God did NOT create the Universe,

john_good


Joined: 15/08/2010
Posts: 176

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 13:29

God did NOT create the Universe, says Stephen Hawking.



The universe was not created by God, scientist Stephen Hawking has said in his new book.



Professor Hawking believes the laws of physics were behind the Big Bang instead, in a challenge to traditional religious beliefs.



In The Grand Design, extracts of which were printed today, Prof Hawking concludes: 'Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.



'Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.



'It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.'



The book, co-written by American physicist Leonard Mlodinow and published on September 9, sets out to contest Sir Isaac Newton's belief that the universe must have been designed by God as it could not have created out of chaos.



He cites the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting a star other than our Sun.





Read more

Rocker



Joined: 24/09/2008
Posts: 384

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 13:52

I rather trust the Bible than Hawkins, thats my opionion

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:03

I would sooner believe Hawkins than the bible. So what is this god thing?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:06

Rocker: Which bible? And any idea when the bible was composed? At the time you could make people believe in ghosts, witches and god.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:07

I look at things on the balance of probability, that being, that its more probable that Hawkings' theory is far more likely than the belief that someone or some entity created the whole thing from scratch!



I'm not saying that there isn't an 'enity' or 'entities' as I'm sure there are many many things in the universe that we know nothing about and never will, but to me the theory that a single 'God' created everything is even less likely than the belief than we are (or have been) visited in the past by intelligent beings from other worlds. After all, it has been estimated that in our galaxy alone there could be as many as 100 BILLION 'earth like' planets capable of sustaining life. Its a numbers game.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:08

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7891132.stm

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:32

Someone once said that they believed everything that Jesus wrote but this apparently only consisted of writing once in sand and even then the message evidently wasn't worth putting in the Bible! As for some thing/force/whatsit in the Universe controlling the (G)enerating, (O)perating and (D)estroying bit, I've got no problem with that.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:39

Everyone believes in something - If it brings peace of mind, why not believe in God?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:43

RE msg 8, Washerman: (...) If it brings peace of mind, why not believe in God? (...)

=> Because this so called god didn't and doesn't bring peace in the world.

bookworm


Joined: 10/07/2010
Posts: 340

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:49

I thought the crusaders fought in the name of god...

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:50

If he doesn't exist, how can he bring peace? Believing in God, doesn't necessarily mean that he exists.

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:57

Some Crusaders do not need any name nor reason to start a fight so I guess however the world evolved or became populated it will always be a crap place for those who become victims. I have no need to know how it all started but like most people I could be curious to know when it might end. Will press post reply in case I am about to be struck down..............ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 14:57

You either have Your Faith or not , eithers ok.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 15:04

RE msg 10, bookworm: (...) I thought the crusaders fought in the name of god... (...)

=> Yes, you're right. But, what is your point?!

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 15:11

Some say he's Michael Schmacher

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 15:15

People who have no power to control their lives believe in God. It is not their fault. But believeing the bible is a tad too naive considering how much the church used it to rob people. It wasn't that long ago when they sold keys to heaven for the rich. Were the people who burnt Giordano Bruno for believing that the earth was not centre of the universe not holding their bible whilst they were burning him? And did the same very people not re-write the bible quite a few times. I don't mean to be horrible but it is unbelieveable that there are people on this earth at this age who actually believe the bible. They need some help.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 15:21

YFred and what do you hold onto whilst you are doing something you shouldn't?

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2918

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 15:31

Its like pooring petrol on a flame for some people, really

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 15:41

Washerman, first of all I never do something I shouldn't what ever that may mean and don't need to hold anything my good lady is exceptionally good with that. Thanks for your concern.

Washerman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 2301

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 15:42

I'm talking about beliefs, I don't know what your talking about?

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 17:13

If there was, sorry, is a god, then why does it not do something about the TRNC government, lawyers, estate agents, builders...........etc. If it did something then I will convert!

proger1



Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 2918

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 17:26

Yes, that would be the first thing on the list, then move onto floods, hurricanes, famines those old doosies should definately be behind the TRNC problems obviously

cypgab


Joined: 09/01/2010
Posts: 338

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 17:38

God didn't make man. Man made God.



It's a truism.

Lambousa Gordon


Joined: 03/11/2007
Posts: 1992

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 17:48

Atheism is as ultimately unprovable as spiritual religions. The notion that the Universe "just is" is equally ludicrous... or possibly more so as the case may be.



After all, what came first: gravity or its absence? Hawkin's hypothesis presumes that the "laws" of physics - particularly his specialty of gravity - just happened to emerge out of pure oblivion. But if there was no matter or energy then what caused the big bang that resulted in all that matter and energy and gravity and the other laws? Everything may "now" be seen to depend on these laws (or not - we've a long way to go) but what happened "before" they came into/gave rise to existence and started time? What engendered these laws that supposedly define our universe and its infinite parallels? The Atheist's best answer so far is: nothing. Which is actually even more ridiculous an answer than an avuncular hirsute old bloke called Yahweh or somesuch.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 21:06

Atheism is a non prophet organisation.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 21:14

I used to be an atheist until I discovered I was God!

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 21:16

I just don't believe anyone that says they're an atheist!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 21:24

Another interesting theory that someone created the universe.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7972538/Are-we-living-in-a-designer-universe.html

measey


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 1037

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 21:25

Quarmby.now your being selfish he trys to help everyone .

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 22:08

OK God did not create the universe - but God did create the big bang.



It's a chicken and egg thing...

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 22:13

How do the theorists assume it was a Big Bang? It may have been just a little Bang!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 22:25

God did NOT create the universe?



He did create Stephen Hawkins though.



wyn

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 22:42

Wyn. Do you have the proof? )

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 22:48

Depending on ones definition of what a 'bang' is, something/one certainly did go bang and if it wasn't the earth moving for you, what was it?!



Richard

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/09/2010 22:51

No1 Doyen



Do I need it.?



Did not God created Adam and Eve and we are offsprings thereafter The Bible tells you so?



Can you prove that he didnt?



wyn

Pippie


Joined: 02/12/2009
Posts: 1288

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 00:46

My thoughts for the day:



God is in the heart of every human being, including the 'non-believers'. He must be otherwise the non-believers wouldn't feel they needed to argue so much that he didn't exist!!



And, do you believe in the devil, yet you cannot see or touch him? so why do you not accept that there is a God, whom you also cannot see or touch. Everything was created with an opposite in it's pair - night and day, black and white, man and woman, clockwise and anticlockwise, etc. etc. If you believe that there is Satan and evil then the opposite has to be God and his promise of paradise in the afterlife. Surely this is a much nicer prospect than spending the rest of eternity burning and screaming in pain.

Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 00:52

Re message 15..or Valentino Rossi.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 00:55

pippie nice. I beleive in my god. I think we have seen some many devils in the form of evil in our own life time. Saddam springs to mind. Scientists will always argue the point and i watched a film called Zeitgeist, which dispells a lot of what we beleive even down to 9/11. Its our own minds, heart and souls which tells us what to beleive. I want to think that my family members who have gone are in heaven.It helps me come to terms with it x

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:06

i am a true atheist , I swear to god............

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:12

Humans at a young age are programmed with faith to protect themselves against danger. A 2 year old can't work out the dangers of walking out into a busy road, but faith in mum or dad saying "No Stop!" prevents their death, its self preservation big time. Religion replicates this, it also encourages childhood beliefs similar to Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Jack Frost, the Sandman. It introduces a big parent, God, and all his mysteries, Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost, Mother Mary, the Saints. In the real world, good people do good things, bad people do bad things, in religion, good people do bad things because their faith in a big parent, this is what religion does, it turns intelligent adults back to their childhood faith. God, as interpretated by his messengers, priests, has told them this is so. Blind faith is the ultimate suspensiopn of disbelief! If you want to be a good person, reject faith, think of being a good person without to be told to be by a big parent called God. Grow up

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:23

Lem my darling very profound. I will take that on board and try to be a good person. You Ok x

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:30

why do christians wear crosses around their necks , if you want a second coming do you really think he wants to see another cross..???? like remembering 9/11 by wearing an airplane pendant....

Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:31

Didn't man create god?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:32

hiya apc, we wear it to remind us of the suffering for us, just as the Americans wear the badge to remember 9/11

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:33

Hi Lilli.



I'm fine. I saw through the God Delusion years ago, I try to be good, but everytime I meet a goodlooking



woman, I forget it and get all wicked again. Oh well. You only live once, xxx

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:36

Well Lem if thats your take on it then I would say you are bloody good. LOL xx

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:38

lilli , saddam was only "evil" because the media fed you that crap, they are many more "evil" people in the world that go un reported that you never know about , bin laden was an american allie against the russians (good guy) now ......after 9/11 bad guy ...

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 01:42

Lem, message 40.



Very well said. The voice of reason. Paul is a total and absolute atheist; however, I have never met a 'more Christian atheist' (if you know what I mean). He would never do anyone a bad turn and goes out of his way to help others. He always looks for the good in anyone he meets. He is truly 'a nice person'. Unlike myself, who is not. It's not whether you believe/do not believe in a 'God' is how you treat the rest of mankind.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 07:36

In the words of the late great Marty Feldman...



"You wait till you get up there, he'll smash your bloody face in"

Geoff1131MK11


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 08:37

I dont know if there is a God or not. I dont know if he created the world. I dont know if it was the ' Big Bang '



But if it was the ' Big Bang ' then what was here before the bang?



And if God created the world, what was here before he created it? And where did God come from????



Too many questions, just enjoy life, and as Lem says just be good!!!!!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 08:56

Geoff1131mk11 Msg50.



As I was taught...



1 God is love and light.



2 Waves of potentiality



3 Spirit (thought) darkness.



Sounded good to me at the time, I have no reason to think otherwise now, and I do enjoy life.



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 09:04

Geoff1131mk11.



If still in doubt, Google in Victor Zammit



You can get his book A lawyer Presents the case for the Afterlife......FREE



Damned good read.



A lawyer giving something away free? There must be a God!



wyn

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 948

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 14:01

having breakfast, and reading this thread, I say I know who put the food on my table, likewise look up into the sky and see all those stars in the universe and ask yourself surely only God could do that

Or (the Unbelievers' state) is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with billow topped by billow, topped by (dark) clouds: depths of darkness, one above another: if a man stretches out his hands, he can hardly see it! for any to whom Allah giveth not light, there is no light!"



To the believers

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 18:30

Spot on Bashir.



wyn

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 18:57

Wyn.Message 35. Errrr...No! ) )

kheme


Joined: 30/01/2010
Posts: 41

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 20:57

well, my only question to those who say there's no God is this...



i've sat to think of the complication in the human respiratory system, for example, or the circulatory system, reproductive system, the configuration of the human cell, plant cells, gravity, molecules, atoms, electrons... look at the order in all this things and you have to agree, some thought was given to all this, some serious thoughts, i might add... the gills in fish, binocular vision, why the nose is not on top our heads (we'd drown in a rainfall), how the ear, nose and throat are connected (i recently had a nose operation and wondered... if i couldn't breath with my mouth, i'd probably be dead? cos i couldn't breath with my nose for 3days!!!), hairs on our skin help regular body temperature, how sweat cools the body when it evaporates, how the stomach digests food to generate energy needed to keep the body running, how blood absorbs oxygen, and the list goes on and on and on.



cont'd...

kheme


Joined: 30/01/2010
Posts: 41

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:00

well to me, i just don't see how ALL this could occur RANDOMLY and from nothing? i doesn't add up to me. someone or something had to have planned this... down to every detail.



this is my 2cents

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 21:02

DutchCrusader you posted:



"Which bible? And any idea when the bible was composed? At the time you could make people believe in ghosts, witches and god."



Given your stated views about non TRNC threads you are being something of a hypocrit here.

Chelpet


Joined: 10/03/2010
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 22:30

I personally believe the universe is far too great for the simple minds of humans including Hawkins to comprehend, the sheer vastness of the universe, we here on our small insignificant planet have not even scratched the surface, how can anyone work out light years, and can anyone really believe, that the people on this planet will be able travel those vast distances in the forseeable future, to discover whats out there, I think lets sort out the problems on this world first, and there is some hope of that, I think not.

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
03/09/2010 22:51

Education rather than indoctrination is a wonderful thing. More here should have access to it. ('degrees' in tourism and business management will not alone contribute to a successful economy)