Help, I really am totally confused, Re. Entertainers

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 17:52

Can someone please explain to me the logics, It sounds to me from reading the posts, that if you live here legally, with your residency you cannot get a temporary permit (or similar)



Yet if you live here and don't do it correctly, then you are OK.



Ie. keep leaving TRNC and just get 90 days,



Ever since we have lived here we have completed our annual trips, and all the aggro that goes with it to be legal.



Everyone who does it knows that its a bit of a drag.



We have never supported the South, We have to go back to the UK 1 week in every 3 months, So we could have genuinely got around the Residency.



But we chose to do it,



But if I am reading this correctly, would we have been better living here but saying we didn,t ?



Also several entertainers, just come here for a season with nothing, just bum their way around, and if they get picked up and put back on a plane tomorrow, they have lost nothing, infact they have probably gained a free flight home.

scruffdog


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 742

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:08

Lee I do not think you are put on a plane, but a ferry. I know of one person who has flouted the law and got away with it. It is not fair and should be frowned upon. Keep legal the way you are and you can sleep at night. We have residency because we are here most of the time.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:12

Lee, I don't think the three month ins and outs is legal these days if you haven't got your annual temporary residence. The Petches were deported last year or late 2008 and they'd done exactly the same.

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:38

Lee ! to be a temporary resident as you are is the legal way and route you have chosen and to be a a visitor on a visa issued by the government border control is equally as legal otherwise they would not issue it. Some have ,as you and Jan, have decided to stay in TRNC and some like me are not sure and are issued with a visa 90 days or less. Unfortunately the TRNC have different laws for the 2 different situations and as I have been led to believe it is possible to perform as a visitor at present without a work permit but on a temp "gider pusulasi" which is issued by the inland revenue dept to make sure the appropriate taxes are paid on any earnings ! Sruffdog refers to one person "flouting" the law and got away with it but is obviously sickeningly biased and doesnt realise that even regular "karaoke" performers and impersinators including the "excellent" FM have all performed over the years "flouting" the so called very confusing law. It is obviously safest to attatch yourself to a

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:43

Continued ..... Charity and to donate earnings to thus said charity which I am sure is what happens. I am continually shocked as to the divide in the expat community here getting at one another and trying to knock eachother and trying to beat the other down that it is not surprising that I am still unsure whether to stay in TRNC after all this attitude towards comrades was why I left the UK in the first place.but i shall continue to do what I feel is best for me and mrs Snakes who is the most important reason for me being !! I hope you and Jan are well and applaud your terrific efforts for "Ismail" kind regards Barry

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:45

Barry, to live her permanently you need to get a temporary residency. That involves blood tests, TB tests and muhtars letters. Even living here permanently the government still classes you as "temporary" for a long time - 10 years. The ins and outs, going to the South or elsewhere is a visitor's classification. Not a temporary residency.

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:47

What/who is FM ?

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:54

Anthony I am totally aware of the facts thank you ! We have done our homework like the rest here but do not rely on the comments on Cyprus44 and research our own information ! I was just trying to point out that we should not be critisised for being on a "legal" visa at present and if was not "legal" would not be issued. I do not like people telling me I should be a resident temporary or otherwise when we havent made up our mind to stay yet ! it is true we have bought a very expensive house here and therefore contributed to the economy but everything we have done is our decision and no one elses ! I am astounded that some people being connected to a charity consider themselves an authority on the legalities and morals here especially as i was asked to perform for a certain charity and told not to worry they would give me a "back Hander" for my efforts ! more double standards from these expert law abiding godly creatures . regards Barry

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:57

I have no links to any charity. I'm just trying to state the facts. Yes, it is your choice, but go carefully.

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 18:59

Thank you Anthony I was not referring to you and I will be careful but as you know we are told one thing one day and another the next ! cheers Barry

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 19:12

Cyprusjoker FM is Scruffdogs lovechild ! Lee !!!! speaking to a minister for the interior yesterday they stated that regular performances for charity ie once a week is in their words "suspicious" and will be checked ! be careful as they say to me regards barry

john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
Posts: 176

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 19:12

double standards from these expert law abiding godly creatures on cyprus 44 my my what would Stephen day & Tom roach say.

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 19:13

John so sorry lost me which aint ard ha ha !!!

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 19:28

Thank you for your input, Its a sorry situation, I can see all sides of this, But I agree with Barry, we have also ploughed an awful lot of money into our villa and land here, and our moneys are invested here.



We are already giving a lot of revenue to TRNC.



I do not want to work , I did not come here for that. I would actually hate the thought that I was going out to work several nights per week.



But i do enjoy doing the occasional function. In the last 12 months I have worked for various good causes and Charity, and of course ismail.



But it would be good to think I could maybe just earn say 150 tl per week ( LIke Part time work)



I would gladly pay 25 % tax.



Barry we are fine thank you, hope you are both well, Once again thank you to yourself and Helena for all your hard work with the Pia Bella Function for Ismail.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 20:32

Visitors visa is only good if you dont have assets in your name in TRNC.By law if you have your own place,you are required to get temporary residency.

Everything else is 's**t talk'.

Personaly I dont understand the fuss over this as you can easily open your own bar and perform there.That way if I want to listen to 'snakes' play I'll go his bar,if ................ then I'll go there.

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 20:39

Yorgo.....do you think that your "simple" solution should also apply in London or the UK in general.



Should all non-UK citizens be made to open their own Bars before being allowed to perform?



I really do worry about the TRNC.

Things have got so bad they can't even be bothered with the fake hospitality any more.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 20:46

cronos;

London is London,this is TRNC in case not noticed.I do not make these rules,I just try to work around them like I also used to in UK. ie."debts are going down,buy something instead of giving it to taxman."

cronos


Joined: 26/10/2008
Posts: 2093

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 20:52

Yorgo....I asked whether you thought it was fair,but as usual I get a convoluted answer along the lines of " this is the TRNC....you are a guest in our country....when in Rome etc...."



The TRNC really needs to wake up and consider its attitude to foreigners.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 21:11

I believe Yorgozlu is absolutely right in what he says regarding residency.



If you own your property, as you do, 'Snakes', if I were you I would be inclined to take his advice seriously.



Unless you are actually leaving the island, and that includes the South, and not going over to Turkey for a coupla three days, in order to qualify for your next 90 day visa, I hate to say it, but one day you're going to met the wrong immigration official who is going to give you problems. As things stand, and many others have experienced, a temporary visitor's visa [in terms of how many days you are permitted to stay] is entirely dependant on the discetion of the immigration official you encounter on the day.



Far better, because you have bought 'immovable property' in TRNC, is for you to apply for the annual 'temporary residents visa'.



You state that 'gider pulusasi' will render you immune from police prosecution - my advice is: don't count on it!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 21:17

Cont'd:



As admirable as everyone considers your charity gigs to be, the police may not have the same mind set, so please bear this in mind.



B*gger me, I hate giving a good guy like yourself the abovementioned advice - BUT THIS IS TRNC!



I lived 25 years in the South, and it was exactly the same rules there before they [regrettably!] joined EU.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 21:41

Apologies for the 'typos' in the above two messages - 'discretion' and 'meet'.



Yeah, no, yeah, no, yeah - I should have checked my text before zapping the 'Post Reply' button - but, heh, what the heck!

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
21/08/2010 22:59

Good post Tenakoutou

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 00:32

Im more confused than ever, Yorg if you only rent here can you still get temporary residency, or has it got to be vistors visa every ninety days. No wonder the entertainers are having a hard time.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 07:13

cronos;

re msg 16

>>"Yorgo.....do you think that your "simple" solution should also apply in London or the UK in general.







Should all non-UK citizens be made to open their own Bars before being allowed to perform? "<<



my answer for the first line is "YES" and "NO" for second line as UK is not just UK any longer but part of EU,never mind the brittish citizens it had gained through colony days.To sum up my comments..........too little too late.



HOWEVER,my comments at msg 15 are just an advice through knowing 'whats what',if you guys are still going to insist on 'shooting the messenger'.............bring'em on.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 07:17

msg 25 cont.



>>"Yorgo....I asked whether you thought it was fair,but as usual I get a convoluted answer along the lines of " this is the TRNC....you are a guest in our country....when in Rome etc...." <<



Where do you think I got to learn 'HOW TO BEAT THE SYSTEM'?They stink because they dont suit US.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 09:09

msg 23 - if you live here full-time you have to get temporary residency, renting or buying.

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 09:13

"Fancy eating out tonight dear" ? "Yes" Ok i'll just go and buy a restaurant !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MrsSnakes



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 1100

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 09:15

Msg 26, if you neither pay rent nor own a property but live here, do you had to have TR?

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 09:30

MrsSnakes, as far as I have been informed the answer to your question is that you will require TR if you are in the country for more than 183 days in a given period of 1 year although the subject seems to have a different answer almost every time you ask.



I have lived in the country and am renting for over 1 year now and do not have temporary residency, in fact by the legalities of NC I can't have one even if I wanted because you have to be in the country for more than 183 days per calender year.

Here is the kicker, a friend has a very similar situation and as per standard laws can not have residency but has in fact had to apply and get residency so that his wife may get residency.

What I suppose I am trying to get at is that yourself and Barry are doing the right thing by finding out from the authorities, not by asking on the forum as it is all hearsay and rumours or even if accurate, probably out of date, hell I am not even sure about my situation anymore.



Paul

Chicken


Joined: 29/06/2009
Posts: 190

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 10:09

As BRS members, we asked the question about Temporary Residency and were told that we could only stay in TRNC 180 days in any calendar year. We too were doing the "ins and outs" and hoping our visa was stamped with 90 days (which we know isn't a foregone conclusion anyway). Six weeks ago we were stopped by the police on one of their roadside checks, vehicle documentation was in order except they told us we should not be driving on a UK driving license. To get a TRNC license you first have to have TR! Just in case they took a note of our car reg number for future checks, we decided to start the process of temporary residency, cheaper than a fine, (for those who don't want the trouble of doing it themselves, the sisters at the driving school near the police station in Girne will do all the legwork for you for a fee). We were also given to understand that if you own your own car your insurance is null and void after 90 days unless you have your TR. Confusing I know.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 10:29

Msg 28, I don't know that one but can find out. I'm quoting the law, as in the Official Gazette on renters and home-buyers. Yorgozlo has it right.

To get a work permit or residency permit you have to have blood and TB tests, in the case of residency, get a muhtar's letter, and in both cases go to the police station.

People have been deported for living here without the necessary qualifications - and they've lost everything.

It's not a great situation, but such things occur in the UK for non-EU or non-Commonwealth citizens. The rub here is that the UK treats all Cypriots with a Cypriot (not just TRNC passport) equally. Yet, here we are, technically outside the EU and without a leg to stand on.

All I know is that there is a real desire in government to crackdown and get the money in at the moment. I don't know how far they will go. If you are caught living or working illegally you have to pay a percentage of the min wage for every day and cannot come back - even to visit.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 10:30

I think you will find with the car insurance it is that it is null and void if you have TR but have not gained a TRNC licence after 90 days.

You kind of said it in your own post, to get a TRNC licence, you must have Temporary Residency, If you don't have TR then you can only drive on your British/European licence. Not really sure what the policemen were telling you but then again, the rules seem to have a different interpretation each week or so.



By the way, for those who want to tell the story differently, I am only going by the information obtained from a car showroom owner and the desk policeman at Girne police station when paying a speeding fine but then again it was 2 weeks ago.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 10:55

msg 32;

Stop going by what you are TOLD,read the rules/regulations yourself and be your own judge.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 11:03

With regards to the entertainment situation, there is a very simple solution, at very little cost to the goverment,



When the bar or Restaurant apply for their music licence, why not simply have a 2nd document



Stating who is appearing, and what date, how much they are being paid, and simply stop 25% at source.



Then the Bar could deduct that from the entertainer,



iE. Most people charge approx 150 to 200 TL.



Most of us do it for our own pleasure, but you do need a certain amount of income for your equipment, and running costs etc.



The goverment could even set the amount paid, if they are worried about us earning to much, They could allow us say 2 nights per week, at max of 200TL per gig, that would be 100 TL. tax and 300 TLfor the enteratiner.



Lets face it you can virtually live on 300 Tl per week.

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2919

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 11:06

yorg, as it would be the policeman I would be answering to, I think what he tells me is a little more important than my interpretation of the law, I will do things my way and if it back fires on me then I will be the only one to blame.



I agree with you to a point but then if you are being your own judge you have to hope that when you are caught breaking the law that you missunderstood the law to, you have an understanding judge handing out the punishment.



Sorry, I have ended up miles away from the original post, got a bit carried away.

I suppose in essence, I will go and ask whoever I believe to be an authoritative figure for the answers and yorg will go and read the correct document and interpret it hopefully correctly, 1 big difference is that yorg can read Turkish, I can't so I would always be relying on a translator, my fault on the language skills admittedly but I can only do my best.

I am not overly concerned as I believe that I am all above board and legal.

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 11:17

I think this as already been said but why not an Entertainment agency acts can register with them pay a fee and taxes.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 11:40

Because Topten, the suggestion is that some of the entertainers aren't here legally. That's what the government has been pushing at.

It's a great idea, but the basics - as far as the government is concerned - aren't being fulfilled.

Simhar


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 227

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 12:00

I don't understand why this is so complicated....



If you "live" in the TRNC for more than 180 days a year you must have TR.



If you own or rent property in the TRNC and are on the island for more than 180 days a year you need TR



If you own/rent a car for more than 90 days in the TRNC or if you live on the island for more than 180 days a year you need a TRNC driving licence.



If you do not have a TRNC driving license the rest of your documentation (tax and insurance) is invalid.



If you work (take any money for reward) you need a work permit



If you take a wage you need to pay tax and national insurance



If you decide to not abide by these laws then you risk getting caught and punished, your choice.



Simple isn't it?



Then comes the complicated bit:



If you perform an act for charity are you working?



If you are an entertainer and wish to share your brand of entertainment across different venues there is no mechanism to do this, why not?



cont.....

Simhar


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 227

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 12:04

cont....



Over the years too many people have tried and succeeded at evading tax and residency issues. The government wants to crack down on that, understandable. It's just that they are not very good at working out and implementing policies that achieve that!



Working and living in the UK or anywhere else for that matter without following the rules is breaking the law, why should it be any different here. This is an illegal country from the rest of the worlds viewpoint but not from the TRNC governments viewpoint. Play the game and take the consequences if caught!

zerochlor


Joined: 03/04/2009
Posts: 4024

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 12:10

message 34 JL, it has already been suggested what your saying,but it has been put to the correct people who are the law makers. We shall see if they take notice



zerochlor







Joined: 03/04/2009

Posts: 2550



Message Posted:

18/08/2010 14:40

Reply Message 48 of 112 in Discussion



wouldnt it be nice and easy if the bar or place a musician is playing at could have the tax stopped at source,so the bar would take the tax directly from the performers wage that night or day and give to the goverment.







Surely the tax office could sort that out easily enough,some special fatura book made for all bars and restaurants for performers,taxed at source.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 12:54

I think, but will no doubt be corrected, that Anna the singer, when she was here, either started up her own company or was going to, with a view to all entertainers being employed under the one company with the company employing the individual entertainers on work permits. However and I am sure someone will again correct me, the government dont either want or allow work permits being issued for UK entertainers just as when I went to get my work permit for a business I had to go to the top man at the employment office as he didnt want to give a female a work permit for myself for my own bar! After a lot of discussion and standing my ground I got it !



I think as we all know, the laws are there and even when its all done correctly you can still be caught out as we know, by just going over the border! I even got my passport stamped with only so many days when I had a work permit in it!

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 14:06

Zero Dave that is what the book "gider Pusulasi" is !!! it is a document that has the events information to be filled in ie: performers name, passport number, amount paid etc and deductions by venue 16% and a further 10% by the artist. the 10% is payable monthly by producing the "gider pusulasi" receipts from all venues in that month to the inland revenue office ! regards Barry

snakes



Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1512

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 14:09

Honestie ! yes you are correct in what you heard re Anna, the problem with Anna's idea was that she owned a "pool cleaning company" not an entertainment company !!!!!!!!!!!!!! and yes i agree todays laws are not neccessarily tomorrows but we keep talking to them on a daily basis regards Barry

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 15:05

Barry doesnt it also depend on what the company has been set up fo.I know you can have a company set up that can cover several busines,s . I appreciate a pool cleaning company would not cover entertainers but a company set up for eg to have bar restaurant tourism etc could that then employ entertainers with the company getting the work permit and the you pay your own sigorta and tax. Im sure you are going to tell me there is a reason why not but would seem simple for the ones who are working frequently.



regards honestie

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 16:02

http://www.northcypruz.com

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 16:36

We have acompany set up. we have owned it 4 years. Memorandums of Article are in Turkish, But so I was told I could do virtually anything with this Company.



But the cost involved to run it outweigh the benefits,



I would just like to be able to work once or twice a week, a litle bit of jam on the cake, and to cover expenses.



I think a lot of the entertainers here feel the same.

kezspot


Joined: 26/11/2007
Posts: 443

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 18:43

After being an entertainer in the TRNC for 5 yrs, and owning a company, trying to do everything legal. It is not possible. The government want too much tax, and as you know, winter is difficult time for all. You end up paying out more than you earn. There is no way around it at the moment, thats why we gave up and left the TRNC. I do hope the Government wake up and solve the issue, but this kind of 'permit scare' isn't the first time it has accured over my time in the TRNC.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 19:37

Kezspot, you wern't just an entertainer, you where the best, and soooooooo lovley, much better to look at than me or Big T.xx

scruff


Joined: 15/07/2008
Posts: 1070

Message Posted:
22/08/2010 19:40

Last sentence. msg 47.



I think it's actually the third time it has happened since early 2002 when we arrived.

Same issue with crossing the green line & bringing certain products back. These things come up again & then they die down or at least they have in the past.

The law doesn't change but the enforcement dies down & stops.........until the next time.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
23/08/2010 01:13

i some how think the are serious this time, not just entertainers any one they can, look at the other posts, mud flaps, licence plates. BIG BROTHER is watching. The sad thing is they change the law without telling us who want to be law abiding x