.30 am to 4.30 pm Monday 4th October 2010

If you are a member of ABAG be there

If you are a member Kulaksiz (UK based) be there

If you have any property related issues in theTRNC be there

If you hate injustice be there



IF YOU CARE - BE THERE



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 06:37

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Message 698 of 768 in Discussion

To everyone who has shown concern about some of Pauline's revelations, she has asked me to to

reassure you that EVERYTHING she has revealed is true and backed up with documentary proof.

cliffhanger has taken some stick , cliffhanger you have nothing to worry about, the powers that be

on Cyprus 44, you have n othing to worry about. Pauline has nothing to worry about.



YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK - for Gods sake not Akfinans Bank!!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 08:22

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Message 699 of 768 in Discussion

Talat Kurat Law Firm ARE involved in misrepresentation, WHO has put the WCS logo on the website, and what their intentions were, is not clear? However, a more recent misrepresentation by the firm leaves no doubt about WHO in the law firm is involved. The refusal to respond to the WCS awarding bodies' request for the unauthorised logo to be removed points to a deliberate act to continue the misrepresentation which falsely gives the impression that the law firm has successfully fulfilled the requirements needed to achieve ISO9001 certification. In the UK,for example, a lawyer firm called Vahib & Co was closed down for not protecting the interests of the beneficiaries of any trust of which they were trustee. This would have been one of the issues that the ISO9001 process would have checked. See http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/solicitor-check/2118.article



clifhanger


Joined: 06/09/2010
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 08:31

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Message 700 of 768 in Discussion

there are to many on here ppoint the finger say Mather is Aurthur and live in FEAR of mafia bully boy tactics by subscribing to this they give more power to the charlatans bully boys and those who continue to abuse power in trnc



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 10:40

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Message 701 of 768 in Discussion

You have nothing to fear but fear itself.



These bullies feed off your fear. Stop feeding the animals..



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 10:55

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Message 702 of 768 in Discussion

While those of us who just want to sell up and bugger off can't, we're a 'captive audience' the 'scam-mongers' - the No. 1 culprit being the TRNC government that continues to condone discrimination, racism, exploitation and fraud to be perpetuated against the expats and Turkish mainlanders.



Scared?



Too right, I am!



What scheming scam are they planning to levy against us next?



What's so sickening is that they can blithely continue all this with zero accountability. Excuse me, I need to puke.....



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 10:56

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Message 703 of 768 in Discussion

Well said cliffhanger, it really does hack Pauline off to know so many people live in fear of these

crass bullies. They make the Mafia look like a choral society.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 16:25

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Message 704 of 768 in Discussion

Scheming scams - look at garnishee - the next buzz word.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 16:42

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Message 705 of 768 in Discussion

like vampires they prefer to work in the dark and bringing their wrong doings to light does upset them. More garlic please!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 17:26

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Message 706 of 768 in Discussion

Ohh dont Malcolm the thought of arrogance on legs biting my neck is enough to put me off my tea





Now where is my cross and my stake??



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 21:52

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Message 707 of 768 in Discussion

What I find most annoying is that 'arrogance on legs' thinks he can replace one lie with another

and that we are all going to accept it. Well my duplicitious person, those days are well and truly over

they ended the day the car was driven at Chris - Friday the 3oth July, the day you pushed Pauline

just a little too far. Was it worth it? The villa is nothing compared to what you could have robbed her of.

Being you, even then you couldn't follow the due process of the law.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
09/09/2010 21:59

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Pollymarples (mess 706)



Don't worry about your cross & stake! think peaceful thoughts (very difficult I know) Think Candle's, Think silence! just for one day 4th October!



Although we all come from different places, our aim is the same "JUSTICE" for all!



IF YOU CARE BE THERE! PLEASE!! JUST FOR ONE DAY



IF YOU ARE IN THE UK OR IN THE TRNC "you have no excuse"



andrew4232



Joined: 04/07/2009
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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 02:06

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Message 709 of 768 in Discussion

yea gods this post should be closed by now other posts have bit the dust a long time before just how many times can these things be repeated



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 05:59

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Message 710 of 768 in Discussion

Andrew sweetie - now keep up....... the situation is changing daily, it was the WCS logo on the ISO9001

until YESTERDAY then it became NQA, now that is new, that is NOT repitition. Sorry if our problems

bore you, but there are an awful lot of other threads you can tune into, no one forces you on to this one.





Why is it so important to close down this one? Forgive me if I suspect your motives..........

Its all the sleuthing I do - makes me suspicious of comments like yours.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 07:39

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MONDAY 4th OCTOBER 2010 PROTEST OUTSIDE TURKISH EMBASSY

LONDON - 10.30 to 4.30pm





Watch for details of silent candlelit vigil same day in TRNC



If you have a property related problem you should be at one of these protest/vigil





IF YOU CARE - BE THERE



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 08:13

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Message 712 of 768 in Discussion

I think this thread should only be kept open if Kursat Law Firm had totally lied about holding a Quality Management Certification, in other words the NQA ISO9001 claim was unauthorised and they knew it. That would be lying wouldn't it, a deliberate attempt to deceive, especially if the reason for not being authorised was because you had failed the necessary checks. Now IF that turned out to be the case then msg 1 would be true. I hope for the law firm's sake that this doesn't turn out to be the case. What do you think PollyM?



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 08:15

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Message 713 of 768 in Discussion

oops, wrong thread! What on earth has Talat Kursat Law Firm got to do with the attempt to run down Pauline's partner, Chris?



andrew4232



Joined: 04/07/2009
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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 08:22

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Message 714 of 768 in Discussion

ah so its miss marples hehe its for no other reason apart from its getting too long to plough your way through all the time i was thinking a new thread would be easier to follow



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 08:41

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andrew, do what I've done, go to your profile and change the view option to most recent posts first



cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 08:46

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Message 716 of 768 in Discussion

I think this is a very interesting read, anyone thought of making it a hardback?



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 10:03

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cyprusjoker it's got everything Pauline - the heroine, Chris - the reluctant hero

Akfinans Bank who want to throw our hero AND heroine out into the snow (writers licence)

the evil Advocate (aka arrogance on legs) who wants to kill off our hero Chris and leave Pauline

broken hearted. Our evil Advocate who was also a director of AGA Development alongside Gary Robb,

fugitiive and alleged drug dealer. We only need Superman to come in on the act then Pauline could double as Lois Lane (sorry Chris I 'm only after his Kryptonite to protect you with). Add to this a cast of thousands

of cheated and abused ex pats. Best seller in the making. Angelina could play Pauline in the film version

she's got the lip(s) .



Seriously, Pauline does intend to write a book if the new chapters ever stop coming in - the title

You Couldn't Make It Up



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 10:59

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As far as I can see no-on has questioned the legality of the TRNC only the integrity and honesty of some

of its citizens.



The government has been elected by the people so it makes TRNC a democratic and legal country.



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
10/09/2010 23:03

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pollymarples (mess 718)



It might be a legal and democratic country, but the integrity and honesty of not only it's citizens,(including the citizens given Kimlet cards) but it's legal profession, and it's Government is very questionable!



The problem with writing a book as I see it, is there doesn't seem to be any ending? happy or otherwise!



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
11/09/2010 07:01

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SILENT CANDLELIT VIGIL AT TURKISH EMBASSY ON MONDAY 4TH OCTOBER 2010





VENUE TURKISH EMBASSY LEFKOSA





MORE DETAILS TO FOLLOW





IF YOU HAVE ANY PROPERTY ISSUE THIS IS FOR YOU - IF YOU Care - be there



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
11/09/2010 12:07

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7 e mails confirm, TALAT KURSAT WAS certified ISO9001 FOR A WHILE NEVER BY WCS.



Registered then deregistered by NQA in JAN 2008 - Now how could you 'forget' you were

deregistered and why would you carry a logo of a body who you were never registered with

after deregistration?? Silly question.



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
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Message Posted:
11/09/2010 16:21

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Message 722 of 768 in Discussion

Re "The Book" - who would buy it? we already know what will be in it. Because we all have the same problems, or very similar. If we all wrote a book about KKTC property issues all the books would be identical. Anyway, good luck with the book project, will the proceeds be donated to the HBPG?

Geoff



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
11/09/2010 16:21

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SEVEN yes 7 e mails now available to read on North Cyprus Free Press



TRNCvictim


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Message Posted:
12/09/2010 00:19

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Message 724 of 768 in Discussion

Geoff (mess 722)



You may be very acquainted with what would be in a book about the TRNC, but there are hundreds upon hundreds of future victims, who need to know, before they part with one penny of their life savings!



No Kochan No Money



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
12/09/2010 02:21

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Geoff, Far from it, the book will not be a woe is me tome - it will carry some of the trauma

but it will also chronicle the many journeys overland to and from here and the spontaneous adventures

often hilarious. No-one wants to read doom and gloom, especially people like you who have lived

through this. Including journeys from the north and south cyprus to the u.k. we have made 12 trips.



I want people to laugh, not cry when they read it. I pray God will grant me the time and strength

to complete it. No I will not give the money to HBPG.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
13/09/2010 06:32

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Message 726 of 768 in Discussion

Even Pauline thinks this thread should be closed - typing on it is like ploughing through treacle.

A Guiness Book of Records, record would be nice, but looks like it is fizzling out anyway



Geoff


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Message Posted:
13/09/2010 07:34

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Re 725: Thanks for clarifying those points , and I do hope you didn't mind me asking.

I WILL be buying a copy of the book when it is out.

I hope BTW that the result of the Turkisk referendum will benefit all of us with property issues here,

Geoff

Famgusta City



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
13/09/2010 07:51

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Message 728 of 768 in Discussion

Not at all Geoff - I hope all your problems get resolved too. No-one needs this at our stage in life.



God Bless You



malsancak


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Message Posted:
13/09/2010 09:09

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Message 729 of 768 in Discussion

why close it when, if it is too unwieldy, it will just fade away from non use?



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
13/09/2010 09:34

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malsancak/Msg 729: 'it will just fade away from non use?'



It may go 'off topic' as different situations for the victims of Kulaksiz 5 occur.



I believe that forum members who care about this government condoned fraud, which in his speech at the auction, Mr. Rauf Denktash warned the assembled Brits of another 1400 imminent cases, should keep this thread 'alive' - 'Lest We Forget' - because we don't know when it might happen to us.



Let's face it, none of us know the in's and out's of any of these banks' nefarious dealings - but the mindset of the current government that openly demonstrates [to the world!] that it condones 'legalised fraud' is abundantly clear.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
13/09/2010 09:56

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Message 731 of 768 in Discussion



Attend the Candlelit Vigil here or the Protest in London on the 4th October OR not - that is the question?





Details. as usual on North Cyprus Free Press - yes it is related - not necessary if everyone was straight and honest



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
14/09/2010 05:55

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Message 732 of 768 in Discussion

Candlelit Vigil 4th Oct.



Requirements:



1. You

2. Candle - long one

3. Matches or lighter

4. Tolerance

5. Bottles of water (1 to drink - 1 for emergencies)





IF YOU CARE BE THERE



nareik


Joined: 26/01/2009
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Message Posted:
14/09/2010 13:31

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Message 733 of 768 in Discussion

13500 views and 732 posts - Akfinans Bank certainly is being kept to the forefront for all the wrong reasons. I don't subscribe to the notion that all publicity is good publicity. Keep up the effort - good will prevail over evil eventually!



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
14/09/2010 15:37

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Message 734 of 768 in Discussion

nareik. Witness what Akfinans tried to do to me to 'shut me up' It didn't work and I go into my villa

whenever I feel like it. We Brits are a tough old lot, the more you push us, the more we push back.



I am sure that there are a lot of Turkish Ctypriot victims who react in exactly the same way.





Together we can win - there is strength in unity.



nareik


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Message Posted:
15/09/2010 13:39

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Message 735 of 768 in Discussion

Polly,



is Embargoed (the TC Human Rights Group based in London) involved/active in the 4th October protest?



Nareik.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
19/09/2010 12:41

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Message 736 of 768 in Discussion

nareik/Msg 735:



Don't you think there might be a slight, but only slight, 'conflict of interests' there?



Since the protest is [allegedly] aimed at exposing the lawlessness and government condoned fraud being [allegedly] perpetrated in TRNC, surely, joining forces with ABAG at any protest might do 'Embargoed' more harm than good!



'Embargoed' are trying to win the 'sympathy vote' - 4th October doesn't sound like the ideal date to pursue such an objective!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
19/09/2010 13:00

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Message 737 of 768 in Discussion

nothing on the Embargoed! website about the candlelit vigil



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
20/09/2010 07:20

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Message 738 of 768 in Discussion

There is also the argument that by turning a blind eye to these injustices EMBARGOED could be accused

of being hypocritical and I know they are NOT. They have been made aware of the situtation and are

sympathetic to our plight.



They know that they cannot ignore the fact that our most basic Human Rights ARE being not only

violated and then trod into the dirt.



KARMA



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
20/09/2010 08:39

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Message 739 of 768 in Discussion

It seems fairly obvious that any 'ABAG or 'Embargoed!' demonstration would be counter productive to each other.



'Embargoed!' seems to be a lost cause until the TRNC government enacts ethical leglislation, and can be seen by the rest of the world to be doing so.



I fear, however, that the 'Powers that Be' have already consolidated their wealth and are now 'dug in for the long haul', totally unconcerned that they are leaving [by legal allowance] the very real potential for the biggest property scam in Mediterranean history to be perpetrated.



Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
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Message Posted:
20/09/2010 09:49

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Message 740 of 768 in Discussion

As requested I have arranged for the thread to be re opened.





Harold



Harold2555



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Message Posted:
23/09/2010 20:37

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Message 741 of 768 in Discussion

Bump to the first page



Tenakoutou



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Message Posted:
23/09/2010 20:50

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Message 742 of 768 in Discussion

Gawd, Harold, aren't there enough 'speed bumps' to knock a bloke's [sump] plug in, already?!



Harold2555



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Message Posted:
23/09/2010 20:55

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Message 743 of 768 in Discussion

Not that sort of Bump TK now back on topic!



H



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
23/09/2010 21:14

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Message 744 of 768 in Discussion

Thank you Harold.



malsancak


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Message Posted:
24/09/2010 08:33

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Message 745 of 768 in Discussion

This thread is about a break in and an attempt to run Pauline Read's partner down during the getaway. The police refused to investigate because prominent GCs were involved. By contrast, Geoff & Mary Day were put in jail (Mary for 2 days and Geoff for 4) on the basis of a false accusation of theft by their GC builder in an attempt to blackmail them into paying for work not completed. After 29 months the case is still going on at great expense to the Days without any prospect of them being compensated for that expense when they are not found guilty.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
24/09/2010 09:30

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malsancak/Msg 745: 'The police refused to investigate because prominent GCs were involved.'



Since the 'Powers That Be' decide who gets what sort of job, and where - be it in the civil service, or police, this comes as no surprise, as they are hardly likely to 'bite the hand that feeds them'.



In Cyprus, North & South, 'Banana Republic' rules 'rule'!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
24/09/2010 09:47

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Message 747 of 768 in Discussion

Tenakoutou, as you say, that's the way it is here, but it is important that visitors, would be immigrants and investors should be regularly warned about the potential dangers here. That is until the government effectively changes their policies in these areas.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
24/09/2010 10:57

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Message 748 of 768 in Discussion

Police have statements which are now going before a judge dont hold your breath prob ably end up as little squares in the judges chambers



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
24/09/2010 21:27

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Message 749 of 768 in Discussion

pollymarples/Msg 748: '...little squares in the judges chambers.'



Sounds like cronyism will be at work again - what a surprise!



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
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Message Posted:
24/09/2010 22:16

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Message 750 of 768 in Discussion

Tenakoutou (mess 749)



Help dispel cronyism join pollymarples in candle lite outside the Turkish Embassy on 4th October 2010 from 5.00pm - 8.00pm and maybe we will surprise ourselves!



Pollymarples (mess 748)



My breath is baited



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
26/09/2010 11:50

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Message 751 of 768 in Discussion

Come on everyone - they've taken just about everything but our pride - lets show them enough is enough



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
26/09/2010 21:13

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If you do come tenakoutou please dont wear your facemask, it's a bit scarey.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
27/09/2010 09:30

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Message 753 of 768 in Discussion

One candle for each property at risk, they'll see that from space!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
27/09/2010 15:41

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Message 754 of 768 in Discussion

Anyone heard about eviction writs which have supposed to have just been issued? Not sure if it's Kulaksiz 5 or not.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
30/09/2010 09:42

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Message 755 of 768 in Discussion

It is now confirmed that the Kulaksiz 5 are being issued eviction orders and charged £600pm while they stay in the rickety houses they paid to have built. So they have taken Akfinans Bank and the TRNC, I guess, to the European Court of Human Rights

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/09/30/akfinans-bank-limited-human-rights-violation-taken-to-echr/



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
30/09/2010 11:09

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Message 756 of 768 in Discussion

Ye 2 writs so far obviously the rest will follow. Pauline didn't have the luxury of a writ, they just took her villa by to even entere force, and their gang the police will arrest her if she tries to enter her garden.



£600 per month rental for houses in terrible state and on Builders electricity



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
30/10/2010 06:46

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Message 757 of 768 in Discussion

Guess what, the police have concluded their investigations, Kursat says he wasn't there, the car wasn't

driven at Chris so I guess the locks must have changed themselves. How do I know, the police have never had the courtesy to tell us even though they have both telephone numbers. No, I read it in an interview

given by Kursat to Yeniduzen newspaper.



Obviously a man who lies about memberships of the English Bar, Rep. of Cyprus Bar and right to display

ISO9001certificate, fellow shareholder with Gary Robb in Aga is far more credible than 3 old fart expat

pensioners. What were we thinking about wasting the police's time like that.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
30/10/2010 09:13

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Message 758 of 768 in Discussion

MUSTN'T GIVE THEM IDEAS, THEY'LL BE CHARGING US WITH THAT NEXT.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
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Message Posted:
30/10/2010 11:37

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Message 759 of 768 in Discussion

Msg 758:



Whoops - be careful, 'pollymarples' - you don't want to antagonise them - even unintentionally!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
30/10/2010 11:48

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Message 760 of 768 in Discussion

Oh, I think we all know that the locks were changed and that was a crime, so the above was a light hearted

jest. It was the attack on Chris they really decided didn't happen, despite a witness. We old fuddy duddies

we obviously have funny turns.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
30/10/2010 14:55

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Message 761 of 768 in Discussion

THE OTHER THREAD NOW CLOSED. The proposal for a peaceful silent candlelit vigil cannot go ahead

at present, will jeopardise other actions. Will contact those I whave discussed it with personally.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
30/10/2010 15:04

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Message 762 of 768 in Discussion

sounds like these peaceful, silent candlelit vigils are dangerous things. Thank goodness you discovered that before you had one. Turkey's TRNC Ambassador even supported it.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
30/10/2010 15:36

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Message 763 of 768 in Discussion

Wrong end of the stick Malcolm, but not for discussion here, ON HOLD can always go back to it if let down

again.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
30/10/2010 16:41

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Message 764 of 768 in Discussion

aaaah, mushrooms!



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
30/10/2010 17:28

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Message 765 of 768 in Discussion

Yes I think.



pollymarples


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Message Posted:
31/10/2010 06:53

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Message 766 of 768 in Discussion

Pauline has had time now to consult with allies and the general consensus is that the 11th would be an

inappropriate date and I agree, I let my enthusiasm run away with my good sense.



An altrnative date has been suggested but someone much wiser than me and I will let you know in due course.



Can I ask you to consult with your Turkish Cypriot friends and ask if any of them will join us? The more

Turkish Cypriot suppor twe can get, the better.



pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
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Message Posted:
31/10/2010 07:23

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Message 767 of 768 in Discussion

A little feed back folks - let's guage support from all people living in the TRNC. I am talking about the

everday Joe, like you and me who cares what happens in their name in their country.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
31/10/2010 08:10

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Message 768 of 768 in Discussion

pollymarples, support for what and by whom? Is there going to be a silent, peaceful, candlelit vigiL and will it be for everyone or just TCs and their spokesperson?



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